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#409557 - 01/20/10 08:35 PM "The Satanic Witch": useful to males?
Liberterius Offline


Registered: 01/06/10
Posts: 241
Now, I have read and am quite well-versed in the Satanic Bible, and any essay by a real Satanist I can find online, meaning mostly the ones from the official CoS site. I'm thinking of ordering at least "Satanic Rituals" (need moar ritual sources!) and "Satanic Scriptures" (moar ideas n such!) from amazon one of these days, but then there's "The Satanic Witch"...wasn't it written primarily for females?
Now, I have researched the book a little before asking on here; the basics I know of it are that it was on LaVey's ideas of personalities and seduction, also on general Lesser Magic. Sounds like a lot of it is rather Jungian; archetypes and all that? Specially with the Synthesizer Clock, which I read a summary of online. I'm not SUPER educated on psychology (just one high school course and some online readings, everday interaction helps too lol) but I find it a very interesting subject and one that Satanism has some very good takes on. (hence it being mah religion lol)

BUT, the thing with it, is that it sounds very female-oriented, like it's from the point of view of setting yourself up as a FEMALE archetype, and all on seducing and getting power from men of power. I mean I see how this could still be useful to me, on resisting it and all and some could still apply to me as a man, but still...is it really all that worth buying, and will it much help out my lesser magic? Especially in the realm of attracting chicks.
Sorry if this sounds dumb or whatever, but I'd just like to see some of the more experienced peep's opinions on here...
Thank you!
HS

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#409559 - 01/20/10 09:01 PM Re: "The Satanic Witch": useful to males? [Re: Liberterius]
NapalmNick Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/23/08
Posts: 2153
Quote:
but then there's "The Satanic Witch"...wasn't it written primarily for females?

Ah, now there you would be mistaken.

The Satanic Witch is one of my personal favorites, and I'm a dude. It is ESSENTIAL for fully understanding Lesser Magic, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, political beliefs, etc.

And you are spot on with psychology. Any books that serve as treatises on the matter are good; books that specialize in social psychology (or even sociology, for that matter) are even better.

I would also recommend anything you can find on Western philosophy. Here's a cool tie-in: In Magister Svengali's book, Essays in Satanism, he gives a basic list of reading material for his own Project Faust. The Great Books of the Western World are included, which contain the core philosophers of much of Europe and the early Americas, including Nietzsche.

Also, look into anything you can read that details logic. Especially anything that goes over the various fallacies and so on; fallacious arguments are the herd's calling card. If you know how to recognize them quickly you can save yourself a lot of grief.

In short, do not do yourself the disservice of assuming TSW is "just for women". If you're bright, you will easily be able to take what concepts are supplied within its pages and apply them to yourself.

P.S. The bibliography at the end of TSW is worth half your money anyway.


Edited by NapalmNick (01/20/10 09:02 PM)
Edit Reason: Spelling Error
_________________________
"Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris; not the end." --Leonard Nimoy as Captain Spock in The Undiscovered Country

"May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house." --George Carlin, Playin' With Your Head

"[There is] no contradiction between saying 'evolution has no purpose' and 'organisms have purposes'; just different vocabularies for different levels of description." --Sean Carroll

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#409562 - 01/20/10 09:20 PM Re: "The Satanic Witch": useful to males? [Re: NapalmNick]
SteelAndStone Offline


Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 40
Loc: California
If you are looking for more ideas and more rituals, The Satanic Witch has both. It is, on the surface at least, female-oriented, but it's worth reading beyond simply learning to recognize and "resist" certain techniques. Some things (the rituals, mainly) can be altered for use by males, and while some techniques (placing menstrual blood in cleavage comes immediately to mind) are probably best left to the ladies, there are principles that can be applied equally well by males and females alike.

I find that when it comes to Anton LaVey's works, I get an overview the first time I read, and slowly understand more and more upon subsequent readings. I'd be lying if I said I was an "expert" on either Lesser or Greater magic, but I've picked up a few things from the Satanic Witch.

Originally Posted By: NapalmNick
P.S. The bibliography at the end of TSW is worth half your money anyway.

Over the past month, I have scoured the internet, looking for lists of "classics" and amassing a list of books I intend reading, and yet I completely forgot about the bibliography until I read your post. Thank you for the reminder.
_________________________
Let no sun set which has not shone upon your advance.

The Book of Steel and Stone

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#409563 - 01/20/10 09:21 PM Re: "The Satanic Witch": useful to males? [Re: NapalmNick]
Liberterius Offline


Registered: 01/06/10
Posts: 241
Thanks for the feedback! smile

Well, I gotta trust Mr. Spock of all people! (but no really when u talked about logic it rly made it connect with your pic...and lol i love star trek) Anyway, yeah thank you, I'll definitely add it to shopping cart then. The start on Lesser Magic from The Satanic Bible was decent, but I'm definitely looking for more detail on it, so nice to know the ideas from Satanic Witch apply to both (any? wink ) genders.
Ah Nietzsche...I LIKE him and much of his philosophy, but reading it right from his source in the actuall text I have a real tough time with smirk
I try to struggle through, but I often need to like ask for "translation" on it lol, and I usually consider myself a very good reader. Ayn Rand I like a lot, definitely a lot of Satanic basis there. The Art of War by Sun Tzu, not Western, but I'd say still great for...anyone really, who wants go succeed in goals and what not.
I'll check out that Essays in Satanism, sounds kewl, thank you much.

Bibliography in TSW...hm. Didn't know it had one, very kewl. I know the original Satanic Bible edition used to have a forward that credited Ragnar Redbeard, Nietszhe, and Ayn Rand...

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#409568 - 01/20/10 10:30 PM Re: "The Satanic Witch": useful to males? [Re: Liberterius]
NapalmNick Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/23/08
Posts: 2153
Translation for Nietzsche? I believe the vast majority of his works have been translated into easy-to-read English. Another thing about Magister Svengali: He has contributed to a new edition of Nietzsche's Antichrist, the version translated into English by H.L. Mencken. If what you meant was simply the use of long sentences and so on, I can understand when you first start reading him; after a few readings of individual essays you start to get a feel for how his writing operates and it becomes MUCH less tedious.

And yes, Eastern philosophy can be good if you have a good shit-filter installed in your brain. wink

Lesser Magic is an ongoing learning and practicing process. Don't let anything get in your way of doing just that.
_________________________
"Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris; not the end." --Leonard Nimoy as Captain Spock in The Undiscovered Country

"May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house." --George Carlin, Playin' With Your Head

"[There is] no contradiction between saying 'evolution has no purpose' and 'organisms have purposes'; just different vocabularies for different levels of description." --Sean Carroll

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#409579 - 01/21/10 02:31 AM Re: "The Satanic Witch": useful to males? [Re: NapalmNick]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
Quote:

P.S. The bibliography at the end of TSW is worth half your money anyway.


Magister Lang once called The Satanic Witch the meat of Satanism.

The bibliography demonstrates this quite nicely.
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#409619 - 01/21/10 03:11 PM Re: "The Satanic Witch": useful to males? [Re: Unknown]
Liberterius Offline


Registered: 01/06/10
Posts: 241
NapalmNick, by "translation" I didn't mean translating from the German, I just meant as you said that the phrasing, long sentences and sometimes the concepts themselves are quite higher level and sometimes confusing. Still he said a lot of great stuff, brilliant philosopher, but I have a hard time getting my head around some of it. And I know what you mean with it getting less tedious over reading more; I felt the same way in 9th grade reading Shakespeare first time.

I think a good working shit-filter is vital when reading anything philosophical lol.

Ok, Satanic Witch is officialy my highest priorty book to get next now. smile
Blaaaaaaah midterm exams coming up next week though......blah.

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#409881 - 01/23/10 05:37 PM Re: "The Satanic Witch": useful to males? [Re: Liberterius]
Drakkar Tyrannis Offline


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 122
Loc: Maryland,USA
Honestly, I'd pretty much devoured all the books and TSW was the last one. It took longer to get into as obviously it was geared towards females, however once I got over that concept, the book's lessons took off quickly. A man would be a fool not to see how valuable the book is to Satanists regardless of gender. Even the segments of the book which may be a bit "strange" make perfect sense and are rooted in logic rather than LaVey's personal opinion.

It also makes you respect Satanic witches in an entirely new way. A woman able to master the info in that book has the potential to be, quite literally, a deadly individual. It surely made me respect witches, magistras, etc, on an entirely deeper level.

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#409883 - 01/23/10 06:24 PM Re: "The Satanic Witch": useful to males? [Re: Drakkar Tyrannis]
NapalmNick Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/23/08
Posts: 2153
Quote:
rooted in logic rather than LaVey's personal opinion.

Well, I understand where you're coming from, but is it impossible to have a personal opinion that is rooted in logic? I think not. There are probably a few Satanic Witches (and Warlocks) who prefer pantyhose, for whatever reason. In TSW Doktor LaVey ridicules pantyhose in favor of stockings.

Logic is simply the mechanism by which humans make sense of their world (both objective AND subjective). There are many examples of statements that are logically sound, but objectively false.

For example: If all the women I deem "intelligent" wear stockings, I can deduce that is true for every woman who'll walk through the door that will appear intelligent to me. And yet, in a detached, completely objective frame of mind, I have to admit it is entirely possible that several women exist (who I'd find intelligent) that would wear pantyhose, or neither.

Another: if every man you personally meet has short hair, you may very well assume that all men have short hair. But that does not remove the fact that in reality a sizable group of men have long hair.

These examples only cover one out of the myriad of fallacies that can (and will) be committed in similar contexts.

I would say that the statement "The Satanic Witch has more to do with objective reality than The Devil's Notebook" is basically sound; there are several essays within TDN and SS that are obviously the Doktor's own opinions, thrown out there for humorous effect or some other reason I'm unaware of.

This is not to tarnish the merits of any of his works; all of them have a very special meaning to me. In a very real sense I would not be where I am today if Anton Szandor LaVey had not penned his books. This is where my respect for him is rooted. wink
_________________________
"Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris; not the end." --Leonard Nimoy as Captain Spock in The Undiscovered Country

"May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house." --George Carlin, Playin' With Your Head

"[There is] no contradiction between saying 'evolution has no purpose' and 'organisms have purposes'; just different vocabularies for different levels of description." --Sean Carroll

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#410669 - 01/29/10 10:32 PM Re: "The Satanic Witch": useful to males? [Re: NapalmNick]
PsychOff Offline


Registered: 08/12/09
Posts: 51
I'm two-thirds the way into reading The Satanic Witch and I'm a 24 year old male. I had asked the same question to a fellow female Satanist I met at a Halloween party; she told me it's useful for males to sniff out the bullshit females, such as the ones who use fashion to camouflage themselves.

I haven't finished it yet but I can tell you I'm enjoying it and its good fun. Although it is written primarily for females, I find it helps me as a male Satanist to see what sort of girl I'd be most attracted to, what sort of person I am on LaVey's Synthesizer Clock (although he does mention not to take it literally but allow for gradation). It also shines a light on the cliches men and women perform to try and attract one another, and you will understand it from your own personal observations.

More importantly once you do find your partner, imagine you're a businessman of sorts and trying to secure a contract with another businessman, your fellow lady can help you to "seduce" him by having her altering her look and persona and make him more inclined to agree^^. So I think it is useful as a tool not just for females but for couples too to achieve their mutual goals.

Although there is a lot to remember, and performing many tasks at one time... well women generally can do that better than guys anyways. Apologies for sexist remark.
_________________________
They say the Light brings you truth and the Darkness only serves to tempt you;
I say the Light blinds you from the truth and the Darkness forces you to see, smell, listen, feel and think better.

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#410703 - 01/30/10 08:03 AM Re: "The Satanic Witch": useful to males? [Re: PsychOff]
Drakkar Tyrannis Offline


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 122
Loc: Maryland,USA
I think that, if a witch is really at one with her craft, you wouldn't be able to sniff out bullshit even if you've read that book. A witch only allows you to think that while she runs a completely different game on you. To me these lessons are about staying ahead of your "prey" and you can't just step out of being bewitched no matter how well equipped you think you are because if she's any good, she'll know how to deal with a subject that's a little more tricky than the garden variety male.

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#410722 - 01/30/10 12:28 PM Re: "The Satanic Witch": useful to males? [Re: Drakkar Tyrannis]
Quercuss Offline


Registered: 08/14/05
Posts: 47
Loc: Vermont, USA
I just checked my copy of TSW and was suprised not to find "How to Win Friends and Influence People" by Dale Carnegie in the bibliography.

I highly suggest this as a great follow up to TSW. These techniques combined with those of TSW and a Satanic mindset can only make it easier to achieve your goals.

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#410723 - 01/30/10 12:43 PM Re: "The Satanic Witch": useful to males? [Re: Quercuss]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
Quote:
I highly suggest this as a great follow up to TSW. These techniques combined with those of TSW and a Satanic mindset can only make it easier to achieve your goals.


While it may not be mentioned in the bibliography of The Satanic Witch Dr. LaVey most likely read it. The Devil is a gentleman after all. wink

Speaking of which I just picked up Public Speaking and Influencing Men in Business. I haven't finished it yet but I highly recommend it based off of what I have read thus far.
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#410747 - 01/30/10 05:57 PM Re: "The Satanic Witch": useful to males? [Re: Drakkar Tyrannis]
PsychOff Offline


Registered: 08/12/09
Posts: 51
Originally Posted By: Drakkar Tyrannis
I think that, if a witch is really at one with her craft, you wouldn't be able to sniff out bullshit even if you've read that book. A witch only allows you to think that while she runs a completely different game on you. To me these lessons are about staying ahead of your "prey" and you can't just step out of being bewitched no matter how well equipped you think you are because if she's any good, she'll know how to deal with a subject that's a little more tricky than the garden variety male.


Oh sorry, Drakkar Tyrannis, I probably didn't make myself clear; I didn't mean to sniff out the compleat witches and avoiding to be bewitched by a successful witch. I meant it helps to distinguish the women who feel it necessary to go along with what fashion dictates as beautiful and refusing certain tried and tested realities such as The Law of the Forbidden and thinking that men don't love with their eyes. Perhaps more precisely I should have said it helps me to see the folly in some women who fall head over heels attempting to grab a man only by sex alone. I most likely wouldn't notice a witch bewitching me, unless I knew they were a Satanist, and even then I wouldn't stop them. I'm just saying it shines a light on so many instances of sex and attraction that are constantly repeated in society thinking it is sound.

Apologies for the misinformation.^^
_________________________
They say the Light brings you truth and the Darkness only serves to tempt you;
I say the Light blinds you from the truth and the Darkness forces you to see, smell, listen, feel and think better.

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#410750 - 01/30/10 06:26 PM Re: "The Satanic Witch": useful to males? [Re: PsychOff]
ArtAche86 Offline


Registered: 10/24/08
Posts: 380
Loc: Cthulhu's Bowels,Kentucky
With that in mind,I wonder what it would be like to see a Warlock and Witch "butt heads" in the fields of lesser magic,when they haven't a clue who the person they're working is. . .
_________________________
You stay classy,Satans!

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#410847 - 01/31/10 09:31 PM Re: "The Satanic Witch": useful to males? [Re: ArtAche86]
Drakkar Tyrannis Offline


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 122
Loc: Maryland,USA
I swear that sounds like some movie pitch.

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#411392 - 02/06/10 05:28 AM Re: "The Satanic Witch": useful to males? [Re: Drakkar Tyrannis]
Machismo Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/05/10
Posts: 1132
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: Drakkar Tyrannis
A man would be a fool not to see how valuable the book is to Satanists regardless of gender.


Still, "The Satanic Warlock" is a book worth writing if anyone has material and ambition for it. Might want to include the gay male side of things.
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#411418 - 02/06/10 11:22 AM Re: "The Satanic Witch": useful to males? [Re: Machismo]
M.D. Roche Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 513
Loc: Albany, New York
Originally Posted By: RealityPrinciple
Might want to include the gay male side of things.


A book has already been written by an (ex)CoS member about homosexuality from a third side perspective. I'm not sure how much it has to do with lesser magic, though. I think it's just commentary on gay culture.
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#411430 - 02/06/10 02:29 PM Re: "The Satanic Witch": useful to males? [Re: M.D. Roche]
Machismo Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/05/10
Posts: 1132
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: MALFORM
A book has already been written by an (ex)CoS member about homosexuality from a third side perspective. I'm not sure how much it has to do with lesser magic, though. I think it's just commentary on gay culture.


Looks like a book my gay cousin would like. He hates effeminate guys. Wants his lovers to be virile. Freddie Mercury was the same way, from what I hear. This is one of the many topics a "Satanic Warlock" book could get into.
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#411441 - 02/06/10 04:19 PM Re: "The Satanic Witch": useful to males? [Re: Machismo]
Skjalandir Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 92
Loc: England
LaVey's books fill in all the areas on Satanism that we need. Other respected Satanists have written books that enrich us and add fuel to our fires. For anyone other than him to write 'The Satanic Warlock' would be an injustice, and if he had wanted to have written it he would have.

Just my opinion, but if you think something is really lacking in Satanic literature and you want to write an essay on it, go ahead and see if it becomes a recommended piece in the world of Satanism. This 'there should be' talk keeps making me think 'well who, exactly, do you want to write it?'.

Do it yourself and see if you are recognized for original and breakthrough Satanic thought.
_________________________
Einstein can't be classed as witless
He claimed atoms were the littlest
When you did a bit of splittingen-ness
Frighten everybody shitless
- Ian Dury

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#411454 - 02/06/10 06:16 PM Re: "The Satanic Witch": useful to males? [Re: Skjalandir]
Machismo Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/05/10
Posts: 1132
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: Skjalandir
LaVey's books fill in all the areas on Satanism that we need. Other respected Satanists have written books that enrich us and add fuel to our fires. For anyone other than him to write 'The Satanic Warlock' would be an injustice, and if he had wanted to have written it he would have.


I agree with all of that except the part about injustice, but one man's homage is another man's plagiarism, I guess. Would you react as strongly if another title was used for the same idea?

Quote:
Just my opinion, but if you think something is really lacking in Satanic literature and you want to write an essay on it, go ahead and see if it becomes a recommended piece in the world of Satanism.


I suck at writing. I'm too concise because I never have lots of things to say about something. I have one thing to say, say it, and shut up. Works for message board posting, but that's all.

Quote:
This 'there should be' talk keeps making me think 'well who, exactly, do you want to write it?'.


Someone other than me. jack

But seriously, my level of emotion around this idea is pretty low. I was just thinking out loud about something that would be cool if it existed. "Should be" is too strong. "Want" is too strong. But someone who's casting about for something cool to write about might be into this idea and run with it, adding something good to the world. If someone takes this all the way to publishing, I'll be a paying customer.
_________________________


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#411509 - 02/07/10 03:32 AM Re: "The Satanic Witch": useful to males? [Re: Machismo]
Skjalandir Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 92
Loc: England
Quote:
I agree with all of that except the part about injustice, but one man's homage is another man's plagiarism, I guess. Would you react as strongly if another title was used for the same idea?


Well it would be such a strong title that it would have to out do 'The Satanic Witch', which is already massivly influential to males and females alike, and it could only really be written by one person, because he really did have a devilish hand at writing.

Quote:
I suck at writing. I'm too concise because I never have lots of things to say about something. I have one thing to say, say it, and shut up. Works for message board posting, but that's all.


Point taken. No shame in that.

Quote:
But someone who's casting about for something cool to write about might be into this idea and run with it, adding something good to the world. If someone takes this all the way to publishing, I'll be a paying customer.


I agree with that part, and that's what my post was trying to suggest to you, but as you said, 'want' is too strong so it isn't as important a point now.
_________________________
Einstein can't be classed as witless
He claimed atoms were the littlest
When you did a bit of splittingen-ness
Frighten everybody shitless
- Ian Dury

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