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#411665 - 02/08/10 12:33 PM Re: How many kids do YOU want? [Re: Original Sly]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12982
Loc: The Solid State
Previously, I felt the same way as Rev. Daark: to wit, children are loud, smelly, expensive, messy, time-consuming, and annoying, and I need them like I need a hole in the forehead.

But, in the past few years, I've gotten to know and observe some kids in a number of settings--some incredibly neat and interesting, others absolute wastes of good carbon*--and I've thought more about the overall impact I've had on my own parents' lives, and how their lives would be different--better in some ways, worse in others--if I had never been born. So, my feelings around the issue have changed somewhat.

If and when I decide to have offspring, though, I think one rugrat will be more than enough for me smile.

And whenever this topic comes up, I can't help but remember this perhaps-not-so-famous movie scene:
http://www.break.com/usercontent/2007/1/First-10-minutes-of-Idiocracy-Clip-1-204451.html

*Usually, the apple doesn't fall very far from the tree.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#411666 - 02/08/10 12:37 PM Re: How many kids do YOU want? [Re: TrojZyr]
Quaark Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 8697
Ah, but you have a womb, so there is a potentially rewarding biological imperative at work in you entirely absent in me.

I just wanna... have fun.

Biologically imperatively speaking, that is.

wink
_________________________
Helium II is a superfluid, a quantum mechanical state of matter with strange properties .

The thermal conductivity of helium II is greater than that of any other known substance, a million times that of helium I and hundred of times that of copper. This is because heat conduction occurs via a quantum mechanism.

Second sound is a quantum mechanical phenomenon in which heat transfer occurs by wave-like motion, rather than by the usual mechanism of diffusion. Heat takes the place of pressure in normal sound waves. This leads to very high thermal conductivity. It's known as "second sound" because the wave motion of heat is similar to the propagation of sound in air.

Sound waves are fluctuations in the density of molecules in a substance; second sound waves are fluctuations in the density of phonons. Second sound can be observed in any system in which most phonon-phonon collisions conserve momentum. This occurs in superfluids and in dielectric crystals when Umklapp scattering is small.

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#411667 - 02/08/10 12:42 PM Re: How many kids do YOU want? [Re: Quaark]
Original Sly Offline


Registered: 09/10/09
Posts: 205
Loc: New Zealand
Quote:
I knew at ten, and told everyone in earshot, that I would never have children.


Holy crap! I think at ten I was too busy reading about vampires and ghosts (maybe even obsessively so) to think about girls or having children!

Although I liked the last three replies a lot, I'll direct this to you Rev. Daark.

Why do you think that so many people are shocked by a person's choice not to have children?

I'd say that people are also shocked, lesser so perhaps, when someone says that one child is enough.

Do you think it stems from an innate biological imperative to procreate? I'm not sure that I know of any cases where animals control the number of offspring they have, so perhaps the surprise that a "single or no child" response elicits is due to something of that nature?
_________________________
"It stands to reason that where there's sacrifice, there's someone collecting sacrificial offerings" - Ellsworth Toohey, Ayn Rand's The Fountainhead p.637

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#411668 - 02/08/10 12:46 PM Re: How many kids do YOU want? [Re: Original Sly]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Quote:
If one believes himself to be the elite, to possess an intellect and abilities above the herd, should one procreate in order to populate the world with superior offspring?

A Satanist's elite status has basically nothing to do with their genes. Never mind congenital diseases like diabetes: anyone versed in the history of the Church of Satan should know that kids don't get "elite genes" no matter who their parents are.

Even if it were genetic, the Satanist doesn't owe the world a better stock.
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reprobate

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#411669 - 02/08/10 12:53 PM Re: How many kids do YOU want? [Re: Original Sly]
Quaark Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 8697
The more primitive the culture, the more unacceptable not having children is. In Africa for example, it is literally unthinkable.

A childless friend was traveling in rural West Africa, and in one village tried to explain his choice to remain childless. When they finally understood (after hours of incredulous incomprehension), they accused him of being a witch and tried to kill him.

He escaped, and using his noggin this time, at the next village when asked how many children he had (and this will ALWAYS be one of the first questions asked in all of Africa), he lied and said he had SO many children from SO many different women, he really had no idea. Dozens.

They treated him as a God and had access to as many girls as he could have wanted. (Due to HIV, he passed on them all.)

Fertility is and has been revered throughout all of history, for many obvious reasons, both in terms of fulfilling the deepest biological imperatives, and also for reasons of tribal growth and strength.

It is only VERY recently that birth control and awareness of the effects of unrestrained population growth in the civilized societies has engendered ANY awareness of any countervailing positive aspects of reproductive restraint.

Holdovers from the mental processes of all human history will continue to have resonance for a long time.
_________________________
Helium II is a superfluid, a quantum mechanical state of matter with strange properties .

The thermal conductivity of helium II is greater than that of any other known substance, a million times that of helium I and hundred of times that of copper. This is because heat conduction occurs via a quantum mechanism.

Second sound is a quantum mechanical phenomenon in which heat transfer occurs by wave-like motion, rather than by the usual mechanism of diffusion. Heat takes the place of pressure in normal sound waves. This leads to very high thermal conductivity. It's known as "second sound" because the wave motion of heat is similar to the propagation of sound in air.

Sound waves are fluctuations in the density of molecules in a substance; second sound waves are fluctuations in the density of phonons. Second sound can be observed in any system in which most phonon-phonon collisions conserve momentum. This occurs in superfluids and in dielectric crystals when Umklapp scattering is small.

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#411671 - 02/08/10 01:06 PM Re: How many kids do YOU want? [Re: reprobate]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12982
Loc: The Solid State
Well, and there's more to being elite than just having an impressive genetic code. My overall genetic code probably doesn't make for riveting reading, but I like to think my intellect, my creativity, and my personality more than make up for it.

While I of course want my hypothetical kid to hit the ground with as many advantages and as few disadvantages as possible, my real goal is to give him or her stability, love, and a true sense of self-confidence, and to help foster within him or her a real appreciation for indulgence, logic, and life.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#411675 - 02/08/10 01:24 PM Re: How many kids do YOU want? [Re: TrojZyr]
Skjalandir Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 92
Loc: England
Quote:
My overall genetic code probably doesn't make for riveting reading, but I like to think my intellect, my creativity, and my personality more than make up for it.


I agree. I just hope my first born forgives me for passing on the same genetic code as Henry Spencer.

If not I will have to take a pair of scissors to it.


Edited by Skjalandir (02/08/10 01:24 PM)
_________________________
Einstein can't be classed as witless
He claimed atoms were the littlest
When you did a bit of splittingen-ness
Frighten everybody shitless
- Ian Dury

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#411677 - 02/08/10 01:33 PM Re: How many kids do YOU want? [Re: Original Sly]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11465
Loc: New England, USA
Quote:
How many kids do YOU want?

Zero. I am fiercely childfree. I even get involved somewhat with childfree groups, including a s.i.g. within Mensa.

Actually, let me rephrase that. I don't want to be a PARENT. I'm not opposed to being a gamete donor, so long as it's put in legal writing that I am to have no responsibilities.

Originally Posted By: Original Sly
If one believes himself to be the elite, to possess an intellect and abilities above the herd, should one procreate in order to populate the world with superior offspring?

No. I am under no obligation to contribute to the gene pool.

Quote:
Or should one procreate sparingly and focus his resources and abilities on one or few children rather than many?

As with any other decision in life, it should be up to the individual Satanist who weighs the options (including his or her own gratification), decided duties, and responsibilities.

Quote:
Has anyone else thought about this kind of thing too?

Who HASN'T contemplated the decision of becoming a parent?
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http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
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#411681 - 02/08/10 01:45 PM Re: How many kids do YOU want? [Re: Quaark]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11465
Loc: New England, USA
Originally Posted By: Daark
The more primitive the culture, the more unacceptable not having children is.

I would think that a lot of this has to do with mortality rates, plus the way the culture's economy works. A century or two ago here in the U.S., it wasn't unusual to have a family of 8 or 10 kids. But part of the reason for that was to have extra hands to help you run the family farm, and along with the fact that natural infant/child death was way more common. Not to mention fewer people thinking about college tuition.
_________________________
Reverend Bill M.

http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
New hour every week. Download the mp3 now!

http://www.aplaceformystuff.org: Tales of Combat Clutter and other Adventures

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#411682 - 02/08/10 01:46 PM Re: How many kids do YOU want? [Re: Bill_M]
M.D. Roche Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 513
Loc: Albany, New York
I pity people who are around my age (24)--and any other age for that matter--whose lives have been complicated or ruined because they either didn't want to "wrap it up" or take birth control. In my opinion, this is the root of inner city crime. Women irresponsibly breed with several "baby's daddys", can't afford to live anywhere other than projects and ghettos, leech off of the welfare system, don't know shit about parenting and don't have a partner to help them. It's no wonder so many kids are joining gangs--they're literally the family they never had. Of course this isn't an excuse by any means, just something to consider.

As for me, I'd sooner castrate myself before having a child. I have enough trouble taking care of myself and my own life. Of course I'm also homosexual, so this really doesn't concern me too much. grin
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#411683 - 02/08/10 01:47 PM Re: How many kids do YOU want? [Re: Bill_M]
Quaark Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 8697
Precisely right! (You usually are!)
_________________________
Helium II is a superfluid, a quantum mechanical state of matter with strange properties .

The thermal conductivity of helium II is greater than that of any other known substance, a million times that of helium I and hundred of times that of copper. This is because heat conduction occurs via a quantum mechanism.

Second sound is a quantum mechanical phenomenon in which heat transfer occurs by wave-like motion, rather than by the usual mechanism of diffusion. Heat takes the place of pressure in normal sound waves. This leads to very high thermal conductivity. It's known as "second sound" because the wave motion of heat is similar to the propagation of sound in air.

Sound waves are fluctuations in the density of molecules in a substance; second sound waves are fluctuations in the density of phonons. Second sound can be observed in any system in which most phonon-phonon collisions conserve momentum. This occurs in superfluids and in dielectric crystals when Umklapp scattering is small.

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#411687 - 02/08/10 01:54 PM Re: How many kids do YOU want? [Re: M.D. Roche]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11465
Loc: New England, USA
Quote:
I pity people who are around my age (24)--and any other age for that matter--whose lives have been complicated or ruined because they either didn't want to "wrap it up" or take birth control.

I've seen some horrible reasons by the same demographic for intentionally having children. I've known women who tried getting pregnant to force a man into staying in the relationship with them. I've known couples who never really talked it through, and both just assumed that having children was what the other partner wanted. There's also pressure from "friends" and family members who want to be grandparents. And I've seen people who just assume that establishing a family was just the naturally next thing to do after getting a career and a house.
_________________________
Reverend Bill M.

http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
New hour every week. Download the mp3 now!

http://www.aplaceformystuff.org: Tales of Combat Clutter and other Adventures

(Wenn du Google's ‹bersetzer verwendest, um diese Worte zu lesen, dann bist du ein Arschloch.)

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#411689 - 02/08/10 02:08 PM Re: How many kids do YOU want? [Re: Original Sly]
JustinR Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 1505
Loc: Newfoundland, Canada
No sir, no kids for me. I like kids, but it's not for me. I like the way my life is now, and having kids is a huge commitment. For some reason, kids love me and gravitate towards me (probably because of my goofiness), but I don't really want any kids of my own.
_________________________
"If you're going to be a sinner, be the best sinner on the block." - Anton Szandor LaVey

"If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking." - General George S. Patton

JustinR on The Undercroft


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#411691 - 02/08/10 02:16 PM Re: How many kids do YOU want? [Re: Quaark]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11465
Loc: New England, USA
Originally Posted By: Daark
Precisely right! (You usually are!)

Thanks! I try. grin

Ironically, the more common practice today of having only one child (read: somebody to focus 100% of the attention on), has helped lead to a lot of the unfounded parental paranoia trends today.

_________________________
Reverend Bill M.

http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
New hour every week. Download the mp3 now!

http://www.aplaceformystuff.org: Tales of Combat Clutter and other Adventures

(Wenn du Google's ‹bersetzer verwendest, um diese Worte zu lesen, dann bist du ein Arschloch.)

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#411692 - 02/08/10 02:18 PM Re: How many kids do YOU want? [Re: Branwyn]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11465
Loc: New England, USA
Originally Posted By: Branwyn
I think that I would like two.

Then respond to the original poster, not me. crazy
_________________________
Reverend Bill M.

http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
New hour every week. Download the mp3 now!

http://www.aplaceformystuff.org: Tales of Combat Clutter and other Adventures

(Wenn du Google's ‹bersetzer verwendest, um diese Worte zu lesen, dann bist du ein Arschloch.)

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