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#425452 - 07/01/10 11:59 AM Serial Killers
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1672
Loc: Denmark
These days I study serial killers, I read, I look at videos at YouTube etc.

And why?! - Well they are my opposite, I believe in life, I would never kill unless it was self-defence, or for survival.

So these people are ''alien'' to me, I need to learn about their psychology.

- They all had a bad childhood and they all have a lack of sympathy, they seem unfeeling to the pain they create.

Many people have a bad childhood, but they don't become serial killers or psychopaths, so WHAT makes them ''different''?!

I need answers, I need more knowledge. They all look insane to me except Richard Kuklinski, I don't agree with his ways, but I don't find him insane like Ted Bundy and many of the others.


Here are some of the Serial Killers I study these days:

Richard Franklin Speck - Part 1/5



Jeffrey Dahmer Part 1/5



John Wayne Gacy - Part 1/5



Richard Kuklinski 'The iceman' Part 1 of 12


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#425453 - 07/01/10 12:15 PM Re: Serial Killers [Re: LightAngel]
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 10561
Loc: England
If you haven't already read it, a book I would recommend is: Talking with Serial Killers by Christopher Berry-Dee.

I believe there is also a second book of interviews now. Many of the killers interviewed in the first book have now met their end. Either in the electric chair or from illness whilst on death row.
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#425456 - 07/01/10 12:31 PM Re: Serial Killers [Re: Drake_Bamboozle]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1672
Loc: Denmark
No, I didn't read it yet.

So thank you for the recommendation.

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#425458 - 07/01/10 01:35 PM Re: Serial Killers [Re: LightAngel]
The_Lightning Offline


Registered: 05/21/06
Posts: 1325
Loc: Israel

Gosh, I've just finished a test in psychopathology...
"What makes people mentally ill" is a million dollar question. Nobody can predict human behavior.

As far as I've learned, Anti-Social Personality Disorder is only somewhat genetic. However it seems that they have some unknown neurological defectiveness that makes them "emotionally retarded". They seem to be stuck in infancy as far as inhibitions and moral development goes, and they seem unable to get emotional satisfaction from normal activity.

Other than that, nurture is always a big factor, of course. It's not hard to completely fuck up a person who already has a strong predisposition to anti-social behavior.
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#425460 - 07/01/10 02:00 PM Re: Serial Killers [Re: LightAngel]
verszou Offline



Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 1812
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: LightAngel
These days I study serial killers, I read, I look at videos at YouTube etc.


Have you read this book ? I read it some years ago when I had my own fascination with serial killers.

He identifies several types and some of the differences in their MO. He also briefly towards the end mentions how he ended up talking to Thomas Harris and how "Silence of the Lambs" differed from his way of doing things.

My own interest in the subject came from the Hannibal Lecter character and the Scarpetta novels by Patricia Cromwell, and I was fascinated by the apparently superior minds, combined with a lack of the normal inhibitors that keep us from doing things like that.

One item that might interest you also is an interview by a psychologist with a mafia hitman. The title escapes me at the moment, but I'll try to see if I can find it. The interesting part for me was at the end, where he turns things around and asks this man who has killed without remorse for years and years while being a normal family father if he has something he would like to ask.

The hitman asks what the psychologist thinks of him, and in a very calm well thought out statement he explains how there are certain personality types that have a certain reaction to danger, where the fear impulse that people would normally have does not get activated. If stimulated in a positive way, these people may go on to become racecar drivers or fighter pilots, because they can handle situations where the rest of us would say "Oh fuck, this is gonna kill me". But if stimulated the wrong way they might end up doing horrible things without the fear that the rest of us would feel, as in "what have I done? The cops will be on my tail now!".

I was very fascinated by how this extremely violent man, who had fed people to rats and disposed of bodies without any qualm just sits there, listens and towards the end sort of nods his head like he is saying "That sounds about right".
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#425500 - 07/01/10 09:26 PM Re: Serial Killers [Re: LightAngel]
Witch_Scarlet Offline

CoS Witch

Registered: 01/09/06
Posts: 787
Loc: Texas
Actually, most serial killers are not "insane" they are perfectly normal in almost every respect, by todays standards at any rate. They just have this one little quirk if you will. Get passed the fact that they kill and you have just your average Joe.

There is no set pattern to their lives, some come from "good" homes, mom, dad, good student, had friends, enjoyed life, some come from broken homes, occasionally from abusive homes but that is in truth the rarity rather than the norm. Many become obsessed with porn and almost all male serial killers are very close to their mothers, and a great many of them have no idea why they do what they do. Much like urges that all people have, killing for most serial killers is an urge they cannot or choose not to control, nor for the most part, understand.

It is this fact, that they cannot be pigeoned holed that makes them so fascinating for many people, women in particular.

As a profiler you learn very quickly that any one, from any where, any walk of life can be a serial killer, or just a normal every day killer for that matter. I am always amazed at how often serial killers, and those who become enamored of them do not fit any type of mold, no matter how hard society tries to shove them into one.

The study of serial killers is a work of art, you can spend a lifetime doing it, changing it, recreating it, using one method after another and much like an unfinished piece of art, there is a good chance you will never complete it. I have been doing it privately and professionally off and on for almost 30 years now.

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#425509 - 07/01/10 10:46 PM Re: Serial Killers [Re: verszou]
Old_Pig Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3968
Loc: The Deep South
That must be Richard "Iceman" Kuklinski. His interview is one of the creepiest and at the same time the most enlightening documentaries I have seen. The scariest thing about him is how completely calm and even proud he looks while talking about his murders. In one case he talks of how he killed a random stranger just to test if the crossbow he had bought was powerful enough to drive an arrow through a human skull.
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#425518 - 07/01/10 11:59 PM Re: Serial Killers [Re: Old_Pig]
verszou Offline



Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 1812
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: Old_Pig
That must be Richard "Iceman" Kuklinski. His interview is one of the creepiest and at the same time the most enlightening documentaries I have seen.


Yes, exactly. Thank you for saving me the trouble of going through the dusty corners of my brain smile
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While having never invented a sin, I'm trying to perfect several.

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#425541 - 07/02/10 04:57 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: LightAngel]
Shade Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/08/06
Posts: 6133
Loc: A Trailer Park
Originally Posted By: LightAngel
... so WHAT makes them ''different''?!


Boy, isn’t that the Holy Grail? Why serial killers are the way they are is such a conundrum I’m immediately suspicious of anyone who says they have the answer. There doesn’t seem to be any reliable formula. A real stubbed-toe source of frustration for me but may (partly) explain my appetite for the subject. I like puzzles.

I get extremely uncomfortable with generalizations about their character/psychology though. The “lack of empathy” thing for instance -- dehumanizing their victims -- seems eerily similar to the compartmentalization necessary for laudable members of society like soldiers and doctors.

I’ve quoted it a few times but one of my favorite books is The Gates of Janus by Ian Brady. Beyond the fact that it's a great example of egomania, I think he brings up some interesting points worth consideration. Delves into pretty taboo territory while exploring the “why” question. Most notably perhaps that “normal” people may not be as different from “abnormal” as they'd like to think.

Quote:
I offer this to illustrate further that there is no great gap between the law-abiding and the criminal. It is man's expedient or delusional nature to parade lack of omnipotent power as innate virtue, well knowing the latter formed no motivational part of his thoughts or emotions at the moment of resentful revenge.


And...

Quote:
Can there by any objective doubt, in those of you wisely conversant with the wiles and ways of human nature and man's infinite capacity to rationalize every atrocity there is, that the main psychological reason why most people do not pray to the Prince of Darkness, had they robust spirit to do so, is that it would be tantamount to worshiping themselves, thus confirming a nature they would piously deny?


Maybe this is the real appeal of the subject, of trying to decipher serial killers. Learning more about them, of those we consider unlike us, teaches us more about ourselves. I don't know. I just get this funny feeling like the reason we don't have answers is because we're not asking the right questions.

Anyway. A few other book recommendations:

Final Truth: The Autobiography of a Serial Killer, Donald Gaskins & Wilton Earle (about Pee Wee Gaskins)
Panzram: A Journal of Murder, Thomas Gaddis
Fiend: The Shocking True Story of America’s Youngest Serial Killer, Harold Schechter (about Jesse Pomeroy)

And for an overview, Colin Wilson’s History of Murder
_________________________
"What happens in the shadow, in the grey regions, also interests us – all that is elusive and fugitive, all that can be said in those beautiful half tones, or in whispers, in deep shade." ~ The Brothers Quay

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#425554 - 07/02/10 07:48 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: Witch_Scarlet]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 6999
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
I was not going to respond to this post, because I am well aware of how my personal views can be misconstrued; but, since it seems others have views similar to mine, I think it will be okay to show the tip of the iceburg...at least in this part of the forum.

Why is it difficult for most to get that, for a person society deems "normal" (whatever the Hell that means), comitting an act that breaks a major taboo simply because they want to would give someone a temporary feeling of omnipotence? And lest someone parrots the adage, "I could not live with myself if I killed an innocent person"...bull shit. What they would find it difficult is that they did something that they feel uncomfortable about. It would not, in my opinion, be any real distress about the actual life lost. The difference may seem unimportant; but, the distress would be about them, and how they feel...not the actual life lost. So, would the problem be that a life was lost, or that they did not live up to an ideal?

I fully understand that the above should be cleaned up some, but the conversation would be too long to put in a post. Bottom line...other than the fact that these people broke a particular taboo, they are probably pretty much like all the other twerps walking around. They are one hit wonders...okay...serial hit wonders. If people saw them that way, it would make them uncomfortable about themselves. Accept for those of us here who find them interesting...we're different. grin

I also wonder if part of the thrill of reading about serial killers is that we are, by not being repelled by them, breaking a taboo. Kind of like enjoying seeing pictures of dead people...or people having sex. Society outwordly frowns on these things.
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#425562 - 07/02/10 09:13 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: The_Lightning]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1672
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: The_Lightning

Gosh, I've just finished a test in psychopathology...
"What makes people mentally ill" is a million dollar question. Nobody can predict human behavior.



Thank you all for sharing your thoughts inside this topic.

There's so much to analyse and study here. I just saw this program, and I find it very informative!


Mind Of A Murderer: Mask of Sanity 1/6

''The first programme, Mask Of Sanity, explores the differences between psychopathic and psychotic killers.

A remarkable study at the Institute of Psychiatry is beginning to shed light on the mystery of psychosis the discovery of a distinct pattern of neurological abnormality in the psychotic person which shows how their brain processing can distort reality.

Cody Mitten lived an apparently normal life until it all went tragically wrong. Cody is now in jail on medication and he describes the vivid memories of his psychotic state when he committed the horrific murder of his mother and her boyfriend. His sister,Tammy, speaks movingly about the brother she still loves.

Although the two terms are often used interchangeably, psychotics such as Cody are very different to psychopathic killers. Professor Robert Hare the worlds leading expert in psychopathy has found a range of neurological and physiological abnormalities in the brain which show that psychopaths cannot process emotion in the same way as normal people.These physical differences may be responsible for the cold-blooded and calculating nature of the psychopath''


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#425565 - 07/02/10 09:51 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: Roho_the_Rooster]
John Prophet Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 990
Loc: My suburban lair
Originally Posted By: Roho_the_Rooster
Why is it difficult for most to get that, for a person society deems "normal" (whatever the Hell that means), comitting an act that breaks a major taboo simply because they want to would give someone a temporary feeling of omnipotence? And lest someone parrots the adage, "I could not live with myself if I killed an innocent person"...bull shit. What they would find it difficult is that they did something that they feel uncomfortable about. It would not, in my opinion, be any real distress about the actual life lost. The difference may seem unimportant; but, the distress would be about them, and how they feel...not the actual life lost. So, would the problem be that a life was lost, or that they did not live up to an ideal?
...
Bottom line...other than the fact that these people broke a particular taboo, they are probably pretty much like all the other twerps walking around. They are one hit wonders...okay...serial hit wonders. If people saw them that way, it would make them uncomfortable about themselves.


I applaud you for saying that (especially since I wasn't going to be the first one to do it grin). And I think you're completely correct.

Originally Posted By: Shade
Most notably perhaps that “normal” people may not be as different from “abnormal” as they'd like to think.

I've often thought this as well.

Sometimes I get the impression that people’s “inability to comprehend the actions of serial killers” is at least somewhat more about paying lip service to social standards and concepts of general morality; than a genuine lack of comprehension.

I think that it’s important for many people’s sense of humanitarian pride, to distance themselves as much as possible from any possible comparison with socially undesirable people like serial killers.

“One who has only risen to the curbstone dares not return to the gutter.”
-Dr. LaVey, How to Become a Werewolf
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#425578 - 07/02/10 01:31 PM Re: Serial Killers [Re: Witch_Scarlet]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1672
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: Witch_Scarlet


The study of serial killers is a work of art, you can spend a lifetime doing it, changing it, recreating it, using one method after another and much like an unfinished piece of art, there is a good chance you will never complete it. I have been doing it privately and professionally off and on for almost 30 years now.




I like the way you express yourself here.

Anyway,

More to study :

Mind Of A Murderer: Damaged 1/6

''Neurological research using the latest advances in brain imaging has revealed deficits and brain damage in certain types of murderer. Mind Of A Murderer investigates how childhood physical abuse can result in types of brain damage that may increase the likelihood of committing murder later in life. Cases featured on the programme include that of Dante Page who violently murdered 24-year-old Peyton Tuthill in Denver, Colorado. Page tied Tuthill up with electrical cord and later slit her throat. Dante confessed to the crime and is now awaiting trial. But how far can he be held responsible for the murder?

Professor Dorothy Otnow Lewis is a forensic psychiatrist who studies the family, school and medical histories of murderers, and will be an expert witness for Pages defence. Many of the people I was seeing had these horrendous medical histories.They had signs of psychological testing, and from their school reports, of some sort of mind dysfunction. Dante Page is a walking textbook of the clinical evaluation of the violent person, she says. It transpires that Pages mother used to hit him almost daily with a range of objects and that even as early as first grade he became withdrawn and found communication difficult.

Dr Adrian Raine has carried out a study of 41 murderers all of them turn out to have frontal lobe damage. If you are an infant and your parent vigorously shakes you and your head rocks backwards and forwards, the brain inside the skull will bang on the bony part of the skull and the frontal lobe will get damaged, he says. This is still a controversial area of research but in the United States it is already being applied in the appeals of death row prisoners where brain abnormalities are being considered as mitigating factors in their sentencing.''


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#425581 - 07/02/10 02:31 PM Re: Serial Killers [Re: Roho_the_Rooster]
Iscariot Offline


Registered: 06/08/09
Posts: 144
Loc: United States
Originally Posted By: Roho_the_Rooster
I also wonder if part of the thrill of reading about serial killers is that we are, by not being repelled by them, breaking a taboo. Kind of like enjoying seeing pictures of dead people...or people having sex. Society outwordly frowns on these things.


I've come to a similar conclusion when it comes to the American people an their inexplicable obsession with Hitler. (Who was, arguably, one of the most successful murderers in recent history.)

I think it ties in with Freud's theory of "Death-Drive," that people are drawn toward destruction and death and thus are fascinated by people like Hitler and the above serial killers. Even if they don't actually support or condone the behavior (outwardly). crossbones

In short, people are sick little moths being drawn into the bug zapper by acts of gratuitous violence. coopdevil


Edited by Iscariot (07/02/10 02:37 PM)
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#425588 - 07/02/10 03:21 PM Re: Serial Killers [Re: LightAngel]
M.D. Roche Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 513
Loc: Albany, New York
"Kiss my ass!" - last words of John Wayne Gacy.

grin
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