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#412333 - 02/13/10 03:58 AM Big Bang Machine!
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1684
Loc: Denmark
Some scientists think this will make us understand the universe better.

What do you people think?

I'm asking both scientists, and non-scientists in this forum.

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#412342 - 02/13/10 06:14 AM Re: Big Bang Machine! [Re: LightAngel]
JanusFaust Offline


Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 20
Assuming we're speaking of the Large Hadron Collider at Cern in Geneva;

If I may, Magister (if I recall correctly) Harris had a lovely "Satanism Today" podcast on this featuring soundclips of Stephen Hawking on the Large Hadron Collider.

As for my non-scientist point of view;
I believe that if they can trace bits and pieces of the origin of our existence, then I'm all for it.
Who knows, this knowledge might come in handy some day cool

Edit: the podcast can be found at satanism today podcast 9-9-08.
My apologies for the shameless promotion, I can't help being a huge enthusiast of the show.


Edited by JanusFaust (02/13/10 06:17 AM)
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#412343 - 02/13/10 06:20 AM Re: Big Bang Machine! [Re: LightAngel]
Shade Offline
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(Heh, I thought this was going to be some strange addendum to the orgasm thread...)

I think I'd rather understand myself better. Got a machine for that? smile
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#412344 - 02/13/10 06:49 AM Re: Big Bang Machine! [Re: LightAngel]
Quaark Offline

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Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 8867
I know of no scientists who think otherwise. Including a top board member of the project I discussed it with a few weeks ago. And I agree with him completely.

wink
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#412368 - 02/13/10 11:08 AM Re: Big Bang Machine! [Re: LightAngel]
Discipline Offline
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Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
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It is a better usage of funds than bailing out a bank or giving a stimulus package.

I am a bit shaky on the theoretical science in terms of some of the things quantum physicists suggest. But the collider is a feat of engineering and that is worth it all on its own.
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#412372 - 02/13/10 12:21 PM Re: Big Bang Machine! [Re: LightAngel]
NapalmNick Offline
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Registered: 08/23/08
Posts: 2153
Even though I knew exactly what this was about when I read the title, I couldn't help but think of a gigantic orgy robot.

And Hadron Collider doesn't look much better. grin

Personally, physics was always easier for me to understand than say, chemistry. Don't ask why. But quantum physics makes my brain start to feel unnaturally warm.

But I'm definitely down for understanding more about the universe. The more I understand about the objective universe the more I understand how it applies to my subjective universe. The root of all wisdom.

And the great thing about science is that it has no ego to bruise when it makes a boo-boo. Like a chain-mail suit, finding a weak link only allows you to fix it. wink

So in short, I am simply amazed when it comes to this stuff, and what it represents about the absolute best aspects of our species.
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#412374 - 02/13/10 02:44 PM Re: Big Bang Machine! [Re: NapalmNick]
reprobate Offline

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Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Quote:
Personally, physics was always easier for me to understand than say, chemistry. Don't ask why. But quantum physics makes my brain start to feel unnaturally warm.

Einstein made me mental. The "laymen's versions" don't even begin to give a sense of how truly weird relativity is.
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#412376 - 02/13/10 03:11 PM Re: Big Bang Machine! [Re: reprobate]
M.D. Roche Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 513
Loc: Albany, New York
Well, consider the author:

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#412385 - 02/13/10 04:09 PM Re: Big Bang Machine! [Re: LightAngel]
Bill_M Offline
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Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11560
Loc: New England, USA
Originally Posted By: LightAngel
Some scientists think this will make us understand the universe better.

What do you people think?

The key word here is "better". What I find hilarious are the Christian creationists and the sensationalist journalists who act as if scientists still haven't learned anything about the physical world, and if experiments "fail" then it would somehow prove the existence of deity by default.
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#412389 - 02/13/10 05:06 PM Re: Big Bang Machine! [Re: Bill_M]
JanusFaust Offline


Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 20
Originally Posted By: Bill_M
Originally Posted By: LightAngel
Some scientists think this will make us understand the universe better.

What do you people think?

The key word here is "better". What I find hilarious are the Christian creationists and the sensationalist journalists who act as if scientists still haven't learned anything about the physical world, and if experiments "fail" then it would somehow prove the existence of deity by default.


Agreed, hilarious!
First thought I had after reading your reply to the thread was a strange article I read awhile ago on the Times Online.

A quote from the article:
“It is based on mathematics, but you could explain it by saying that God rather hates Higgs particles and attempts to avoid them.”

Excuse me? How is that explained again?
Hilarious theory!
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Vi veri universum vivus vici
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#412398 - 02/13/10 06:28 PM Re: Big Bang Machine! [Re: NapalmNick]
Discipline Offline
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Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
Chemistry tends to be less mathematically heavy. Quantum physics requires partial differential equations and understanding wave functions.

Qualitatively quantum physics is a bit easier to follow than when examined quantitatively and that is saying something.
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#412402 - 02/13/10 06:46 PM Re: Big Bang Machine! [Re: LightAngel]
Poetaster Offline
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Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 2334
Loc: East Coast, USA.
To invoke the old cliché, "knowledge is power".

If the history of science is any indication, the advancement of our (humanity in general) understanding about the universe will undoubtedly contribute to new and exciting research throughout the scientific world at large. To what degree, we'll just have to watch the future unfold.

But personally, the idea of advancing knowledge for knowledge' sake is very attractive to me.
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#412407 - 02/13/10 07:12 PM Re: Big Bang Machine! [Re: LightAngel]
Old_Pig Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3969
Loc: The Deep South
A long as is helps the future creation of a commercially available model, I'm all for it. I could really use a machine that creates the Universe.
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#412554 - 02/15/10 06:47 AM Re: Big Bang Machine! [Re: JanusFaust]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1684
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: JanusFaust




Edit: the podcast can be found at satanism today podcast 9-9-08.
My apologies for the shameless promotion, I can't help being a huge enthusiast of the show.


He he thank you jack

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#412561 - 02/15/10 08:20 AM Re: Big Bang Machine! [Re: LightAngel]
JanusFaust Offline


Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 20
Originally Posted By: LightAngel
Originally Posted By: JanusFaust




Edit: the podcast can be found at satanism today podcast 9-9-08.
My apologies for the shameless promotion, I can't help being a huge enthusiast of the show.


He he thank you jack


You're very welcome coopdevil
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Vi veri universum vivus vici
...to what end? VICTORY!

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#412817 - 02/17/10 12:51 AM Re: Big Bang Machine! [Re: JanusFaust]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1684
Loc: Denmark
1 of 5 - The Big Bang Machine


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#412824 - 02/17/10 02:07 AM Re: Big Bang Machine! [Re: M.D. Roche]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1684
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: MALFORM
Well, consider the author:



I love that picture of him jack

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#412844 - 02/17/10 08:13 AM Re: Big Bang Machine! [Re: LightAngel]
Spelled Moon Offline
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Registered: 12/25/08
Posts: 1691
Loc: Germany
Thank you so much for posting this video, it's very enjoyable documentary. smile

I am well aware it's just a touch of the surface of Big Bang Machine topic, but definitely makes me very interested.

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#412845 - 02/17/10 08:29 AM Re: Big Bang Machine! [Re: LightAngel]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
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Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 6999
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Originally Posted By: LightAngel
Some scientists think this will make us understand the universe better.

What do you people think?

I'm asking both scientists, and non-scientists in this forum.


Absolutely! It seems an innate tendency to be curious about "where we came from". This may be a great opportunity to scratch that ancient itch.
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#412940 - 02/17/10 11:50 PM Re: Big Bang Machine! [Re: Spelled Moon]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1684
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: Spelled Moon
Thank you so much for posting this video, it's very enjoyable documentary. smile

I am well aware it's just a touch of the surface of Big Bang Machine topic, but definitely makes me very interested.


I'm glad you enjoyed it, I guess I should have posted the video in the beginning of this topic.

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#413110 - 02/18/10 11:21 PM Re: Big Bang Machine! [Re: Roho_the_Rooster]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1684
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: Roho_the_Rooster
Originally Posted By: LightAngel
Some scientists think this will make us understand the universe better.

What do you people think?

I'm asking both scientists, and non-scientists in this forum.


Absolutely! It seems an innate tendency to be curious about "where we came from". This may be a great opportunity to scratch that ancient itch.


Indeed wink

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#413590 - 02/23/10 12:43 AM LHC Restarts This Week—Half Power But Full of Potential [Re: LightAngel]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1684
Loc: Denmark
The Large Hadron Collider (LHC) is slated to be reawakened Thursday, at the earliest, LHC directors say. The reboot comes after a run at the highest energies yet for any particle accelerator—or atom smasher—and a scheduled winter break.

The Large Hadron Collider will be run at only half power, because equipment upgrades are needed before full-power operation is advisable, LHC scientists decided.

But the LHC should still be capable of some stunning discoveries, experts say—perhaps even the detection of extra dimensions or evidence of the Higgs boson, or "God particle."

Particle accelerators use electric fields to channel particles into extremely narrow, fast-moving beams. (Learn more about atom smashers.)

By colliding some of these beams, the physicists at the Large Hadron Collider hope to recreate the intense conditions just after the big bang and to solve other scientific riddles, such as the nature of dark matter, the invisible material that scientists think makes up most of the universe's mass.

Operated by the European Organization for Nuclear Research (CERN), the Large Hadron Collider is housed in an oval-shaped, 7-mile-long (27-kilometer-long) tunnel beneath the French-Swiss border.



Large Hadron Collider: On Again, Off Again

After more than a year of repairs to fix electrical malfunctions that occurred during its initial run in September 2008, the Large Hadron Collider was restarted in November 2009.

In December scientists obtained the first scientific results from the LHC before a scheduled shutdown to save on electricity costs. (See "LHC Gets First Results; Step Toward 'God Particle'?")

Prior to the December shutdown, the Large Hadron Collider had set a new world record in high-energy physics by accelerating two beams of proton particles to 1.8 tera (trillion) electron volts (TeV) each and smashing them together, for a combined collision energy of 2.36 TeV.

Toward Full LHC Potential

Scientists have even more ambitious plans for the round beginning this week.

The current schedule calls for operating the machine at a level that would result in collisions with the energy of 7 TeV (3.5 TeV per beam) until late 2011 or early 2012.

The Large Hadron Collider will then be shut down once again so superconducting hardware can be upgraded to support collisions of 14 TeV—the Large Hadron Collider's maximum operating energy.

The 2012 rest period should last about a year, though the LHC team is "still looking at the planning of this shutdown, to try to devise ways of reducing its length," said Paul Collier, head of the beams department at CERN.

"God Particle" Proof Possible, Even at Half Power?

Even though the Large Hadron Collider won't be operating at its full potential, there are still plenty of exciting scientific discoveries that could be made, said Dan Green, a particle physicist at Fermilab in Illinois and a member of the Large Hadron Collider's Compact Muon Solenoid experiment.

"The energy increase matters," Green said. "At 7 TeV we open up new physics searches at high masses."

Even at half power, the LHC could yield evidence backing up the theory of supersymmetry, which says all the particles we know have more massive, but as yet undetected, partners, Green said.

The collider, he said, could also uncover "states reflecting large extra dimensions" beyond the three we know: the first (often represented by a line), second (a plane), and third (a cube).

Extra dimensions are predicted by string theory, an unproven concept that suggests that subatomic particles operate like tiny vibrating cords.

Evidence for the Higgs boson, which physicists think is responsible for mass in the universe, might also be found at the Large Hadron Collider's lower energies, Green added.

(Read about the God particle in National Geographic magazine.)

That's a tall order for an apparently delicate machine, but so far the Large Hadron Collider has performed admirably during current systems checks, CERN's Collier said.

"I am very impressed with it," Collier said. "It has already proved to be very stable and reproducible," meaning that LHC-experiment results can be reproduced—a key tenet of the scientific method.

"The evidence is in the speed with which we managed to get the machine up and running for early physics runs" in late 2009.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/02/100222-large-hardron-collider-lhc-restarts-big-bang/

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#413597 - 02/23/10 04:07 AM could a lawsuit shut the LHC down? [Re: LightAngel]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1684
Loc: Denmark
COURTS and legal scholars love quoting legal maxims in Latin. One of the most famous is fiat justitia ruat caelum. The phrase is a resolute affirmation of the rule of law. It means "Let justice be done though the heavens fall".

It was intended as hyperbole. But, ironically, courts may now have to confront these words on literal terms. In various countries, plaintiffs have sought court orders to halt the operation of the Large Hadron Collider at CERN near Geneva, Switzerland, with the most extraordinary of allegations: that the experiment may create a black hole that will devour the Earth.

Up until now, the various lawsuits filed against the LHC have faltered. But if the right kind of claim is filed in the proper court, a judge may soon have to face the question of whether an injunction might be needed to save the world.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20....html?full=true

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