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#425452 - 07/01/10 11:59 AM Serial Killers
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1688
Loc: Denmark
These days I study serial killers, I read, I look at videos at YouTube etc.

And why?! - Well they are my opposite, I believe in life, I would never kill unless it was self-defence, or for survival.

So these people are ''alien'' to me, I need to learn about their psychology.

- They all had a bad childhood and they all have a lack of sympathy, they seem unfeeling to the pain they create.

Many people have a bad childhood, but they don't become serial killers or psychopaths, so WHAT makes them ''different''?!

I need answers, I need more knowledge. They all look insane to me except Richard Kuklinski, I don't agree with his ways, but I don't find him insane like Ted Bundy and many of the others.


Here are some of the Serial Killers I study these days:

Richard Franklin Speck - Part 1/5



Jeffrey Dahmer Part 1/5



John Wayne Gacy - Part 1/5



Richard Kuklinski 'The iceman' Part 1 of 12


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#425453 - 07/01/10 12:15 PM Re: Serial Killers [Re: LightAngel]
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 10581
Loc: England
If you haven't already read it, a book I would recommend is: Talking with Serial Killers by Christopher Berry-Dee.

I believe there is also a second book of interviews now. Many of the killers interviewed in the first book have now met their end. Either in the electric chair or from illness whilst on death row.
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#425456 - 07/01/10 12:31 PM Re: Serial Killers [Re: Drake_Bamboozle]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1688
Loc: Denmark
No, I didn't read it yet.

So thank you for the recommendation.

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#425458 - 07/01/10 01:35 PM Re: Serial Killers [Re: LightAngel]
The_Lightning Offline


Registered: 05/21/06
Posts: 1325
Loc: Israel

Gosh, I've just finished a test in psychopathology...
"What makes people mentally ill" is a million dollar question. Nobody can predict human behavior.

As far as I've learned, Anti-Social Personality Disorder is only somewhat genetic. However it seems that they have some unknown neurological defectiveness that makes them "emotionally retarded". They seem to be stuck in infancy as far as inhibitions and moral development goes, and they seem unable to get emotional satisfaction from normal activity.

Other than that, nurture is always a big factor, of course. It's not hard to completely fuck up a person who already has a strong predisposition to anti-social behavior.
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#425460 - 07/01/10 02:00 PM Re: Serial Killers [Re: LightAngel]
verszou Offline



Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 1814
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: LightAngel
These days I study serial killers, I read, I look at videos at YouTube etc.


Have you read this book ? I read it some years ago when I had my own fascination with serial killers.

He identifies several types and some of the differences in their MO. He also briefly towards the end mentions how he ended up talking to Thomas Harris and how "Silence of the Lambs" differed from his way of doing things.

My own interest in the subject came from the Hannibal Lecter character and the Scarpetta novels by Patricia Cromwell, and I was fascinated by the apparently superior minds, combined with a lack of the normal inhibitors that keep us from doing things like that.

One item that might interest you also is an interview by a psychologist with a mafia hitman. The title escapes me at the moment, but I'll try to see if I can find it. The interesting part for me was at the end, where he turns things around and asks this man who has killed without remorse for years and years while being a normal family father if he has something he would like to ask.

The hitman asks what the psychologist thinks of him, and in a very calm well thought out statement he explains how there are certain personality types that have a certain reaction to danger, where the fear impulse that people would normally have does not get activated. If stimulated in a positive way, these people may go on to become racecar drivers or fighter pilots, because they can handle situations where the rest of us would say "Oh fuck, this is gonna kill me". But if stimulated the wrong way they might end up doing horrible things without the fear that the rest of us would feel, as in "what have I done? The cops will be on my tail now!".

I was very fascinated by how this extremely violent man, who had fed people to rats and disposed of bodies without any qualm just sits there, listens and towards the end sort of nods his head like he is saying "That sounds about right".
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#425500 - 07/01/10 09:26 PM Re: Serial Killers [Re: LightAngel]
Witch_Scarlet Offline

CoS Witch

Registered: 01/09/06
Posts: 787
Loc: Texas
Actually, most serial killers are not "insane" they are perfectly normal in almost every respect, by todays standards at any rate. They just have this one little quirk if you will. Get passed the fact that they kill and you have just your average Joe.

There is no set pattern to their lives, some come from "good" homes, mom, dad, good student, had friends, enjoyed life, some come from broken homes, occasionally from abusive homes but that is in truth the rarity rather than the norm. Many become obsessed with porn and almost all male serial killers are very close to their mothers, and a great many of them have no idea why they do what they do. Much like urges that all people have, killing for most serial killers is an urge they cannot or choose not to control, nor for the most part, understand.

It is this fact, that they cannot be pigeoned holed that makes them so fascinating for many people, women in particular.

As a profiler you learn very quickly that any one, from any where, any walk of life can be a serial killer, or just a normal every day killer for that matter. I am always amazed at how often serial killers, and those who become enamored of them do not fit any type of mold, no matter how hard society tries to shove them into one.

The study of serial killers is a work of art, you can spend a lifetime doing it, changing it, recreating it, using one method after another and much like an unfinished piece of art, there is a good chance you will never complete it. I have been doing it privately and professionally off and on for almost 30 years now.

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#425509 - 07/01/10 10:46 PM Re: Serial Killers [Re: verszou]
Old_Pig Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3969
Loc: The Deep South
That must be Richard "Iceman" Kuklinski. His interview is one of the creepiest and at the same time the most enlightening documentaries I have seen. The scariest thing about him is how completely calm and even proud he looks while talking about his murders. In one case he talks of how he killed a random stranger just to test if the crossbow he had bought was powerful enough to drive an arrow through a human skull.
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#425518 - 07/01/10 11:59 PM Re: Serial Killers [Re: Old_Pig]
verszou Offline



Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 1814
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: Old_Pig
That must be Richard "Iceman" Kuklinski. His interview is one of the creepiest and at the same time the most enlightening documentaries I have seen.


Yes, exactly. Thank you for saving me the trouble of going through the dusty corners of my brain smile
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#425541 - 07/02/10 04:57 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: LightAngel]
Shade Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/08/06
Posts: 6135
Loc: A Trailer Park
Originally Posted By: LightAngel
... so WHAT makes them ''different''?!


Boy, isn’t that the Holy Grail? Why serial killers are the way they are is such a conundrum I’m immediately suspicious of anyone who says they have the answer. There doesn’t seem to be any reliable formula. A real stubbed-toe source of frustration for me but may (partly) explain my appetite for the subject. I like puzzles.

I get extremely uncomfortable with generalizations about their character/psychology though. The “lack of empathy” thing for instance -- dehumanizing their victims -- seems eerily similar to the compartmentalization necessary for laudable members of society like soldiers and doctors.

I’ve quoted it a few times but one of my favorite books is The Gates of Janus by Ian Brady. Beyond the fact that it's a great example of egomania, I think he brings up some interesting points worth consideration. Delves into pretty taboo territory while exploring the “why” question. Most notably perhaps that “normal” people may not be as different from “abnormal” as they'd like to think.

Quote:
I offer this to illustrate further that there is no great gap between the law-abiding and the criminal. It is man's expedient or delusional nature to parade lack of omnipotent power as innate virtue, well knowing the latter formed no motivational part of his thoughts or emotions at the moment of resentful revenge.


And...

Quote:
Can there by any objective doubt, in those of you wisely conversant with the wiles and ways of human nature and man's infinite capacity to rationalize every atrocity there is, that the main psychological reason why most people do not pray to the Prince of Darkness, had they robust spirit to do so, is that it would be tantamount to worshiping themselves, thus confirming a nature they would piously deny?


Maybe this is the real appeal of the subject, of trying to decipher serial killers. Learning more about them, of those we consider unlike us, teaches us more about ourselves. I don't know. I just get this funny feeling like the reason we don't have answers is because we're not asking the right questions.

Anyway. A few other book recommendations:

Final Truth: The Autobiography of a Serial Killer, Donald Gaskins & Wilton Earle (about Pee Wee Gaskins)
Panzram: A Journal of Murder, Thomas Gaddis
Fiend: The Shocking True Story of America’s Youngest Serial Killer, Harold Schechter (about Jesse Pomeroy)

And for an overview, Colin Wilson’s History of Murder
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#425554 - 07/02/10 07:48 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: Witch_Scarlet]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 6999
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
I was not going to respond to this post, because I am well aware of how my personal views can be misconstrued; but, since it seems others have views similar to mine, I think it will be okay to show the tip of the iceburg...at least in this part of the forum.

Why is it difficult for most to get that, for a person society deems "normal" (whatever the Hell that means), comitting an act that breaks a major taboo simply because they want to would give someone a temporary feeling of omnipotence? And lest someone parrots the adage, "I could not live with myself if I killed an innocent person"...bull shit. What they would find it difficult is that they did something that they feel uncomfortable about. It would not, in my opinion, be any real distress about the actual life lost. The difference may seem unimportant; but, the distress would be about them, and how they feel...not the actual life lost. So, would the problem be that a life was lost, or that they did not live up to an ideal?

I fully understand that the above should be cleaned up some, but the conversation would be too long to put in a post. Bottom line...other than the fact that these people broke a particular taboo, they are probably pretty much like all the other twerps walking around. They are one hit wonders...okay...serial hit wonders. If people saw them that way, it would make them uncomfortable about themselves. Accept for those of us here who find them interesting...we're different. grin

I also wonder if part of the thrill of reading about serial killers is that we are, by not being repelled by them, breaking a taboo. Kind of like enjoying seeing pictures of dead people...or people having sex. Society outwordly frowns on these things.
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#425562 - 07/02/10 09:13 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: The_Lightning]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1688
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: The_Lightning

Gosh, I've just finished a test in psychopathology...
"What makes people mentally ill" is a million dollar question. Nobody can predict human behavior.



Thank you all for sharing your thoughts inside this topic.

There's so much to analyse and study here. I just saw this program, and I find it very informative!


Mind Of A Murderer: Mask of Sanity 1/6

''The first programme, Mask Of Sanity, explores the differences between psychopathic and psychotic killers.

A remarkable study at the Institute of Psychiatry is beginning to shed light on the mystery of psychosis the discovery of a distinct pattern of neurological abnormality in the psychotic person which shows how their brain processing can distort reality.

Cody Mitten lived an apparently normal life until it all went tragically wrong. Cody is now in jail on medication and he describes the vivid memories of his psychotic state when he committed the horrific murder of his mother and her boyfriend. His sister,Tammy, speaks movingly about the brother she still loves.

Although the two terms are often used interchangeably, psychotics such as Cody are very different to psychopathic killers. Professor Robert Hare the worlds leading expert in psychopathy has found a range of neurological and physiological abnormalities in the brain which show that psychopaths cannot process emotion in the same way as normal people.These physical differences may be responsible for the cold-blooded and calculating nature of the psychopath''


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#425565 - 07/02/10 09:51 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: Roho_the_Rooster]
John Prophet Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 996
Loc: My suburban lair
Originally Posted By: Roho_the_Rooster
Why is it difficult for most to get that, for a person society deems "normal" (whatever the Hell that means), comitting an act that breaks a major taboo simply because they want to would give someone a temporary feeling of omnipotence? And lest someone parrots the adage, "I could not live with myself if I killed an innocent person"...bull shit. What they would find it difficult is that they did something that they feel uncomfortable about. It would not, in my opinion, be any real distress about the actual life lost. The difference may seem unimportant; but, the distress would be about them, and how they feel...not the actual life lost. So, would the problem be that a life was lost, or that they did not live up to an ideal?
...
Bottom line...other than the fact that these people broke a particular taboo, they are probably pretty much like all the other twerps walking around. They are one hit wonders...okay...serial hit wonders. If people saw them that way, it would make them uncomfortable about themselves.


I applaud you for saying that (especially since I wasn't going to be the first one to do it grin). And I think you're completely correct.

Originally Posted By: Shade
Most notably perhaps that “normal” people may not be as different from “abnormal” as they'd like to think.

I've often thought this as well.

Sometimes I get the impression that people’s “inability to comprehend the actions of serial killers” is at least somewhat more about paying lip service to social standards and concepts of general morality; than a genuine lack of comprehension.

I think that it’s important for many people’s sense of humanitarian pride, to distance themselves as much as possible from any possible comparison with socially undesirable people like serial killers.

“One who has only risen to the curbstone dares not return to the gutter.”
-Dr. LaVey, How to Become a Werewolf
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#425578 - 07/02/10 01:31 PM Re: Serial Killers [Re: Witch_Scarlet]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1688
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: Witch_Scarlet


The study of serial killers is a work of art, you can spend a lifetime doing it, changing it, recreating it, using one method after another and much like an unfinished piece of art, there is a good chance you will never complete it. I have been doing it privately and professionally off and on for almost 30 years now.




I like the way you express yourself here.

Anyway,

More to study :

Mind Of A Murderer: Damaged 1/6

''Neurological research using the latest advances in brain imaging has revealed deficits and brain damage in certain types of murderer. Mind Of A Murderer investigates how childhood physical abuse can result in types of brain damage that may increase the likelihood of committing murder later in life. Cases featured on the programme include that of Dante Page who violently murdered 24-year-old Peyton Tuthill in Denver, Colorado. Page tied Tuthill up with electrical cord and later slit her throat. Dante confessed to the crime and is now awaiting trial. But how far can he be held responsible for the murder?

Professor Dorothy Otnow Lewis is a forensic psychiatrist who studies the family, school and medical histories of murderers, and will be an expert witness for Pages defence. Many of the people I was seeing had these horrendous medical histories.They had signs of psychological testing, and from their school reports, of some sort of mind dysfunction. Dante Page is a walking textbook of the clinical evaluation of the violent person, she says. It transpires that Pages mother used to hit him almost daily with a range of objects and that even as early as first grade he became withdrawn and found communication difficult.

Dr Adrian Raine has carried out a study of 41 murderers all of them turn out to have frontal lobe damage. If you are an infant and your parent vigorously shakes you and your head rocks backwards and forwards, the brain inside the skull will bang on the bony part of the skull and the frontal lobe will get damaged, he says. This is still a controversial area of research but in the United States it is already being applied in the appeals of death row prisoners where brain abnormalities are being considered as mitigating factors in their sentencing.''


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#425581 - 07/02/10 02:31 PM Re: Serial Killers [Re: Roho_the_Rooster]
Iscariot Offline


Registered: 06/08/09
Posts: 144
Loc: United States
Originally Posted By: Roho_the_Rooster
I also wonder if part of the thrill of reading about serial killers is that we are, by not being repelled by them, breaking a taboo. Kind of like enjoying seeing pictures of dead people...or people having sex. Society outwordly frowns on these things.


I've come to a similar conclusion when it comes to the American people an their inexplicable obsession with Hitler. (Who was, arguably, one of the most successful murderers in recent history.)

I think it ties in with Freud's theory of "Death-Drive," that people are drawn toward destruction and death and thus are fascinated by people like Hitler and the above serial killers. Even if they don't actually support or condone the behavior (outwardly). crossbones

In short, people are sick little moths being drawn into the bug zapper by acts of gratuitous violence. coopdevil


Edited by Iscariot (07/02/10 02:37 PM)
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#425588 - 07/02/10 03:21 PM Re: Serial Killers [Re: LightAngel]
M.D. Roche Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 513
Loc: Albany, New York
"Kiss my ass!" - last words of John Wayne Gacy.

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#425590 - 07/02/10 03:27 PM Re: Serial Killers [Re: LightAngel]
I'mPerfecting Offline


Registered: 02/03/08
Posts: 221
Loc: Florida
A wonderful field of study, that needs as many open-minds as it can get. I am a student of Behavioral Analysis, and Forensic Psychology. Their are some excellent books listed here for this very interesting topic.(Thank You)

One of my favorite shows is Most Evil. Dr. Michael Stone's Evil Scale classifies murders on a scale of 1-22, to try an determine the psychology of killers.

Serial killers are fascinating but rare. They just received the most news time, because of the human races morbid curiosity to understand "How could they do such a thing?". In the wise words of Maynard ,with this most poignant video by Joe Martin "We all need watch things die... Why can't we just admit it?"

To profile you need to be able to get in their heads. Both Roho, and John pointed out, most would not feel guilty about the loss of life. They feel sorry for themselves for getting caught, and having to face consequence, not for the crime itself. People only act shocked because of the status-quo.
People have a natural hatred of anything they don't know or understand. They only like a person or thing once they get to know it. Killers (serial or otherwise) act on this hatred more easily than your average Joe and still appear normal.
Why? Because a cat is still a normal cat even if it's ferrall. It doesn't have mental problems just because it doesn't like you. These killer are just feral people, untamed, wild "monsters", with no restraint, because until they are caught their are no boundaries. If might is right, and they are stronger, they can just as easily be seen as hunters. A wild person would have no regard for anything the rest of society thought or wanted. This disregard seems odd to people because most are tame and compliant, with the understanding laws make for a civilized society. Not everyone can be taught this successfully. I pointed out in another post more people are criminals than are not.

As Satanist we take for granted the conundrum we present to the world. We represent their understood image of "Evil", this challenge their taboos. By presenting it with image of virtue, decency, respect and common sense, we are like a wrench in the works.
We complicate the common understanding people have to blame the devil.

They hate the sin and not the sinner because the devil made them do it, and they can't fight those demons themselves. Society has grown dependent on this reasoning, and it hinders the ability to understand what makes them tick. Most reports will constantly compare these killer to demons. Which also comes with the notion of reform, something a "serial" criminal is not capable of, they are stuck in their ways, with no hope of reform.

We could also ask why don't we commit these type of crimes? Why don't we kill under pressure? What kind of trauma does it take to break a person? Many people threaten to kill often enough.
However, it is believed that animal abuse, bed wetting past a reasonable age, and mental or physical abuse, all three combined are good signs a child will grow up to be serial killer. This is not true for all of them, but most will have this kind of history.
I ask what makes a person "serial" in the first place? Why are killers the only focus? What about serial rapist, serial arsonist, or serial car thieves? Why the pattern in their choice victim? Is it possibly the crime would never be committed if the trigger is never presented?
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#425592 - 07/02/10 03:53 PM Re: Serial Killers [Re: I'mPerfecting]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11570
Loc: New England, USA
Originally Posted By: I'mPerfecting
I ask what makes a person "serial" in the first place? Why are killers the only focus? What about serial rapist, serial arsonist, or serial car thieves? Why the pattern in their choice victim? Is it possibly the crime would never be committed if the trigger is never presented?

I'm not sure if all of those questions were meant to be rhetorical, and I'm no expert on this topic, but...

I suspect that the "serial" mentality often comes from having gone through some traumatic past event that went unresolved, and wanting closure so badly that the person will try to reconstruct the event, in hopes of playing it out favorably. It's like trying to resolve a problem by proxy. For example, an unstable guy gets torn to ruins by a girlfriend who has some certain hairstyle and certain wardrobe, so he "sees" that woman every time he looks at any woman with the same physical description, and punishes his ex-lover via them.
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#425594 - 07/02/10 04:25 PM Re: Serial Killers [Re: I'mPerfecting]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Quote:
I ask what makes a person "serial" in the first place? Why are killers the only focus? What about serial rapist, serial arsonist, or serial car thieves? Why the pattern in their choice victim? Is it possibly the crime would never be committed if the trigger is never presented?

I'm not really sure what you mean by your questions. Do you mean the focus for pop culture? Or the focus for police? You do realize there ARE serial rapists, pyromaniacs, etc., and the cops are after them too, right?
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#425628 - 07/02/10 10:59 PM Re: Serial Killers [Re: Bill_M]
I'mPerfecting Offline


Registered: 02/03/08
Posts: 221
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: Bill_M
I'm not sure if all of those questions were meant to be rhetorical...

Yes, they were written rhetorically, because I wrote them as something to think about. I realize it was unclear because...

Why are killers the only focus? Should have been written...
Why are killers the only focus of the media? blush

News broadcasts and reports only highlight serial killers, without ever looking at other crimes with the same seemingly incurable repetitious disorder. I was bring it up to point out there are more than just killers who can fall into the same "serial" criminal category, that in itself is the disorder.

Originally Posted By: Bill_M
I suspect that the "serial" mentality often comes from having gone through some traumatic past event that went unresolved, and wanting closure so badly that the person will try to reconstruct the event, in hopes of playing it out favorably. It's like trying to resolve a problem by proxy.


That's accurate, especially where
>>>It's like trying to resolve a problem by proxy.
I like that description. smile

They keep trying until they get the correct desired outcome, to sate the urge. Which needless to say never works and always end badly.
I find it's like fundamentalism, unable to change their minds about their beliefs, or alter the actions of their practices. They are not unreasonable unless you cross the line of their fixation, or something happens to trigger it.
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#425630 - 07/02/10 11:31 PM Re: Serial Killers [Re: Old_Pig]
J. Hagalaz Offline


Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 1212
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Old_Pig
That must be Richard "Iceman" Kuklinski. His interview is one of the creepiest and at the same time the most enlightening documentaries I have seen. The scariest thing about him is how completely calm and even proud he looks while talking about his murders. In one case he talks of how he killed a random stranger just to test if the crossbow he had bought was powerful enough to drive an arrow through a human skull.


I think what makes someone like Richard Kuklinski so fascinating to people is that, because he had Antisocial Personality Disorder, he was capable of doing things that many people secretly wish they could do. In fact, when I took a course on Abnormal Psychology a few years ago, the instructor did a presentation (which included the interview posted by LightAngel) about Kuklinski and it was interesting to notice how most of the students really seemed to like the guy!

I think this overwhelmingly positive response comes from the fact that many of the people Kuklinski "iced" seemed to be deserving, for one reason or another. After all, he was a mafia hit-man, so many of his victims were criminals, and the documentaries about him seem to pay special attention to that aspect of him. However, the reality is that he killed a lot of people who were hardly deserving, and he usually did so using rather creative and horrible methods. On top of that, he exhibited many of the trade-mark "symptoms" of someone with APD, including excessive cruelty to animals and the physical abuse of the woman in his life, including his last wife who was so terrified of him she wouldn't leave him and pretended not to notice anything. Hardly a hero, in my mind, and not really that interesting of a person once you see past the scary music of the documentaries.
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#425636 - 07/03/10 12:50 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: reprobate]
I'mPerfecting Offline


Registered: 02/03/08
Posts: 221
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: reprobate
I'm not really sure what you mean by your questions. Do you mean the focus for pop culture? Or the focus for police?


Sorry about that, I meant the focus of the media, I forgot to add that part. Oops blush I didn't mean to cause confusion.

Originally Posted By: reprobate
You do realize there ARE serial rapists, pyromaniacs, etc., and the cops are after them too, right?

[sarcasm]Nope, I had no idea, thank you for telling me. That's quite the relief. I thought all this time, those criminals where getting a free pass to run amuck.[/sarcasm]laugh

Yes, I realize there are serial rapists and Pyromaniacs, that's why I mentioned them. I also know the cops are after them.
I mentioned it because the other crimes are not considered "serial" in the same way it's used for killers, even though they share a common thread. It is the repetitious compulsory mental disorder to go after the same type of person, place or thing, and there is always an unchanged patterned to their practices. It's a very obsessively compulsive act, no matter what the crime is.
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"...Porcelain in a paper cup world."
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#426003 - 07/07/10 11:53 PM Re: Serial Killers [Re: J. Hagalaz]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1688
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: JEHJr


I think what makes someone like Richard Kuklinski so fascinating to people is that, because he had Antisocial Personality Disorder, he was capable of doing things that many people secretly wish they could do. In fact, when I took a course on Abnormal Psychology a few years ago, the instructor did a presentation (which included the interview posted by LightAngel) about Kuklinski and it was interesting to notice how most of the students really seemed to like the guy!

I think this overwhelmingly positive response comes from the fact that many of the people Kuklinski "iced" seemed to be deserving, for one reason or another. After all, he was a mafia hit-man, so many of his victims were criminals, and the documentaries about him seem to pay special attention to that aspect of him. However, the reality is that he killed a lot of people who were hardly deserving, and he usually did so using rather creative and horrible methods. On top of that, he exhibited many of the trade-mark "symptoms" of someone with APD, including excessive cruelty to animals and the physical abuse of the woman in his life, including his last wife who was so terrified of him she wouldn't leave him and pretended not to notice anything. Hardly a hero, in my mind, and not really that interesting of a person once you see past the scary music of the documentaries.


I agree.

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#426025 - 07/08/10 05:24 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: I'mPerfecting]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1688
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: I'mPerfecting




To profile you need to be able to get in their heads.


I understand your point, but I also know now that it's not really a place I need, or want to be, unless I have to because of professional reasons.

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#426139 - 07/09/10 06:40 PM Re: Serial Killers [Re: LightAngel]
I'mPerfecting Offline


Registered: 02/03/08
Posts: 221
Loc: Florida
It is a place even Angels fear to tread.

I have professional reasons for doing it.
It takes a lot of self control to separate from the situation. It's not easy and certainly not for everyone. I'm finding my emotions make it difficult to keep rational objectivity at the forefront of my analysis.

Jim Jones is one of sickest and most difficult mass murders I have studied. I know he's not a serial killer but a murderer is a murderer and I am studying them all. The worst are killers who are children. It takes some severely terrible people to drive their kids to kill so young, and always makes me wonder about the parents more than the kids.

I recall a line from the movie "Session 9",
"And where do you live Simon?"
"I live in the weak and the wounded."
_________________________
"...And the truth that makes us laugh, will make you cry!"
"...Porcelain in a paper cup world."
~Almost Alice~

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#426222 - 07/11/10 12:48 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: M.D. Roche]
Pablovilla Offline



Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 267
Loc: Victorville, California
Something to keep in mind there was a warning a while back about not to answer the satanic census, and this topic goes right along with it, and that is there are a few highly known serial killers that call themselves Satanists, that are clearly devil worshipers.

The site that did have that census also groups many popular people that are in the open such as the current and former people that we all know about such as Peter Gilmore, Blanche Barton, Anton LaVey, and other including the children to Anton with the likes of serial killers, and chances are if you were to have answered that census you would also be listed with the likes of serial killers.

All I can say is that when I seen the site it made me feel sick seeing it, after all what kind of sick mind would ever group serial killing devil worshipers with upstanding people of the community.

Even though what I'm saying is obvious, it is obvious to me from my reading and contact with others here and elsewhere and even people in the past that I have chatted with on BBS systems, in person, and others including the writer of some of the to read books listed on the CoS website.

Besides who else besides a RHP person that has hate towards others could ever think that a Satanist could be a Serial killer, We do not worship Satan, only reverse Christians do that, and they are not really Satanists, but they are serial killers.
_________________________
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result - Ben Franklin

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#426224 - 07/11/10 01:03 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: I'mPerfecting]
Pablovilla Offline



Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 267
Loc: Victorville, California
Originally Posted By: I'mPerfecting
It is a place even Angels fear to tread.

The worst are killers who are children. It takes some severely terrible people to drive their kids to kill so young, and always makes me wonder about the parents more than the kids.

I recall a line from the movie "Session 9",
"And where do you live Simon?"
"I live in the weak and the wounded."


Sick minds indeed, All one needs to do it look at what happens in war zones to know this. Besides according to studies it is easier to get kids to kill than other people because they do not know their mortality, and in addition they are the innocent. They are still forming what is right and wrong, and do not fully have an appreciation for life and that of others.

I feel that it is the lack of appreciation of the life not just of oneself, but that of others that makes us human, and when someone does not have that, or it is taken away they loose a part of their humanity.

It is that lack of humanity that enables them to become serial killers. After all on a lighter scale one way to keep an animal from being slaughtered is to name it and be its friend. What sane person would ever what to harm a friend of theirs? or even someone that they know closely just because they can.

I can see that this topic in a way does show us our humanity do to the lack of it in a few people.
_________________________
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result - Ben Franklin

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#426380 - 07/13/10 07:10 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: I'mPerfecting]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1688
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: I'mPerfecting


The worst are killers who are children. It takes some severely terrible people to drive their kids to kill so young, and always makes me wonder about the parents more than the kids.



If you study a child killer like Mary Bell, then I really believe it's a result of a sick family! - To call her bad seed is just ignorant, because childrens brain isn't fully developed.

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#426504 - 07/14/10 12:58 PM Re: Serial Killers [Re: Pablovilla]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1688
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: paul_r

What sane person would ever what to harm a friend of theirs? or even someone that they know closely just because they can.

I can see that this topic in a way does show us our humanity do to the lack of it in a few people.


Exactly....


Edited by LightAngel (07/14/10 01:02 PM)

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#426523 - 07/14/10 03:50 PM Re: Serial Killers [Re: LightAngel]
HGaunt Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 03/19/08
Posts: 98
Loc: Sin City
I believe, and please correct me if I am wrong, that Anton LaVey had stated something quite beautiful in response to questions about the Zodiac Killer. If I am not mistaken he said something along the lines of "...maybe he just likes to hunt people."

I think that is a simple, yet brilliant, way of summing up of most serial killers. Granted you will always have your crazy ones like Dahmer, Ramirez, etc. but the ones like The Iceman... well, maybe they just like to hunt people. I know I can sympathize, one reason why I joined the military.

Speaking of Antisocial Personality Disorder, I would venture that most Satanists would fail a psychological exam or score as having some type of personality "disorder". All Satanists I have met up to this point have been highly misanthropic, to the extent of occasionally refusing to leave the house where they have created a total environment and will go months without being around a single soul other than those they choose to let in. I think this is a perfectly "normal" way of thinking, it is my way. However, I certainly see a psychiatrist saying that we are sick in the head.

There is a fine line between genius and insanity. People sometimes cross that line. In the end the serial killer preforms more of a service to the world than do the psychologists that study them. At least they are thinning the herd.


Edited by Lu_Safyr (07/15/10 01:25 PM)
_________________________
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#426537 - 07/14/10 11:44 PM Re: Serial Killers [Re: Roho_the_Rooster]
Bliss Offline


Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 26
Loc: Colorado
I think it's as simple as this: Some people like rock climbing, others enjoy skiing, and some people enjoy snuffing out the existence of other people.

I'm sure like beer, it's an acquired taste in that people don't inherently want to kill other people.

Admittedly, something abnormal in their lives has made the prospect of killing attractive. However, there is no singular 'something' that does it, as the diversity of serial killers proves, but typically something really bad happens to them during their development that makes it appealing.

My point is, understanding what makes serial killers 'tick' is on a case-by-case basis.

Originally Posted By: Roho_the_Rooster
Kind of like enjoying seeing pictures of... or people having sex. Society outwordly frowns on these things.


What!? That's actually considered taboo??

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#426539 - 07/15/10 12:13 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: HGaunt]
Quaark Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 8898
Originally Posted By: Lu_Safyr
Speaking of Antisocial Personality Disorder, I would venture that most Satanists would fail a psychological exam or score as having some type of personality "disorder".


And I would venture that you might be very very wrong about that.

Real Satanists are the productive and successful alien elite, not the dregs and misfits who call themselves Satanists because they like the dark aesthetic.

Being misanthropic does not equate to having a personality disorder; the top Satanists I know personally have a firm grasp on Lesser Magic and how to function in society well; they simply choose to apply a higher standard of who they spend time with, which is quite different than being psycho-socially crippled.

You might examine your assumptions more closely.

wink

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#426548 - 07/15/10 03:16 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: Quaark]
HGaunt Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 03/19/08
Posts: 98
Loc: Sin City
Originally Posted By: Daark
Real Satanists are the productive and successful alien elite, not the dregs and misfits who call themselves Satanists because they like the dark aesthetic.


I completely agree Rev. Daark. Satanists are the productive and successful ALIEN ELITE. That in and of itself proves that Satanists do not think like the majority of people in the world who will never do anything worth doing. However, according to most psychologists, the majority are the ones who are mentally healthy.
_________________________
"The natural world is a world of war; the natural man is a warrior; the natural law is tooth and claw. All else is error."

-Ragnar Redbeard(Might is Right)

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#426554 - 07/15/10 04:16 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: HGaunt]
Spelled Moon
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Lu_Safyr
majority of people in the world who will never do anything worth doing. However, according to most psychologists, the majority are the ones who are mentally healthy.


Lu_Safyr, I can speak about my surrounding - here in Slovakia, a lot of people suffer from unhealthy stress. Their general practitioners prescribe them pills to calm (dumb) them down. One of the main symptoms which occur is insomnia, no matter how much they wish to fall asleep; they just can't stop brains from working and analysing all the problems, which the life brings to them. There are various signs of problems, which are observable if you just listen to others enough well. Apathy, obesity as outcomes...

These people don't have to go visit the psychologists or psychiatrists, though it's something, what requires treatment. And if kept enough long without it, you can never know what will start in their heads.

Mental health, very basically:

"A state of well-being in which the individual realizes his or her own abilities, can cope with the normal stresses of life, can work productively and fruitfully, and is able to make a contribution to his or her community"

or

"The ability to enjoy life."

The fact, that they consider themselves mentally healthy and don't search for help from the experts, doesn't mean that they really are like that.

I also guess, that a lot of people just don't seek help because of problems with finances, mainly in countries, where the health insurance is not provided by the state.
If their ego or inability to understand are not that, what impedes them from doing so.

A lot of people eventually could 'reach a line', behind which they are not mentally healthy. They can not be above 'things' in a way, that it won't affect their healthy functioning.


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#426560 - 07/15/10 06:15 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: ]
HGaunt Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 03/19/08
Posts: 98
Loc: Sin City
Allow me to clarify my thought process here. I am not suggesting that Satanists are psycho-socially crippled as Rev. Daark put it, or that they cannot function in modern society. I know for a fact that is not true as I am a Satanist and am successful at life.

What I was trying to convey was that given modern psychology several behaviors that most Satanists exhibit would be seen as outside the social norm and, in some cases, classified as a disorder.

For instance: Lesser Magic is essentially manipulation of other's in order to achieve a desired result. According to The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders fourth edition, deceitfulness, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure is a symptom of ASPD. When I have preformed Lesser Magic I have lied, deceived, used an alias and conned others for personal profit and/or pleasure. Again I would venture that most Satanists have as well.

While I am not saying that Satanists are psycho/sociopaths I am saying that in today's world of over zealous, pill pushing psychiatrists a few of us would be mis-diagnosed.

However, I will admit that perhaps the wording in my original post was in error. I apologize for not stating clearly what I was trying to get across and for moving the thread away from its original purpose.


_________________________
"The natural world is a world of war; the natural man is a warrior; the natural law is tooth and claw. All else is error."

-Ragnar Redbeard(Might is Right)

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#426580 - 07/15/10 08:27 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: HGaunt]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 6999
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
Originally Posted By: Lu_Safyr
I believe, and please correct me if I am wrong, that Anton LaVey had stated something quite beautiful in response to questions about the Zodiac Killer. If I am not mistaken he said something along the lines of "...maybe he just likes to hunt people."

I think that is a simple, yet brilliant, summing up of most serial killers.


Exactly! That may be what causes these people to be objects of fixation. It's the "this can't be all there is to it" thing.
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#426584 - 07/15/10 09:18 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: Roho_the_Rooster]
Witch_Scarlet Offline

CoS Witch

Registered: 01/09/06
Posts: 787
Loc: Texas
What makes them fascinating is the sheer fact that they have done something that many people fantasize about but would never be able to or have the guts to carry out. It is the ultimate taboo, not the act of killing a person that is average at best. It is however the act of realizing a fantasy, a desire that society condemns as evil, sick or unacceptable in one fashion or another and not giving a damn. Most people can’t achieve that in their lives even though almost all people have desires or fantasies that would be deemed “taboo” “sick” “abnormal”, or at least they think they do. This is what makes most people curious and at times, obsessive with serial killers. They (the serial killer) brings his deepest darkest desires and fantasies to life. For the average person this is something they can never do. It extends to every day desires of a sexual nature as well as a societal one. Most people are terrified that “someone” will find out what it is they truly want/desire in life, who they really are, so they hide behind polite politically correct lives and pretend to be in shock when a serial killer is active or caught. Truth is, they want to know all about his crimes, his desires, his life because they are afraid of and can never allow their true self, their inner desires and fantasies to come out into the open so they live their own fantasies or desire vicariously through the life of the serial killer. They may not dream of killing and torturing strangers, but they equate their own hidden desires on the same level.

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#426868 - 07/18/10 11:18 PM Re: Serial Killers [Re: Witch_Scarlet]
Pablovilla Offline



Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 267
Loc: Victorville, California
It was not so long ago that George Carlin, in the book When will Jesus bring the pork chops. Said that he got a great entertainment value out of serial killers, he said that they are caught because they mess up, the need to kill each one differently, in a different city, driving a different vehicle, and not kill ones that look alike, etc.

Also something that I have noticed from watching TV.

Besides it is interesting the level of fear that people get from only one killer, everyone gets very frightened thinking that they will be next. When calculated the odds of becomming a victim are less than the chances of winning the lottery, or being struck by lightning. Fear is irrational in most, you are more likely to be stuck and killed in a crosswalk in Los Angeles than shot, but more people worry about being shot by a theif.

So far out of the people that I have known that have died young, it has been from heart attack, prolonged drug abuse, cancer, accidents, and gun shots in that order. However still more people fear the stalker, and I'm wondering if it is that public fear that drives killers to do it in the first place?


Edited by paul_r (07/18/10 11:19 PM)
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Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result - Ben Franklin

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#426875 - 07/19/10 04:07 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: Pablovilla]
Bliss Offline


Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 26
Loc: Colorado
Paul R makes an excellent point. Fear is power, put simply.

I'm curious enough to consider looking up which ones are alive on death row I could write and ask.

BRB, writing serial killers.

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#427246 - 07/23/10 07:09 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: Witch_Scarlet]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1688
Loc: Denmark
I agree with your post in many ways, but I don't agree 100% because I do believe that we all are different.

However, I also think many people have some kind of violent side hidden inside them, but if you are wise, then you don't go around attacking people.

Nope, you will solve your problems through conversation, or through art, or other positive ways.

You will solve your problems in a way that will reward you, instead of creating problems for yourself.

I personally have no need to have any hidden desires, I do what feels right for me, and I guess that I'm lucky because my passions isn't illegal.

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#427249 - 07/23/10 09:14 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: Pablovilla]
Diana Offline


Registered: 07/23/10
Posts: 1
Wonderful analogy on the topic

It is exactly that, average individuals fear the leader rather than the group. Even stranger, they would be more likely to fear a bear's claws, rather than its teeth. It's not just rationality they lack, but common sense as well. The further time progress, the dumber we seem to get and in retrospect, its only to be expected. George Carlin happens to be one of my favorite comedian's of all time (though we know it wasn't just for shits and giggles that he became a comedian in the first place).

I honestly believe that much of society do not actually fear the possibility of it happening to them as much as they fear how other's will view them if they are not afraid. We live in a socialized world and a good citizen is largely measured on what they all have in common with each other. The first, which we all know, is religion/belief, second is income/occupancy, but third factor, which plays a big role in this topic, is outlook/point of view. If they cannot share the same feelings/outlooks toward the subject then they are not of the same caliber in the other's eyes.

Gotta love moral values.
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#427250 - 07/23/10 09:28 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: LightAngel]
LordofDarkness Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 760
Loc: Tennessee, U.S.
Quote:
I personally have no need to have any hidden desires, I do what feels right for me, and I guess that I'm lucky because my passions isn't illegal.


That seems reasonable. I mean that's all we can do.

However I would like to consider a quote from Peter Gilmore concerning myself on the matter:

Originally Posted By: Peter Gilmore
Pragmatism is axiomatic to our system; we are realists. So the idealism of "just do whatever feels good" is exposed by Satanists as a childish recipe for personal disaster. - The Satanic Scriptures page 192 "Rebels Without Cause"
_________________________

"Any group or collective, large or small, is only a number of individuals. A group can have no rights other than the rights of its individual members." - Ayn Rand

"Laws are there for a reason. You may not agree with them but you gotta obey them. Nobody wants to be in court." - Sonic the Hedgehog

"Satanism is not a white light religion; it is a religion of the flesh, the mundane, the carnal - all of which are ruled by Satan, the personification of the Left Hand Path." - Magus LaVey

"Test Everything, Believe Nothing." -

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#427579 - 07/27/10 06:17 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: LordofDarkness]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1688
Loc: Denmark
It's a very nice quote.

For me it's all about balance, the balance between work and play, and when my work also turn into play, then it's as close to perfect as it gets.

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#427715 - 07/29/10 06:51 AM Catalonia votes to ban all forms of bullfighting [Re: LightAngel]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1688
Loc: Denmark
Yay, finally, I'm very happy about this news.

And I will post it inside this topic, because in a peculiar way it's very suitable, in my eyes anyway witch

''Catalonia votes to ban all forms of bullfighting in nationalist move

Animal rights groups are celebrating, but fans say the ruling is nothing but a desire to be un-Spanish

By Anita Brooks

In a tense, historic vote, Catalonia's regional parliament yesterday banned Spain's "national fiesta" – bullfighting, handing a victory to animal rights activists, who predicted the start of a bloodless era across the country.


As of 1 January 2012, the choreographed estocada de muerte – or death knell – will be history throughout the wealthy, independent-minded region and the fighting bull – toro bravo – will receive protection under Catalonia's animal rights laws. The 96-year-old Monumental bullring in Barcelona has already demanded more than €300m (£250m) from the regional government to compensate for losses.

"Today five centuries of cruelty have come to an end," said Elena Escoda,''

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/...ve-2037998.html

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#427771 - 07/29/10 06:05 PM Re: Serial Killers [Re: LightAngel]
Francis Offline


Registered: 07/29/10
Posts: 7
Loc: Los Angeles CA
I think serial killers are just crazy people, that used being crazy as an excused for their crimes.

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#428141 - 08/03/10 06:26 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: Francis]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1688
Loc: Denmark
When my parents was young, then a broken leg was very easy for everybody to understand, but when people had a broken mind, then they were being judged so hard by ignorant people. - Ignorant people isn't evil of course, but they are very unable to show compassion, because they don't have the intelligence to understand, unless they have felt it themselves on their own body.

Today I still see this ignorance when it comes to mental sick people, it's a little less now than when my parents was young, but it's still here. I been working with mental sick people, so I have seen their pain with my own eyes, and their disease is as real as a broken leg, if not worse.

It's true that some people pretend to be ''crazy''... but it's not very often that happen, most of the time they really are crazy.


Edited by LightAngel (08/03/10 07:11 AM)

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#428145 - 08/03/10 07:40 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: LightAngel]
verszou Offline



Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 1814
Loc: Denmark
I got a question from a co-worker the other day in relation to serial killers. He is an atheist and a skeptic so he tries to be rational about things, but after watching "Dexter" for a few seasons and looking at various documentaries he was still puzzled about the behavior of serial killers once caught.

His question was "Why do they prefer to serve several consecutive life sentences, as opposed to the death penalty".

Apparently he had observed that they would often try to strike some kind of deal that would get them life imprisonment.

What puzzled him was that after doing what they had done, they would want to be in prison instead of just saying, "well, that was fun, I'm done here" and take the chair.

My own take on this was that even for a killer there is a survival instinct, a sort of perspective that allows you to think of the possibility of escape or possibly pardon.

Of course this reasoning sort of runs counter to the choice to start something that would put you in prison in the first place.
_________________________
While having never invented a sin, I'm trying to perfect several.

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#428150 - 08/03/10 08:40 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: verszou]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 6999
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
Verszou...as I'm sure you've noticed, people rarely make rational choices.
I would suppose someone who made a habit of doing others bodily harm does not have a keen sense of empathy. Why would they want to be done away with, even though they did away with others? That would would be an empathetic connection.
OR...maybe prison food is really, really good.
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"Life is the only race you lose by reaching the end." - M.M.

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#428154 - 08/03/10 09:03 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: Roho_the_Rooster]
verszou Offline



Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 1814
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: Roho_the_Rooster
Verszou...as I'm sure you've noticed, people rarely make rational choices.


Indeed smile

Originally Posted By: Roho_the_Rooster

OR...maybe prison food is really, really good.


I actually suggested to him that they might enjoy a certain status in prison. If you've killed enough people you get fame and a certain amount of attention. Even our local smalltime serial killer Peter Lundin got marriage offers, women wanting to have his kids and so on.
_________________________
While having never invented a sin, I'm trying to perfect several.

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#428158 - 08/03/10 09:22 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: verszou]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 6999
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
Originally Posted By: verszou
Even our local smalltime serial killer Peter Lundin got marriage offers, women wanting to have his kids and so on.



Ain't stupidity awesomely entertaining...as long as you don't have to be in the same room with it?
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"Life is the only race you lose by reaching the end." - M.M.

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#428161 - 08/03/10 09:32 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: verszou]
Spelled Moon
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: verszou
Of course this reasoning sort of runs counter to the choice to start something that would put you in prison in the first place.

If serial killer would reason like this, it would be wise.

intelligence
- The capacity to acquire and apply knowledge.

wisdom
- The ability to discern or judge what is true, right, or lasting; insight.
- Common sense; good judgment:

They can be intelligent to make plans that work for what they want to do and they can be able to think up how to escape the police and the sentence for some time, but since they commit crimes that are going to get them imprisoned sooner or later, they apparently miss the wisdom and moderation.

Wise reasoning probably can not be expected from criminals.

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#428163 - 08/03/10 10:01 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: LightAngel]
M.D. Roche Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 513
Loc: Albany, New York
Although not technically a serial killer, I find Jim Jones rather fascinating. Anyone who can arrange a mass suicide of nearly 100 followers has to be a master at the art of manipulation. Then again, a bunch of his followers were forced to drink the "special punch" and didn't really have much of a choice in the matter.
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#428165 - 08/03/10 11:07 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: M.D. Roche]
John Prophet Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 996
Loc: My suburban lair
Originally Posted By: M.D. Roche
Anyone who can arrange a mass suicide of nearly 100 followers has to be a master at the art of manipulation. Then again, a bunch of his followers were forced to drink the "special punch" and didn't really have much of a choice in the matter.

Of course that also means that he would’ve had to convince a certain number of people to not only drink it themselves; but to force those other followers to drink it (not to mention that he got all of those people to move down there to the jungle with him in the first place; that’s gotta count for some manipulation points).

Edit: According to that article you linked to, it was more like 900 followers.


Edited by John Prophet (08/03/10 11:12 AM)
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#428166 - 08/03/10 11:21 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: Witch_Scarlet]
DanielM Offline



Registered: 07/20/10
Posts: 24
Loc: Kintuhkee, Yew-Ess-Ay
Originally Posted By: I'mPerfecting
Why are killers the only focus of the media? [...] News broadcasts and reports only highlight serial killers, without ever looking at other crimes with the same seemingly incurable repetitious disorder. I was bring it up to point out there are more than just killers who can fall into the same "serial" criminal category, that in itself is the disorder.


Originally Posted By: Witch_Scarlet
What makes them fascinating is the sheer fact that they have done something that many people fantasize about but would never be able to or have the guts to carry out. It is the ultimate taboo, not the act of killing a person that is average at best. It is however the act of realizing a fantasy, a desire that society condemns as evil, sick or unacceptable in one fashion or another and not giving a damn. [...] Most people are terrified that “someone” will find out what it is they truly want/desire in life, who they really are, so they hide behind polite politically correct lives and pretend to be in shock when a serial killer is active or caught.


I'll go along with that, but I'll also go further. IMHO, ordinary people don't just do this to cover up. Damning the outcast is a constant in human society, whether it's a bunch of thirteen-year-olds tormenting the fat kid, a gaggle of office gossips clucking around the water cooler, or a gang of good ole' boys snickering at their town's "village idiot." It's one way that herd animals reaffirm their herd membership, by pointing at the outcast and reassuring each other, "see, we're not like that."
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#428168 - 08/03/10 11:36 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: verszou]
HGaunt Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 03/19/08
Posts: 98
Loc: Sin City
Originally Posted By: verszou
My own take on this was that even for a killer there is a survival instinct, a sort of perspective that allows you to think of the possibility of escape or possibly pardon.


I would add to that thought, Verszou. Perhaps a hunter of the most dangerous game would have an even more acute survival instinct than those who buy beef pre-packaged and have never had the oppurtunity to kill anything. For instance, one generally notices a soldier or police officer becomes even more hyper-aware of their surroundings and exhibits a more tactical style of thinking after killing the first time. Could it be that the act of killing one's fellow man unlocks a piece of the beast inside of us in a way that cannot be recreated? I think it is a definite possiblity.
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#428169 - 08/03/10 11:38 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: John Prophet]
M.D. Roche Offline
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Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 513
Loc: Albany, New York
Oops, I forgot a zero. blush
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#428172 - 08/03/10 12:48 PM Re: Serial Killers [Re: HGaunt]
Spelled Moon
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Lu_Safyr
For instance, one generally notices a soldier or police officer becomes even more hyper-aware of their surroundings and exhibits a more tactical style of thinking after killing the first time. Could it be that the act of killing one's fellow man unlocks a piece of the beast inside of us in a way that cannot be recreated?


smile

When soldiers or policemen kill someone during their duty, they probably are in dangerous situation themselves.
I guess that once the person's existence is endangered, and the self-preservation performs on full operating speed, after such experience one wouldn't sense the life and its value the same, again.
If one enters dangerous situations repeatedly, then while being out of them, one doesn't have to feel the 'urge to kill', but for sure keeps inside the increased urge to defend the self.

About serial killers, they are beasts, the ones suffering from rabies... They can be interesting, but better to be observed with a lot of safety. Those who interact with them proximately... Honestly, I think I wouldn't have courage for doing a job which would put me in higher chances of contact with them, or criminals in general. It must feel like walking on minefield. I am glad and thankful that someone else decides willingly to do that. smile

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#428237 - 08/04/10 07:24 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: verszou]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1688
Loc: Denmark
Maybe this program is interesting for you, and maybe also for other people in here. I find it very interesting because it shows me another kind of human-animal.

I, Psychopath (Clip 1 of 5)


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#428464 - 08/07/10 03:02 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: verszou]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1688
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: verszou

I actually suggested to him that they might enjoy a certain status in prison. If you've killed enough people you get fame and a certain amount of attention. Even our local smalltime serial killer Peter Lundin got marriage offers, women wanting to have his kids and so on.



Charles Mansons View on Women


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#428466 - 08/07/10 03:16 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: LightAngel]
M.D. Roche Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 513
Loc: Albany, New York
His views are understandable, seeing as how Susan Atkins and her big mouth were responsible for his indictment.
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#428471 - 08/07/10 04:54 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: M.D. Roche]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1688
Loc: Denmark
I think this is his general views on women.

He is afraid.



Edited by LightAngel (08/07/10 11:45 AM)

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#429159 - 08/14/10 04:39 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: LightAngel]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1688
Loc: Denmark
''Walter Sinnott-Armstrong is Professor of Philosophy and the Hardy Professor of Legal Studies at Dartmouth College, as well as the Co-director of the MacArthur Law and Neuroscience Project. His research interests include ethics, philosophy of law, epistemology, and informal logic. Currently he is working on moral psychology and brain science, and the uses and implications of neuroscience for legal systems. He has recently edited three volumes on the evolution, cognitive science and neuroscience of morality.''




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#430121 - 08/24/10 08:23 PM Re: Serial Killers [Re: LightAngel]
Fnord Offline


Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 211
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: LightAngel
These days I study serial killers, I read, I look at videos at YouTube etc.


Me too, been doing it for years actually.

Of all of the ones I've studied, the one who seems to understand his own pathology best is Edmund Kemper. He has an extremely high IQ and just listening to him speak is indicative enough of that.



I realized that studying killers is just a small part of the fascination that I have of people who live 'off the grid', so to speak. My wife insists it's a simple morbid fascination but it's not that at all that intrigues me. It's the motivation to kill and conversely, the motivation to catch killers (and all of the involved processes).

Fascinating stuff!

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#430698 - 08/31/10 11:14 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: Fnord]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1688
Loc: Denmark
I have questions, lots of questions!

He has a high IQ, but it didn't stop him from doing stupid things, it shows me how important emotional intelligence actually is.

Intelligence is many different things, but without emotional intelligence we will never be really happy inside.

Am I wrong, or right?! - I have questions jack

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#430708 - 08/31/10 12:23 PM Re: Serial Killers [Re: LightAngel]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
The simplified answer is yes. But the human brain is an incredibly complex machine. There are least I remember three main models of emotional Intelligence (EI):

1.) The Ability Based Model.
The ability to perceive emotion, integrate emotion to facilitate thought, understand emotions and to regulate emotions to promote personal growth.

2.) Mixed Models of EI
A wide array of competencies and skills that drive leadership performance.

3.) The Bar On Model
Being concerned with effectively understanding oneself and others, relating well to people, and adapting to and coping with the immediate surroundings to be more successful in dealing with environmental demands.

Each has been faced with criticism and each has its own challenge.

As we progress further in the understanding of the human brain we then can narrow down the answer to the question you have asked.


Edited by Unknown (08/31/10 12:25 PM)
Edit Reason: E
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#430833 - 09/01/10 10:31 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: LightAngel]
Fnord Offline


Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 211
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: LightAngel
I have questions, lots of questions!

He has a high IQ, but it didn't stop him from doing stupid things, it shows me how important emotional intelligence actually is.

Intelligence is many different things, but without emotional intelligence we will never be really happy inside.

Am I wrong, or right?! - I have questions jack


The workings of the human mind is an endlessly fascinating subject, to be sure. I suspect that at the time, in the state he was in, whatever he was doing seemed quite reasonable to him, or if not, he was able to justify his actions to at least himself. You are quite correct, I think, in pointing out that IQ has little to do with stability. There is that enduring archetype of the crazy genius.

As for happiness, I think it's a fleeting emotion. People search for it as if they believe that it's a perpetual state but I would liken it to anger or sadness or any other fleeting emotion.

What I find most interesting about Kemper are his self analyses. He's quite adept at stepping outside of his own skin and illustrating what he sees. It's almost as if he's separate from himself yet trying to understand what he is.

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#430835 - 09/01/10 10:41 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: verszou]
Fnord Offline


Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 211
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: verszou

His question was "Why do they prefer to serve several consecutive life sentences, as opposed to the death penalty".


I'm no authority on any of this, but my overall gut feeling is that serial murderers perceive their own lives to be of tantamount importance. Their actions certainly bespeak this and underscore the idea that they perceive themselves to be 'real' and most other people as dependents in their reality. I think this is why they can kill without worrying overmuch about the effects on others. I suspect that for them, contemplating their own death is like most folks contemplating the end of the world.

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#431143 - 09/05/10 05:04 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: Unknown]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1688
Loc: Denmark
And I want to make the answer even more simple wink

Our emotional sensitivity will give us the ability to feel empathy, but it's our emotional intelligence that will help us to find out what is best to do.

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#431148 - 09/05/10 06:12 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: Fnord]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1688
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: Fnord
You are quite correct, I think, in pointing out that IQ has little to do with stability.


This all depend on WHAT kind of IQ we are talking about here?! - I do believe that a high emotional intelligence can create stability inside our minds, but only if we are mentally healthy and don't suffer from some kind of mental illness.

Originally Posted By: Fnord
What I find most interesting about Kemper are his self analyses. He's quite adept at stepping outside of his own skin and illustrating what he sees. It's almost as if he's separate from himself yet trying to understand what he is.


He is mental sick, and the disease is controlling his mind, and this shows how serious mental disorders can be.

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#431221 - 09/05/10 06:56 PM Re: Serial Killers [Re: LightAngel]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
Quote:
And I want to make the answer even more simple


That is fine but in order to make an incredibly complex topic into something incredibly simple you may miss out on important information.
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#431242 - 09/06/10 12:37 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: Unknown]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1688
Loc: Denmark
I do my best not to miss out on important information here, so I do study and analyse this topic completely, and I'm looking for all the information I can find. I also find the information you posted very important. I enjoy reading what other people find important, because maybe I missed out on something in my own analysis of a topic.

All the information is already stored inside my mind, I want to simplify all this information and keep my focus on what I find most important.

Because at the end of the day I always find my own personal answers to everything smile

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#431779 - 09/12/10 05:45 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: Witch_Scarlet]
JayLucif Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 11/09/02
Posts: 1705
Loc: Helheim
"What makes them fascinating is the sheer fact that they have done something that many people fantasize about but would never be able to or have the guts to carry out. It is the ultimate taboo, not the act of killing a person that is average at best. It is however the act of realizing a fantasy, a desire that society condemns as evil, sick or unacceptable in one fashion or another and not giving a damn. Most people can’t achieve that in their lives even though almost all people have desires or fantasies that would be deemed “taboo” “sick” “abnormal”, or at least they think they do. This is what makes most people curious and at times, obsessive with serial killers. They (the serial killer) brings his deepest darkest desires and fantasies to life. For the average person this is something they can never do. It extends to every day desires of a sexual nature as well as a societal one. Most people are terrified that “someone” will find out what it is they truly want/desire in life, who they really are, so they hide behind polite politically correct lives and pretend to be in shock when a serial killer is active or caught. Truth is, they want to know all about his crimes, his desires, his life because they are afraid of and can never allow their true self, their inner desires and fantasies to come out into the open so they live their own fantasies or desire vicariously through the life of the serial killer. They may not dream of killing and torturing strangers, but they equate their own hidden desires on the same level." posted by Witch_Scarlet

Fantastic response, I know this is probable a cheesy comparison, but there is a scene in the movie Se7en where there is an intense exchange of words between John Doe the 7 sins serial killer and Detective David Mills and Detective Lt. William Somerset.

Some of my favorite lines that strikes me from that dialogue is:
"John Doe: It's more comfortable for you to label me as insane."
"John Doe: Innocent? Is that supposed to be funny? An obese man... a disgusting man who could barely stand up; a man who if you saw him on the street, you'd point him out to your friends so that they could join you in mocking him; a man, who if you saw him while you were eating, you wouldn't be able to finish your meal. After him, I picked the lawyer and I know you both must have been secretly thanking me for that one. This is a man who dedicated his life to making money by lying with every breath that he could muster to keeping murderers and rapists on the streets![interrupts] A woman... so ugly on the inside she couldn't bear to go on living if she couldn't be beautiful on the outside. A drug dealer, a drug dealing pederast, actually! And let's not forget the disease-spreading whore! Only in a world this shitty could you even try to say these were innocent people and keep a straight face. But that's the point. We see a deadly sin on every street corner, in every home, and we tolerate it. We tolerate it because it's common, it's trivial. We tolerate it morning, noon, and night. Well, not anymore. I'm setting the example. What I've done is going to be puzzled over and studied and followed... forever."
"John Doe: Realize detective, the only reason that I'm here right now is that I wanted to be."
"John Doe: What sick ridiculous puppets we are / and what gross little stage we dance on / What fun we have dancing and fucking / Not a care in the world / Not knowing that we are nothing / We are not what was intended."
"John Doe: Wanting people to listen, you can't just tap them on the shoulder anymore. You have to hit them with a sledgehammer, and then you'll notice you've got their strict attention."

There is also part in the dialogue about John Doe showing detective Mills about how both of them are not all that different from each other, about how Mills would enjoy Hurting Doe within a locked room and the only reason that Mills does not do so is only that he fears the consequences of those actions. The proof in this part of the dialogue is shown when Mills finds out that John Doe has killed he's wife and unborn child, he cares not for the consequences now and executes John Doe by emptying hes gun clip into he's face. Losing he's wife over murder was he's only fear from not hurting Doe. I think the film shows that everyone has a thin line that they can cross or be pushed over and when crossed you can never go back again.

Even though this is a weak example based on this movie. I think this movies fantastic Job of showing just how much Serial Killers enjoy the games of manipulation as well. The Zodiac Killer, The BTK and other serial killers loved to taunt and try and manipulate the media and society based on their killings. Even Charles Manson loved to use the media as a tool of manipulation, long after the deeds the media churns out books and articles on the Manson family killings. Just like Adolf Hitler these kinds of acts always draw a crowd.


Edited by JayLucif (09/12/10 05:51 AM)
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Freedom, baby is never having to say you're sorry. Guilt is like a bag of fuckin' bricks. All ya gotta do is set it down. John Milton - The Devil's Advocate!

I'm gonna pull the whole thing down. I'm gonna bring the whole fuckin' diseased, corrupt temple down on your head. It's gonna be biblical. Clyde Shelton - Law Abiding Citizen!


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#431780 - 09/12/10 06:37 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: JayLucif]
Shade Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/08/06
Posts: 6135
Loc: A Trailer Park
Originally Posted By: Witch_Scarlet
What makes them fascinating is the sheer fact that they have done something that many people fantasize about but would never be able to or have the guts to carry out.


I think the case could also be made that this is what serial killers would like to believe so as not to appear quite so pathetic. "I'm really not an impotent cowardly loser because society envies me."
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#431781 - 09/12/10 07:07 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: Shade]
Original Sly Offline


Registered: 09/10/09
Posts: 205
Loc: New Zealand
Quote:
I think the case could also be made that this is what serial killers would like to believe so as not to appear quite so pathetic. "I'm really not an impotent cowardly loser because society envies me."


And that's a case I'd be much more interested in seeing fleshed out and discussed. smile

In what ways do serial killers justify their actions, and just how easy is it that those seemingly intelligent justifications fool the herd into some kind of empathy and identifying with the killer?
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#431784 - 09/12/10 07:49 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: Fnord]
Machismo Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/05/10
Posts: 1132
Loc: New Jersey
My favored hypothesis regarding serial killers is that, subconsciously, they are tormenting and killing, and, if applicable, raping or cannibalizing one or both of their parents. It interests me that Kemper killed his mother for real.
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#431790 - 09/12/10 09:32 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: LightAngel]
MagdaGraham Offline
CoS Priestess

Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 13369
Loc: Scotland
Serial killers want to control, but are too dimwitted to comprehend that a dead person is forever beyond their control.
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#431793 - 09/12/10 09:47 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: Original Sly]
Shade Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/08/06
Posts: 6135
Loc: A Trailer Park
I read about serial (and non-serial) killers all the time. Unfortunately, sometimes people mistake my curiosity for respect. Lots of interesting questions surrounding this topic though. Like the nature of disgust, how we use it to domesticate and socialize each other and how it varies culture to culture (Sagawa became a celebrity after eating and dismembering the Dutch girl but, you know, that's Japan). Or this group's peculiar skill set - the ability to compartmentalize, their genuine apathy and, for some, the delightfully oxymoronic talent of “acting naturally”.

Their fatal flaw is written in their label though. I envy serial killers about as much as I envy crack-heads; they’re both slaves to their addictions, both have that kind of obsessive tunnel vision that is slow suicide. That's the opposite of power. I think it's tempting to paint a portrait of some misunderstood Robin Hood over the face of a dishonorable thief. Then, if similarities are seen, they won't be quite so ugly and unflattering.

Or something. I really don't know. So I keep reading... grin
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"What happens in the shadow, in the grey regions, also interests us – all that is elusive and fugitive, all that can be said in those beautiful half tones, or in whispers, in deep shade." ~ The Brothers Quay

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#431817 - 09/12/10 12:51 PM Re: Serial Killers [Re: Shade]
Direktor Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/12/08
Posts: 499
Quote:
Unfortunately, sometimes people mistake my curiosity for respect.


This happens to me more times than I can think of.

To chime in on this thread, for roughly three years or so I regularly corresponded with Richard Ramirez. Originally out of sheer curiosity. I also (briefly) corresponded with Leslie Van Houten from the Manson family.

Regarding Ramirez, contrary to other killers, he's not a very bright man. For example, he does read your basic Nietzsche but other works on philosophy completely elude him. Most of the letters I received were friendly enough, but most (though not all) contained a simple one line answer to any question I had, followed then by ten questions he had for me, followed by the request to send him anything that would entice sexual interest (ex. magazines). This would usually be a back and forth game, he would send me artwork in exchange for material. He seemed unable to carry on any real, intellectual conversation, at times it very much felt that I was corresponding with a juvenile.

The only time I did not send him material was when he asked for pages from high school yearbooks.
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"I have studied many philosophers and many cats. The wisdom of cats is infinitely superior."
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#431860 - 09/12/10 08:59 PM Re: Serial Killers [Re: Shade]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
Quote:
I envy serial killers about as much as I envy crack-heads; they’re both slaves to their addictions, both have that kind of obsessive tunnel vision that is slow suicide.


I agree with Shade.

It has been said that knowledge is power but not everyone knows how to use their knowledge in a self productive way. Some serial killers are smarter than others. Yet the results between the smart ones and the dumb ones remain the same.
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#431862 - 09/12/10 09:58 PM Re: Serial Killers [Re: Original Sly]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
Quote:
In what ways do serial killers justify their actions


Good question!

I don't know enough to answer this but I think it's one worth looking into!

I know that most serial killers have a chemical imbalance in their brain mixed with a fucked up childhood. So they really can't offer a justification to themselves in some cases. In other cases I think with the right guidance and parenting they can be helped to some extent. This is what Dr. Park Dietz (world renowned FBI psychologist) has suggested when he spoke with Richard Kuklinski.

Quote:
and just how easy is it that those seemingly intelligent justifications fool the herd into some kind of empathy and identifying with the killer?


I think it is because the herd are so impressionable as a result of their weak egos. Their lives are so dull and boring that they try to take up an identity that they believe is more exciting than their own. Perhaps an alter ego to some extent.
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#432045 - 09/14/10 11:56 PM Re: Serial Killers [Re: MagdaGraham]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1688
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: MagdaGraham
Serial killers want to control, but are too dimwitted to comprehend that a dead person is forever beyond their control.


What a simple way to tell some truth, very nice.

Anyway, I think most serial killers has the mind of a child in some odd way, they can't separate their fantasy world with the real world, and they always have controle in their fantasy world.

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#432613 - 09/21/10 04:36 PM Re: Serial Killers [Re: LightAngel]
munt Offline


Registered: 09/13/10
Posts: 23
Loc: Land of viscosity
A serial killer could be suffering from the conventional definition of solipsism. (I find Dr LaVeys' definition confusing).
It's his reality therefore he can do anything with it without consequence.
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#432806 - 09/23/10 06:11 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: munt]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1688
Loc: Denmark
Interesting......

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#433590 - 09/30/10 08:44 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: LightAngel]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1688
Loc: Denmark
This film isn't about serial killers, but it's about mental diseases, and I think many serial killers are mental sick, so I want to share.

Sally field is great here.

Enjoy.

Sybil (1976 - Part 1)


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#433592 - 09/30/10 09:28 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: LightAngel]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 6999
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
If you have not read the book, I can recommend it. An interesting look at a controversial disease.

A tidbit I found interesting. Multiple Personality Disorder is considered an neurosis, not a psychosis. At least, not when I studied the subject many moons ago.
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#433982 - 10/03/10 12:56 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: Roho_the_Rooster]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1688
Loc: Denmark
I think I will read it, because books often inspire our imagination better than films.

But normally I would read the book before I see the film...... we all have our little habits wink

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#436052 - 10/24/10 04:39 AM Are you..... for, or against the death penalty?! [Re: LightAngel]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1688
Loc: Denmark
I know this topic is dying now, but I want to post one last thing.

After seeing this, then I wonder if you people are for or against the death penalty?! - I understand if nobody wants to answer this.- I'm just curious as always.

John Bunting - Worst Australian Serial Killer - 1


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#436053 - 10/24/10 05:19 AM Re: Are you..... for, or against the death penalty?! [Re: LightAngel]
Venom Offline


Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 295
Loc: In the Belly of the Beast.
Originally Posted By: LightAngel
I know this topic is dying now, but I want to post one last thing.

After seeing this, then I wonder if you people are for or against the death penalty?! - I understand if nobody wants to answer this.- I'm just curious as always.




I certainly am for the death penalty and I think most satanists would be aswell.
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#436082 - 10/24/10 01:21 PM Re: Are you..... for, or against the death penalty?! [Re: LightAngel]
Lust Offline


Registered: 11/02/05
Posts: 4214
I am a supporter of Lex Talionis. Let the punishment fit the crime. If it is death, then I say it should be executed within an hour after sentencing. The cost of execution should also be billed to the family of the executed.
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Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible

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#436093 - 10/24/10 02:40 PM Re: Are you..... for, or against the death penalty?! [Re: Lust]
Riddles Offline


Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 82
Loc: Maryland
Originally Posted By: Venom
Originally Posted By: LightAngel
I know this topic is dying now, but I want to post one last thing.

After seeing this, then I wonder if you people are for or against the death penalty?! - I understand if nobody wants to answer this.- I'm just curious as always.




I certainly am for the death penalty and I think most satanists would be aswell.


Political views of Satanists vary greatly ranging all the way from Anarchism to Totalitarianism. However, certain political views do seem to "fit" Satanism more than others. So I would definitely agree that most Satanists support the death penalty.

Originally Posted By: Tier Instinct
I am a supporter of Lex Talionis. Let the punishment fit the crime. If it is death, then I say it should be executed within an hour after sentencing. The cost of execution should also be billed to the family of the executed.


Within the hour seems too short. I think criminals should be given the opportunity to appeal if they feel the trial is unfair, but it should not be extended to ridiculous extremes (Richard Ramirez is STILL alive??!!) Texas has a decent system. Prisoners are given a chance to appeal, but Texans don't waste too much time. Hang 'em high.

I don't think that the family of the executed should take care of the bill. Poor childrearing can be a factor, but many serial killers come from good families, and you can't necessarily blame their family. Responsibility to the responsible...
_________________________
"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first."
--Mark Twain

"Egoism is the very essence of a noble soul."
--Friedrich Nietzsche

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#436098 - 10/24/10 03:20 PM Re: Are you..... for, or against the death penalty?! [Re: Riddles]
Lust Offline


Registered: 11/02/05
Posts: 4214
"Within the hour seems too short."

Yes it does and I am positive that criminals would agree with you. This just might get them to think first. If someone is innocent then they can prove that in court.

"I don't think that the family of the executed should take care of the bill. Poor childrearing can be a factor, but many serial killers come from good families, and you can't necessarily blame their family. Responsibility to the responsible..."

Law abiding Citizens are currently picking up this bill. I imagine most criminals are aware of that too. If they know that their Mother/Father, Brother/Sister, Aunt/Uncle or Legal Guradian will have to pay, then, again, it just might get them to think twice before they act. My methods may seem harsh but so is reality.




Edited by Tier Instinct (10/24/10 03:34 PM)
_________________________
�Love is one of the most intense feelings felt by man; another is hate. Forcing yourself to feel indiscriminate love is very unnatural. If you try to love everyone you only lessen your feelings for those who deserve your love. Repressed hatred can lead to many physical and emotional aliments. By learning to release your hatred towards those who deserve it, you cleanse yourself of these malignant emotions and need not take your pent-up hatred out on your loved ones.�
Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible

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#436102 - 10/24/10 03:36 PM Re: Are you..... for, or against the death penalty?! [Re: LightAngel]
XUL Offline


Registered: 12/12/09
Posts: 238
Loc: Oslo, Norway
Originally Posted By: LightAngel
for or against the death penalty?


Definitely against.

If you think somebody deserves to die, then you kill them. You do the deed. This I don't mind at all. But... if you won't or can't then to hell with you. The death penalty isn't a "penalty" per se, it's a ritual human sacrifice which is (and always were) designed to support the authority and ferocity of a governing body - and I, for one, am in no hurry to endowe those corrupt bastards with the power of life and death.

Yes of course there are people who deserve to be killed like eighteen times for what they have done ... but if you yourself don't actually have the power to do so then who do you think should have it? The people of impeccable judgement and ethical standards that run for election? Give me a fucking break. They can hardly be trusted to do what they're supposed to do with the budget so how on earth can you expect them to be wise in matters of fatal decisions?
_________________________
The Maxistic Paradigm

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#436117 - 10/24/10 04:36 PM Re: Are you..... for, or against the death penalty?! [Re: Lust]
Shade Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/08/06
Posts: 6135
Loc: A Trailer Park
Originally Posted By: Tier Instinct
If someone is innocent then they can prove that in court.


Like the West Memphis Three?
_________________________
"What happens in the shadow, in the grey regions, also interests us – all that is elusive and fugitive, all that can be said in those beautiful half tones, or in whispers, in deep shade." ~ The Brothers Quay

We're Just Regular People

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#436121 - 10/24/10 04:54 PM Re: Are you..... for, or against the death penalty?! [Re: Lust]
Riddles Offline


Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 82
Loc: Maryland
Originally Posted By: Tier Instinct

Law abiding Citizens are currently picking up this bill. I imagine most criminals are aware of that too. If they know that their Mother/Father, Brother/Sister, Aunt/Uncle or Legal Guradian will have to pay, then, again, it just might get them to think twice before they act. My methods may seem harsh but so is reality.




Do you really believe this? Would this really be a significant deterrent? I never realized serial killers were so ethical.

If the family of the killer pays for the bill, then we would still be in a situation where "law-abiding citizens pick up the bill". The only clear way to avoid this is to have the prisoner perform work or service to pay for the bill of his or her own execution.

Originally Posted By: Shade
Originally Posted By: Tier Instinct
If someone is innocent then they can prove that in court.


Like the West Memphis Three?


Slam dunk.
_________________________
"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first."
--Mark Twain

"Egoism is the very essence of a noble soul."
--Friedrich Nietzsche

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#436125 - 10/24/10 05:33 PM Re: Are you..... for, or against the death penalty?! [Re: Lust]
Colonel Kurtz Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 192
Originally Posted By: Tier Instinct
"Within the hour seems too short."


An interesting fact. In Japan the date of execution is kept secret, even to the family of the condemned and the family of the victim.

You'd awake to be told it's your last day of life, and given the choice of the last meal.

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#436126 - 10/24/10 05:36 PM Re: Are you..... for, or against the death penalty?! [Re: Shade]
Lust Offline


Registered: 11/02/05
Posts: 4214
I am only familiar with the documentary that I seen on HBO. I have my opinions and they are similar to others that I have heard and read.
_________________________
�Love is one of the most intense feelings felt by man; another is hate. Forcing yourself to feel indiscriminate love is very unnatural. If you try to love everyone you only lessen your feelings for those who deserve your love. Repressed hatred can lead to many physical and emotional aliments. By learning to release your hatred towards those who deserve it, you cleanse yourself of these malignant emotions and need not take your pent-up hatred out on your loved ones.�
Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible

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#436128 - 10/24/10 05:44 PM Re: Are you..... for, or against the death penalty?! [Re: Colonel Kurtz]
Riddles Offline


Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 82
Loc: Maryland
Originally Posted By: Riddles


Originally Posted By: Shade
Originally Posted By: Tier Instinct
If someone is innocent then they can prove that in court.


Like the West Memphis Three?


Slam dunk.


A quick clarification. I do not believe that trials are necessarily fair. I like the appeals process because it provides an extra safety net against injustice. Also, the appeals process can take quite some time.

For example, I once saw a show on a purported rapist who was convicted on circumstantial evidence. The 14-year-old girl who claimed to have been raped, when shown a line-up, said "I don't know. All black people look the same to me." Then she finally picked out the one person in the line-up who happened to be wearing handcuffs. Additionally, there was a suppressed medical report which stated that the "victim" was still a virgin. The accused man was convicted and spent several years fighting his case. The "incident" happened sometime in the 50's or 60's, and last I heard, he's still in prison. I'm sure I don't know all of the details of the case, and maybe there is evidence I'm not aware of, but injustices do occur, and the appeals process, while not perfect, can deal with at least some of these cases.

Originally Posted By: Colonel Kurtz
Originally Posted By: Tier Instinct
"Within the hour seems too short."


An interesting fact. In Japan the date of execution is kept secret, even to the family of the condemned and the family of the victim.

You'd awake to be told it's your last day of life, and given the choice of the last meal.


That sounds sadistic. I love it. Well, at least provided the minimum amount of time allows time for appeals.
_________________________
"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first."
--Mark Twain

"Egoism is the very essence of a noble soul."
--Friedrich Nietzsche

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#436130 - 10/24/10 05:47 PM Re: Are you..... for, or against the death penalty?! [Re: Riddles]
Lust Offline


Registered: 11/02/05
Posts: 4214
I was not limiting my answer to Serial Killers. I should have thought about that in reflect. I thought the question was a general one. For or against the death penalty.
_________________________
�Love is one of the most intense feelings felt by man; another is hate. Forcing yourself to feel indiscriminate love is very unnatural. If you try to love everyone you only lessen your feelings for those who deserve your love. Repressed hatred can lead to many physical and emotional aliments. By learning to release your hatred towards those who deserve it, you cleanse yourself of these malignant emotions and need not take your pent-up hatred out on your loved ones.�
Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible

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#436131 - 10/24/10 05:48 PM Re: Are you..... for, or against the death penalty?! [Re: Lust]
Riddles Offline


Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 82
Loc: Maryland
Originally Posted By: Tier Instinct
I was not limiting my answer to Serial Killers. I should have thought about that in reflect. I thought the question was a general one. For or against the death penalty.



I don't think the death penalty should be limited to only murderers, let alone serial killers.

Edit:
Maybe this makes me an "oddball", but I've always thought rape was a greater crime than murder. In fact, I don't think murder is necessarily inherently wrong. The only reason I am completely against murder in today's society is because there is a high chance the person will get caught, so murder to me is only a sin because it violates the first Satanic sin (stupidity), although of course, specific murders may be wrong for other reasons as well. That's why we have curses. coopdevil


Edited by Riddles (10/24/10 05:55 PM)
_________________________
"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first."
--Mark Twain

"Egoism is the very essence of a noble soul."
--Friedrich Nietzsche

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#436147 - 10/24/10 09:06 PM Re: Are you..... for, or against the death penalty?! [Re: XUL]
Citizen Jonesy Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/22/02
Posts: 995
Loc: Palm Springs, California, USA
Quote:
If you think somebody deserves to die, then you kill them.


Gladly!
_________________________
Hail Satan!
Jonesy
I° Member, Church Of Satan
Webmaster
The 8FoldPath Network-Just updated

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#436156 - 10/25/10 12:13 AM Re: Are you..... for, or against the death penalty?! [Re: Riddles]
Original Sly Offline


Registered: 09/10/09
Posts: 205
Loc: New Zealand
I also think rape is a greater crime than murder. It's utterly revolting.

And I agree with you that the family of the murderer shouldn't foot the bill of their execution. To call that particular hypothetical a deterrent to the murderer is misguided solipsism.
_________________________
"It stands to reason that where there's sacrifice, there's someone collecting sacrificial offerings" - Ellsworth Toohey, Ayn Rand's The Fountainhead p.637

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#436162 - 10/25/10 01:31 AM Re: Are you..... for, or against the death penalty?! [Re: LightAngel]
SomethingLikEvil Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/25/08
Posts: 579
I support death for all murderers, rapists, wife/child/man/animal beaters, druggies and drug dealers. . . well anyone who slushes around on the bottom of the barrel.
_________________________
Resigned -- again.

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#436167 - 10/25/10 05:44 AM Re: Are you..... for, or against the death penalty?! [Re: Lust]
Shade Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/08/06
Posts: 6135
Loc: A Trailer Park
Originally Posted By: Tier Instinct
I have my opinions and they are similar to others that I have heard and read.


I don’t know what that means.

I’ve written on this board about my personal pro-death stance sort of ad nauseum so I didn’t really want to get into that again. Yes, I'm for it or whatever puts them to best use (medical testing, organ harvesting, etc).

So I can deeply empathize with your frustration. My comment sprung from this difficulty of mine to reconcile my frustration with the justice system's inadequacies with my reluctance to simplify things to black and white terms (as tempting as that is). I've got this strong, persistent suspicion that if we take away checks and balances we actually put ourselves in danger.

That said, I do share John Douglas’ view that folks should take a good long hard look at crime scene photos and autopsy reports, listen to a victim’s dying regressive behavior (calling out for mommy) as they beg for their lives, spend some time with these things before damning the death penalty.

Related to the original topic, I copied this quote down recently from Colin Wilson’s book “The Killers Among Us”. Thought it was interesting, along the lines of verszou's incredibly insightful observation about people's overblown sense of entitlement.

“... you could say that serial murder is the underachiever’s way of feeling a ‘somebody’. And to recognize this is suddenly to understand why there have been so many serial killers since the Second World War. For more than two centuries now, western society has insisted on the equality of man. But when there exists an enormous social gulf between rich and poor, this makes little practical difference. The ‘gentleman’ seems to be a gentleman by inborn right; the poor man may be his equal before the law, but he doesn’t feel it. Even if he happens to belong to the ‘dominant 5 per cent,’ he is still inclined to accept a sense of social inferiority.

Two world wars and the ‘caring society’ have changed all that. As social differences are erased by education -- and television -- everyone feels that he has some right to a share of the prizes. [...] But on our overcrowded planet, there is still as little ‘room at the top’ as ever. The result is an ever-increasing number of dominant personalities who feel alienated, frustrated and resentful. "
_________________________
"What happens in the shadow, in the grey regions, also interests us – all that is elusive and fugitive, all that can be said in those beautiful half tones, or in whispers, in deep shade." ~ The Brothers Quay

We're Just Regular People

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#436172 - 10/25/10 07:20 AM Re: Are you..... for, or against the death penalty?! [Re: Shade]
Lust Offline


Registered: 11/02/05
Posts: 4214
Originally Posted By: Shade
Originally Posted By: Tier Instinct
I have my opinions and they are similar to others that I have heard and read.


I don’t know what that means.



People get away with things and some go down for crimes they did not commit. It happens. I can only base opinions. The case based around the West Memphis 3 is no different and has no personal bearing on me at all.
_________________________
�Love is one of the most intense feelings felt by man; another is hate. Forcing yourself to feel indiscriminate love is very unnatural. If you try to love everyone you only lessen your feelings for those who deserve your love. Repressed hatred can lead to many physical and emotional aliments. By learning to release your hatred towards those who deserve it, you cleanse yourself of these malignant emotions and need not take your pent-up hatred out on your loved ones.�
Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible

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#436176 - 10/25/10 07:56 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: LightAngel]
TheDegenerate Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 3567
Loc: Cowtown
I always find it interesting when the topic of the death penalty comes up around here. Not so much because it's a fascinating debate, but because it is interesting to see just how full of bullshit some people are.

The instant, pre-packaged reaction (predictable too, I might add) is when people say, "give me the gun, and let me pull the trigger!" I know I myself have said this in the past as well, in exaggeration, usually when it pertains to some scumbag (usually someone killing animals) who I think would be better off dead at that point in time.

But realistically, for most of those people, if someone actually did put a gun in their hand and said "do it!" I am sure you could sit their and watch 90 percent of them pussy out. Why? Not because they are "weak" or some other nonsense, but because they aren't fucking psychopaths. People like to talk tough when it comes to Satanic justice, but I doubt most would have the wontons to follow through with any of it; and I think that is probably a good thing! Nothing scares me more than a lynch mob, and be it through vigilantism, or through government mandate, I really DON'T think we should be putting people to death for no reason.

And man, where some people would draw the line! Don't just kill murderers, kill rapists and drug dealers too! And while you are at it, kill drug users! Give me a fucking break, seriously. Don't get me wrong, NO LOVE for these people at all; but blowing some guy away because he dropped acid or smoked dope? It sounds ideal in maintaining a safe society, for sure. But in practice, no thank you.

I think the criminal justice system is flawed, definitely. But much of the time I am personally satisfied with the punishments that are handed out. There are of course plenty of unfair situations; for one thing, I DO think rape should be treated a lot CLOSER to murder than it is. However, rape is NOT murder, and the victims survive. I think rape should not be handled with death, but with castration and possibly slavery. That's right, slavery! Put those motherfuckers to WORK, MAKE them useful!

Anyways, I am just doing the same thing now with my own idealism. But I'm sure you get the gist of it. I'd rather see someone serve out his life behind bars than be so lucky as to get a bullet in the brain instead.

Plus, if someone DID put a gun in my hand and say "shoot this murderer", I am humble enough to admit that I WOULD pussy out, and would hand it back to them. If that makes me a pussy, I'm totally fine with that, and anyone who would think less of me for it can go fuck themselves. I have no desire to take life, even if it is from some scumbag.

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#436177 - 10/25/10 09:08 AM Re: Are you..... for, or against the death penalty?! [Re: Original Sly]
XUL Offline


Registered: 12/12/09
Posts: 238
Loc: Oslo, Norway
Originally Posted By: Original Sly
I also think rape is a greater crime than murder.


Call me a simpleton... but personally I'd rather be raped than murdered. And who knows? Maybe if my rapist was handsome and all that I'd even fall in love with him. *wink wink* Either way, I'd be alive to get raped another day - whereas if you're murdered, that's sort of it for you.

In Norway some years ago there was a case where a man had learned that somebody had been fiddling with his child - but was only sentenced to three years for this and left freewalking to wait for his time to come up - so he bought a knife and travelled 2000 miles to stab the culprit several times. For this he got a year in jail and hero status. He knew he would get jailed but he did it anyway. What can you say to that? That's real life. You don't even have to be a parent to sympathise with the stabber - even though he nearly became a murderer himself.

Things are not black and white. And if they seem so to you it's simply because you're not so intelligent. In dealing with offences, there's revenge and then there's repairs. Some of the time, some of the victims will be happy if repairs are paid - but at other times revenge is necessary. But to society at large both of those are irrelevant: To society at large the most important issue is to maintain and enforce the monopoly on violence.
_________________________
The Maxistic Paradigm

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#436189 - 10/25/10 10:56 AM Re: Are you..... for, or against the death penalty?! [Re: XUL]
Riddles Offline


Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 82
Loc: Maryland
Originally Posted By: XUL
Originally Posted By: Original Sly
I also think rape is a greater crime than murder.


Call me a simpleton... but personally I'd rather be raped than murdered. And who knows? Maybe if my rapist was handsome and all that I'd even fall in love with him. *wink wink* Either way, I'd be alive to get raped another day - whereas if you're murdered, that's sort of it for you.


In terms of consequences, sure, murder has the potential to be worse than rape.

However, I've definitely felt sympathy for murderers before. I can't say I've felt sympathy for any rapists.
_________________________
"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first."
--Mark Twain

"Egoism is the very essence of a noble soul."
--Friedrich Nietzsche

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#436205 - 10/25/10 01:23 PM Re: Are you..... for, or against the death penalty?! [Re: LightAngel]
Dax9 Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 780
Loc: near Baton Rouge, LA
Not only am I in favor of the death penalty, but I suggest that such convicted felons should be executed in a manner that is productive for the rest of society. Instead of subjugating laboratory animals to scientific and medical testing/research, convicted murderers should be utilized as guinea pigs. Further, after their death, their organs should be harvested and preserved for future transplants.

To be sure, the life of any animal is more valuable than the life of any condemned inmate.

I assert that serial rapists and repeat child molesters would also qualify for the above punishment.
_________________________
"The difference between the man or woman who's a practicing Satanist, from an identity Satanist is that the practicing Satanist looks at the picture, while the identity Satanist studies the frame."
-- Anton Szandor LaVey

"Anyone without a sense of humor is too pretentious to be a good magician."
-- Anton Szandor LaVey

Life Everlasting

World Without End





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#436207 - 10/25/10 02:18 PM Re: Are you..... for, or against the death penalty?! [Re: Dax9]
anna Offline


Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 222
Loc: Poland
Quote:
I assert that serial rapists and repeat child molesters would also qualify for the above punishment


There should be worse punishment for rapists than that.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/04/AR2006070400960.html





Edited by anna (10/25/10 02:19 PM)
_________________________
Just gonna stand there and watch me burn. Well that's alright because I like the way it hurts.

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#436208 - 10/25/10 02:33 PM Re: Are you..... for, or against the death penalty?! [Re: anna]
Riddles Offline


Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 82
Loc: Maryland
Originally Posted By: anna
Quote:
I assert that serial rapists and repeat child molesters would also qualify for the above punishment


There should be worse punishment for rapists than that.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/04/AR2006070400960.html





http://www.medievality.com/saw.html

Doesn't get much worse than that.
_________________________
"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first."
--Mark Twain

"Egoism is the very essence of a noble soul."
--Friedrich Nietzsche

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#436214 - 10/25/10 03:40 PM Re: Serial Killers [Re: TheDegenerate]
Delta Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/18/07
Posts: 6755
Loc: Nar
Originally Posted By: TheDegenerate
That's right, slavery! Put those motherfuckers to WORK, MAKE them useful!


I'm a very strong supporter of Lex Servilitas, as well as mandatory castration for sex offenders. When it comes to death I think it should be a choice, to some degree: For most sentences I'd give them the option. Most of the punishments we're discussing here are about ending lives- Be it a life in prison, a death sentence, these are situations where a human being is a waste and worse. In that case I advocate them being either thrown out or put to better use as a slave or test subject. But if we're full on slaves and test subjects, let them die fast and cheap. The option also deals with the appeals process- If they're guilty they can just die, if not they can live on to prove their innocence someday, all Shawshanky 'n shit. It's not easy or kind or the least bit 'humane' but I prefer it to innocents dead and criminals free. It also allows victims a greater and more practical vengeance- You killed someone I love or assaulted me? You're my slave forever. That's justice to me.

And just imagine all we could do with that new species of exploitable sub-humans! Whenever we need more we can just trump up charges and arrest our political enemies, it's really a perfect system.
_________________________






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#436217 - 10/25/10 04:23 PM Re: Serial Killers [Re: LightAngel]
SomethingLikEvil Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/25/08
Posts: 579
As I said, I do support the death penalty, but I also agree on putting these scummy people to use. As I stated in my book, I feel we should bring back gladitorial combat, let them kill one another and make it into a reality show. The masses love reality shows, and death, so why not give 'em both while also taking out the garbage?
_________________________
Resigned -- again.

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#436256 - 10/26/10 05:13 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: LightAngel]
Lara Offline



Registered: 05/06/07
Posts: 62
If you are looking for a complement to the videos you have been watching and what you have read, I'd like to suggest you take a look at Crime Library.

In my youth I was curious of the serial killer mind and found this page to contain the most informative and well-written reports/stories on the subject. Now a lot has happened on the internet since then, but it all still seems to be there:

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/complete_list.html

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#436592 - 10/30/10 03:51 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: TheDegenerate]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1688
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: TheDegenerate
I always find it interesting when the topic of the death penalty comes up around here. Not so much because it's a fascinating debate, but because it is interesting to see just how full of bullshit some people are.

The instant, pre-packaged reaction (predictable too, I might add) is when people say, "give me the gun, and let me pull the trigger!" I know I myself have said this in the past as well, in exaggeration, usually when it pertains to some scumbag (usually someone killing animals) who I think would be better off dead at that point in time.

But realistically, for most of those people, if someone actually did put a gun in their hand and said "do it!" I am sure you could sit their and watch 90 percent of them pussy out. Why? Not because they are "weak" or some other nonsense, but because they aren't fucking psychopaths. People like to talk tough when it comes to Satanic justice, but I doubt most would have the wontons to follow through with any of it; and I think that is probably a good thing! Nothing scares me more than a lynch mob, and be it through vigilantism, or through government mandate, I really DON'T think we should be putting people to death for no reason.

And man, where some people would draw the line! Don't just kill murderers, kill rapists and drug dealers too! And while you are at it, kill drug users! Give me a fucking break, seriously. Don't get me wrong, NO LOVE for these people at all; but blowing some guy away because he dropped acid or smoked dope? It sounds ideal in maintaining a safe society, for sure. But in practice, no thank you.

I think the criminal justice system is flawed, definitely. But much of the time I am personally satisfied with the punishments that are handed out. There are of course plenty of unfair situations; for one thing, I DO think rape should be treated a lot CLOSER to murder than it is. However, rape is NOT murder, and the victims survive. I think rape should not be handled with death, but with castration and possibly slavery. That's right, slavery! Put those motherfuckers to WORK, MAKE them useful!

Anyways, I am just doing the same thing now with my own idealism. But I'm sure you get the gist of it. I'd rather see someone serve out his life behind bars than be so lucky as to get a bullet in the brain instead.

Plus, if someone DID put a gun in my hand and say "shoot this murderer", I am humble enough to admit that I WOULD pussy out, and would hand it back to them. If that makes me a pussy, I'm totally fine with that, and anyone who would think less of me for it can go fuck themselves. I have no desire to take life, even if it is from some scumbag.


wink

I am what I am


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#436598 - 10/30/10 05:23 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: Delta]
Machismo Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/05/10
Posts: 1132
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: Delta
...put to better use as a slave or test subject.


I see and endorse the obvious benefits of using convicted murderers as scientific guinea pigs, with an anything-goes attitude toward what can be done to them, the only rule being, it has to be a legitimate scientific experiment to test a hypothesis of genuine scientific interest. But I think The Degenerate's essential point would hold true here as well, unfortunately. Most scientists probably lack the stomach to personally do something potentially lethal or even crippling to another human being, regardless what the human being had previously done, and regardless of government sanction. Too bad, really. If we could get past our squeamishness, scientific progress might accelerate.
_________________________


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#436602 - 10/30/10 05:42 AM Re: Are you..... for, or against the death penalty?! [Re: Riddles]
Genevieve Offline


Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 38
Loc: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Originally Posted By: Riddles
Originally Posted By: XUL
Originally Posted By: Original Sly
I also think rape is a greater crime than murder.


Call me a simpleton... but personally I'd rather be raped than murdered. And who knows? Maybe if my rapist was handsome and all that I'd even fall in love with him. *wink wink* Either way, I'd be alive to get raped another day - whereas if you're murdered, that's sort of it for you.


In terms of consequences, sure, murder has the potential to be worse than rape.

However, I've definitely felt sympathy for murderers before. I can't say I've felt sympathy for any rapists.


In some cases rape does trump murder. Although you have to look at the circumstances of the murder to. Ideally in some cases I would rather see a rapist put to death over a murder. Especially if they are a habitual rapist.
_________________________
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#436605 - 10/30/10 06:10 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: Machismo]
Shade Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/08/06
Posts: 6135
Loc: A Trailer Park
I'm not sure scientists would have such a hard time with it. They seem to share at least a few characteristics with sociopaths. If it doesn't mimic it exactly, that unemotional clinical detachment still looks an awful lot like a killer's knack for dehumanizing their victims.

But I agree with you. smile
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"What happens in the shadow, in the grey regions, also interests us – all that is elusive and fugitive, all that can be said in those beautiful half tones, or in whispers, in deep shade." ~ The Brothers Quay

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#436613 - 10/30/10 08:55 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: LightAngel]
DCLXVI Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 07/13/06
Posts: 1064
Loc: U.S.A.
The question here seems to deal with what makes a serial killer.

I have a close friend who reads everything she can get her hands on, about these people. While discussing them yesterday, the question came up: Why do people always remember these bastards names and , at least, portions of their "life stories," but no-one ever seems to remember anything about their victims? Most often, not even the names of very many of their victims.
Also, the question: Why do the majority of the most infamous of the serial killers only seem to kill prostitutes and young boys?

The second question: not all of them kill prostitutes or young boys. There was Berkowitz, Bundy, Dahmer, the Menendez Brothers, and others. But, then there's Gacy, Ridgway, Randall Woodfield, and many others. But there IS a large percentage who seem to prey on prostitutes and young boys.
Why?
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#436615 - 10/30/10 09:02 AM Re: Are you..... for, or against the death penalty?! [Re: Genevieve]
DCLXVI Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 07/13/06
Posts: 1064
Loc: U.S.A.
There are certain crimes that I feel should carry the death penalty. And with DNA being used (where it applies) in the convictions, I feel they should be carried out immediately. Among these: murder, rape, child molestation, & selling drugs to minors.

The first three, I feel the death penalty should be mandatory. No plea bargains. Fair trial, then upon conviction, the needle.
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"Churches may close and old shepherds may die, but the herd will always be the herd."
Reverend Bill


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#436653 - 10/30/10 06:09 PM Re: Serial Killers [Re: DCLXVI]
Shade Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/08/06
Posts: 6135
Loc: A Trailer Park
I think it's possible your first question is answered by your second. Some victims (prostitutes, homeless, etc) may be chosen because of how forgettable or invisible they are; the vagabonds, the hustlers, the outcasts, the untouchables, the trash that society already tries to ignore. No one remembers their names when they die because no one wanted to know their names when they were alive.

Taking from this pool keeps the serial killer under the radar. You start killing pretty white college girls and suddenly everybody wants your head on a stick.

Or (re: Question 1). If you remember the victims' names, learn about their lives, actually see them as people, you might empathize with them. And that hurts.

I stowed this essay (? not sure what to call it) from Psych Today a couple of days ago you might be interested in: How Psychopaths Choose Their Victims
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"What happens in the shadow, in the grey regions, also interests us – all that is elusive and fugitive, all that can be said in those beautiful half tones, or in whispers, in deep shade." ~ The Brothers Quay

We're Just Regular People

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#436662 - 10/30/10 09:43 PM Re: Serial Killers [Re: Shade]
Machismo Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/05/10
Posts: 1132
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: Shade


Hmm. An interesting application for humanoid robots once they sufficiently advance. Build a short, pretty, faux-female humanoid robot. Program it to move like a victim. Dress it in an eye-catching dress and send it walking down city streets and dark alleyways. Give it super-human strength, speed, fighting skill, and imperviousness to injury. Program it to identify and subdue an aggressor.
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#436737 - 10/31/10 01:56 PM Re: Are you..... for, or against the death penalty?! [Re: DCLXVI]
Genevieve Offline


Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 38
Loc: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Originally Posted By: DCLXVI
There are certain crimes that I feel should carry the death penalty. And with DNA being used (where it applies) in the convictions, I feel they should be carried out immediately. Among these: murder, rape, child molestation, & selling drugs to minors.

The first three, I feel the death penalty should be mandatory. No plea bargains. Fair trial, then upon conviction, the needle.


I like your way of thinking Mr. DCLXVI selling drugs to minors is a major crime the sellers are praying on the vulnerable. I believe in the court of law how ever they should have to prove that the defendant whole heartedly knew and didn't care the victim was a minor first though. Many of these defendants tend to be repeat offenders as well may I add.
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#456344 - 07/21/11 08:09 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: LightAngel]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1688
Loc: Denmark
This is an old topic I understand that, but I have now finish my reading about this, and I find it funny how my instinct was right from the start.

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#456345 - 07/21/11 08:29 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: LightAngel]
LordAaron Offline


Registered: 06/04/11
Posts: 7
Loc: North Wales UK
I have thought long and hard about replying to this being that I am in the process of reading the Satanic Bible which is helping me come to a better understanding of myself.
I thought why not answer. I won't pretend to understand the minds of people who have killed others be it for country, family or their own reasons. What ever your belief systems about life etc....... I can honestly state yes I have wanted revenge on those who have done me wrong but it it a fact that only certain members of Human Society are permitted to terminate the lives of other humans and even then with a examination of the actual act.

Sarcasm is a wonderful gift to have and I enjoy it immensely I have another gift of remembering what I read, I must say I wonder what Mr LaVey would think about some of the views posted in this topic, I know what I think. My so wanting to put down some of the wit and humour I have developed over the years is very strong but I will deny that side of me, acknowledging a true Satanist denies himself not. But I will ask this of some of you it is perfectly natural to want to seek revenge on those who do us wrong is it not? So when is a murderer not a murderer?


Edited by LordAaron (07/21/11 08:30 AM)
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#456351 - 07/21/11 02:55 PM Re: Serial Killers [Re: LordAaron]
Lamar Drummer Offline


Registered: 09/16/10
Posts: 133
Loc: Alabama
Originally Posted By: LordAaron

...it a fact that only certain members of Human Society are permitted to terminate the lives of other humans and even then with a examination of the actual act.


I tend to be in favor of capital punishment. Lex Talionis. But I think that it's bullshit and somewhat degrading that if a crime is commited then we have to be judged by a jury of our peers, human beings just like me who have the exact same potential to commit a crime just as the rest of us. On a human level the judge of the court is no better than I am nor is the judge "over" me. We all have the ability to carry out "evil."

I am not meaning to imply that a murderer who killed someone in cold blood does not deserve to be killed back. I favor justice. It's just that at the core of the matter it is merely a human being that decides if the other lives or dies. Just pointing that out.

Originally Posted By: LordAaron
But I will ask this of some of you it is perfectly natural to want to seek revenge on those who do us wrong is it not? So when is a murderer not a murderer?

I think that it is natural to want to seek revenge for an injustice. But again even the death sentence is murder.

I think that people should generally follow the dictum "don't fuck with me and I won't fuck with you." Of course there will be people that cross that line and when they do they should be met with retaliation suitable for the crime.

My thoughts.
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#456354 - 07/21/11 03:21 PM Re: Serial Killers [Re: Lamar Drummer]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8275
Murder.

Capital punishment is carried out through due process in accordance to the laws of the land.

Murder is not.

They both involve killing. But one is murder, one is not.
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#456359 - 07/21/11 07:21 PM Re: Are you..... for, or against the death penalty?! [Re: Genevieve]
DCLXVI Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 07/13/06
Posts: 1064
Loc: U.S.A.
Originally Posted By: Genevieve
I believe in the court of law how ever they should have to prove that the defendant whole heartedly knew and didn't care the victim was a minor first though.



My opinion on this is: most children tend to LOOK like children. If the drug dealers sell to them, (again, in my opinion) it is evident they don't care about the age of their victims. Upon conviction, give them a dose they won't forget.

In, basically, the same line, something was in the news some 30 years ago in Oklahoma that I found a bit disturbing.

It was around the time when the Oklahoma Department of Corrections was buying several public schools that had either been closed or new buildings were being built to replace the older structures.
They bought an old school in Tulsa to convert to use as a "Half Way House."
The neighborhood association complained, because they didn't want it in their area. Stating that they didn't want people convicted of violent crimes near their homes. (This is understandable.)
The D.O.C. told them, "...no-one convicted of violent crimes will be housed there..."
Of the first 200 inmates housed at the new facility, 150 of them had been convicted of attempted murder, attempted rape, etc.
Now, someone correct me if my thinging is wrong on this. But, if person A shoots someone and kills them, and person B hits someone in the head with a baseball bat and DOESN'T kill them, shouldn't both crimes pretty well be classified as violent crimes???

So, in answer to the question posed by the title of the thread: Yes, I wholeheartedly support the death penalty.
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"Churches may close and old shepherds may die, but the herd will always be the herd."
Reverend Bill


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#456377 - 07/21/11 10:46 PM Re: Serial Killers [Re: LightAngel]
AdamBomb Offline


Registered: 05/25/11
Posts: 75
The ice man was interesting with how he had in him a genetic trait that could have easily made him into a heroic character. He had this risk-taking adrenaline craving mentality which could have made him into a fireman or a police officer, but unfortunately turned him into the opposite. Heroes and villains are in no doubt opposites, but have the same traits when it comes to taking risks and being attracted to an adrenaline rush.
It's very interesting material - things like the similarities between good and evil, genius and insanity.

The way I look at it and probably people in general, we are all products of our environment. Evil lives is in us all just like cancer. Something in your life triggers it. You may smoke all your life and never get cancer - not highly possible and also not smoke a cigarette your whole life and still get it. So you can have a serial killer with a great child hood and still have a possibility of snapping.

A comedian mentioned this, and I think it was Larry David, in his stand up about religion and how you get people that are good all their lives, follow the rules, read a Holy Bible everyday, and then go out on top of building and start sniping people randomly. I think he would be referring to that Texas shooter back in the 60s.

So a bad childhood, statistically, increases the chances of a child to become a serial killer, but doesn't guarantee as does with a good childhood.

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#456394 - 07/22/11 02:56 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: AdamBomb]
Kernel Offline


Registered: 04/20/11
Posts: 76
Loc: Nothern Europe
We wouldn't have any heroes without villains.

In my opinion childhood trauma is the effect maker. Not necessarily bad childhood in general, but the trauma it can cause. But there have been many serial killers and others that have had good life in general. Something may just have cracked one day - who knows?

About good and evil.. As in as the way the act itself is good or evil or the consequences are good or evil? Which is more important? I personally don't know. Thoughts?

It was said in one of my favorite entertainments that: "Those with the greatest capacity for good have also the greatest capacity for evil." I think this works in both ways.
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#456486 - 07/23/11 02:09 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: Phineas]
LordAaron Offline


Registered: 06/04/11
Posts: 7
Loc: North Wales UK
Its obvious to me that there have been miscarriages of justice people executed but then found to be not guilty (when relatives take up the case) its happened in Britain.
How do you people feel in regards to the guilty being executed when you take in to consideration miscarriages of justice from a I have to state here that I object to most western societies belief systems you know the kind "we are right your wrong now the shut the f*** up or we will bomb you" Western societies are so hypocritical in there belief systems for instance "thou shalt not kill" yet we have Military priests who bless those going into battle, this week we had a Rector burn passages of the bible because he did not like them.

These types of people help make and define the society I live in & please no one start talking about Democracy as there is no such thing for how can there be? example we five have decided you four will obey these rules no matter how you feel about them. (Democracy is equal participation.) To enforce them we have a group of people that will enforce them with other rules should you disobey..........

As you can probably tell I feel disillusioned with human society but I do feel the that the words of Anton Lavey have opened up the ability to understand myself my life and how to deal with other people's crap. Be that right or wrong in your minds it works for me.
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#456490 - 07/23/11 03:10 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: Lamar Drummer]
John Prophet Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 996
Loc: My suburban lair
Originally Posted By: Lamar Drummer
But I think that it's bullshit and somewhat degrading that if a crime is commited then we have to be judged by a jury of our peers, human beings just like me who have the exact same potential to commit a crime just as the rest of us. On a human level the judge of the court is no better than I am nor is the judge "over" me. We all have the ability to carry out "evil."

I am not meaning to imply that a murderer who killed someone in cold blood does not deserve to be killed back. I favor justice. It's just that at the core of the matter it is merely a human being that decides if the other lives or dies.

"Do you know the only value life has is what life puts upon itself?"
-Jack London,The Sea Wolf
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#456496 - 07/23/11 07:25 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: LordAaron]
Poetaster Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 2336
Loc: East Coast, USA.
There's a lot to tackle here, so I'll just go point by point.

Quote:
Its obvious to me that there have been miscarriages of justice people executed but then found to be not guilty (when relatives take up the case) its happened in Britain.


Statistically, the number of DNA cases exonerating death row inmates, or just regular prisoners, is a very small percentage in comparison to all of the correctly prosecuted and justifiably imprisoned criminals. Any system of justice is is not infallible, it's impossible to have a perfect system, but it's a system that for the most part, works. Sure, it's sad when you hear about wrongly accused individuals being set free years later because of new DNA evidence--unfortunately, that's the risk involved, and one that society must accept, if society has any intentions of punishing criminals.

"There have been 272 post-conviction DNA exonerations in United States history" Source.

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/index.cfm?ty=tp&tid=11

The above link will show that just by years end 2009, 272 people is hardly a drop in the ocean compared to the amount of people incarcerated--in America alone. I'm certain that the number worldwide, would almost certainly be astronomical. I would say that overturning a system that works, because of a few kinks, would just be premature.

Which is to say nothing about recidivism rates.

Quote:
How do you people feel in regards to the guilty being executed when you take in to consideration miscarriages of justice


If they are guilty, then I have no remorse. I don't have the luxury, the time or the necessary means to determine which execution is or is not a "miscarriage of justice", so I will err on the side of the experts who do have those resources available to them.

Quote:
I have to state here that I object to most western societies belief systems you know the kind "we are right your wrong now the shut the f*** up or we will bomb you"


I have yet to hear of any Western governments adopting that foreign policy--bit crass and highly alienating, don't you think? I've heard of a few Middle Eastern countries that flirt with that policy, though, which is why they are mostly ostracized and ridiculed in the world theater.

Could you provide some examples, so we have a more precise temporal location to start a conversation?

Quote:
Western societies are so hypocritical in there belief systems for instance "thou shalt not kill" yet we have Military priests who bless those going into battle


I'm not a "religious" man in the sense of accepting an outside deity, the belief in prayer, the holy trinity or any of that jazz. But won't I won't do, is begrudge soldiers fighting for my freedoms, their comfort and belief in the efficacy of prayers and blessings if that's what gets them through the hail of bullets, dead bodies etc., with their sanity intact. What right do I have to undermine what can sometimes be the only concrete that keeps those men and women together?

As for hypocrisy, I would say that it isn't hypocritical at all, since a vast number of Christian sects (I do assume that you're referring to Christianity for brevity, correct me if I'm wrong) throughout history have waged one war or another in the name of their creator. Christianity is not a peaceful religion, any more than Islam is, but it has, for the most part, been relatively castrated in regards to present day Holy Crusading--now, it's more dangerous in the political arena than the battlefield.

Quote:
this week we had a Rector burn passages of the bible because he did not like them.


One man, hardly a damning case...against anything.

Quote:
please no one start talking about Democracy as there is no such thing


I mean...really.

Quote:
example we five have decided you four will obey these rules no matter how you feel about them.


A gross oversimplification of how laws are ratified; democracy. However, a civilization needs rules and those that enforce them, unless you're an Anarchist, which itself is a bunch of bullshit.

Quote:
To enforce them we have a group of people that will enforce them with other rules should you disobey..........


Find an island and become a hermit.




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#456502 - 07/23/11 09:40 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: LordAaron]
verszou Offline



Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 1814
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: LordAaron

These types of people help make and define the society I live in & please no one start talking about Democracy as there is no such thing for how can there be?


At least you were "kind" enough to prefix your statement with "please" - but really that's just sugar-coating the fact that you want to determine the basis on which to have an argument by saying what is allowed and not allowed in the debate. It's always a sign of intellectual laziness.

Further "how can there be" is really argument from personal incredulity i.e. "If I can't think of this, then it does not exist".

So basically, if you're too lazy to refute something, you ask beforehand to have it withdrawn from the debate?
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#456551 - 07/24/11 02:40 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: Poetaster]
LordAaron Offline


Registered: 06/04/11
Posts: 7
Loc: North Wales UK
Originally Posted By: Poetaster
There's a lot to tackle here, so I'll just go point by point.



Statistically, the number of DNA cases exonerating death row inmates, or just regular prisoners, is a very small percentage in comparison to all of the correctly prosecuted and justifiably imprisoned criminals. Any system of justice is is not infallible, it's impossible to have a perfect system, but it's a system that for the most part, works. Sure, it's sad when you hear about wrongly accused individuals being set free years later because of new DNA evidence--unfortunately, that's the risk involved, and one that society must accept, if society has any intentions of punishing criminals.

"There have been 272 post-conviction DNA exonerations in United States history" Source.

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/index.cfm?ty=tp&tid=11

The above link will show that just by years end 2009, 272 people is hardly a drop in the ocean compared to the amount of people incarcerated--in America alone. I'm certain that the number worldwide, would almost certainly be astronomical. I would say that overturning a system that works, because of a few kinks, would just be premature.

Which is to say nothing about recidivism rates.

Its interesting that your comfortable defending those odds with stat's, can I just ask though how would you feel if it was you that was wrongly convicted? Would you be happy that you were a small minority of errors. Or slightly upset that you were labelled and spent time incarcerated for a crime you had not committed.

Quote:
How do you people feel in regards to the guilty being executed when you take in to consideration miscarriages of justice


If they are guilty, then I have no remorse. I don't have the luxury, the time or the necessary means to determine which execution is or is not a "miscarriage of justice", so I will err on the side of the experts who do have those resources available to them.


There we have the hiding behind others who make the decisions to punish or as I like to put it "not my problem"

Quote:
I have to state here that I object to most western societies belief systems you know the kind "we are right your wrong now the shut the f*** up or we will bomb you"


I have yet to hear of any Western governments adopting that foreign policy--bit crass and highly alienating, don't you think? I've heard of a few Middle Eastern countries that flirt with that policy, though, which is why they are mostly ostracized and ridiculed in the world theater.

Could you provide some examples, so we have a more precise temporal location to start a conversation?

I can provide a few Korea,Vietnam, Cuba (sanctions granted)
Interference in other nations policies (Iran,Iraq,Libya, yet happy to leave African countries alone Rwanda, Somalia the list goes on.... Wait it could it be because Libya, Iran have a substance that is needed oh what's it called now it comes out of the ground and is black hmmmmmm I will get back to you on that one.
Quote:
Western societies are so hypocritical in there belief systems for instance "thou shalt not kill" yet we have Military priests who bless those going into battle


I'm not a "religious" man in the sense of accepting an outside deity, the belief in prayer, the holy trinity or any of that jazz. But won't I won't do, is begrudge soldiers fighting for my freedoms, their comfort and belief in the efficacy of prayers and blessings if that's what gets them through the hail of bullets, dead bodies etc., with their sanity intact. What right do I have to undermine what can sometimes be the only concrete that keeps those men and women together?

Do you actually believe the reasons US,UK,France and other allied countries are sending troops weapons, bombs to Libya, Afghanistan that its to help rid them of insurgents? Have you actually stopped to think why there are people who do not like and lets make this as simple as is possible ARE WILLING TO DIE to fight your nations (& others) troops its not just because there Islamic extremists, don't be so naive.

As for hypocrisy, I would say that it isn't hypocritical at all, since a vast number of Christian sects (I do assume that you're referring to Christianity for brevity, correct me if I'm wrong) throughout history have waged one war or another in the name of their creator. Christianity is not a peaceful religion, any more than Islam is, but it has, for the most part, been relatively castrated in regards to present day Holy Crusading--now, it's more dangerous in the political arena than the battlefield.

So your happy that a few stray bombs blow up this hospital or a convoy of civilians are destroyed just so that your country whose policies are not actually known for making perfect sense and are probably some of the most immoral in the history of nations can sleep well at night? Not to mention the oil companies that now help extract Iraq's oil for them.? What am I saying of course your happy!

Quote:
this week we had a Rector burn passages of the bible because he did not like them.


One man, hardly a damning case...against anything.
Have you actually read the Bible? Did you attend Sunday School classes? I have and did, we were asked not to attend because my brothers and I could not get our brains around, The book of genesis, Adam & Eve if your not aware are supposed to have started the human race all those years ago......errr right OK. Why is it acceptable to impregnate a woman with the holy spirit but its a sin to commit adultery, why is it OK to sin through out the week and get forgiven on Sunday. Surely you could enlighten me on those points.

Quote:
please no one start talking about Democracy as there is no such thing


I mean...really.

Quote:
example we five have decided you four will obey these rules no matter how you feel about them.


A gross oversimplification of how laws are ratified; democracy. However, a civilization needs rules and those that enforce them, unless you're an Anarchist, which itself is a bunch of bullshit.
I don't believe there is anything wrong in questioning those that have the power to rule over many others just because they pertain to have biggest gun. I wonder how many nations would cry out and I am sure you not fully aware of how much hate there is in the world for Western Countries and I am not surprised why to be honest.

Quote:
To enforce them we have a group of people that will enforce them with other rules should you disobey..........


Find an island and become a hermit. I would except America would probably find oil on it and declare it and me as a haven for terrorists...........
You have used intellect to help embarrass me but and I really don't care if you accept my answers



[/quote]

Anton Lavey explained that it was right to question everything if we felt it did not feel right.
I do.
However if your perfectly comfortable with the actions of your nations Troops (including when some troops have committed murder, torture, rape) Your nations policies even when their reasons were not accurate, Iraq, (weapons of mass destruction) "Watch out he has a pea shooter"
Or not assisting rebels in one country but doing so in another (why?) then good for you but me, I sleep well at night knowing I don't believe the crap the government of the country that I was born in preaches.
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#456552 - 07/24/11 02:56 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: verszou]
LordAaron Offline


Registered: 06/04/11
Posts: 7
Loc: North Wales UK
Originally Posted By: verszou
Originally Posted By: LordAaron

These types of people help make and define the society I live in & please no one start talking about Democracy as there is no such thing for how can there be?


At least you were "kind" enough to prefix your statement with "please" - but really that's just sugar-coating the fact that you want to determine the basis on which to have an argument by saying what is allowed and not allowed in the debate. It's always a sign of intellectual laziness.

Further "how can there be" is really argument from personal incredulity i.e. "If I can't think of this, then it does not exist".

So basically, if you're too lazy to refute something, you ask beforehand to have it withdrawn from the debate?


I am kind, modest too, but are you saying there is such a thing as Democracy? True Democracy where every one has a vote on all decisions that effect the nation of that person? We the people were not asked by the UK government as to whether UK troops should join US troops in entering Iraq, Afghanistan assisting the rebels in Libya, etc......etc..... Do not even think of using verbal verbatim here to prove how narrow minded some Satanists are like its been mentioned here on this very site before just because you call yourselves Satanists does not make you one not if your prepared to bend over lube up and take whatever drivel a government gives its people.

I truly believe the Church of Satan is in us but only if we are true to ourselves if you members here are satisfied with what your governments are doing then OK but don't expect everyone else to think like you do.
_________________________
That which does not kill us makes us stronger........

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#456586 - 07/24/11 02:32 PM Re: Serial Killers [Re: LordAaron]
Poetaster Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 2336
Loc: East Coast, USA.
Holy fucking shit, I think you have officially won the award for the greatest missing of points, misconstruing of words, presumptuous projections about my integrity, anti-American bashing and downright contextual butchery that I have ever had the honor of being the butt of.

Kudos for that, I don't think it could have been done any better.

For the sake of the moderators, I'll just leave it as is.

laugh
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#456704 - 07/26/11 05:29 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: AdamBomb]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1688
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: AdamBomb
The ice man was interesting with how he had in him a genetic trait that could have easily made him into a heroic character. He had this risk-taking adrenaline craving mentality which could have made him into a fireman or a police officer, but unfortunately turned him into the opposite. Heroes and villains are in no doubt opposites, but have the same traits when it comes to taking risks and being attracted to an adrenaline rush.
It's very interesting material - things like the similarities between good and evil, genius and insanity.

The way I look at it and probably people in general, we are all products of our environment. Evil lives is in us all just like cancer. Something in your life triggers it. You may smoke all your life and never get cancer - not highly possible and also not smoke a cigarette your whole life and still get it. So you can have a serial killer with a great child hood and still have a possibility of snapping.

A comedian mentioned this, and I think it was Larry David, in his stand up about religion and how you get people that are good all their lives, follow the rules, read a Holy Bible everyday, and then go out on top of building and start sniping people randomly. I think he would be referring to that Texas shooter back in the 60s.

So a bad childhood, statistically, increases the chances of a child to become a serial killer, but doesn't guarantee as does with a good childhood.


I agree with your thoughts here, because I think that even the strongest of us can fall.

Maybe love is the key?!(The love we feel for ourselves, and the ones we choose to be close to in our life)- if the love is strong enough then maybe that will give us the strength to manage all kinds of problems and stress.

Yes, this may sound naive to some, but not everything has to be complicated, sometimes the answer is very simple.

This simplicity will be very complicated for some creatures, and easy for others.

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#456845 - 07/28/11 01:49 AM Re: Serial Killers [Re: LightAngel]
Pablovilla Offline



Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 267
Loc: Victorville, California
I remember years back there was a killer with a .22 firearm that killed a number of people in the CSU Fullerton library some years back, and like Manson he is still alive today and occasionally comes up for parole but is denied every time.

The serial killers I find interesting is those that dress up such as the guy that dressed up as Santa Claus and killed a number of people on Christmas eve, and just lately the guy that killed all those people in Norway dressed as a police officer. There are fictional ones as well such as the guy in ConAir, he was the most interesting person in the movie.

There is one thing that I really enjoy seeing in people and that is creativity, and creativity can have either positive benefits to the world, or negative. However both are interesting. Not everyone can be a Thomas Edison, some are like Robert Othmer and build bombs, and others like to get their hands messy.
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Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result - Ben Franklin

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#456909 - 07/29/11 10:19 AM Serial Killers on I-80 Nevada [Re: LightAngel]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649


Edited by Unknown (07/29/11 10:19 AM)
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