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#429095 - 08/13/10 02:08 PM Questions regarding Satanism
Lordrandom Offline


Registered: 08/13/10
Posts: 8
Loc: England
I read the Satanic Bible and I enjoyed the first half of it. I've been thinking of reading the book by the current head of the Church of Satan for a while now and have played with the idea of openly calling myself a Satanist but there are a couple of points which have always stopped me.

1 - Do I need to be vengeful? I know a lot of the philosophy advocates vengence and such on those who deserve it but for the most part I just don't have it in me to do that, sure I get pissed every once in a while but I can't sustain the killer instinct that some of the things advocated by LeVay would require. Should I just give up now?

2 - My fiance is a Christian. While I do not share her faith (obviously or I wouldn't be here) I want to at least give her the respect that comes with a loving relationship. If I were to consider myself a Satanist would I be insulting her? I don't want to commit to a message that says someone I love is an idiot for believing what she believes

those two are the important ones, the next one isn't as important

3 - Do I need to do the magic stuff? Magic has never appealed to me, it is why for the most part I didn't really enjoy the books of Belial and Leviathan (I found the enochian keys kind of boring), I think I am just too literal a person to invest myself in them. Are they are a requirement to consider oneself a Satanist with justification?

I hope I don't come across as judging to those who have sucessfully embraced what I struggle with, and this is my first post so I hope I haven't done anything wrong

Thank you in advance for all help
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#429097 - 08/13/10 02:32 PM Re: Questions regarding Satanism [Re: Lordrandom]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
You'll get some answers from genuine Church of Satan "clergy". I'm not a member of the Priesthood (you'll know them by their titles as "Priest/Priestess" or "Magister/Magistra"), but I can give you some thoughts based on my experiences as a member of the CoS. Take it for what it's worth to you.

Quote:
Do I need to be vengeful?

You should be able to stand up for yourself, morally if not physically. But the point of Satanism is to accept yourself as you are. If you are a vindictive person, that's something you should know about yourself and make work for you. But if you aren't, that is also something you should know about yourself, and something that you can make work for you, too, in other ways.

Quote:
If I were to consider myself a Satanist would I be insulting her?

You should probably ask her whether she would construe it as an insult. A lot of people here have a lot of baggage from their days dealing with judgmental family members and acquaintances, but there's no Satanic dogma that says Christians or people of other religions are stupid or crazy. Some of us have friends who are Christian or who believe in other accounts of God. We do believe they are wrong, and there could be lots of reasons why they're wrong. But it's up to you to decide whether you can get along with such people, and on what terms.

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Do I need to do the magic stuff?

The main purpose of rituals is, as our High Priest Peter Gilmore has put it, "self-transformational psychodrama". It involves a lot of the same techniques as self-hypnosis, but it's converted into a religious expression. It's a way of cultivating some fantasy in your life, and creating an environment in which you can venerate yourself as a godlike being. Your emotions can be externalized and intensified to the maximum degree, if only for the duration of the ritual. It's a way of getting rid of your hang-ups and inhibitions. That's something Satanism encourages you to try out, at least once. You might be surprised at some of the effects it can have, at least on you. In fact, if you feel like your inhibitions are preventing you from really getting into ritual, that might speak all the more to the potential benefit ritual might have for you.

But to answer your question, it's not mandatory. It's there as a tool for you to try out.


Edited by reprobate (08/13/10 02:33 PM)
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#429098 - 08/13/10 02:44 PM Re: Questions regarding Satanism [Re: Lordrandom]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Originally Posted By: Lordrandom
1 - Do I need to be vengeful?


You need to be and do whatever allows you to feel like you are living in accordance with your values, your goals, and your true nature, as well as with the laws of the land.

If Satanism dictated that you absolutely had to be vengeful or hateful, it would be just as misguided and wrong in its approach as the religions that absolutely forbid vengeance and hatred, because human beings are complex and variable, and the situations they encounter in life are likewise.

Quote:
If I were to consider myself a Satanist would I be insulting her? I don't want to commit to a message that says someone I love is an idiot for believing what she believes


Well, what does she think? Does she, or would she, see Satanism as a personal insult?

And, what do you think? How do you see Satanism in relation to other religions, and do you distinguish between religions and their adherents, or not?

Me, I tend to see my Christian, Pagan, Buddhist, and even my atheist friends as incorrect, myopic, or misguided in some ways, and merely different from me in others. Most importantly, I see us as rather different types of animals, to the point where trying to turn them into Satanists would be like trying to turn rabbits into coyotes.

From there, we all have to make certain concessions or allowances in our relationships, because no relationship is perfect, and the overlap in values and interests will almost never be total and complete.

But, it may be worth mentioning that while I am glad to befriend, work with, or even, schtupp "white-lighters," I do have some reservations about actually dating or marrying one. I think if someone's going to play such an important role and hold such a prominent place in my life, there would definitely need to be a much stronger and larger overlap of worldviews and values. The other person would likely have to be a very unusual and unorthodox kind of Christian, Pagan, Buddhist, or what have you, for the relationship to actually work long-term.
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#429102 - 08/13/10 03:24 PM Re: Questions regarding Satanism [Re: Lordrandom]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10143
1 - "Need" is a strong word. We do generally advocate aggressive personality types, but how you deal with this is up to you. It's your loss if it works out poorly so of little concern to us.

2 - Make no mistake, Satanism is an anti-Christian religion. Our worldview is very much the opposite of white light religion. Frankly I have a hard time imagining how a Satanist and a Christian who both sincerely believe in their religions could work out; supposedly there are some who have tried it, though I never heard back from them on long term results. In fact it might be telling that everyone I knew who attempted this dropped out of sight some time after.

3 - It is not necessary to practice magic to be a practicing Satanist. What you do in this regard is your own business.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#429140 - 08/13/10 10:22 PM Re: Questions regarding Satanism [Re: Lordrandom]
Midnight Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/27/09
Posts: 111
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Welcome Lordrandom.

2 - My fiance is a Christian. While I do not share her faith (obviously or I wouldn't be here) I want to at least give her the respect that comes with a loving relationship. If I were to consider myself a Satanist would I be insulting her? I don't want to commit to a message that says someone I love is an idiot for believing what she believes

My personal thoughts regarding having a Christian partner is that when you love someone you are actually loving many aspects of that persons personality which includes their beliefs and philosophy of life. Being in a relationship with someone also means providing support and acceptance of your partners ideals. If your partners ideals and philosophies differ greatly from your own I don't understand how you can do this without contradicting your own philosophies and ideals.

While my background was christian l always had problems with it. After reading TSB l knew l was a Satanist. My husband of 20 years has lived his entire life as an athiest although l don't call him an athiest, he just has no time nor interest in 'believing' in anything, he is too busy living! My point is that my being a Satanist does not conflict with his ideals and life and he is totally supportive and accepts me being a Satanist.
I am not saying that a Satanist cannot have a relationship with a christian, l just can't see how you can live and grow together in a supportive environment.

It is not like supporting different football teams, my husband supports the Aussie rule footy team Carlton who are never as superior in talent and ability as the Western Bulldogs who l support. However we have made that mixed marraige work!!!! grin

Good luck with the answers to your questions.

Hail Satan!
Midnight
_________________________
A man who dares to waste one hour of time has not discovered the value of life. - Charles Darwin

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#429273 - 08/15/10 06:33 PM Re: Questions regarding Satanism [Re: Lordrandom]
Darkcentre1 Offline


Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 38
I cannot think of any higher law than the Law of Self Preservation, and I cannot think of any higher cause than My Own Cause.

Everything I do is calculated to further my own cause and my own self preservation.

Do I need to be vengeful? Maybe, it depends on the situation. I am not limited to acting violently.

Do I follow the laws of my community? Absolutely, because winding up in prison, or having my precious future jeopardized by a criminal record is simply unacceptable to me.

You need to determine it for yourself, but you determine it within the context of pragmatism I think. How will this action I take affect me? If I do this, what could eventuate for me? If I take this step, where will I end up?

It is responsible indulgence, not reckless compulsion.

I cannot disengage Satanism from Greater and Lesser Magic. Dr. LaVey focused on magical practice as an important component of Satanism and I personally agree with him. Magic adds so much to what I think, feel and do.

In regards to magic: let each decide, according to his or her needs.

There’s nothing wrong with judging, it is one of the core tenets of Satanism, at least for me. I wish people generally were more judgemental.

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#429277 - 08/15/10 07:19 PM Re: Questions regarding Satanism [Re: Darkcentre1]
M.D. Roche Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 513
Loc: Albany, New York
Originally Posted By: Darkcentre1
I cannot disengage Satanism from Greater and Lesser Magic. Dr. LaVey focused on magical practice as an important component of Satanism and I personally agree with him. Magic adds so much to what I think, feel and do.


Exactly.

Also, one should consider the following quotes from the preface to The Satanic Bible:

Quote:
This book was written because, with very few exceptions, every tract and paper, every "secret" grimoire, all the "great works" on the subject of magic, are nothing more than sanctimonious fraud...

Quote:
Herein you will find truth—and fantasy. Each is necessary for the other to exist...


If you take all the magic and fantasy out of Satanism is it really Satanism?
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#429293 - 08/15/10 10:35 PM Re: Questions regarding Satanism [Re: M.D. Roche]
Hedonist Offline


Registered: 01/21/09
Posts: 108
Loc: Australia
As was mentioned earlier, it is not necessary to be vengeful or to 'pretend' to be anything you are not to identify yourself as a Satanist.

Survival instinct and righteous indignation - yes, but counterproductive revenge that might land you in jail - hardly..

I've often found subtle manipulation and lesser magic to be of great use when dealing with idiots who threaten my own interests - or simply avoiding becoming entangled with those who waste my time and energy in the first place works even better..!!

Being a Satanist is not about going around trying to make enemies to enact vengeange on..

As to your second point - yeah, good luck with that..! If you do discover that you ARE a Satanist after all, you'll probably want to keep it to yourself around her and avoid any kind of religious debate with her.. Some Satanists (like those of the heirarchy) wear their affiliation on their sleeve as a matter of course, but others prefer to keep the metaphorical black flame that fuels them a secret..

To each his own... (and hey, even if you find out you are NOT a Satanist, at least you can take a few pointers from it that do come naturally and use them to clarify and enrich your, for want of a better phrase, 'life experience').

- Hedonist
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"Here and now is our day of joy! Here and now is our opportunity! Choose ye this day, this hour, for no redeemer liveth!"

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#429301 - 08/16/10 12:10 AM Re: Questions regarding Satanism [Re: Lordrandom]
LordofDarkness Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 760
Loc: Tennessee, U.S.
Quote:
1 - Do I need to be vengeful? I know a lot of the philosophy advocates vengence and such on those who deserve it but for the most part I just don't have it in me to do that, sure I get pissed every once in a while but I can't sustain the killer instinct that some of the things advocated by LeVay would require. Should I just give up now?


It depends on what you mean by the term "vengeful". In order to be vengeful, one must determine how to be vengeful. Violent and criminal acts are obviously not the answer. So how can you be vengeful without sacrificing a portion of yourself in some way?

Ask yourself that when faced with such situations that call for vengeance.

Quote:
2 - My fiance is a Christian. While I do not share her faith (obviously or I wouldn't be here) I want to at least give her the respect that comes with a loving relationship. If I were to consider myself a Satanist would I be insulting her? I don't want to commit to a message that says someone I love is an idiot for believing what she believes


There isn't any message proclaiming that any person(s) are intellectualy challenged because of their religion. In my opinion we are anti-spiritual and as far as I'm concerned, some of us may even be misanthropic.

I as a Satanist only judge by the actions, character, and quality of the person(s) in question. Not their religious beliefs. Whatever anyone believes hasn't any validity when compared to their ability or disability to advance in society and achieve upmost self-satisfaction.

That's just my opinion.
_________________________

"Any group or collective, large or small, is only a number of individuals. A group can have no rights other than the rights of its individual members." - Ayn Rand

"Laws are there for a reason. You may not agree with them but you gotta obey them. Nobody wants to be in court." - Sonic the Hedgehog

"Satanism is not a white light religion; it is a religion of the flesh, the mundane, the carnal - all of which are ruled by Satan, the personification of the Left Hand Path." - Magus LaVey

"Test Everything, Believe Nothing." -

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#429334 - 08/16/10 12:14 PM Re: Questions regarding Satanism [Re: LordofDarkness]
Lust Offline


Registered: 11/02/05
Posts: 4214
Originally Posted By: LordOfDarkness
I as a Satanist only judge by the actions, character, and quality of the person(s) in question. Not their religious beliefs. Whatever anyone believes hasn't any validity when compared to their ability or disability to advance in society and achieve upmost self-satisfaction.

That's just my opinion.


I always take a persons religion into account (If I am aware of said religion) and I feel it certainly should be used to judge someone. Religion plays a role in who that person is and what influences them. When judging (or forming an opinion of) someone all aspects should be taken into account.
_________________________
�Love is one of the most intense feelings felt by man; another is hate. Forcing yourself to feel indiscriminate love is very unnatural. If you try to love everyone you only lessen your feelings for those who deserve your love. Repressed hatred can lead to many physical and emotional aliments. By learning to release your hatred towards those who deserve it, you cleanse yourself of these malignant emotions and need not take your pent-up hatred out on your loved ones.�
Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible

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#429338 - 08/16/10 12:40 PM Re: Questions regarding Satanism [Re: Lordrandom]
verszou Offline



Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 1814
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: Lordrandom


1 - Do I need to be vengeful? I know a lot of the philosophy advocates vengence and such on those who deserve it but for the most part I just don't have it in me to do that, sure I get pissed every once in a while but I can't sustain the killer instinct that some of the things advocated by LeVay would require. Should I just give up now?


Perhaps if the extent of your emotions only go into "get pissed every once in a while" then you might just be leading a very quiet and uneventful life, or have good luck.

Vengeance should be weighed against the Satanic sin of counterproductive pride. If a waiter shortchanges you or acts rudely you probably don't need to put a curse on the person or make it your life mission to make him/her miserable. Take your business elsewhere and be done with it. The punishment should fit the crime - and you probably have things to do and places to go that are more important smile

One the other hand there are cases where other measures are required, a person intentionally causing you harm for instance could be a candidate for revenge. If, when and how is something that is left up to your own judgment.
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While having never invented a sin, I'm trying to perfect several.

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#429339 - 08/16/10 12:41 PM Re: Questions regarding Satanism [Re: Lust]
Azeri Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 226
Loc: Hell
Well said.
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#429346 - 08/16/10 01:58 PM Re: Questions regarding Satanism [Re: Lordrandom]
DanielM Offline



Registered: 07/20/10
Posts: 24
Loc: Kintuhkee, Yew-Ess-Ay
Originally Posted By: Lordrandom
2 - My fiance is a Christian. While I do not share her faith (obviously or I wouldn't be here) I want to at least give her the respect that comes with a loving relationship. If I were to consider myself a Satanist would I be insulting her? I don't want to commit to a message that says someone I love is an idiot for believing what she believes [emphasis mine]


I don't think anyone here can predict how she'll react; none of us know her and you do. But I'll make one observation; belaboring the obvious somewhat but worth saying. Be sure she's fully informed on exactly what you mean when you call yourself a "Satanist" or "sympathetic to Satanism but not a full-blown Satanist" or whatever you decide you are -- in other words, that she's reacting to you and not to a lot of misinformation some Christians have promulgated about what Satanism is.
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#429348 - 08/16/10 02:32 PM Re: Questions regarding Satanism [Re: Lust]
LordofDarkness Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 760
Loc: Tennessee, U.S.
Of course when religion influences their thoughts and actions - I agree. But what I was getting at was their basic beliefs.

If a Buddhist can advance in his society, well then that's great. If he can't, then obviously something's wrong.

Regardless of the religion, people still have the ability to achieve self-satisfaction. My grandmother is one of those people. She's a devout christian and lives her life happily with no regrets, no conflict between mind and body, and also possesses a sense of peace. She grew up into christianity and it fits her nature well.

Our nature as Satanists are just different than that of other people. That's why I only judge by said aspects of a person. Aside of that, I agree Tier.


Edited by LordOfDarkness (08/17/10 09:04 AM)
_________________________

"Any group or collective, large or small, is only a number of individuals. A group can have no rights other than the rights of its individual members." - Ayn Rand

"Laws are there for a reason. You may not agree with them but you gotta obey them. Nobody wants to be in court." - Sonic the Hedgehog

"Satanism is not a white light religion; it is a religion of the flesh, the mundane, the carnal - all of which are ruled by Satan, the personification of the Left Hand Path." - Magus LaVey

"Test Everything, Believe Nothing." -

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#429390 - 08/17/10 10:24 AM Re: Questions regarding Satanism [Re: Lordrandom]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11565
Loc: New England, USA
Originally Posted By: Lordrandom
1 - Do I need to be vengeful?

There's no point in forcing an emotion that isn't there. It's just that if you do feel wrath against your enemies, you shouldn't have any shame in that or try to rationalize it away. How you choose to let the vengeance manifest itself is another story.

Quote:
2 - My fiance is a Christian. [...] I don't want to commit to a message that says someone I love is an idiot for believing what she believes

I have seen some mixed-faith marriages work. However, I always say that if one person sincerely believes that the other is in some kind of danger (metaphysical or otherwise) due to their choice of religion, then it ain't gonna work.

Since he identifies as a Christian, that means he must have some reason for doing so, and so I suspect you DO feel he's stupid, weak, and/or delusional on some level. Though without knowing him, I have no idea of why he takes up the label. Some people are Christians just because it was the religion they were brought up in, haven't looked into anything else, and drag the label with them out of guilty feelings of obligation. Some are myopic Jesus freaks. Some fall somewhere in between.

Quote:
3 - Do I need to do the magic stuff?

No, you don't "need" to. As others have said, it's a tool you have at your disposal. However, I have found that people who are quick to dismiss that 2/3 of The Satanic Bible (along with all of The Satanic Rituals) often do so for short-sighted reasons. Some people simply lack the discipline or organizational skills to set up a ritual and enter the temporary "intellectual decompression" state.

Quote:
(I found the enochian keys kind of boring)

Um, that's rather like finding a cookbook to be "boring". I don't think you understood what it was about.

Quote:
I think I am just too literal a person to invest myself in them.

You're not one of those annoying people who talks through an entire movie, criticizing each scene, are you?
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