#412586  02/15/10 10:38 AM
Math Concept

CoS Member
Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 785
Loc: Tennessee, U.S.

This is a little something I found interesting. I was at work waiting for further instructions and thought about numbers. I came upon this concept and started playing around with it.
The concept goes like this;
0 = 10 1 = 9 2 = 8 3 = 7 4 = 6 5 = 5 6 = 4 7 = 3 8 = 2 9 = 1 10 = 0
* An example would be the multiplication of 7 in multiplication of 10 would equal to the multiplication of 3.
Like this example;
7 > 10 = 3 14 > 20 = 6 21 > 30 = 9 28 > 40 = 12
etc... You can add or subtract to get the number in between the digits. All the other numbers are resulting in similar fashion. If you add a zero to your ten like 10 into 100, you must add a zero to your single digits. 2 will be 20, 5 will be 50, and so on.
The concept is done by the tens, hundreds, thousands, ten thousands, hundred thousands, millions, ten millions, and all the way up in tens. If you're using the concept in one million, then the single digits of 1  9 will have to be in the hundred thousands place. 0 will always equal to your greatest ten. 0 = 10, 0 = 100, 0 = 1,000, etc.
Try the same concept in other ways like 76 in 106 or something.
76 > 106 = 30 152 > 212 = 60 228 > 318 = 90
The concept is still the same but in the tens place.
What do you think?
I was thinking of sharing this with some of you. It isn't relevant to anything special.
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"Any group or collective, large or small, is only a number of individuals. A group can have no rights other than the rights of its individual members."  Ayn Rand
"Don't mistake my kindness for weakness. I am kind to everyone, but when someone is unkind to me, weak is not what you are going to remember about me."  Al Capone
"Satanism is not a white light religion; it is a religion of the flesh, the mundane, the carnal  all of which are ruled by Satan, the personification of the Left Hand Path."  Magus LaVey "Test Everything, Believe Nothing." 

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#412587  02/15/10 10:44 AM
Re: Math Concept
[Re: LordofDarkness]

Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 20

In a good part of my line of work thoughts like these are quite relevant. It is always an interesting way to encrypt certain data, one way or the other, and could come in quite handy. But I would say this; make it with ascii
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#412588  02/15/10 10:51 AM
Re: Math Concept
[Re: LordofDarkness]

CoS Magister
Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11648
Loc: New England, USA

0 = 10 1 = 9 2 = 8 3 = 7 4 = 6 5 = 5 6 = 4 7 = 3 8 = 2 9 = 1 10 = 0 So in other words, if your original number is n, then your new number is 10n. * An example would be the multiplication of 7 in multiplication of 10 would equal to the multiplication of 3.
Like this example;
7 > 10 = 3 14 > 20 = 6 21 > 30 = 9 28 > 40 = 12
So in other words, the multiples of 7, subtracted from the multiples of 10, give you the multiples of 3. 10m  7m = 3m. I'm not sure what you mean by "You can add or subtract to get the number in between the digits". Try the same concept in other ways like 76 in 106 or something.
76 > 106 = 30 152 > 212 = 60 228 > 318 = 90
Again, this collapses down to the simple algebraic relation 106m  76m = 30m. Am I missing something?
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Reverend Bill M. http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers, New hour every week. Download the mp3 now! http://www.aplaceformystuff.org: Tales of Combat Clutter and other Adventures (Wenn du Google's Übersetzer verwendest, um diese Worte zu lesen, dann bist du ein Arschloch.)

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#412591  02/15/10 11:03 AM
Re: Math Concept
[Re: Bill_M]

CoS Member
Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 785
Loc: Tennessee, U.S.

So in other words, the multiples of 7, subtracted from the multiples of 10, give you the multiples of 3. 10m  7m = 3m. I'm not sure what you mean by "You can add or subtract to get the number in between the digits".
What I meant is that you can subtract 7 from 10 or add from 7 to 10. 10  7 = 3, 7 + 3 = 10 so multiples of 7 > multiples of 10 = multiples of 3. Besides that, yeah I think you're on the right track.
_________________________
"Any group or collective, large or small, is only a number of individuals. A group can have no rights other than the rights of its individual members."  Ayn Rand
"Don't mistake my kindness for weakness. I am kind to everyone, but when someone is unkind to me, weak is not what you are going to remember about me."  Al Capone
"Satanism is not a white light religion; it is a religion of the flesh, the mundane, the carnal  all of which are ruled by Satan, the personification of the Left Hand Path."  Magus LaVey "Test Everything, Believe Nothing." 

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#412594  02/15/10 11:06 AM
Re: Math Concept
[Re: LordofDarkness]

CoS Magister
Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11648
Loc: New England, USA

What I meant is that you can subtract 7 from 10 or add from 7 to 10.
10  7 = 3, 7 + 3 = 10 so multiples of 7 > multiples of 10 = multiples of 3.
Besides that, yeah I think you're on the right track. But 10m  7m = 3m is algebraically equivalent to 7m + 3m = 10m. Maybe I'm missing something, but you just seem to be playing around with what in basic algebra is called the distribute rule, a(b+c) = ab + ac. Not that number playing can't be fun or interesting. But it's also fun to realize why something works, IMO.
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#412597  02/15/10 11:19 AM
Re: Math Concept
[Re: Bill_M]

CoS Member
Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 785
Loc: Tennessee, U.S.

Thats fine. Yeah I was pretty much playing with numbers. What was interesting to me was that if you give a single digit multiples of 1  9 and compare it to the tens place like 6 in 10 you would get the multiples of 4. It would also apply the same if given 6,000 in 10,000. Do the multiplication of both multiples to equal the mulitplication of 4,000. If you even do let's say 7,000,000 in 10,000,000, you would get the multiples of 3,000,000. The concept stays the same regardless what the highest ten is but all other numbers under the highest ten must have an extra 0 to that digit. Like 10  90 in 100, 100  900 in 1,000, etc. What struck me as being most interesting was the fact that you can find the multiples of the digit found in between those numbers. That was basically the idea.
Edited by LordOfDarkness (02/15/10 11:27 AM)
_________________________
"Any group or collective, large or small, is only a number of individuals. A group can have no rights other than the rights of its individual members."  Ayn Rand
"Don't mistake my kindness for weakness. I am kind to everyone, but when someone is unkind to me, weak is not what you are going to remember about me."  Al Capone
"Satanism is not a white light religion; it is a religion of the flesh, the mundane, the carnal  all of which are ruled by Satan, the personification of the Left Hand Path."  Magus LaVey "Test Everything, Believe Nothing." 

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#412599  02/15/10 11:25 AM
Re: Math Concept
[Re: LordofDarkness]

CoS Magister
Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11648
Loc: New England, USA

Yeah I was pretty much playing with numbers. Nothing wrong with that! I do it all the time myself. The concept stays the same regardless what the highest ten is but all other numbers under the highest ten must have an extra 0 to that digit. This is basically the same as multiplying that equation I wrote earlier on either side by 10^n, for some integer n. As long as we're talking about mathematical oddities, here's one of my favorites: 1*1 = 1 11*11 = 121 111*111 = 12321 1111*1111 = 1234321 11111*11111 = 123454321 etc. There's also plenty of stuff out there based around the number 9, reinforcing the point Dr. LaVey made about the number in The Satanic Rituals.
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#412608  02/15/10 12:38 PM
Re: Math Concept
[Re: LordofDarkness]

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 1031
Loc: Washington, DC

I find it a little weird. It is a simple, cryptographic if you will, conversion of numbers, but it looks to treat radix 10 as if it were radix 11. You might find this fun to play with differently.
First, nominate an extra digit:
0 = 0 1 = 1 2 = 2 3 = 3 4 = 4 5 = 5 6 = 6 7 = 7 8 = 8 9 = 9 10 = A
From this, the number 20810 would be 17A11. Zero is still the place holder in this case; 20910 is 18011.
Now, reverse it, as you did in your original cypher:
0 = A 1 = 9 2 = 8 3 = 7 4 = 6 5 = 5 6 = 4 7 = 3 8 = 2 9 = 1 10 = 0
Would 20810 be A71R11? Nope. That would be the same as 71R11, less the insignificant leading A (0). Let's see...
208 / 11 = 18 and 10/11 18 / 11 = 1 and 7/11 1 / 11 = 0 and 1/11
1710 > 930R11
Okay, let me check my work:
0 = 0 1 = 1 2 = 2 3 = 3 4 = 4 5 = 5 6 = 6 7 = 7 8 = 8 9 = 9 10 = A
208 / 11 = 18 and 10/11 18 / 11 = 1 and 7/11 1 / 11 = 0 and 1/11
1710 > 17A11
Then, reverse it:
0 = A 1 = 9 2 = 8 3 = 7 4 = 6 5 = 5 6 = 4 7 = 3 8 = 2 9 = 1 A = 0
17A11 = 930R11
The weird properties of your number game stem from the fact that you are not accounting for the change in radix that you introduced in your cypher. That is why your zeros grow in number faster than they should.

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#412680  02/15/10 08:15 PM
Re: Math Concept
[Re: TheAbysmal]

Registered: 01/19/09
Posts: 128
Loc: Upland

Here's one that's been bothering me for a little while.
If 1=1/1 or 2/2 or 3/3 ...
Then 1=3/3=1/3+1/3+1/3
1/3=.333333...
therefore
1=.999999....
Any explanations for this one guys?
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The Absence of God will bring you comfort.  Jenny Lewis
There is a point in which empirical evidence outweighs your faith. It is then when you must chose to open your eyes, or close them.  Diwanna

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#412686  02/15/10 09:01 PM
Re: Math Concept
[Re: Diwanna]

CoS Magister
Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11648
Loc: New England, USA

1=.999999....
Any explanations for this one guys? That's correct. This argument comes up on Yahoo Answers every now and then, and there are always some people who refuse to believe it. But it's true. "0.999..." (with the nines repeating forever, as denoted by the ellipsis) is exactly equal to 1. Not "approximately", but exactly equal. They're two different ways of writing the same exact value. There are a couple of other different ways to prove this. The simplest explanation is that there simply is no value you can write that falls in between those two numbers, so the two values are the same. These pages give some more explanations: http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/55746.htmlhttp://mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/55748.html
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Reverend Bill M. http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers, New hour every week. Download the mp3 now! http://www.aplaceformystuff.org: Tales of Combat Clutter and other Adventures (Wenn du Google's Übersetzer verwendest, um diese Worte zu lesen, dann bist du ein Arschloch.)

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#412728  02/16/10 08:32 AM
Re: Math Concept
[Re: Bill_M]

Registered: 01/19/09
Posts: 128
Loc: Upland

Math sure is a beautiful, elegant, and complex thing.
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The Absence of God will bring you comfort.  Jenny Lewis
There is a point in which empirical evidence outweighs your faith. It is then when you must chose to open your eyes, or close them.  Diwanna

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#412784  02/16/10 03:45 PM
Re: Math Concept
[Re: Diwanna]

Registered: 10/23/08
Posts: 380
Loc: Cthulhu's Bowels,Kentucky

I always enjoyed how the 9's multiplication table is a mirror of itself after 9x5,meaning you just reverse the numbers and there's your answer 9x1=09 9x2=18 9x3=27 9x4=36 9x5=45 9x6=54 9x7=63 9x8=72 9x9=81 9x10=90
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#412788  02/16/10 04:18 PM
Re: Math Concept
[Re: ArtAche86]

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 1031
Loc: Washington, DC

And, that if you add the digits of those multiples, the sum is 9. That property can be used to interesting effect.
Ask someone to give you a five digit number. Suppose he or she gives you 34769. Then, you tell them you are going to predict the sum of that number and four other numbers, writing down 234768 without him or her seeing it.
Then ask for another number. Suppose he or she gives 72231. The tally would appear as such:
34769 72231
And, you quickly add to the tally, 27768:
34769 72231 27768
Then ask for another. Suppose it is 40129:
34769 72231 27768 40129
And, you quickly add to the tally...
34769 72231 27768 40129 59871
Add them up, and you get 234768. This impresses the hell out of kids at least, but all you did was take the first number given, subtract 1 from the least significant digit, and add 2 as the most significant digit. Then, for each additional number you asked from your party, you quickly wrote down its nine's complement. Add them up, and it appears that you either used magic or you are much faster at adding than most people.
It can work with any number of digits, too, though the trick is easiest to do with all numbers being the same amount of digits.

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#412913  02/17/10 06:13 PM
Re: Math Concept
[Re: Machismo]

CoS Warlock
Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7141
Loc: Canada

This is just a quirky function of our base10 number system. It happens in any placevalue notation of base n for the multiples of n1.
Also, if you take the digits of multiples of n1 and add them together, and add the digits of the result together, and keep adding digits until you have a 1digit number, it will be n1.
Eg. In a decimal notation, n1 is 9. 9x3=27, 2+7=9 9x11=99, 9+9=18, 1+8=9 9x987=8,883, 8+8+8+3=27, 2+7=9
In a hexadecimal (base 16) notation, n1 is F (in hexadecimal; "15" in decimal). Fx3=2D, 2+D=F Fx11=FF, F+F=1E, 1+E=F ("11" in hexadecimal is decimal "17") Fx3DB=3,9D5, 3+9+D+5=1E, 1+E=F
In binary (base 2), n1 is 1. So this works for any number at all. 10, 1+0=1 11,010,101; 1+1+0+1+0+1+0+1=101, 1+0+1=10, 1+0=1. etc.
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#412984  02/18/10 09:13 AM
Re: Math Concept
[Re: Bill_M]

CoS Magister
Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11648
Loc: New England, USA

I found this clock online, which has each number expressed with 3 nines: Not surprisingly, there were idiots getting into the whole 0.999... (repeating) = 1 debate, because it uses that to mark Seven. Again, there's no debate. When the nines are going off to infinity, the value is exactly equal to 1. A lot of the people who were debating otherwise were, also not surprisingly, computer programmers. They're an example of people who erroneously think of "infinity" as actual number. It isn't. There is no "last" or "infinities" place in the decimal. Fortunately there were others setting them straight. Regardless, I think it's a cool clock.
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#412987  02/18/10 09:22 AM
Re: Math Concept
[Re: reprobate]

CoS Magister
Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11648
Loc: New England, USA

Also, if you take the digits of multiples of n1 and add them together, and add the digits of the result together, and keep adding digits until you have a 1digit number, it will be n1. Speaking of modulus arithmetic, in numerology there's the common practice of adding up the numbers corresponding to a person's name, then adding the digits of the result together, and repeating until you wind up with a single digit. Mystics still go through all of this, when all they really have to do is just divide the original number by 9 and take the remainder (or if it's 0, set the result to 9). But...don't tell them that! Multiples of 9 are also the underlying reason why this old online mindreading trick works: http://www.bored.com/mysticalball/index.htm
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Reverend Bill M. http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers, New hour every week. Download the mp3 now! http://www.aplaceformystuff.org: Tales of Combat Clutter and other Adventures (Wenn du Google's Übersetzer verwendest, um diese Worte zu lesen, dann bist du ein Arschloch.)

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#413168  02/19/10 02:21 AM
Re: Math Concept
[Re: Bill_M]

CoS Magister
Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11648
Loc: New England, USA

And now, for some REALLY misleading math with the number 9:
Attachments
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Reverend Bill M. http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers, New hour every week. Download the mp3 now! http://www.aplaceformystuff.org: Tales of Combat Clutter and other Adventures (Wenn du Google's Übersetzer verwendest, um diese Worte zu lesen, dann bist du ein Arschloch.)

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#413246  02/19/10 07:11 PM
Re: Math Concept
[Re: Bill_M]

Registered: 01/19/09
Posts: 128
Loc: Upland

And now, for some REALLY misleading math with the number 9:
I believe that they can get in trouble from the Dept. of Weights and Measures for that sign. If the original price was $29.99 and they are saving $9, then the item would cost $38.99 not $39.98. That is a $300 fine by the DofW&M in San Bernardino County. They better fix it quick.
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The Absence of God will bring you comfort.  Jenny Lewis
There is a point in which empirical evidence outweighs your faith. It is then when you must chose to open your eyes, or close them.  Diwanna

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#413253  02/19/10 08:00 PM
Re: Math Concept
[Re: Bill_M]

Banned
Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 513
Loc: Albany, New York

That definitely belongs on failblog.
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