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#409009 - 01/16/10 11:06 PM The Haiti Earthquake and Natural Disasters.
J. Favenris Offline



Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 152
Loc: Portland, Oregon
How do you feel about this earthquake? Do you feel sympathetic towards its victims, or enjoy that it's nature's form of decreasing the human population? Any opinion is welcomed.

I personally am not the type of person to be very charitable for strangers but I was shocked at the statistics of the event and contributed to the aid. The company that I work for matched my donation ($20) and all others given by team members. The Red Cross estimates that the death toll is around 50,000 while the Haitian government is now giving reports of about 200,000 (including those affected by the after effects).

This isn't really meant to start a political discussion, but rather your personal opinion to this and other natural disasters. I imagine that many people here will be apathetic towards the suffering but I might be proven wrong...
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"Training is nothing! The will is everything! The will to act." - Ra's al Ghul

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#409011 - 01/16/10 11:19 PM Re: The Haiti Earthquake and Natural Disasters. [Re: J. Favenris]
Diwanna Offline


Registered: 01/19/09
Posts: 128
Loc: Upland
My feelings are best summed up by a Bertrand Russell quote,

"Three passions, simple but overwhelmingly strong, have governed my life:the longing for love, the search for knowledge, and the unbearable pity for the suffering of mankind."
_________________________
The Absence of God will bring you comfort. - Jenny Lewis

There is a point in which empirical evidence outweighs your faith. It is then when you must chose to open your eyes, or close them. - Diwanna

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#409012 - 01/16/10 11:28 PM Re: The Haiti Earthquake and Natural Disasters. [Re: J. Favenris]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8262
Who cares?

That "country" has been receiving money and aid for decades - has their situation ever improved?

No.

Charity is such a waste of money, time and effort. Haiti's history proves it.

Great indebtedness does not make men grateful, but vengeful; and if a little charity is not forgotten, it turns into a gnawing worm.

Friedrich Nietzsche




_________________________
"Consensus is the absence of leadership." Margaret Thatcher

"I'm fascinated with how primitive the human mind still is. It can be misdirected so easily." John Gaughan


"Success is uncommon. Therefore, not to be enjoyed by the common man." Cal Stoll

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#409013 - 01/16/10 11:28 PM Re: The Haiti Earthquake and Natural Disasters. [Re: Diwanna]
LordofDarkness Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 756
Loc: Tennessee, U.S.
Well... I'd have to say that I care and don't care.

I care that so many people died who may not have deserved to die, but I don't care about it because if the same thing happened to me, most if not all of them wouldn't give a shit.

I assume that makes sense...
_________________________

"Any group or collective, large or small, is only a number of individuals. A group can have no rights other than the rights of its individual members." - Ayn Rand

"Laws are there for a reason. You may not agree with them but you gotta obey them. Nobody wants to be in court." - Sonic the Hedgehog

"Satanism is not a white light religion; it is a religion of the flesh, the mundane, the carnal - all of which are ruled by Satan, the personification of the Left Hand Path." - Magus LaVey

"Test Everything, Believe Nothing." -

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#409014 - 01/16/10 11:31 PM Re: The Haiti Earthquake and Natural Disasters. [Re: LordofDarkness]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
38% of the population of Haiti is 14 years of age or less. That's thousands of kids dead, thousands more who are now homeless, because of poverty. Whatever the country's problems, they are the ones who suffer and who are going to inherit it.


Edited by reprobate (01/16/10 11:32 PM)
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reprobate

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#409016 - 01/16/10 11:46 PM Re: The Haiti Earthquake and Natural Disasters. [Re: J. Favenris]
Original Sly Offline


Registered: 09/10/09
Posts: 205
Loc: New Zealand
I found the news reports quite interesting in an objective sense.

Putting aside any sympathy I may have for the victims of this disaster, I found it quite interesting that looters started looting APPLIANCE stores as well as supermarkets. One would think looting the essentials, such as food, water, and perhaps supplies for shelter, would be imperative. But APPLIANCE stores? There's no frickin' electricity for that television you just stole!

I turned to my partner when I read that and said, "They're also making roadblocks from corpses. I give it a couple of days before everyone starts fighting each other and violence breaks out."

The next day there are groups of young men roving through the city weilding machetes.

And new reports of aid having to be turned away because violence has broken out when groups of men have pushed through the lines of women and children to get to that aid first. I can't say how honourable I'd be if I was starving, but trampling women and children underfoot and weilding machetes? Hmmm. I don't know.

But then, I've never been in their situation. I've never lived in a slum or shanty town wallowing in my own filth, just to have my few meagre possessions turned to rubble in an earthquake.

A government that is now non-existent, groups of weapon weilding people turned feral beasts, and the weak and hungry not getting the help they need... I want to say I feel some kind of sadness, but I just feel nothing.

If this happened in one of the more populated countries where people live in such close proximity to their food source that swine or bird flu eventuates, I'd be pleased. Culling the herd and all without ever lifting a finger.

Still... with a child of my own, I don't like to see a child in need.
_________________________
"It stands to reason that where there's sacrifice, there's someone collecting sacrificial offerings" - Ellsworth Toohey, Ayn Rand's The Fountainhead p.637

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#409017 - 01/16/10 11:46 PM Re: The Haiti Earthquake and Natural Disasters. [Re: LordofDarkness]
J. Favenris Offline



Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 152
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Originally Posted By: LordOfDarkness
Well... I'd have to say that I care and don't care.

I care that so many people died who may not have deserved to die, but I don't care about it because if the same thing happened to me, most if not all of them wouldn't give a shit.

I assume that makes sense...

It absolutely makes a lot of sense! That's pretty much the way I look at human suffering, that people don't really care for one another and when they do, they're usually just being charitable to fuel their good-guy badges. The reason why I decided to donate was because I ignored other people's perspectives (both humanitarian and misanthropic), took an honest look at myself and asked:

"Although not many people will know that I gave a small contribution and the people who are being helped will never know my name, do I want to help them out?"

And I did, and by giving those $20 I felt like I was doing a very Satanic thing.

Originally Posted By: reprobate
38% of the population of Haiti is 14 years of age or less. That's thousands of kids dead, thousands more who are now homeless, because of poverty. Whatever the country's problems, they are the ones who suffer and who are going to inherit it.

I feel sick in my stomach... How awful.

Originally Posted By: Phineas
Great indebtedness does not make men grateful, but vengeful; and if a little charity is not forgotten, it turns into a gnawing worm.

Friedrich Nietzsche

That's why I'm not a person who is often charitable. I only contribute when I desire to do so, because we're not obligated to help one another. Psychic vampires are quickly cut off by me.


Edited by Favenris (01/16/10 11:52 PM)
Edit Reason: Another reply.
_________________________
"Training is nothing! The will is everything! The will to act." - Ra's al Ghul

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#409018 - 01/17/10 12:04 AM Re: The Haiti Earthquake and Natural Disasters. [Re: J. Favenris]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8262
And I did, and by giving those $20 I felt like I was doing a very Satanic thing.

Do those who give have any assurances that the money given, in any amount, is going to the right place, the right people, and cause what they expect? Can they say with certainty it will not be misused or stolen or go to the wrong people? Always something to consider.

If a Satanist decides to part with his or her money, they do so because they want to. Because it pleases them.

Good for you for understanding this as your motivation.

Satanists do not delude themselves with such silly notions as "we are making a difference, or "this shows I care", or "I want to change the world" etc.

They proceed with eyes wide open, regarding the reality of their act, which may be called "controlled folly" (Thank you Rev. Daark wink ) And, above all, do not pin a good guy badge on their chest and run around saying "Look at me! I care! I made a difference!."

A Satanist knows better.

_________________________
"Consensus is the absence of leadership." Margaret Thatcher

"I'm fascinated with how primitive the human mind still is. It can be misdirected so easily." John Gaughan


"Success is uncommon. Therefore, not to be enjoyed by the common man." Cal Stoll

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#409020 - 01/17/10 12:15 AM Re: The Haiti Earthquake and Natural Disasters. [Re: Phineas]
J. Favenris Offline



Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 152
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Apart from this message forum and to the Red Cross personnel to who I handed the money, I haven't mentioned to a single person about my donation. I mentioned it here because it is relevant to the topic and not to parade as some sort of saint.

What I did was Satanic because "each [Satanist] must decide for himself what his obligations are to his respective friends, family, and community." Obviously I'm not going to give my entire paycheck because that would deprive myself and I feel that would be giving too much. But I gave what I decided for myself should be enough, and I didn't do it with anybody pushing me or guilting me into doing it.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to be a 100% sure that the money will be going to the right place, but I didn't act stupidly and give it to just whoever. Doctors Without Borders and the American Red Cross were the two best and reliable organizations I could find, and the latter was more convenient because my company pays the equivalent.
_________________________
"Training is nothing! The will is everything! The will to act." - Ra's al Ghul

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#409021 - 01/17/10 12:16 AM Re: The Haiti Earthquake and Natural Disasters. [Re: Phineas]
Quaark Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 8823
I am in favor of doing what works, with "works" being strictly defined only as alleviating the suffering of children who cannot be blamed by any rational person for their plight.

What has been done in the past has obviously not worked, for a variety of complex reasons with roots two centuries old.

I see no realistic proposals on the table that will work, because the same reasons that have caused what has been done that has not worked in the past, are still firmly in place, and no aspect of any current proposal addresses any of those reasons.

Without getting into the specifics of what those reasons are, the inertia of unworkability in the case of Haiti is so massive and entrenched, and the unwillingness to even honestly address what those reasons really are is also subject to the same forces of inertia and entrenchedness.

The root equation in play is:

Human nature multiplied by entrenched systemic inertia.

Human nature is not going to change, and I see no indication at all of any outside force of realistically sufficient strength being brought to bear at any time on the entrenched systemic inertia for movement in a genuinely positive and sustained direction to even begin.

At the same time, it is politically infeasible for politicians in the developed world to do nothing in the current situation, so various gestures must and will be made until things are sufficiently non-critical for the media to pay attention to the next crisis, at which point Haiti will drop off of everybody's radar, and the status quo will reassert itself.

However, that status quo will now be even further degraded; the billions that will be spent will result only in the appeasement of developed world guilt and "compassion", temporarily, and not in any change in the systemic inertia fundamentally at fault.

*shrug*
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T’aa hwo’ aaji t’eego.

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#409023 - 01/17/10 12:19 AM Re: The Haiti Earthquake and Natural Disasters. [Re: J. Favenris]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8262
I mentioned it here because it is relevant to the topic and not to parade as some sort of saint.

Didn't say you had. I was simply making some general observations.
_________________________
"Consensus is the absence of leadership." Margaret Thatcher

"I'm fascinated with how primitive the human mind still is. It can be misdirected so easily." John Gaughan


"Success is uncommon. Therefore, not to be enjoyed by the common man." Cal Stoll

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#409024 - 01/17/10 12:20 AM Re: The Haiti Earthquake and Natural Disasters. [Re: Quaark]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8262
Yes!
_________________________
"Consensus is the absence of leadership." Margaret Thatcher

"I'm fascinated with how primitive the human mind still is. It can be misdirected so easily." John Gaughan


"Success is uncommon. Therefore, not to be enjoyed by the common man." Cal Stoll

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#409026 - 01/17/10 12:28 AM Re: The Haiti Earthquake and Natural Disasters. [Re: J. Favenris]
Poetaster Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 2334
Loc: East Coast, USA.
Haiti is a cesspool of staggering proportions. History, in her delicate fashion has conspired to create a geographical locale that is nothing more than a breeding ground for subhuman monsters. Civilization never got a firm foothold in ol' Haiti.

I'd say that the death of tens of thousands of people is probably a boon to the region. The burden of sustainable food resources for those fortunate enough to survive through the inevitable chaos and self-destruction already occurring will probably be a little easier with fewer people fighting over them.

It's hard to feel sorry for people using dead bodies and rubble to build roadblocks to impede relief efforts because of impatience over the speed of...the relief efforts. A little odd, wouldn't you say?
_________________________
"People who harbor strong convictions without evidence belong at the margins of our societies, not in our halls of power. The only thing we should respect in a person’s faith is his desire for a better life in this world; we need never have respected his certainty that one awaits him in the next."

- Sam Harris





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#409027 - 01/17/10 12:28 AM Re: The Haiti Earthquake and Natural Disasters. [Re: J. Favenris]
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 10566
Loc: England
It is impossible as a human being not to feel some sympathy for the innocent individuals caught up in the disaster.

There are quite a few people here who wouldn't be quite so ardent in banging on about survival of the fittest if a massive earthquake hit their neck of the woods - California, say.

They'd be in the handout queue like everyone else - unfortunately for them, nobody would want to give them anything.
grin

There are people deserving of help amidst the shit. I don't see a problem with lending a charitable hand. In these instances charity isn't a complete waste of time - The Red Cross workers are right there in the rubble pulling children out of the wreckage.

People can only hope that when the next big one hits SF the same workers are there to pull their children out the wreckage.

_________________________
"Spiral Out: a bleak, page-turning, unforgettable read. Existentialism at its most hardcore" - www.uvray.moonfruit.com





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#409029 - 01/17/10 12:38 AM Re: The Haiti Earthquake and Natural Disasters. [Re: Drake_Bamboozle]
Quaark Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 8823
Quite.

There is in this conversation here a bit of confusion between the value of emergency disaster aid such as pulling kids out of rubble and then feeding them, and sending a known hyper-corrupt government billions of dollars later trusting it will be spent wisely.

Two very different things.

Who do I respect more?

A Red Cross worker risking their life pulling kids out of dangerous rubble while surrounded by animals with machetes, or some spoiled twat in America playing video games and Dungeons and Fucking Dragons, and calling themselves "Satanic" on a message board because they think those kids should just stay trapped and die?

One guess.
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T’aa hwo’ aaji t’eego.

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