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The Key to Happiness? #414753
03/05/10 08:15 AM
03/05/10 08:15 AM
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Recently I have checked out the book titled How I found Freedom In An Unfree World and I have been enjoying it immensely. One trap Harry Browne discusses is "the identity trap". The two basic identity traps are:

1.) You attempt to be someone you are not.
2.) You fall into the belief that everyone will have the same attitude, thoughts, and feelings you have.

Obviously from the first identity trap it is important to understand you are who you are. When you attempt to be someone or something you are not you by right relinquish the freedom your identity has. An example would be the ever so annoying pseudo-satanists who come here and claim to be Satanists. Yet when politely pointed out that they are not Satanists because of A. B. and C. they get bent out of shape and leave a mess behind. So now they are frustrated and so they therefor sacrificed their happiness for a label they can't afford: Satanist.

Obviously the situations vary depending upon the individual. I have found myself caught in the identity trap on numerous occasions. But with will and practice you can get out of it.

The antidote I have found useful is that to accept you are who you are and that nothing will change that. Most people hate themselves but thankfully I don't. The ironic thing is people hate who they are and yet can't be anyone different. So they relinquish their freedom of choosing to change their actions to make life better so perhaps they will learn to love themselves.

The second identity trap can obviously cause a lot of useless frustration for a person. I have learned through application that people are who they are. That they may or may not decide to change their actions. Utilizing Lesser Magic can help but even that works best in accordance with a persons nature and not against it.

An example would be the loud and noisy neighbor. You can complain, talk to them until you're blue in the face, and get angry with no results. Or you can accept their nature and understand they will do as they do and buy earplugs. Thus saving yourself time and energy.

Anyways what are your thoughts about the identity traps mentioned? Do you agree or disagree?




Last edited by Unknown; 03/05/10 08:21 AM.









Re: The Key to Happiness? [Re: Unknown] #414769
03/05/10 09:35 AM
03/05/10 09:35 AM
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Peoples' personalities are complex things that develop and are informed by various stimuli, both internal and external. But yes, at a certain point people become predictable, and start to fill in a "mold" as it were. This holds true for everyone, including those with seemingly eclectic personalities.

Satanism encourages self-exploration; some of the most rewarding experiences in my life have come as a result of knowing what I am not. If you're going to be your own God, it helps to know how to make yourself happy. wink

Solipsism can be a problem. I've never met another Satanist in person, but even from online exchanges such as LttD it is more than apparent that within the Satanic "genome" there is a distinct trait for having strong personalities. A strong personality coupled with a strong ego can oftentimes breed certain expectations of others that might not be fair.

This is not to say Satanists should not have high standards. One thing I have learned is that looking through a jaded lens can seriously muck up your Lesser Magic.

Something I've just realized is that this sounds kind of preachy, so I want to make it clear that I'm speaking solely on my behalf, and not that of the CoS.


"Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris; not the end." --Leonard Nimoy as Captain Spock in The Undiscovered Country

"May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house." --George Carlin, Playin' With Your Head

"[There is] no contradiction between saying 'evolution has no purpose' and 'organisms have purposes'; just different vocabularies for different levels of description." --Sean Carroll
Re: The Key to Happiness? [Re: Unknown] #414805
03/05/10 09:07 PM
03/05/10 09:07 PM
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It's much harder to be happy than you think.
Hence the vast misanthropy.

I don't find it to be as simple as the Tao perspective of just go around the problem. One must be clever enough to work through it, but to ultimately maintain ones happiness in constant flow, is impossible, there has to be an ebb.

You need to know what you don't like and what you are not, to understand what you like, want, and who you are. Things you've never seen, done, or used before must be tried to know weather or not you like them or if it makes you happy.

The attempt to understand,allows us to set standards. Like children when seeing something for the 1st time, immerse yourself in it. When it starts to hurt stop. See stupidity is painful and it's stupid to keep going. A lot of people don't understand that sadness and emotional pain is a bodily cue to keep them from harm.

I agree with...
Originally Posted By: Unknown
pseudo-satanists who come here and claim to be Satanists. Yet when politely pointed out that they are not Satanists because of A. B. and C. they get bent out of shape and leave a mess behind. So now they are frustrated and so they therefor sacrificed their happiness for a label they can't afford: Satanist.

But if they don't try how will they know? If there is no comparison, standard, or set rule to govern the cause, they'd make it up as they go along.
The COS stands to prevent this from happening and keep these things in check for the preservation of Dr. LaVey's ideal.


To the 1st point...
Originally Posted By: Unknown
1.) You attempt to be someone you are not.

my view is this...
We are all Unknown to our selves till we make an attempt to be someone or something. Staying stuck, unable to change when something isn't working is what causes the misery. However somethings are just minor set back and working through them reaps great reward.
Example: I'm no (insert passion here)actor but given the right stage I could be. I try my friends say I'm great. This equals happiness. I then try to "Take It To The Next Level" where for months I'm miserable or lacking the attainment of my goal, but given the right opportunity and pow happy again.
It's Knowing when to let go, throw in the towel, or push on that counts. Hold'em or Fold'em.

Most people here would have a better understanding of attaining that goal with as little grief as possible but that come with practice, experience, time, patients, and "Cunning". It never just happens without a hitch. You need to be intelligent enough to over come any obstical. Don't ever expect it to be so easy as avoidance.

My view on the 2nd point
Originally Posted By: Unknown
2.) You fall into the belief that everyone will have the same attitude, thoughts, and feelings you have.

is this ...
That's solipsism at it's finest. However it is also the way the world works. People gravitate toward those of a like minded perspective. We are cellular beings and cells attract to those of the same type.

I don't think people actually do this in extreme. I think it has varying degrees. We all do it or have done it to connect with other people. You wouldn't marry someone who wasn't on your side. They'd have to relate to you in some way.

Having the belief in a positive perspective that when approached by the herd that you can relate to them in some fashion isn't a half bad Lesser-Magic skill to have.
Just don't fall victim to assuming it works in all areas, with every one, or both way.
It's the best defense to know your enemy but don't assume. Let them make this assumption about you.

The only problem this posses is when the closed mindedness sets in. The other persons disagreeing opinion becomes to much to bear and they can't understand the point.
Every one wants to be agreed with, they all want to be right, and they all want to be loved for it. People given the right circumstances are easy to play. Just don't get sucked in or caught and don't ever expect them to understand or "get" you. That's solipstical, and I don't think it's possible when your walking on the left hand path.


"...And the truth that makes us laugh, will make you cry!"
"...Porcelain in a paper cup world."
~Almost Alice~
Re: The Key to Happiness? [Re: I'mPerfecting] #414815
03/06/10 01:07 AM
03/06/10 01:07 AM
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Thank you for your response.

You have some very well thought out points.

I'd like to ask you a few questions if I may.

Quote:
It's much harder to be happy than you think.


Happiness is only as easy as you want it to be. If you THINK it is difficult then it will be. So just because you have a hard time being happy doesn't mean I do. Some people just can't stand not being miserable.

Quote:
I don't find it to be as simple as the Tao perspective of just go around the problem. One must be clever enough to work through it, but to ultimately maintain ones happiness in constant flow, is impossible, there has to be an ebb.


Well I agree that each problem must be dealt with accordingly. Yet if something works then why not use it? Sometimes the problems are bigger in our heads than they have to be.

Quote:
Things you've never seen, done, or used before must be tried to know weather or not you like them or if it makes you happy.


Well it all depends on what those things are.

For example I have no need to do crack or weed to know I do not like it. I can base my judgment from what I see of others. A crackhead hardly looks healthy. So my question is do you hold the perspective that the only way to make a valid judgment is through the experience of actually "doing" something?

Quote:
But if they don't try how will they know? If there is no comparison, standard, or set rule to govern the cause, they'd make it up as they go along.
The COS stands to prevent this from happening and keep these things in check for the preservation of Dr. LaVey's ideal.


Agreed.

The identity trap is placed when after they read THE SATANIC BIBLE and it is evident they are NOT Satanists then trying is useless. One does not try to be a Satanist, one is or is not a Satanist. Magister Paradise once said "to try is to lie". The results are what count.

Quote:
Most people here would have a better understanding of attaining that goal with as little grief as possible but that come with practice, experience, time, patients, and "Cunning". It never just happens without a hitch. You need to be intelligent enough to over come any obstical. Don't ever expect it to be so easy as avoidance.


I think you are taking my one example and casting a net over all issues. Obviously each issue must be dealt with accordingly. I am not for mere passivity but I also think being proactive means getting through issues without sacrificing ones happiness. When you make the effort to change a situation because you are not happy it is completely counter-productive to make yourself unhappier in the process of trying to make oneself happy to begin with. Sometimes it is better to change your own world rather than trying to change everyone else in it.

I refuse to relinquish my self-control in the face of others. Obviously specific things warrant anger but 99.9% of the time they don't. Dr. Ellis has proven it.

So I agree somethings are far easier to overcome than others. The key is to not relinquish your happiness in the face of them. Remember Anton LaVey spoke about turning his anger into joy so that his enemies could not get the satisfaction of making him angry? Not always as easy to do but once you can do this life becomes much simpler.



Last edited by Unknown; 03/06/10 01:59 AM. Reason: Added thought about the use of mentality.









Re: The Key to Happiness? [Re: Unknown] #414816
03/06/10 01:30 AM
03/06/10 01:30 AM
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Quaark Offline

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Originally Posted By: Unknown
How I found Freedom In An Unfree World


One of the best books ever written and has my highest possible seal of approval and recommendation.

Re: The Key to Happiness? [Re: Quaark] #414818
03/06/10 01:39 AM
03/06/10 01:39 AM
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Most definitely.

My only regret is that I didn't read it sooner.










Re: The Key to Happiness? [Re: Unknown] #414819
03/06/10 01:56 AM
03/06/10 01:56 AM
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I read this and felt it applied to the identity trasps mentioned quite nicely.

From Magister Sass's essay titled The Church of Satan and People:

Here is the Problem:

ANYONE can go into a bookstore, buy copies of Dr. LaVey’s books, dress the part complete with Baphomet do-dads, parrot quotes, and act like an obnoxious moron. Instant “big shot.”

What I have never quite understood, because I have never experienced it personally, is the degree of insecurity in which a person does not feel confident in their own identity until a second party has explicitly recognized it.

How many people (not just naïve teenagers, but adults too) have you met who introduce themselves immediately asserting “I am a wiccan,” “I am a healer,” “I am a shaman,” or “I am a satanist?” – or are bedecked with t-shirts, slogans, logos, signs and symbols explicitly announcing their chosen identity prop.

I have never really understood this urge to inflict yourself and your self-imposed label on others, or the need for almost constant recognition and re-affirmation of your self-appointed label, and I believe it is at the root of many problems, including the most troublesome “side-effect” aspects of the need to congregate under the auspices of any religion or any other ideology. It is the most superficial and needy motivation, and usually the earmark of psychic vampires.










Re: The Key to Happiness? [Re: Unknown] #414844
03/06/10 06:27 AM
03/06/10 06:27 AM

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Originally Posted By: Unknown
1.) You attempt to be someone you are not.
2.) You fall into the belief that everyone will have the same attitude, thoughts, and feelings you have.


I agree these are quite real traps.

With the second point, some people wouldn't lose enthusiasm and would try to change people around them.

In Slovakia, we've saying for that: "You won't teach old horse to new tricks".

Re: The Key to Happiness? [Re: Unknown] #414888
03/06/10 04:35 PM
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Srikumar Rao says in order to be happy we have to break free of the "I'd be happy if ..." mental model.



One life. Live it.
Re: The Key to Happiness? [Re: Unknown] #415009
03/07/10 05:38 PM
03/07/10 05:38 PM
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This book sounds interesting, I may have to give it a go, but if I may comment on your interpretation of the first trap. I believe it is possible to understand who you are and not necessarily relinquish your freedom of identity as you put it, but merely abbreviate who you are and what you represent. I work in an environment where it is beneficial for me to take on several personas so as to be more accepted by clientele. In fact it ensures happiness and profitability for me to be such a chameleon. It is true that when dealing with my customers I often times find myself silently stating in my own mind- “if these people only knew who I really am!”, but as long as I know, who really cares? Some people can pull off such a task, and others simply cannot. (Lol, no wonder so many tell me I should be in politics!) I always will stay true to my core beliefs, as this is what helps me to understand and react to others in a justified means. It may require that I have to step slightly outside my comfort zone, if you will, but I don’t think that translates to me not being aware of who I am nor does it mean that I have forfeited my freedom.

I agree fully with your antidote and your interpretation of the second trap. I find it to be most insightful and true!


"When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear, and life stands explained"
-Mark Twain

My excess of sin, is proof that I exist...Demetra
Re: The Key to Happiness? [Re: Demetra] #415044
03/07/10 11:33 PM
03/07/10 11:33 PM
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I actually agree.

The first identity trap (trying to be someone or something you are not) would be set into place when you begin to confuse who you ARE with what you DO. The two are separate factors altogether. When people confuse with who they are with what they do they limit themselves from taking upon the chameleon and blending in as you said.

So we are initially agreeing but don't confuse with what you do with who you are.

Also you can only DO what you know how. When people make an effort to do something but with not knowing how they realize they can obtain information of HOW to do it. But if they are incapable because of their limitations (yes equality is a myth ladies and gentleman)and yet still make the effort to then they become frustrated, depressed, or even angry. They put their worth into what they can do hence why suicides happen sometimes.

When one makes the mistake of giving themselves more potential than what they actually have they fall under the Satanic Sins of self-deceit, pretentiousness, counter-productive pride, lack of perspective, and lack of aesthetics. The implications as to why should be most obvious.

The Satanic Witch explains in no small amount of detail as to why working in accordance with your nature rather than against it is fundamental to Satanism.

So to me the main point of Satanism is to have fun and enjoy life. One additional pertinent chapter I'd recommend is The Purpose of Life in The Fire From Within: Nemo on Satanism by Magister Nemo.










Re: The Key to Happiness? [Re: Unknown] #419247
04/21/10 07:45 PM
04/21/10 07:45 PM
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Sorry I've been busy and could not have responded sooner.
Originally Posted By: Unknown
Happiness is only as easy as you want it to be. If you THINK it is difficult then it will be. So just because you have a hard time being happy doesn't mean I do. Some people just can't stand not being miserable.

True, life is what you make of it. What you think will come to pass, if you think it's difficult then it will be. I know many a person who only have one miserable note. Please don't regard me in the same category. I was posting in vague observations of society, not in personalized terms.

I just think a lot of this is easier said than done. Though I find it easy to make proverbial lemonade. I don't find it so easy to sweep up the mess after the proverbial bomb is drop. Both depend on the situation and we are not speaking of any specific one.I'm not the type to reveal in misery, unless of course it's someone else for my pleasure. I'm just being real about it. Unless of course you'd prefer the illusion of my Disney self (the constantly happy, nothings ever wrong, happiest place on earth, mask)crossbones

Originally Posted By: Unknown
... if something works then why not use it? Sometimes the problems are bigger in our heads than they have to be.

Because sometimes... there not just in our heads and try as you might, to wish that was the case, sometimes it really is so bad you wish it was just in your head. If it's the first time you've ever had to deal with a problem like this..The usual application of dealing with problems doesn't necessarily apply to help this situation. You have to learn a new trick or two. {For example... Moving cross country, out of the comfort zone of your home state for the first time with the love of your life... Only to be left for the bottle and bar whores, penniless and alone..} A first time for every thing. The term grin and bear it comes to mind when the idea of how to coup is breached. Sometimes it's not that simple when the emotion come in to play and someone rips out your heart. Of course such things at first always feel like the end of the world. No matter how many times you tell yourself living well is the best revenge, or your better than him, he's not worth it.
The truth is you loved him enough to hate him and worth your time or not it hurts so much you can't see straight. You now need to rethink your whole game. (I use "you" in the general sense because really I mean "I" but for the sake of this example as hypothetical, I'm omitting my personal connection.)


Quote:
Things you've never seen, done, or used before must be tried to know weather or not you like them or if it makes you happy.

Originally Posted By: Unknown
Well it all depends on what those things are.

Agreed smile
I find in trying to be vague, it left the door wide open for this..
Originally Posted By: Unknown
So my question is do you hold the perspective that the only way to make a valid judgment is through the experience of actually "doing" something?

No, I don't think that about everything like drugs or being a homeless bum. I do agree there are to many mistakes to make them all your self, so learn from the examples of others. However I did have something else in mind entirely when I said it.
I meant it in the "don't knock it till you've tried it" kinda way. Most people down on things before knowing anything about them. I wasn't trying to say "run out and try crack." I meant it as " the things you take an interest in.." you should delve into, research, and apply. There's no harm in the acquisition of knowledge. Just don't call your self a race car driver if you've never been to the track, but by all means indulge the interest, it's what builds passion.
Originally Posted By: Unknown
The identity trap is placed when after they read THE SATANIC BIBLE and it is evident they are NOT Satanists then trying is useless. One does not try to be a Satanist..

However they still need to come here to prove it. By getting the verbal equivalent of a beat down from the COS just to make good and sure. It's because in testing those boundaries they have to know the wall is there. If it isn't they'll run rampant with their desire for it, because of how badly they want to fit the image of it. With Satanism we're lucky because the COS provides the preventative measure of regulations to prevent that from happening.

If most people kept there mouths shut Satanist or not they could join no problem.
I guess that not what there after though to feed the glass ego. They need it to be confirmed. The LTTD is the most obvious place for that..They can just can't help but to commune with the devil for that answer.smile
Originally Posted By: Unknown
I think you are taking my one example and casting a net over all issues. Obviously each issue must be dealt with accordingly. I am not for mere passivity but I also think being proactive means getting through issues without sacrificing ones happiness. When you make the effort to change a situation because you are not happy it is completely counter-productive to make yourself unhappier in the process of trying to make oneself happy to begin with. Sometimes it is better to change your own world rather than trying to change everyone else in it.

Yes, I suppose I was. However sometimes when it comes to the better of two evils there's no happiness to be had you do what you have to do and move on. I find some choices hurt no matter what you do prevent it. All you can do is weather the storm. In the long run, I do agree I would not sacrifice my own happiness when place in such a position, to have to make such tough decisions in life.
Originally Posted By: Unknown
So I agree somethings are far easier to overcome than others. The key is to not relinquish your happiness in the face of them. Remember Anton LaVey spoke about turning his anger into joy so that his enemies could not get the satisfaction of making him angry? Not always as easy to do but once you can do this life becomes much simpler.

Thanks, that's good advice to keep in mind. Sorry if it got off topic I was responding to the conversation. I know it's late but life happens. I've also pick up that book it's a very interesting read.


"...And the truth that makes us laugh, will make you cry!"
"...Porcelain in a paper cup world."
~Almost Alice~

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