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#408174 - 01/09/10 05:25 PM Large Hadron Collider (LHC)
XUL Offline


Registered: 12/12/09
Posts: 238
Loc: Oslo, Norway
I am in awe of this machine! It is beyond all comparison the most advanced piece of engineering ever built by the human race. In the LHC, "packets" of protons that have been accellerated to >99.99999% of the velocity of light - and then been charged and charged again until they are at a level of over 7000 times their resting state mass - are smashed together in head on collisions to simulate the conditions of space one millionth of a second after "the big bang". And... just to put it into perspective: A uranium atom is only 235 times the mass of one proton...

This machine is the sexiest thing EVER...



Edited by XUL (01/09/10 05:32 PM)
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#408176 - 01/09/10 05:32 PM Re: Large Hadron Collider (LHC) [Re: XUL]
reprobate Offline

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Registered: 06/05/02
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Even after all this time of seeing it in the news, I STILL misread this as "Large Hardon Collider".

Swinging hardons at high velocity and smacking them into each other....
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#408178 - 01/09/10 05:37 PM Re: Large Hadron Collider (LHC) [Re: reprobate]
XUL Offline


Registered: 12/12/09
Posts: 238
Loc: Oslo, Norway
Originally Posted By: reprobate
"Large Hardon Collider"


I watched a speech by Richard Dawkins where he said he had mistyped it such as that for his book (I don't remember which one) but he hoped that the correction reader wouldn't spot it. However, she did... and his plea to leave it like that wasn't heard.

But I suppose "7000 times the resting mass" would be a wee bit too much of a large hardon for most of us anyway.
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#408184 - 01/09/10 06:34 PM Re: Large Hadron Collider (LHC) [Re: XUL]
ArtAche86 Offline


Registered: 10/24/08
Posts: 380
Loc: Cthulhu's Bowels,Kentucky
Originally Posted By: XUL
Originally Posted By: reprobate
"Large Hardon Collider"



But I suppose "7000 times the resting mass" would be a wee bit too much of a large hardon for most of us anyway.


I suppose that would be quite true!Very interesting video none the less.
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#408185 - 01/09/10 06:35 PM Re: Large Hadron Collider (LHC) [Re: XUL]
Maupassant's Offline


Registered: 01/08/10
Posts: 35
It will supposedly take the guys at CERN at least two years to start getting some practical test results, but I really hope that this thing is worth it's price (dubbed the "most expensive science experiment ever").

What's more important, the LHC can greatly increase human knowledge about how the Universe works... which may simply mean abuse of power.

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#408195 - 01/09/10 07:21 PM Re: Large Hadron Collider (LHC) [Re: Maupassant's]
XUL Offline


Registered: 12/12/09
Posts: 238
Loc: Oslo, Norway
Originally Posted By: Maupassant's
the LHC can greatly increase human knowledge about how the Universe works... which may simply mean abuse of power.


You are of course correct.

All power has the potential for being abused. However, I find it hard to see any direct correlation between top level theoretical physics being confirmed by even more top level experiments, and the kind of political manipulation which consequences can be experienced by the publc at large.

But of course, common sense never stops a good conspiracy theorist! It is quite interesting to observe all the crazy "2012+LHC" ideas that are floating around in the rudimentary monkey minds of superstitious people. If you have nothing better to do one fine Sunday morning, you can hop a little here and there on YouTube and witness the zoo of crazy people who think the world will end at any given moment...
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#408201 - 01/09/10 08:17 PM Re: Large Hadron Collider (LHC) [Re: XUL]
XUL Offline


Registered: 12/12/09
Posts: 238
Loc: Oslo, Norway
OK, I'm gonna add this explanation to some more of the details about what they are actually trying to do in the LHC. I guess I should add that I am not a "standard model" man myself; I am more into M-theory (which is an elaboration on the superstring model) - but I may of course be wrong (most scientists are considering M-theory unproveable and therefore not really "science" per se), but this is still a very good lecture on the subject:

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#408238 - 01/10/10 12:41 AM Re: Large Hadron Collider (LHC) [Re: reprobate]
Old_Pig Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3969
Loc: The Deep South
Science...


Attachments
hardon_collider.jpg


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#408248 - 01/10/10 03:25 AM Re: Large Hadron Collider (LHC) [Re: XUL]
Maupassant's Offline


Registered: 01/08/10
Posts: 35
Originally Posted By: XUL
All power has the potential for being abused. However, I find it hard to see any direct correlation between top level theoretical physics being confirmed by even more top level experiments, and the kind of political manipulation which consequences can be experienced by the publc at large.


True, but what if the LHC completely changes the top level physics theory? The whole idea behind this accelerator is to give men a lot of new knowledge.
Sure, this may not mean political abuse - that is if course if LHC won't lead to any weapon's development, but what about environment (Universe) abuse?

Originally Posted By: XUL
But of course, common sense never stops a good conspiracy theorist! It is quite interesting to observe all the crazy "2012+LHC" ideas that are floating around in the rudimentary monkey minds of superstitious people. If you have nothing better to do one fine Sunday morning, you can hop a little here and there on YouTube and witness the zoo of crazy people who think the world will end at any given moment...


Yeah, I was surprised when after the release of "2012" there was an incereased surge of people to the church, because they thought that the end-of-the-world really was coming. But, what can you expect...

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#408279 - 01/10/10 10:11 AM Re: Large Hadron Collider (LHC) [Re: Old_Pig]
XUL Offline


Registered: 12/12/09
Posts: 238
Loc: Oslo, Norway
Originally Posted By: Old_Pig
Science...


Okie dokie...

THIS is the Large Hardon Collider, as far as I'm concerned.

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#408334 - 01/11/10 12:08 AM Re: Large Hadron Collider (LHC) [Re: XUL]
Zaranell Offline


Registered: 03/01/09
Posts: 56
Loc: Arizona, USA
Ahem. If I may contribute this little tidbit:

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#416781 - 03/24/10 09:57 AM Re: Large Hadron Collider (LHC) [Re: XUL]
MagdaGraham Offline
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#416784 - 03/24/10 10:06 AM Re: Large Hadron Collider (LHC) [Re: MagdaGraham]
XUL Offline


Registered: 12/12/09
Posts: 238
Loc: Oslo, Norway
OOOoooh... more sexiness.

I was having a very pleasing discussion with my girlfriend about this just the other day (before it all collapsed into... well, nevermind); where The Higgs Field was presumed to be a sort of the basic matrix of the universe, and "dark matter" is a gravitational tug from the parts of the field that doesn't interact with matter as we know it. I am absolutely fascinated by the field of tension between the standard model of physics and the standard model of cosmology. Now if they can only produce a Higgs Boson, then everything unites into a higher state of order...
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#417711 - 04/03/10 11:42 PM Re: Large Hadron Collider (LHC) [Re: XUL]
Wormwood536 Offline


Registered: 02/05/10
Posts: 17
Loc: Florida
I understand the LHC has the potential to help open up areas of science we didn't even know existed, but when looking at recreating the Big Bang, one thing concerns me. Remember that the Big Bang was a universe sized explosion. Even if the recreation was only a fraction that sized, couldn't it still be pretty disastrous? I mean, I'm no physicist, but when we split the atom the result was Hiroshima. Now we're taking parts of atoms and ramming them together at near light speed? That just sounds like a recipe for bad.
It's strange, as much as I stand in awe of this thing, I'm also terrified by it...almost like it's a god.
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#417747 - 04/04/10 08:46 AM Re: Large Hadron Collider (LHC) [Re: Wormwood536]
DamienMocata Offline
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Registered: 10/14/09
Posts: 217
Loc: Linenopolis
Quote:
but when we split the atom the result was Hiroshima


Nope, when we first split the atom, it was 1917. It wasn't until people discovered the possibility of Nuclear Chain Reactions (where Atoms produce the right components to continue the Nuclear Fission, or splitting), back in 1933, that it was even thought about as being a fuel source.

A Nuclear Bomb only explodes because it is a chain reaction that is set up to run on until a critical point. And the mass inside that bomb contains well over billions of atoms. It's when the many many many atoms all splitting that you get the explosion.

Now, in the LHC, atoms are collided together using intense Electromagnetic fields which accelerate them to near light speed. It takes an awful lot of energy to accelerate anything to near light speed. (In fact, it takes a nearly infinite amount of energy to get to light speed, but that's another story).

Once those accelerated atoms collide, the majority of the energy is lost. It's that energy loss that gives us the particles that we're looking for. So unless someone's got a way of shrinking all the accelerators into a bomb shaped device, there's no chance of an explosion.

And if you're worried about it becoming a massive implosion (i.e. a black hole) then that's not going to happen either.

The energy used at the LHC is too low to produce a black hole, according to the Standard Model of particle physics. Extensions to that model predict that micro black holes may form. But micro black holes will vanish because all black holes release Hawking Radiation and micro holes can't absorb enough energy to keep themselves stable.

The LHC is awe inspiring, yes. But it's not something to be terrified of. Like any other tool of humanity, it's how it's used that matters.

(and hopefully this post makes sense, as I was going to throw numbers in and then decided that might not help)
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#417801 - 04/04/10 10:50 PM Re: Large Hadron Collider (LHC) [Re: DamienMocata]
S810 Offline


Registered: 02/11/06
Posts: 326
Loc: northwest
It's easy to be afraid of those things that we don't understand at first. But it is also an err in judgement on our part not to search for the reality of any given situation.

I always find it a bit laughable when I hear things like, 'Ir'll kill us all'. The ones who say these types of things usually have a very narrow view of the actual topic in question.

I highly doubt that if it was a danger, the top physicists in the world would be saying otherwise, much less even be able to get the funding for such an experiment.

Very well said DamienMocata, I'm not on top of physics like I'd like to be, but this post was much like reading 'A Brief History of Time'. Very understandable to the laymen.
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#417803 - 04/05/10 01:14 AM Re: Large Hadron Collider (LHC) [Re: DamienMocata]
Wormwood536 Offline


Registered: 02/05/10
Posts: 17
Loc: Florida
Actually it was very nicely put. And like I said I'm no expert, so thanks for putting it all into a perspective I can understand.


Edited by Wormwood536 (04/05/10 01:27 AM)
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#418300 - 04/10/10 03:15 PM Re: Large Hadron Collider (LHC) [Re: DamienMocata]
XUL Offline


Registered: 12/12/09
Posts: 238
Loc: Oslo, Norway
Originally Posted By: DamienMocata

Now, in the LHC, atoms are collided together using intense Electromagnetic fields which accelerate them to near light speed. It takes an awful lot of energy to accelerate anything to near light speed. (In fact, it takes a nearly infinite amount of energy to get to light speed, but that's another story).


I am intrigued by the Higgs field, as a framework for the standard model (although I admit that I'm personally rather quite lost in the somewhat metaphysical speculations about superstrings and M-theory).

The LHC is, in my eyes, as was probably indicated by the tone of the OP, a sex-machine par excellance and although they have had some setbacks with the project (which is what you'd expect with this level of technology) I think it will produce some interesting results in the years to come.



Edited by XUL (04/10/10 04:11 PM)
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#418301 - 04/10/10 03:34 PM Re: Large Hadron Collider (LHC) [Re: XUL]
XUL Offline


Registered: 12/12/09
Posts: 238
Loc: Oslo, Norway
OK, I'll throw this one in as well, as it is a pretty good description of how the standard particle model, through the Higgs field, unites with the standard cosmological model in order to produce a coherent physical image of the entire known (or knowable) universe:



Edited by XUL (04/10/10 03:49 PM)
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#418302 - 04/10/10 04:10 PM Re: Large Hadron Collider (LHC) [Re: XUL]
XUL Offline


Registered: 12/12/09
Posts: 238
Loc: Oslo, Norway
Part 2:

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#427440 - 07/25/10 03:14 PM Re: Large Hadron Collider (LHC) [Re: XUL]
Spelled Moon Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/25/08
Posts: 1691
Vanishing dimensions

The LHC could reveal "spectacular evidence" of one spatial dimension vanishing as the machine approaches the high-energy conditions seen soon after the Big Bang, says Landsberg. If his ideas are correct, then the LHC will soon start to access a two-dimensional universe. "Collision debris that you would expect to spray out in three dimensions, will instead be confined to a two-dimensional plane," he says.


Large Hadron Collider gets yet more exotic 'to-do' list

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#427446 - 07/25/10 04:40 PM Re: Large Hadron Collider (LHC) [Re: DamienMocata]
Hatred_Incarnate Offline


Registered: 03/26/09
Posts: 124
I personally think it's ridiculous to consider that humans could ever create a legitimate full size black hole. (I do however believe that we can create micro black holes that only lasts fractions of a second.) When our sun dies, an object that is fueled by nuclear fusion at its core, that has been going on for roughly 5 BILLION years and will go strong for roughly another 5 BILLION years, even it isn't powerful enough to create a black hole, much less mere mortals. It takes a star at least 20 times the mass of our sun to create a black hole when it dies in a supernova explosion. In a few days of this type of explosion the dying star puts out more energy then the sun will put out in its entire approximate 10 BILLION year lifetime.

To read more on this subject feel free to go here

I'm kind of a huge space nerd grin


Edited by Hatred_Incarnate (07/25/10 04:44 PM)
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#432119 - 09/15/10 02:56 PM Re: Large Hadron Collider (LHC) [Re: Hatred_Incarnate]
XUL Offline


Registered: 12/12/09
Posts: 238
Loc: Oslo, Norway
Originally Posted By: Hatred_Incarnate
I do however believe that we can create micro black holes that only lasts fractions of a second.


See now, that's what I find fascinating. The LHC is like the most ultimate, upgraded version that exists of the old boys' game of picking things apart to find out how they work. The nerd in me finds it exciting to think that minuscle black holes can possibly be created and the processes that led up to that point may be extrapolated to space-at-large. I recently had an interesting exchange of words with somebody about this issue - and we agreed (after much bruhaha) on the notion that the sum total of energy and mass in all of the known universe equals zero.
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