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#410402 - 01/27/10 06:20 PM Dream, dream, Life is but a...
Unknown Offline
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Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
I have recently started doing some research based upon upon dreams, and their importance in life. Obviously there is a lot of research out there but the most authoritative voice on the concept of dreaming is Stephen LaBerge. There is a 9 part video series on youtube that I have been watching and one thing he mentioned I thought overlapped into the elements of Greater Magic quite nicely.



One particularly important point in the video is that our dreams are shaped by our assumptions of reality and that in order to have a much more freer mindset we must begin to loosen those assumptions. Mr. LaBerge does elaborate on this quite nicely.

How do we really know what is possible and impossible if we limit our mental perceptions? Obviously bullshit exists so we have mental filters but is it possible that sometimes we assume things? Right now we are assuming that we are not dreaming. But how can we know that to be a fact? An experience in a dream is just as real as an experience when you are awake. Sometimes it may even be more vivid and sensual. So just what is a dream anyway? And if we can simply forget our dreams and if we are dreaming now is it not possible that we can simply erase things we wish to not remember? For example an embarrassing moment in our childhood. Also some would say that we are unconscious that is how we know we are not dreaming now because we are conscious. Well then how do you remember your dreams if you are not conscious?

Any thoughts on this fascinating subject?

Has anyone practiced lucid dreaming or has had intensified experiences?


Edited by Daark (01/28/10 10:55 AM)
Edit Reason: Thread edited for hygiene: please continue.
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#410477 - 01/28/10 01:04 PM Re: Dream, dream, Life is but a... [Re: Unknown]
Unknown Offline
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Registered: 03/31/05
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Also Mr. LaBerge discussed on Coast to Coast AM that such dream phenomenon is not uncommon in eastern cultures. The reason why it is not as prominent in western culture is because people neglect the importance of dreams. Media culture really pollutes the mind. Reminds me of Dr. LaVey's essay in SATAN SPEAKS: Don't Be A Slave to (Other's) Subliminals.

In my initial post I asked the question that is it possible that we assume things about the nature of reality?

Dr. LaVey fine tuned The Blance Factor within The Satanic Bibleto encompass the nature of reality. Really if the nature of reality is up for debate then how much of The Balance Factor is left unexplored? Obviously for the Magician Satanic Ceremony is about getting the results and understanding how it operates isn't as important. But the Magician who is capable of allowing the mind to be flexible and not stiffened into the stigmata of culture has much more capability in exploring the realms of sorcery. It is no wonder that the more advanced Magicians are incredibly creative. They have raised themselves above the assumptions of reality and operate on what they have discovered. Magister Rex is a prime example of such creative energy. Just look at his master pieces: Diabolusrex.com

It was always those who challenged the assumptions of reality that have become the pioneers of our future.

So then what does this have to do with dreaming?

As Mr. LaBerge discusses it is our dreams that allow us to explore realms that are not confined within a boxed mindset.

If we allow the assumptions of this world to dictate us and allow our dreams to be polluted by such assumptions then we are in fact missing out a very important part of our world. Some may even say that this is the dream world.

So I have been asking myself some very important questions for my life. How much shit will I allow myself to consume when my mind is the most important aspect for survival? Am I truly conscious of what is going on around me?

Any thoughts for discussion? Oh and by the way, please watch the video if you haven't already before chiming in to keep this post on track. Thanks!
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#410489 - 01/28/10 03:05 PM Re: Dream, dream, Life is but a... [Re: Unknown]
M.D. Roche Offline
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Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 513
Loc: Albany, New York
I honestly don't pay much attention to dreams. I rarely have them, and when I do I only remember fragments of them.

I tend to focus on what I can see rather than ideas of what might be. I can only hear "what if..." mentioned in a sentence so many times before I get bored. Of course entertaining the concept of a dream world is fun, but in my opinion it's all mental masturbation.

Obviously I wouldn't make a very good magician, but then again I also doubt (notice the emphasis) the validity or existence of magic.
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#410496 - 01/28/10 04:00 PM Re: Dream, dream, Life is but a... [Re: M.D. Roche]
Unknown Offline
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Posts: 1649
Quote:
Obviously I wouldn't make a very good magician, but then again I also doubt (notice the emphasis) the validity or existence of magic.


Of course when one enters into the Satanic Ceremony for the purpose of magic then suspension of that very doubt is vital.

That is the point of Satanic Ritual.

Ritual for the purpose of magic isn't for everyone.

Also have you ever considered the importance of dreams or not? If you haven't then how do you know if it is all just mental masturbation?

Thank you for your reply.
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#410592 - 01/29/10 11:55 AM Re: Dream, dream, Life is but a... [Re: Unknown]
Bill_M Offline
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Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11561
Loc: New England, USA
I first found LaBerge's work 20 years ago, and since then I've been working off and on with lucid dreaming. There's more extensive talk about dreams, lucid dreaming, and its applications in the members-only section of this board.
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#410593 - 01/29/10 11:57 AM Re: Dream, dream, Life is but a... [Re: Unknown]
Unknown Offline
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It is no wonder that the more advanced Magicians are incredibly creative. They have raised themselves above the assumptions of reality and operate on what they have discovered.

By the way media pop culture does NOT qualify as creative. vomit

There is a reason why Lack of Aesthetics is among the The Nine Satanic Sins.

9. Lack of Aesthetics—This is the physical application of the Balance Factor. Aesthetics is important in Lesser Magic and should be cultivated. It is obvious that no one can collect any money off classical standards of beauty and form most of the time so they are discouraged in a consumer society, but an eye for beauty, for balance, is an essential Satanic tool and must be applied for greatest magical effectiveness. It’s not what’s supposed to be pleasing—it’s what is. Aesthetics is a personal thing, reflective of one’s own nature, but there are universally pleasing and harmonious configurations that should not be denied. Anton LaVey
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#410595 - 01/29/10 12:05 PM Re: Dream, dream, Life is but a... [Re: Unknown]
XUL Offline


Registered: 12/12/09
Posts: 238
Loc: Oslo, Norway
You need to be careful with this stuff.

What will happen if you succeed in becoming a lucid dreamer is that you will break down some barriers between the conscious and the subconscious mind - and that can spell disaster if you don't have the inner discipline to sort snot from moustaches as you go along. I.e. you can quite literally lose your mind, because "things" from the dream consciousness can and will seep into your everyday consciousness and make you hallucinate.

It is a two-way road. For comparision, you might want to consider that such an act as ingesting hallucinogenic drugs (LSD and such) is to violently smash holes in that barrier, often without having the sobriety to understand what is what later.
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#410597 - 01/29/10 12:15 PM Re: Dream, dream, Life is but a... [Re: XUL]
Unknown Offline
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According to Jaffe and Bresler (1980), "Mental imagery mobilizes the latent, inner powers of the person, which have immense potential to aid in the promotion of health." I believe this statement applies even more to lucid dreaming, a state that typically possesses the most vivid imagery possible. In the following, we will sur-vey potential applications of lucid dreaming to healing. Stephen LaBerge
Healing Through Lucid Dreaming

Despite what you say science proves otherwise.
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#410600 - 01/29/10 12:17 PM Re: Dream, dream, Life is but a... [Re: XUL]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11561
Loc: New England, USA
Have you actually known anybody who was an avid practicing lucid dreamer, and through no other factors, went insane over it? As I said, I've been doing lucid dreaming for a while now, and I've never had a problem separating that from my waking state. Even a really long lucid dream on average doesn't tend to last longer than a few minutes. And while it's not always easy to recognize when one is dreaming, it's quite easy to recognize when one is not dreaming.
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Reverend Bill M.

http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
New hour every week. Download the mp3 now!

http://www.aplaceformystuff.org: Tales of Combat Clutter and other Adventures

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#410601 - 01/29/10 12:24 PM Re: Dream, dream, Life is but a... [Re: Bill_M]
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Yes I know, I've been told but I was hoping to spark something upstairs seeing as I do not have access as of now. But perhaps I will sooner than later. wink
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#410602 - 01/29/10 12:29 PM Re: Dream, dream, Life is but a... [Re: Unknown]
Quaark Offline

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Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 8876
The two subjects that are specifically discouraged from upstairs discussion are politics and Greater Magic, and lucid dreaming isn't either (although lucid dreaming could arguably intersect with Greater Magic), so as a Mod I see no problem.

But Rev. Bill is quite right though, lucid dreaming is discussed in far greater depth downstairs!
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#410603 - 01/29/10 12:35 PM Re: Dream, dream, Life is but a... [Re: Quaark]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
Quote:

But Rev. Bill is quite right though, lucid dreaming is discussed in far greater depth downstairs!


So I am noticing.

I would love to dig into those forums downstairs!

Any teasers available? grin
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#410606 - 01/29/10 01:02 PM Re: Dream, dream, Life is but a... [Re: Bill_M]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 6999
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
Originally Posted By: Bill_M
And while it's not always easy to recognize when one is dreaming, it's quite easy to recognize when one is not dreaming.


Right...and if I may, the post you are responding to indicates someone who is not in control of their senses. Lack of control, at least in my understanding, is the opposite of lucid dreaming...being very much IN control.


Edited by Roho_the_Rooster (01/29/10 01:05 PM)
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#410607 - 01/29/10 01:06 PM Re: Dream, dream, Life is but a... [Re: Unknown]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
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Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 6999
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
Originally Posted By: Unknown
[quote]


Any teasers available? grin


Yes...for $200 bucks! An incredible deal. grin wink
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#410608 - 01/29/10 01:12 PM Re: Dream, dream, Life is but a... [Re: Bill_M]
XUL Offline


Registered: 12/12/09
Posts: 238
Loc: Oslo, Norway
Originally Posted By: Bill_M
Have you actually known anybody who was an avid practicing lucid dreamer, and through no other factors, went insane over it?


This is a tricky issue.

Lucid dreaming is but one half of the equation. The other one is the discipline of "waking" mind and the very human tendency to jump at conclusions. In my opinion, you need both halves to perform a successful "great work", meaning that you have to learn about meditation as well. However, as these phenomenons start to intercross, you will experience strange things - and that's when the ability to for beliefs may play tricks on your mind.

For instance, you will hear a lot of people talking about how they can observe "auras" and whatnot... failing to understand that these are but hallucinations that are emanating from your "dreaming awareness". So in order to answer your question, yes I do know several people who has gotten stuck inbetween like that. They got scared. They started seeing and hearing abnormal things. Some sought comfort in, well, you know, Christ the saviour and shit like that...
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