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#431870 - 09/13/10 01:54 AM Koran Book Burning
Morning Star Offline



Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 14
Loc: Tasmania, Australia
Hello Everyone.

I am just curious as to what you all thought about the recent attempt by Terry Jones in the U.S. to organise a burn the Koran day?

In Australia at the moment there is alot of controversy over a man who went live online, rolled up a koran and a bible page and proceeded to smoke a joint with it, suggesting "it's a book, who gives a shit".

So, What are YOUR thoughts on the events of this last week? Do you think it is utter stupidity? or were you hoping to line up on burn day?

Please share your thoughts...

The Hampster

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#431872 - 09/13/10 02:47 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Morning Star]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
While I know that political discussion is reserved for downstairs I will try my best to keep my personal perspective as anti-political as possible.

1.) I think that every individual has a right to decide their own religion but in the end the strong over rule the weak. If one religion dominates another then that's just the way it is and always has been in the past.

2.) Illegal activities of any sorts are completely stupid.

For the Church of Satan's view click here. And doing juch acts in a public forums is even dumber. Obviously I am in full agreement with the policy of the Church of Satan which is why I sent the link to you. So it really doesn't matter what book he's using as a joint I see the act as an act of stupidity.
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#431873 - 09/13/10 03:04 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Morning Star]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8275
_________________________
"Consensus is the absence of leadership." Margaret Thatcher

"I'm fascinated with how primitive the human mind still is. It can be misdirected so easily." John Gaughan


"Success is uncommon. Therefore, not to be enjoyed by the common man." Cal Stoll

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#431874 - 09/13/10 03:10 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Morning Star]
Jupiter Offline


Registered: 03/20/09
Posts: 107
Loc: Eden
Since you've asked, I'm glad that this christian "black mass" against Islam didn't turn out well. If it did, it would probably be a spark for mass hysteria and possibly an unnecessary "holy war"

Christians and Muslims already are enemies, even if they disguise it, such event if took place would put more fuel on the fire, the consequences would be disastrous on all sides. They are mad and dangerous, both of them.

I don't care if they burn the Quran, or the "Book of Life," but not in public, some people may choose to do this in private like in a Black Mass. wink

Anyways, this is just my humble opinion.

I'd like to share more thoughts though, but you know all the publicity thing. grin
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"The finest trick of the devil is to persuade you that he does not exist" ~Charles Baudelaire

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#431875 - 09/13/10 03:31 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Phineas]
JayLucif Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 11/09/02
Posts: 1705
Loc: Helheim


I think this article at the CoS home site is all that needs said on this topic. I could not have said those words better even with days to think about them. Thank you Magister Phineas for shining the light in the right direction.
_________________________
------------------------------------------------------------

Freedom, baby is never having to say you're sorry. Guilt is like a bag of fuckin' bricks. All ya gotta do is set it down. John Milton - The Devil's Advocate!

I'm gonna pull the whole thing down. I'm gonna bring the whole fuckin' diseased, corrupt temple down on your head. It's gonna be biblical. Clyde Shelton - Law Abiding Citizen!


------------------------------------------------------------

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#431878 - 09/13/10 04:42 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Morning Star]
Morning Star Offline



Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 14
Loc: Tasmania, Australia
I didn't know this page existed. Couldn't agree more. Thanks for the link, if anyone has more light to shed please do.

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#431886 - 09/13/10 07:13 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Morning Star]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 6999
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
Originally Posted By: Morning Star
Hello Everyone.

I am just curious as to what you all thought about the recent attempt by Terry Jones in the U.S. to organise a burn the Koran day?




I thought it was mostly a media produced event. There is no reason, other than ratings, that I knew that a minister of about 12 people said he was going to burn books yesterday. It was nonsense.
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#431897 - 09/13/10 10:12 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: JayLucif]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8275
You are most welcome.
_________________________
"Consensus is the absence of leadership." Margaret Thatcher

"I'm fascinated with how primitive the human mind still is. It can be misdirected so easily." John Gaughan


"Success is uncommon. Therefore, not to be enjoyed by the common man." Cal Stoll

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#431908 - 09/13/10 03:19 PM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Morning Star]
spook show Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 06/30/07
Posts: 356
Loc: under your bed
Quote:
Do you think it is utter stupidity?


Yes, that's about right. Book burning is certainly nothing new, and probably won't be going away anytime soon as long as there are idiots around.

Although, I would love to see someone at a public book burning accidentally set themselves on fire, and go up in flames in front of the cameras. Now that would be entertaining! tiki tiki
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#431910 - 09/13/10 04:23 PM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: spook show]
munt Offline


Registered: 09/13/10
Posts: 23
Loc: Land of viscosity
Stupid, childish histrionics.
But surely it was obvious that allowing a mosque to be located within cooee of the 9/11 site would provoke a reaction, stupid decision.
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#431928 - 09/13/10 07:50 PM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: ]
Lust Offline


Registered: 11/02/05
Posts: 4214
I thought it was funny that this one lacked attention. They should have included that dreaded Muslim book and served Mexican food instead. That may have drew a better crowd. vomit

http://blog.seattlepi.com/bookpatrol/archives/182095.asp
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�Love is one of the most intense feelings felt by man; another is hate. Forcing yourself to feel indiscriminate love is very unnatural. If you try to love everyone you only lessen your feelings for those who deserve your love. Repressed hatred can lead to many physical and emotional aliments. By learning to release your hatred towards those who deserve it, you cleanse yourself of these malignant emotions and need not take your pent-up hatred out on your loved ones.�
Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible

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#431941 - 09/13/10 10:16 PM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Morning Star]
I'mPerfecting Offline


Registered: 02/03/08
Posts: 221
Loc: Florida
I live not far from there.
This topic was brought up...
It concluded with several people saying it be rather entertaining to watch the media circus. It would be the most excitement Gaines ville has ever had within its boarders.

However in light of the childish anti-religious stances, I made the following points... Christians buying qurans to burn are only spending money that will support the faith of those they are protesting. As for the middle east Islam will take any excuse it can get to riot. Those people are looking for any reason to kill, and activity commit atrocities in the name of their faith. It's sick! I would say burn the books on principle, but it goes against my nature to destroy any book. I also don't have irrational fears and think that words can hurt me.

Now maybe, just maybe we all just might get lucky, and like hyper active lab mice, from the wrong end of the gene pool, who freak out over every little noise or movement, Islamics too will get so worked up over nothing, that they will "kibby" them selves to death!!grin

Honestly
Fuck Islam !!! and the imaginary f(r)iends they fight for!!

The rest of world should not have to walk on egg shells, because every little thing will set these people off, with an excuse to kill or riot. They are holding the world hostage with childish threats of holding their breath and suffocating twenty other people with them. It's sad but it says a lot about how soft this race has become. sick

All over the world people are kowtowing to these threats and giving in to these demands for this imaginary figure, wrapped in the wicked disguise of respect. All over the world every one's trying to not be hypocritical so they are giving into what Ala wants. Which is what Islam wanted, the whole word obeying the demands of their imaginary friend or else... Or else what they'll blow up their own people?! I don't get it... vomit

You know if this was Brazil they would do the same things over soccer, at least soccer is real and only once a year (at least their predictable). God Damn it!!
tsk, tsk, tsk,
Hail Reason,

PS Thank you Magister Phineas for posting that article. H.P. Gilmore always makes an excellent point. It is nice to to see a sound voice of reason is still out there, after being inundated by the media frenzy.
_________________________
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"...Porcelain in a paper cup world."
~Almost Alice~

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#431947 - 09/14/10 01:08 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Morning Star]
Cryptodelic Offline


Registered: 07/17/09
Posts: 134
Loc: Seattle
Ho hum, a cheap attempt at media hijacking.

Now, If they burned an effigy of The Nazarene sodomizing Moho dressed in red white and blue, on Oprah, that might get more attention.


Edited by Cryptodelic (09/14/10 01:10 AM)
Edit Reason: not blasphemous enough
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#431957 - 09/14/10 02:58 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Cryptodelic]
JayLucif Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 11/09/02
Posts: 1705
Loc: Helheim
Originally Posted By: Cryptodelic
Moho


I must be way out of touch with things of the outside world, what exactly or who is MoHo I did a search and I am getting alot of weird results and not sure who or what you mean? Just out of curiosity Moho?
_________________________
------------------------------------------------------------

Freedom, baby is never having to say you're sorry. Guilt is like a bag of fuckin' bricks. All ya gotta do is set it down. John Milton - The Devil's Advocate!

I'm gonna pull the whole thing down. I'm gonna bring the whole fuckin' diseased, corrupt temple down on your head. It's gonna be biblical. Clyde Shelton - Law Abiding Citizen!


------------------------------------------------------------

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#431958 - 09/14/10 03:29 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Morning Star]
Spelled Moon
Unregistered


What I have found the most pitiful from the whole event, as someone watching it from outside (meaning, not involving a lot of emotions in it), was that two groups of people, one 'funnier' than the other (in my eyes), have 'met' in this 'argument' demonstrating their silliness, their empty certitude about that they hold a key to how the world should be, based on their non-existent, by the same silliness designed deities.

Again, the wars inside of a sandbox.
Or... What non-sense can we find and convince ourselves that it is worthy of fighting for? Behind what can we hide our human weakness so we can call it noble names and noble goals?

There is nothing worse than childish adults behaving in a mischievous, silly manner and pretending (or worse- believing) that all what they mean is very important and the only truth. Adults are dangerous and some people should never stop wearing Pampers.

Events like the mentioned one make me shake my head and want to move to some other planet.

One Czech band has this line in their lyrics 'The Middle Ages aren't over, the Middle Ages continue', and when thinking of Islam (or anything else lacking the grasp of reality and healthy reasoning), I am finding those words 101% true.

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#431971 - 09/14/10 09:25 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: JayLucif]
Luigi Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 349
Loc: Europe & South America
Originally Posted By: JayLucif
What exactly or who is MoHo.


I reckon the poster was making a reference to Mohammed, Muhammad, Mahommed, Mahoma, Mihemed, Maom, Maometto, Momo, Moho or whatever you want to call the prophet of Islam. jack

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#431975 - 09/14/10 10:13 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Luigi]
JayLucif Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 11/09/02
Posts: 1705
Loc: Helheim
Ahh that makes since then if that was the intent of the poster. Otherwise I was getting search results about Anime studio and something to do with geology which might just be way more interesting than watching misguided sheep argue over who's fairy tales are more important and who's version of them are more right from their imaginary made up friends. coopdevil
_________________________
------------------------------------------------------------

Freedom, baby is never having to say you're sorry. Guilt is like a bag of fuckin' bricks. All ya gotta do is set it down. John Milton - The Devil's Advocate!

I'm gonna pull the whole thing down. I'm gonna bring the whole fuckin' diseased, corrupt temple down on your head. It's gonna be biblical. Clyde Shelton - Law Abiding Citizen!


------------------------------------------------------------

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#431980 - 09/14/10 12:09 PM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Morning Star]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
For my part, all I'll say here is, I think bigotry and mass hysteria are much greater threats to our way of life than Muslim fanaticism.
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reprobate

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#431995 - 09/14/10 03:37 PM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: reprobate]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8275
Not even close.

The amount of deaths and property damage caused by bigotry and mass hysteria pales in comparison to that caused by Islam.

Bigotry and mass hysteria is not an organized group carrying out murder and destruction on a world wide scale.

Islam is.
_________________________
"Consensus is the absence of leadership." Margaret Thatcher

"I'm fascinated with how primitive the human mind still is. It can be misdirected so easily." John Gaughan


"Success is uncommon. Therefore, not to be enjoyed by the common man." Cal Stoll

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#431999 - 09/14/10 04:02 PM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Phineas]
Delta Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/18/07
Posts: 6755
Loc: Nar
Originally Posted By: reprobate
For my part, all I'll say here is, I think bigotry and mass hysteria are much greater threats to our way of life than Muslim fanaticism.


Originally Posted By: Phineas
Bigotry and mass hysteria is not an organized group carrying out murder and destruction on a world wide scale.

Islam is.


Yet Islam and Muslim fanaticism are bigotry and mass hysteria.
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#432001 - 09/14/10 04:32 PM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Delta]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Well, I did say it was "all" I would say. We were canvased for our opinions on the original question. Are you looking for me to clarify and expand upon my view, or to defend it? It might suffice to say I think Magister Phineas is wrong.

ETA: As always, I am willing to clarify my views, but I don't consider a BBS to be the appropriate place to defend them, nor do I consider anonymous strangers on the internet to be an audience to whom I really need to prove anything. I will only clarify if I'm asked by someone I think genuinely wants to talk about reasons, and isn't just looking for an opportunity to grandstand. (I should put this in my SIG. It's becoming my standard disclaimer.)


Edited by reprobate (09/14/10 05:55 PM)
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reprobate

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#432002 - 09/14/10 04:41 PM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: reprobate]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8275
Magister Phineas is absolutely correct, and his comment is backed by the empirical evidence of the last forty years.
_________________________
"Consensus is the absence of leadership." Margaret Thatcher

"I'm fascinated with how primitive the human mind still is. It can be misdirected so easily." John Gaughan


"Success is uncommon. Therefore, not to be enjoyed by the common man." Cal Stoll

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#432003 - 09/14/10 04:42 PM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Delta]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8275
Most bigots and mass hysterics are not murderers and terrorists. Being one does not necessarily lead to the other.

Islam is unique in that it is a religion of bigots and mass hysterics, and they have chosen the path of terrorism and murder.

Other religious bigots and mass hysterics are not doing that.

_________________________
"Consensus is the absence of leadership." Margaret Thatcher

"I'm fascinated with how primitive the human mind still is. It can be misdirected so easily." John Gaughan


"Success is uncommon. Therefore, not to be enjoyed by the common man." Cal Stoll

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#432004 - 09/14/10 04:42 PM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Phineas]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
I assure you, Magister Phineas, when your opinion of my opinion matters to me, I'll ask you for it.
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reprobate

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#432006 - 09/14/10 04:46 PM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: reprobate]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8275
If you can't handle the heat.....

Perhaps you should retreat to that academic playpen you reside in, and take a time out.
_________________________
"Consensus is the absence of leadership." Margaret Thatcher

"I'm fascinated with how primitive the human mind still is. It can be misdirected so easily." John Gaughan


"Success is uncommon. Therefore, not to be enjoyed by the common man." Cal Stoll

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#432009 - 09/14/10 05:39 PM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Phineas]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11570
Loc: New England, USA
Originally Posted By: Phineas
and his comment is backed by the empirical evidence of the last forty years.

Heck, let's just start with the current calendar year:
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks-2010.htm
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#432010 - 09/14/10 05:40 PM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Phineas]
Delta Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/18/07
Posts: 6755
Loc: Nar
One is not necessarily the other, but all are subsets of the same old disease. One might say that while Muslim fanatics from abroad are the greater threat to our lives, the local Christian fanatics are the greater threat to our way of life. The problem with that statement is that one's way of life comes to an abrupt end when one's life is ended. But it's also dangerous to discount the life-threatening danger of our own homegrown fanatics, be they local Christians, Muslims or some deranged Crowley nut. That said we need to keep perspective on the great skew on the graph: It's the Muslim extremists within our nation that concern me most, and the Christian extremists outside it that concern me least.

But seriously. Fuck every last degenerate breed and berth of them.
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#432030 - 09/14/10 10:04 PM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: reprobate]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
Quote:
I think bigotry and mass hysteria are much greater threats to our way of life than Muslim fanaticism.


Actually in the 1980's psychologists have abandoned that term and replaced it with various other terms. And in 1980 American Psychiatric Association officially changed the diagnosis to "conversion disorder". So it makes you even wonder just what the heck is "mass hysteria" to begin with?

Well here seems to be what psychologist Marc D. Feldman thinks: http://www.selfhelpmagazine.com/article/mass-hysteria

Though "mass hysteria" can be used to manipulate the masses it does no damage in of itself. Mixing the mass hysteria with religious fanaticism can be very dangerous and cause such death and destruction as the attacks on 9/11 did. So I do think that such things mixed with the fanaticism of religious belief causes a whole lot of blood shed. But it is the mixture of such that does and is not just 1 thing in of itself.

This is just my opinion.
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#432034 - 09/14/10 10:19 PM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Unknown]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
I wasn't using the term in a clinical sense. I meant collective actions undertaken by the willfully uninformed ("All I need to know", etc.), motivated by fear and hatred, absolved of responsibility by opportunistic demagogues.


Edited by reprobate (09/14/10 11:21 PM)
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reprobate

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#432036 - 09/14/10 10:26 PM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: reprobate]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
I see.

Well the clinical term certainly meets the criteria as part of the religious fanatical terrorists.

Sorry I misunderstood you. I have been studying psychology a lot lately.
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#432038 - 09/14/10 10:46 PM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: reprobate]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Originally Posted By: reprobate
For my part, all I'll say here is, I think bigotry and mass hysteria are much greater threats to our way of life than Muslim fanaticism.


Absolutely.

Granted, I *am* worried about Islamofascism, because I don't feel enough (sane) people and countries are seriously keeping an eye on it. Those in the public eye or public forum who are voicing their concerns and solutions tend to be completely stupid and utterly batshit insane, which just serves to further polarize the debate, and force middle-dwellers to side with one or the other extreme faction.

But, even when Islamofascism leaves the building, you still have countless other breeds and kinds of extremism, hysteria, and groupthink to contend with. Hell, even groups of perfectly average people can turn into rampaging mobs, given the proper incentives.

You also have to deal with the millions of people who think and speak in bumper stickers, and want to apply impulsive, quick-fix, yee-haw, ideologically-driven, bumper sticker solutions to complex, multi-faceted, potentially-long-term problems.

You certainly don't want to end up creating new terrorists, or new terrorist sympathizers, if you can help it. You really don't want to go propping rogue nations, or arming other factions of crazies, just because the enemy of your enemy is supposedly your friend. You ideally want to spend as little money, time, and lives as it takes to solve the problem in the long-term. You don't want to take or support actions that could end up eroding your own freedoms or liberties, or providing special interest groups or governments with the ability or excuse to do so. You have to be smart and thoughtful. You have to do your homework. You do ultimately have to be decisive, but you also can't be impulsive.

For example, this Quran-burning numbnut could conceivably get himself and/or members of his congregation killed--in which case, here's to one less screaming meamie on the planet.
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#432039 - 09/14/10 11:19 PM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Unknown]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
No apology necessary! No harm and no foul. If my point still stands under a more rigorous conception of "mass hysteria", so much the better for me. Just don't hold me to it. wink
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reprobate

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#432040 - 09/14/10 11:22 PM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: reprobate]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
Well I think that is part of it. But I don't think it is the whole of it.
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#432051 - 09/15/10 01:47 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Morning Star]
Old_Pig Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3969
Loc: The Deep South
Stunts like these have only two results. One is to give Muslim extremists one more excuse (not that they need many) to attack us. And the other is to give bad name to people who are seriously worried about the gradual implantation of Sharia law in Western countries.

Some days ago I read about an alQaeda leader who thanked Allah for Terry Jones and asked for ten more like him. Why? Because he serves as a perfect recruiting tool.

Meanwhile, the pastor got what he wanted. Lots of free publicity for his previously unknown church and perhaps a few additions to his moribund congregation.

Basically a win-win deal between two different groups of assholes!
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#432052 - 09/15/10 01:48 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: ]
I'mPerfecting Offline


Registered: 02/03/08
Posts: 221
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: Spelled Moon
What I have found the most pitiful from the whole event, as someone watching it from outside ...

Again, the wars inside of a sandbox.
Or... What non-sense can we find and convince ourselves that it is worthy of fighting for? Behind what can we hide our human weakness so we can call it noble names and noble goals?

One Czech band has this line in their lyrics 'The Middle Ages aren't over, the Middle Ages continue', and when thinking of Islam (or anything else lacking the grasp of reality and healthy reasoning), I am finding those words 101% true.


Well said,

You have quite the way with words for describing wars. Your stance is well played, I admire your diffusion techniques. cool

Even though I am more inclined to run the hose in the sand box because I prefer to watch mud wrestling,but I won't pour gasoline.
It is one thing to discuss a comment with a person who has a neutral persuasion.
It is another ball game altogether when the person has picked sides on the topic, I won't touch it with a ten foot pole. Next time, I might just borrow a line or two, and talk them out of asking. laugh

HS
_________________________
"...And the truth that makes us laugh, will make you cry!"
"...Porcelain in a paper cup world."
~Almost Alice~

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#432053 - 09/15/10 02:35 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Delta]
John Prophet Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 996
Loc: My suburban lair
Originally Posted By: Delta
One might say that while Muslim fanatics from abroad are the greater threat to our lives, the local Christian fanatics are the greater threat to our way of life. The problem with that statement is that one's way of life comes to an abrupt end when one's life is ended. But it's also dangerous to discount the life-threatening danger of our own homegrown fanatics, be they local Christians, Muslims or some deranged Crowley nut. That said we need to keep perspective on the great skew on the graph: It's the Muslim extremists within our nation that concern me most, and the Christian extremists outside it that concern me least.


Actually, Ive often thought that Islam is a bigger potential threat to our way of life. The thing about the "threat to our way of life is that it is a cultural issue, and it doesnt require such fanatical extremists to corrupt it. To me, any religious group that is not willing to abandon their spiritual mandate and properly integrate into secular society, at least with regards to dealing with issues and ideas that concern the general public, and public and cultural policy, is a threat to our way of life.

I honestly dont have much problem with people who claim to be a part of a religion, but leave their faith and believes at home when they step outside (Sunday Catholics) and are essentially Christian ( or Muslim or Jewish or Buddhist) in name only. In my opinion, the closer that a spiritual religions followers can get to that, the better.

While there is no doubt that there are still Christian fanatics in this country, I see them more as a dying breed rather than a threat to our way of life. Theyre making a lot of noise as theyre being blotted out. However, I have heard that Islam is growing very steadily around the world (if Im mistaken about this, please correct me) and I find that to be a greater cause for concern.

I also agree with your point that closer proximity creates a greater threat to our lives and a way of life in general. Perhaps Im more comfortable with Christianity because Ive seen many examples of how it can be so easily watered down by a secular society and that gives me more hope for the future. From its very beginning, Christianity has been willing to adapt to, and make allowances for, whatever culture that it is trying to infiltrate and I think that lack of standards will eventually be its undoing. I get the impression that many of the Islamic religions are a lot less willing to compromise than that, and actively oppose that type of cultural integration.

And when individual elements of multicultural societies arent willing to compromise, the only other alternative is for people to begin killing each other. We can only hope that many of these people who are deciding to become Muslims, arent very good ones. coopdevil


Edited by John Prophet (09/15/10 02:49 AM)
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#432054 - 09/15/10 03:12 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: John Prophet]
Delta Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/18/07
Posts: 6755
Loc: Nar
That was more a recapitulation of Warlock Reprobate than my own view, though I do agree with it to some extent. I do see Christianity as a greater threat to our "way of life" but only in a couple specific ways:

First, I mean our way with 'our' referring exclusively to Satanists living in the USA. Islam is taking over Europe like Kudzu in a way that tempts me to say "It can't happen here," a phrase we all know better than to use loosely. Many of the most vile reforms like Blasphemy laws and Sharia based laws are banned from the outset in the US (Not to say they might not weasel in somehow), this also applies to Christian based laws but is more effective with the later than the former simply because our culture here is so overwhelmed with a Christian mindset that laws work their way in without anyone noticing (Or if they do, like faith based initiatives, not enough people care to stop it). The way to create a Muslim Theocracy in the UK is far more blunt than the Christian Theocracy some would create here, it's even more subtle than the aforementioned Bush faith crap. It happens by the subtle 'good natured' and 'altruistic' legislation that people don't even realize is Christian in origin. Pentagonal Revisionism really nails it on the head for that one, "Religious beliefs secularized and incorporated into law". As more and more trends, not laws but trends, in government lean toward Christianity, Satanists have to walk farther and farther toward political goals, to find pockets of suitable culture, must take greater measures to protect their wealth (Just wait for 'Compulsory Charity' laws) and to protect their children from indoctrination. Satanists can overcome all of this, but it's damn annoying and in the end, what's annoying to us is the only evil worth considering. The only effect of Muslim Terrorism on many American Satanists has been heavier airport security, while the effect of less violent Christian nutjobs is the very fabric of our culture.

Look over that list Rev. Bill_M posted- Islam is by far more violent and terrible, but how many of those 2010 attacks are on US soil? That brings us to point 2-

Quantity and Proximity. The US doesn't have that many Muslims. It is flooded with Christians. Even if more Muslims tend to be extremists than Christians, the scale is so unbalanced that I suspect there are more would-be-violent Christians on American soil than would-be-violent Muslims. The low incidence of Christian Violence here, given the proportions, is actually a testament to how much more virulent Islam is than Christianity. But the fact remains, the majority rules here and the majority is Christian. Muslims aren't gonna vote up shit anytime soon. The role of proximity is obvious, and call me a cold old fart but I don't care half as much for Muslims in Pakistan blowing up thousands of Muslims in Pakistan as I do about one Muslim shooting two Satanists here (Cuz we're like the only two Satanists in this town). When I consider my own personal risk, I see maybe 2 shifty Muslims a year. I see 10 shifty Christians a day. I have never seen a Muslim cop, but I've met several evangelical police officers and if they got a warrant to search my house, I'd be surprised if they didn't execute me on the spot.

So in those two ways, I agree with the basic concept Reprobate advocated, however, when it comes to the topics discussed in this thread and the context in which I believe they were arguing, I'm closer to Phineas's view. I mentioned Bill_M's list and how most of the real shit is far from home, we need to keep it that way! Ignoring Phineas's assertion is far more dangerous than to ignore Reprobate's. However true the Warlock's point is, Phineas's is the one that keeps us from a bomb a day in every city. We must never lose sight of it. Still, Reprobate has highlighted a very real problem. I'm not back and forth on this, I'm not on the fence, but different parts of my views are on different sides of the fence, if that makes any sense.

Anybody want a peanut?
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#432056 - 09/15/10 03:37 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Delta]
NapalmNick Offline
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Registered: 08/23/08
Posts: 2153
Your views are well understood; they aren't confusing at all. Nor do they seem "on the fence" to me.

Here's what I'll add, from my own opinion. I looked at the extensive list Reverend Bill linked to, and was surprised how few of them took place in Europe. In fact, most of them took place in countries where Islam has already been for hundreds of years.

And yet Americans are dying in those places. I do not care if the number of Americans dying is far less than the number of Muslim civilians or enemies. The fact remains Americans have died and are dying in Afghanistan and Iraq. Through the powers of NATO we've made sure it isn't just Americans, either. Also Belgian, British, Canadian, etc.

Supposedly these engagements are to protect our freedom here. I don't buy that. It would seem to me that before we brought the fight to them, the denizens of Afghanistan and Iraq were happy being bigoted hysterics in countries where those qualities are not only acceptable, but the norm. The sloganized notion that these people hate us because we aren't bigoted and hysterical is so wrong it's funny, and then just sad.

Islam in Europe is an entirely different issue. I wish them the best, but to be blunt they did it to themselves.

In America we have rednecks with guns, many of whom proudly sport t-shirts, bumperstickers, and mugs all projecting the same sentiment as seen on the originally posted photo: Fuck Islam. They don't have a chance here.
_________________________
"Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris; not the end." --Leonard Nimoy as Captain Spock in The Undiscovered Country

"May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house." --George Carlin, Playin' With Your Head

"[There is] no contradiction between saying 'evolution has no purpose' and 'organisms have purposes'; just different vocabularies for different levels of description." --Sean Carroll

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#432060 - 09/15/10 04:40 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Delta]
John Prophet Offline

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Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 996
Loc: My suburban lair
After reading your explanation, I realize that its possible that I was underestimating the power that Christianity still has in this country, and perhaps over estimating the potential power that Islam could have.

But one thing that Id like to point out is that there are many people out there right now in the U.S., searching for increased structure and meaning in their lives. Combined this with peoples inherit need for masochism and I think that Islam can deliver a much purer version of many of those terrible things that the herd finds appealing about Christianity.

Im not suggesting that the majority of the country will suddenly turn Muslim overnight, but Id be willing to bet that we will see a continuing increase of the younger generations of Americans exploring Islam; which could have some dramatic long-term effects (aside from craving the rigidly structured father like aspects of the religion, theres also the added benefit of rebelling against their parents Christianity and the egalitarian notion of excepting another cultures exotic religion). I also cant help noticing that there seems to be a move within some groups in the U.S., to try to embrace Islam (quite possibly as a reaction to others who wish to demonize it).

The way that I see it, its just a matter of human nature. It seems to be the inevitable next step for people who are disenchanted with Christianity and want something stronger for their religious fix. I think that it would be a mistake to assume that a Muslim presence couldnt rapidly increase in the United States within a relatively (for a religion) short period of time.
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#432062 - 09/15/10 04:52 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: John Prophet]
Delta Offline
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Registered: 12/18/07
Posts: 6755
Loc: Nar
Agreed absolutely. One more reason I think ridicule is one of our greatest weapons. If it's different and pure, people will want it. If it's exotic and despised, they'll want it more. But nobody wants to be laughed at. The best way to ensure local homegrown extremists fail to connect with Islam, violet Christianity, or any other destructive-application philosophy is to make them all look like stupid silly idiots.

Burning the Koran makes people revile the burner and consider the burnt. But laughter deflates them utterly. Perhaps this is why they're afraid of Muhammad cartoons.

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#432065 - 09/15/10 05:15 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Delta]
John Prophet Offline

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Loc: My suburban lair
Exactly! I think that this is one of the reasons why many religions (including parts of Christianity) have often tried to ban visual depictions and images of various things.

Images have power! And can take the mystery and power away from these religions and their deities. Youre not supposed to see the man behind the curtain and youre certainly not supposed to see him being screwed by a camel or crying in diapers. grin

Propaganda can be a very good thing.
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#432066 - 09/15/10 05:17 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Delta]
Machismo Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/05/10
Posts: 1132
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: Delta
I'm not back and forth on this, I'm not on the fence, but different parts of my views are on different sides of the fence, if that makes any sense.


Nuanced thinking is necessary, I think, for a serious strategic or tactical discussion, or a serious philosophical one.

I will define the short term as today plus fifty years. Anything farther in the future than that will be the long term.

In the short term, Islam is a greater threat to an American Satanist's physical survival than Fundamentalist Christianity, but Fundamentalist Christianity is a greater threat to an American Satanist's quality of life than Islam. I say this because (a) Islamic jihadists want to kill Americans right now and and Fundamentalist Christians don't; and (b) Fundamentalist Christians are impacting American politics right now and Islamic jihadists as citizens, voters, politicians, and demagogues, are not.

In the long term, Fundamentalist Christianity could become as great a threat to an American Satanist's physical survival as Islam, and Islam could become as great a threat to an American Satanist's quality of life as Fundamentalist Christianity. I say this because (a) American is becoming more and more atheist, and once a certain threshold is reached, political maneuvering will stop working for Fundamentalist Christians, and the failure of political tactics is often the trigger for initiating violent tactics; and (b) Muslims are coming to America in ever greater numbers and breeding like rabbits, so they will eventually become a significant voting bloc, due to the invincibility of math.

In the long term as I have defined it, I will probably be dead - but maybe not, given the accelerating progress of medicine. If we take as a proposition that a majority of us on this message board may be alive in the long term as I have defined it, then logic and pragmatism will dictate that we view both Islam and Fundamentalist Christianity as threats both physical and cultural and oppose both in both arenas. The best way to do this, I think, is to support science and atheism in whatever ways we find congenial. Science and atheism are the left jab and right cross that will clobber both Islam and Fundamentalist Christianity, but only if properly executed, which means, with all of our body weight behind them.


Edited by Machismo (09/15/10 06:54 AM)
Edit Reason: Clarified element (b) of the second sentence of the third paragaph.
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#432071 - 09/15/10 06:12 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Machismo]
NapalmNick Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/23/08
Posts: 2153
Originally Posted By: Machismo
Islam is a greater threat to an American Satanist's physical survival than Fundamentalist Christianity

I have to disagree. The vast majority of people who could harm or kill you are Christian. I'm not saying you'd ever do anything to earn a redneck's contempt, but in a hypothetical situation that you did, and he shot you, I'm willing to bet said redneck was some brand of Christianity. Furthermore, this man probably has a seething hatred for Islam. Most of the Muslims here are actually very docile in comparison. In fact, it's been observed that Muslims in North America have a very low track record of stirring up shit.

Now, as for the Muslims out there, you have to understand the theater of conflicts and relationships the west (specifically the USA) has had with them in order to appreciate the finer points of my disagreement.

The country with the highest Muslim population is Indonesia, in southeast Asia. Aside from them, the vast majority of the Muslim world resides in what we call the "Middle East" and northern Africa. A few of these countries have massive oil reserves, and Persia (Iran) happened to be fucked over each and every way for it. Once the British left Persia, this left them with a huge resentment for western traditions, and understandably so. A similar situation almost happened in Saudi Arabia when oil was discovered there. Well, turns out oil is very important to us, and now those nations which store the oil are in a unique position of power.

Afghanistan. Soviets invade, America no like Soviet. Secretly fund Afghans to kick ass. America and Afghanistan best buds.

Kuwait. Iraq invade. America say fuck that, we savez you. We savez with great might, kick many ass. We has lots of troops. Needs place to store. Oh! Saudi Arabia sez OK? Kewl. We storez troops in Saudi Arabia. But fundie Muslims no like. Say is bad for holy sites. Americans infidels. Get troops off landz. dis in 1991 LOL.

Since then anti-American sentiments have only risen in these places. It culminated on 9/11, which I think is an obvious and direct response to a continued American presence in Saudi Arabia.

Naturally, we wanted blood. So we go after Osama, who used to be our pal back in the day. Trouble is now nobody knows where the fuck he is. The sad part is the current situation doesn't even call for anyone admitting that, because they don't have to. The United States government has already pretty much admitted that Osama is no longer their concern. The "concerns" are rebuilding Iraq (cleaning up our own shit), and fighting off random dickheads in Afghanistan.

None of the Muslims overseas are capable of even looking at you the wrong way. The USA got its rocks off in a tit-for-tat and lost count. The whole idea that foreign Muslims hate you for your freedom is a myth. The truth is that they don't give a shit about your freedom. What they do give a shit about is invading soldiers, and until there are no soldiers to shoot at, they will continue to do so.

In a purely diplomatic sense, the USA has made little to no sense in its engagements with the Muslim world. On the other hand, the Muslim world, however cruel, has acted logically; when you examine each side's motives, it is easy to see where many of the terrorist groups are coming from. It is very difficult to even begin to understand where America is coming from.

Now, as an American, and as a Satanist, I hate Islam. I don't want anything to do with it. I am not in favor of completely disregarding Islam as a threat. But I will say that the threat has been MASSIVELY blown out of proportion.
_________________________
"Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris; not the end." --Leonard Nimoy as Captain Spock in The Undiscovered Country

"May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house." --George Carlin, Playin' With Your Head

"[There is] no contradiction between saying 'evolution has no purpose' and 'organisms have purposes'; just different vocabularies for different levels of description." --Sean Carroll

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#432080 - 09/15/10 07:21 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: NapalmNick]
John Prophet Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 996
Loc: My suburban lair
Originally Posted By: NapalmNick
Since then anti-American sentiments have only risen in these places. It culminated on 9/11, which I think is an obvious and direct response to a continued American presence in Saudi Arabia.

...The whole idea that foreign Muslims hate you for your freedom is a myth. The truth is that they don't give a shit about your freedom. What they do give a shit about is invading soldiers, and until there are no soldiers to shoot at, they will continue to do so.


Although Im sure that the presence of American soldiers is a factor in contributing to their hostility, I doubt that theyd just leave us alone if we left them alone.

There actually is some precedent for the Islamic world greatly disliking western culture based on our differences. (Read this: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1253796)

They hate our lawns and our revealing clothing! grin

The way I see it, some of these groups just want to take over. They have no tolerance for anything that is too different from them and, to put it bluntly, they dont like the fact that we exist at all.


Edited by John Prophet (09/15/10 07:56 AM)
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#432081 - 09/15/10 07:25 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: NapalmNick]
Machismo Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/05/10
Posts: 1132
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: NapalmNick
The vast majority of people who could harm or kill you are Christian. I'm not saying you'd ever do anything to earn a redneck's contempt, but in a hypothetical situation that you did, and he shot you, I'm willing to bet said redneck was some brand of Christianity.


True, Nick, but his Christianity would be irrelevant to the situation. He wouldn't be shooting me because he thinks Jesus wants him to. This is where that lovely word qua so favored by Ayn Rand has its uses. The Christian qua Christian is no physical threat to me right now in America.

Man, am I a word nut. blush

Quote:
Furthermore, this man probably has a seething hatred for Islam. Most of the Muslims here are actually very docile in comparison. In fact, it's been observed that Muslims in North America have a very low track record of stirring up shit.


True, because they're numerically trivial and they know it. Plus a lot of them are from Turkey, which has been experimenting the last few decades with secularism. But 9/11 happened, after all, and something like it could happen again. Why there hasn't been a follow-up here on American soil is debated from various perspectives, and I won't jump into that pool on this thread. I just have to think it's true that if some religious nut blows something up in America because he's a religious nut, he will probably be Muslim.

Quote:
Since then anti-American sentiments have only risen in these places. It culminated on 9/11, which I think is an obvious and direct response to a continued American presence in Saudi Arabia.


Yes - plus our alliance with Israel.

Quote:
None of the Muslims overseas are capable of even looking at you the wrong way.


Except that one time when they managed to knock some buildings down. How they accomplished that yet today seem incapable of blowing up a bus over here - nope, not jumping into that pool on this thread. cool


Quote:
The truth is that they don't give a shit about your freedom. What they do give a shit about is invading soldiers, and until there are no soldiers to shoot at, they will continue to do so.


They also want Israel to cease to exist as a nation. Plus they want Islam to be the state religion of every nation on the planet. We need to remember that last part.

Quote:
It is very difficult to even begin to understand where America is coming from.


Oil, Israel, military contractors, and the Orwell/Bradbury strategy of always keeping a foreign war front and center on the television.

Quote:
Now, as an American, and as a Satanist, I hate Islam. I don't want anything to do with it. I am not in favor of completely disregarding Islam as a threat. But I will say that the threat has been MASSIVELY blown out of proportion.


Why today they seem incapable of blowing up a bus over here - nope, not jumping into that pool on this thread. cool
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#432089 - 09/15/10 09:08 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Delta]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
To be absolutely as clear as I can be here:

I never denied that Muslim terrorism is a threat to Western lives. It is currently a greater threat than white domestic anti-fed terrorism of the McVeigh stripe (though I wouldn't underestimate that), and certainly a much greater threat than military action from any foreign power.

My statement was about what I consider to be a nearer and more widespread domestic threat to our way of life, the one fanatics want to kill us for, the one that many people have died to protect.

My life is under a certain level of threat. My basic liberties, those of people I count as friends, and the peace and order of my community are also under threat from people who claim they are "protecting" our civilization from the first threat. I'm not one to give up essential liberties for temporary security.

I also think we have to be frank and honest with ourselves about the extent to which Muslim anti-Western fanaticism has been fueled by Western anti-Muslim bigotry in the past, and will continue to be so fueled in the future. Yes, that knife cuts both ways, their fanaticism has also fueled our bigotry; but the side of the equation that is under our control is our attitude toward them, and adopting the right attitude now is the key to a long-term positive outcome later. The more heavy-handed and indiscriminate our reaction, the worse things will become. The more lines in the sand we insist on drawing, the fewer allies we'll find on our side when we draw the last one. If we paint all Muslims with the same brush as terrorists, and impose burdensome hurdles and double standards on their efforts to distinguish themselves from terrorists, we are creating a situation where their interests align more with those of the terrorists than with ours. Why would they lift a finger to support us, if we treat them as mental retards and walking biohazards -- or, dare I say it, as demons?

Those are my views, about as explicitly stated as I can make them right now. I hadn't intended to say this much here, but I want to lay it all out to prevent something wrong from being imputed to me.


Edited by reprobate (09/15/10 09:40 AM)
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#432093 - 09/15/10 10:51 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Old_Pig]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Originally Posted By: Old_Pig
Stunts like these have only two results. One is to give Muslim extremists one more excuse (not that they need many) to attack us. And the other is to give bad name to people who are seriously worried about the gradual implantation of Sharia law in Western countries.

Some days ago I read about an alQaeda leader who thanked Allah for Terry Jones and asked for ten more like him. Why? Because he serves as a perfect recruiting tool.

Meanwhile, the pastor got what he wanted. Lots of free publicity for his previously unknown church and perhaps a few additions to his moribund congregation.

Basically a win-win deal between two different groups of assholes!


Precisely. This is very much in line with what I said above, but in fewer words.

Originally Posted By: reprobate

The more heavy-handed and indiscriminate our reaction, the worse things will become.


Exactly.

Of course, if we're not decisive and firm enough, that could also end up doing us in, like it's doing certain European countries in, slowly. So, there's an incredibly fine line to walk here.

Originally Posted By: reprobate
Why would they lift a finger to support us, if we treat them as mental retards and walking biohazards -- or, dare I say it, as demons?


Herein lies the crux of the dilemma, for me, and it demonstrates why neither Noam Chomsky or Sean Hannity will be coming up with a real, workable solution to this problem any time soon.

I think there will be many times when we will have to be willing and able to identify problem people and problem ideologies without brazenly calling them out, in the same way that wolves will often circle their prey in a wide arc, because going straight through the middle would cause the prey to panic and scatter.

Originally Posted By: John Prophet
But one thing that Id like to point out is that there are many people out there right now in the U.S., searching for increased structure and meaning in their lives. Combined this with peoples inherit need for masochism and I think that Islam can deliver a much purer version of many of those terrible things that the herd finds appealing about Christianity.


About a year ago, I actually read an article about fundamentalist Christians who had converted to Islam, because they were searching for a religion with even HIGHER and more stringent standards and requirements.

Well, and notice how a couple of the Islamic terrorist threats in the news this year came from women who, for all intents and purposes, appeared to be your standard hillbilly white-trash. It's quite plausible that Islam could become the hot new way of advertising (as well as trying to combat or overcome) one's sense of disenfranchisement--not just for Arabs or Persians, but whites, as well!
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#432100 - 09/15/10 11:52 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: TrojZyr]
John Prophet Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 996
Loc: My suburban lair
Originally Posted By: TrojZyr
Herein lies the crux of the dilemma, for me, and it demonstrates why neither Noam Chomsky or Sean Hannity will be coming up with a real, workable solution to this problem any time soon.

I think there will be many times when we will have to be willing and able to identify problem people and problem ideologies without brazenly calling them out, in the same way that wolves will often circle their prey in a wide arc, because going straight through the middle would cause the prey to panic and scatter.

I think that youre correct about that being the appropriate approach in many instances; but as you pointed out, the hard part is figuring out exactly how to do that in a way that will yield beneficial results. Unfortunately, that mixture of a cautious and yet subtly proactive approach seems very counterintuitive for an issue like this.

Originally Posted By: TrojZyr
Well, and notice how a couple of the Islamic terrorist threats in the news this year came from women who, for all intents and purposes, appeared to be your standard hillbilly white-trash. It's quite plausible that Islam could become the hot new way of advertising (as well as trying to combat or overcome) one's sense of disenfranchisement--not just for Arabs or Persians, but whites, as well!

Yes and I strongly suspect that well be seeing a lot more of that sort of thing in the future.


Edited by John Prophet (09/15/10 11:53 AM)
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#432121 - 09/15/10 03:25 PM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: John Prophet]
XUL Offline


Registered: 12/12/09
Posts: 238
Loc: Oslo, Norway
The thing is; if Jesus is living in your heart - as that famous flame of love - and God knows all that you're doing -- then why isn't it enough to download a PDF Koran from the internet and then unceremonoiously delete it afterwards? It serves the same purpose as buying a paperback copy in a bookstore and then lighting it up with matches. God and Jesus will know. So who's the great big show for?

As far as monotheists go - and I do think they're a bunch of sick fucking wackos - I find that I respect the Muslims the most. Not because their thinking is all that sound but simply because they usually pracise what they preach to a higher degree than any of the others. It's like facing two different psychotic lunatics: One who's a completely incoherent street bum and another one who's got class.

I believe much of the tragedy with the Muslims - and the reason for today's conflicts - is that their natural leaders got killed off by various outside forces who wanted their oil and whatnot stuff. So all that they're left with is what amounts to the same as any Flaming Sword Of Joshua type of pentecostal Christian church in the west.



Edited by XUL (09/15/10 03:28 PM)
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#432125 - 09/15/10 04:05 PM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: reprobate]
Delta Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/18/07
Posts: 6755
Loc: Nar
Those are, of course, the points on which I stated I agreed with you (Including the semantic "way of life") plus one more-

You only have to look at the numbers to see how Americans get killed by Muslim extremists. 3000 over here, 6729 over there as a result. That's far from saying it never happens here, a third of all Americans murdered by Muslim extremists have been killed on US soil thanks to one major incident. But more than twice that have been killed in the war on terror. The critical question becomes why. Are we fighting terrorism because our leaders are Christian? Does the Christian extremism of Bush and those who elected him really rank the top factor in our current embroilments? If you'd asked me in 2001 I'd have said absolutely, Bush is a theocrat and evil and blah blah blah.

But I'm not so certain any more. I can't so easily call it pure religious jingoism. I won't say it's over oil or revenge or WMD, but I honestly don't think it has much to do with the religious difference any more, nor the US painting all Muslims as terrorists, nor has the common US perception of all Muslims as terrorists particularly effected the course of our wars from the standpoint of highly regulated and publicized war policy. The real cause and problem both abroad and at home is-

Actually that's diverging from the point of this thread and delving into politics, so I'll go ahead and post the later half of my reply in that forum right now.
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#432127 - 09/15/10 04:26 PM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: John Prophet]
NapalmNick Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/23/08
Posts: 2153
I started to type up a full reply to John Prophet and Machismo, but realized that it was very, very political. So, if anyone wants to know the nitty gritty of my particular views on this subject, I guess PM will have to suffice.
_________________________
"Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris; not the end." --Leonard Nimoy as Captain Spock in The Undiscovered Country

"May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house." --George Carlin, Playin' With Your Head

"[There is] no contradiction between saying 'evolution has no purpose' and 'organisms have purposes'; just different vocabularies for different levels of description." --Sean Carroll

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#432131 - 09/15/10 04:49 PM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Jupiter]
Jupiter Offline


Registered: 03/20/09
Posts: 107
Loc: Eden
Hi,

This thread is very interesting to me, and i find it sort of informative too, I'd like to share some of my thought on the subject as someone who live in an Islamic country.

The way i view it, that Muslims has much power here, the government knows it and that's why since the so-called revolution which turned the country from monarchy into a republic, leaders of the country always prosecuted The Muslim Brotherhood. I feel that Islam is a dying faith, and its final days are coming thus they cry the loudest. Everyone one here knows that the "true Muslims" are liars and hypocrites, I deal with them everyday and they are the most people who I take care of because they are dishonest but playing the good guy.

As a someone who would like to see more freedom in my country, I'm glad that the country is moving toward a more secular government, recently hijab (neqab) was banned in universities. Muslims does not poses direct threat on me I can handle them, but there is a powerful political group that is working and working to control the country, this would be a true nightmare.

On a final note, no one has power over you unless you allow them.

Should you've a question regarding my post, do ask.
_________________________
"The finest trick of the devil is to persuade you that he does not exist" ~Charles Baudelaire

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#432132 - 09/15/10 04:50 PM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: TrojZyr]
Machismo Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/05/10
Posts: 1132
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: TrojZyr
It's quite plausible that Islam could become the hot new way of advertising (as well as trying to combat or overcome) one's sense of disenfranchisement--not just for Arabs or Persians, but whites, as well!


Wouldn't surprise me a bit. For one thing, Islam makes more sense than Christianity. Not much of an accomplishment, I'll grant you, but still, all you have to believe to be Muslim is that a Supreme Being created the universe, talked to man through Mohammed, wants us to behave a certain way, and doles out rewards and punishments based on whether we do. That's it. More than you or I might be willing to believe, but it's a hell of a lot simpler, more coherent, more straightforward, and more internally consistent than the jumble of gibberish that passes for Christian theology. Add to that the fact that Islam has balls, is in fact a warrior religion, veins pumping with testosterone, and the appeal grows. Add the anti-Jewish sentiment, and, for some, the appeal grows still more. Hell, for some, even the anti-American sentiment, if interpreted as aimed at the government rather than the citizens, could add to the appeal. You get to give the finger to your Christian parents, the feminists, the Jews, and the government, all in one fell swoop, and you can even explain your ideology while standing on one foot. The crescent moon might soon be the new swastika! cool
_________________________


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#432133 - 09/15/10 04:50 PM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Delta]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Yeah, I agree that anti-Muslim bigotry is a symptom of other problems going on, not a root cause. And the problems have been festering for a long time.

I didn't mean to give the impression that I think Christian extremists have a monopoly on anti-Muslim bigotry. The guys promoting book burning this month were Christian, but a lot of the bigotry also comes from atheists, especially in Europe.

For my part, I can only say, I'm not a Satanist because I hate Muslims (or Christians, etc.). I'm a Satanist because I disagree with them in some pretty basic ways. But I've found that there are people of all religions, including Muslims, who are willing to live and let live, or talk about those differences frankly and honestly and respectfully. Those people are worthwhile, more so than a lot of morons who come in here and try to pass themselves off as "elite" because they profess the same views as me. I'm not interested in sweeping insults. That's cheap and boring. It ignores the details, and you know me when it comes to details. Satanism has a long tradition of satire and shock, which I celebrate, but it's a fine line between that and baseless, ignorant baiting.
_________________________
reprobate

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#432150 - 09/15/10 08:59 PM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: TrojZyr]
Lust Offline


Registered: 11/02/05
Posts: 4214
Just a quick note to Citizens Delta and Direktor.

Originally Posted By: TrojZyr
Well, and notice how a couple of the Islamic terrorist threats in the news this year came from women who, for all intents and purposes, appeared to be your standard hillbilly white-trash. It's quite plausible that Islam could become the hot new way of advertising (as well as trying to combat or overcome) one's sense of disenfranchisement--not just for Arabs or Persians, but whites, as well!


That has all the makings of a great B movie. whistle
_________________________
�Love is one of the most intense feelings felt by man; another is hate. Forcing yourself to feel indiscriminate love is very unnatural. If you try to love everyone you only lessen your feelings for those who deserve your love. Repressed hatred can lead to many physical and emotional aliments. By learning to release your hatred towards those who deserve it, you cleanse yourself of these malignant emotions and need not take your pent-up hatred out on your loved ones.�
Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible

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#432172 - 09/16/10 03:38 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Lust]
XUL Offline


Registered: 12/12/09
Posts: 238
Loc: Oslo, Norway
Originally Posted By: Tier Instinct
all the makings of a great B movie


Oh hell yeah! In the spirit of 70's "blacksploitation" movies, I'd love to see for instance a Muslim version of SHAFT... (Then on a second thought, aren't they doing that already in Bollywood?)
_________________________
The Maxistic Paradigm

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#432174 - 09/16/10 03:51 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Lust]
Delta Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/18/07
Posts: 6755
Loc: Nar
Fatima Jones just wanted to praise Allah. But they had other ideas.

Redneck: "You Moose slims ain't welcome in this here county!" (Bang, shoots her parents)

But she survived, and now it's time for revenge.

Fatima: "There is no motherfucker like Allah, and I am his toughest bitch!" (Cocks gun, shot of car with name of Allah jumping over river)

Zuhoornatali Muhmajinamatar stars as Fatima Jones in: "Shahada 'Nuf Out Of You." (Fatima picks up a mujeheddin on her motorcycle)

Muja: We can't go yet, Fatima! Where's Achmed???
(Fatima pulls up her burqa to reveal another burqa)
Fatime: Achmed's dead baby, Achmed's dead.
_________________________






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#432176 - 09/16/10 05:11 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Delta]
Machismo Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/05/10
Posts: 1132
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: Delta
Zuhoornatali Muhmajinamatar stars as Fatima Jones in: "Shahada 'Nuf Out Of You." (Fatima picks up a mujeheddin on her motorcycle)


But the mujeheddin should look like this guy. Aryan as all hell. Just put some words on his helmet, like -

Moho
Mofo

On the front of his shield, a crescent moon and the word, "Stoner," which won't mean what it normally would, but instead, describes this guy when he encounters, in his words, "Chicks who show tit."


Attachments
Crom.jpg


_________________________


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#432265 - 09/17/10 04:13 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Morning Star]
MagdaGraham Offline
CoS Priestess

Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 13369
Loc: Scotland
_________________________
We are the makers of manners. (Shakespeare)

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/clickToGive/home.faces?siteId=3

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#432269 - 09/17/10 04:50 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Morning Star]
MoongleMoose Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 11/09/09
Posts: 76
Loc: South O' Sydney
Quote:
''Well,'' said Billy-Bob Huxley, a leading Texan non-believer, ''look on the bright side; Dawkins will be happy for the royalties. And we figure the book is filled with truths that can't be burnt.''


Exactly.
Something that these fools obviously hadn't taken into account.

More to burning Richard Dawkins' books! More money he gets, more goes into the RDFRS (Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Science), to which I have happily donated and continue to support.


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#432276 - 09/17/10 07:50 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: MagdaGraham]
JayLucif Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 11/09/02
Posts: 1705
Loc: Helheim


Thank you for that article link, that brought a smile to my face and showed a stark contrast over using Reason over say complete mindlessly mass insanity.

Although I disagree is some ways how modern Atheism is fully carried out. I still could not help from noticing how those, at least those who use their minds to figure things out, over those who are manipulated by religious thought and their religious leaders. Makes one really consider the Third side here, based off of the media reporting and those who reacted to the reporting of this little small town preacher's planned actions and those who went out in a emotional fueled frenzy into those communities over those plans. One really does have to think about who really are Satanic in all of this or those who use the Devil's tools when appropriate, and think about who the defacto Satanic ones are at the very least.

Bravo!!!
_________________________
------------------------------------------------------------

Freedom, baby is never having to say you're sorry. Guilt is like a bag of fuckin' bricks. All ya gotta do is set it down. John Milton - The Devil's Advocate!

I'm gonna pull the whole thing down. I'm gonna bring the whole fuckin' diseased, corrupt temple down on your head. It's gonna be biblical. Clyde Shelton - Law Abiding Citizen!


------------------------------------------------------------

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#432283 - 09/17/10 08:25 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: spook show]
Sammi Offline


Registered: 09/17/10
Posts: 16
As somebody who doesn't believe in insulting the religions and beliefs of others, I think that this is unacceptable. Clearly a way to attract the attention of the media and the public, as most of you have said.

Originally Posted By: 2thenight
Although, I would love to see someone at a public book burning accidentally set themselves on fire, and go up in flames in front of the cameras. Now that would be entertaining! tiki tiki

Absolutely; I love the sound of this!


Edited by Sammi (09/17/10 08:25 AM)

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#432292 - 09/17/10 09:27 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Sammi]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8275
You don't want to insult others but don't mind seeing them injured.

Interesting.
_________________________
"Consensus is the absence of leadership." Margaret Thatcher

"I'm fascinated with how primitive the human mind still is. It can be misdirected so easily." John Gaughan


"Success is uncommon. Therefore, not to be enjoyed by the common man." Cal Stoll

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#432303 - 09/17/10 11:08 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Phineas]
Sammi Offline


Registered: 09/17/10
Posts: 16
Originally Posted By: Phineas
You don't want to insult others but don't mind seeing them injured.

Interesting.

What goes around, comes around - so if that did happen (unlikely as it may be), the book burner probably deserves it. I apologize for not making that clear in my previous post.


Edited by Sammi (09/17/10 11:16 AM)

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#432314 - 09/17/10 11:23 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Sammi]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8275
What goes around, comes around

Conduct a little search on Islam and book burning, bible burning, and people burning. wink
_________________________
"Consensus is the absence of leadership." Margaret Thatcher

"I'm fascinated with how primitive the human mind still is. It can be misdirected so easily." John Gaughan


"Success is uncommon. Therefore, not to be enjoyed by the common man." Cal Stoll

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#432315 - 09/17/10 11:38 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Phineas]
Sammi Offline


Registered: 09/17/10
Posts: 16
Will do - thank you for the recommendation. smile

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#432320 - 09/17/10 12:29 PM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Phineas]
XUL Offline


Registered: 12/12/09
Posts: 238
Loc: Oslo, Norway
Originally Posted By: Phineas
You don't want to insult others but don't mind seeing them injured.


That's the prerogative of, say, a professional boxer. whistle
_________________________
The Maxistic Paradigm

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#432467 - 09/20/10 07:13 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Morning Star]
MagdaGraham Offline
CoS Priestess

Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 13369
Loc: Scotland
_________________________
We are the makers of manners. (Shakespeare)

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/clickToGive/home.faces?siteId=3

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#432473 - 09/20/10 07:55 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: MagdaGraham]
Lust Offline


Registered: 11/02/05
Posts: 4214
Every single officer who was on duty is entitled this pay for their precious time. Many officers where I live provide off duty security and has served a valuable service in the community. The criminal mind of Terry Jones may just get him locked up before long. The cool thing is is that Florida puts their inmates to work picking up trash in green and white stripes along side major highways. A possibility for Jones should he buck the state of Florida and lose.
_________________________
�Love is one of the most intense feelings felt by man; another is hate. Forcing yourself to feel indiscriminate love is very unnatural. If you try to love everyone you only lessen your feelings for those who deserve your love. Repressed hatred can lead to many physical and emotional aliments. By learning to release your hatred towards those who deserve it, you cleanse yourself of these malignant emotions and need not take your pent-up hatred out on your loved ones.�
Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible

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#432476 - 09/20/10 08:36 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Lust]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8275
The one thing that might bankrupt Jones is the retainer for a good lawyer, one that can fight that "bill".

The officers dispatched were done so at the request of the authorities, not Jones. A competent lawyer will take the authorities to task on this. Also, is there any precedent for this type of "bill" being slapped on someone who threatens to burn some books? Haven't found it.

Do the organizers of protests get charged with the bill for then police presence that usually accompanies these events? Haven't found an example.

We shall see how this guy chooses to proceed.

"The criminal mind of Terry Jones ..." Opinion, or do you have evidence to support this?
_________________________
"Consensus is the absence of leadership." Margaret Thatcher

"I'm fascinated with how primitive the human mind still is. It can be misdirected so easily." John Gaughan


"Success is uncommon. Therefore, not to be enjoyed by the common man." Cal Stoll

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#432477 - 09/20/10 08:55 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Phineas]
MoongleMoose Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 11/09/09
Posts: 76
Loc: South O' Sydney
Originally Posted By: Phineas

The officers dispatched were done so at the request of the authorities, not Jones.



Quote:
'If we had known this in advance, then we would have refused to have security,' he said.


Keyword being "refused". The initiative to call in police security was done by the cause and effect of Jones' actions:

Quote:
Officials in Gainesville said Jones is liable for the cost of policing as they provided a 'direct service' to the church.


A "Direct Service" is a private organisational contract between the client and the security force in question, in this case being the Good Pastor and the Police Department.

The article given however, doesn't really provide any citations and references that gives the reader an informed opinion on the matter and I'd say that it's purpose is to fuel the sensationalism that seems to be spewing out of this already rancid story.

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#432479 - 09/20/10 09:28 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Phineas]
Lust Offline


Registered: 11/02/05
Posts: 4214
I made that statement because I think he is batshit crazy and he is ugly. grin
Nietzsche said that ugly people are criminals. I will for now retract that statement and thank you for keeping me on my toes. Online criminal checks do have Jones in their database but I will not pay to access it.

There are interesting notes in the links below regarding Jones' past in Germany too.

the divinely ordained head of the community, which could not be undone by anyone mortal.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread610058/pg1

http://www.assistnews.net/Stories/2010/s10090056.htm
_________________________
�Love is one of the most intense feelings felt by man; another is hate. Forcing yourself to feel indiscriminate love is very unnatural. If you try to love everyone you only lessen your feelings for those who deserve your love. Repressed hatred can lead to many physical and emotional aliments. By learning to release your hatred towards those who deserve it, you cleanse yourself of these malignant emotions and need not take your pent-up hatred out on your loved ones.�
Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible

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#432608 - 09/21/10 04:13 PM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Morning Star]
chaoticbliss Offline


Registered: 09/21/10
Posts: 12
Loc: IA unted states
The burning of the cryon was messed up even though im not of any religions. I believe its wrong to do so. We might as well start attacking jews for ther religon. i can understand people being mad about 9/11. I guess the best way to put it is that we are most often are own worst enemy. What would of happened if they attacked us again using that as a excuse. Then whos to blame?

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#432612 - 09/21/10 04:35 PM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: chaoticbliss]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11570
Loc: New England, USA
Originally Posted By: chaoticbliss
The burning of the cryon [sic] was messed up even though im [sic] not of any religions. I believe its [sic] wrong to do so. We might as well start attacking jews for ther [sic] religon. [sic]

How do you figure? I don't see any terrorists blowing up buildings or beheading people in the name of the Hebrew Scriptures. We do however see things like that happening all the time with Muslim terrorists and the Koran.
_________________________
Reverend Bill M.

http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
New hour every week. Download the mp3 now!

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#432614 - 09/21/10 04:40 PM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Morning Star]
LKRice Offline

CoS Priestess

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 6368
What does burning crayons have to do with anything?
_________________________
Director
Committee for the
Promotion of Vice and
Prevention of Virtue

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#432618 - 09/21/10 04:48 PM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: LKRice]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11570
Loc: New England, USA
Originally Posted By: LKRice
What does burning crayons have to do with anything?

That's a whole other ball of wax, Priestess.



Attachments
drum.PNG


_________________________
Reverend Bill M.

http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
New hour every week. Download the mp3 now!

http://www.aplaceformystuff.org: Tales of Combat Clutter and other Adventures

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#432621 - 09/21/10 04:52 PM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Morning Star]
chaoticbliss Offline


Registered: 09/21/10
Posts: 12
Loc: IA unted states
billm true but is that not the excuse ther using. as for LKRice is that not the topic or am i miss understanding the point you are trying get at in that case honestly nothing its a buch of people trying to vent out ther anger and use the koran as the scape goat, but i could be wrong but thats how i see it

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#432623 - 09/21/10 05:00 PM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: chaoticbliss]
LKRice Offline

CoS Priestess

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 6368
It was a jab at your poor spelling and grammar. Try using a dictionary or spell checker before posting anything further, please.
_________________________
Director
Committee for the
Promotion of Vice and
Prevention of Virtue

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#432627 - 09/21/10 05:13 PM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Morning Star]
chaoticbliss Offline


Registered: 09/21/10
Posts: 12
Loc: IA unted states
why does it harm you. what you going to do if i dont fix my spelling and grammar. what are you a english pof. sorry i suck at writing i do math like trig, calc and physics problems screw perfect writing. writing not important numbers are lol

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#432630 - 09/21/10 05:24 PM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: chaoticbliss]
LKRice Offline

CoS Priestess

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 6368
Maybe if this was a math forum, numbers would be important. However, it's a forum where communication by written word is more important. So if you want people to take you seriously and not set you on "ignore," I would recommend making a greater effort with your spelling.
_________________________
Director
Committee for the
Promotion of Vice and
Prevention of Virtue

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#432632 - 09/21/10 05:27 PM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: chaoticbliss]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11570
Loc: New England, USA
Originally Posted By: chaoticbliss
why does it harm you. what you going to do if i dont fix my spelling and grammar.

Actually I think it's good advice, because if anything it harms the writer more than the reader. It's difficult to take somebody's words seriously when the writer doesn't seem to take the time to write properly.

Quote:
sorry i suck at writing

Having a known handicap and refusing to do anything about it, let alone boasting about it, strikes me as quite unsatanic.

Quote:
i do math like trig, calc and physics problems screw perfect writing. writing not important numbers are lol

Since when is this an either/or thing? You're not a high school student, are you? That's usually where you find people duped into the false dichotomy of "I'm either a math/science person or an English/History person."

I have a Master's degree in mathematics and work as an engineer, but I realize the importance of communication. I still try my best to construct proper sentences in English. You think any mathematics or science periodicals would accept a paper with spelling mistakes left and right?
_________________________
Reverend Bill M.

http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
New hour every week. Download the mp3 now!

http://www.aplaceformystuff.org: Tales of Combat Clutter and other Adventures

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#432634 - 09/21/10 05:40 PM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Bill_M]
chaoticbliss Offline


Registered: 09/21/10
Posts: 12
Loc: IA unted states
well then why insult some who isnt as capable of writing or just dont give a crap. now if im doing a papper or a essay it might be different. but im not in class or work so why bother i have no reason to impress anyone

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#432635 - 09/21/10 05:41 PM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: chaoticbliss]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8275
A god that cannot spell or write.....

How about that! zombie
_________________________
"Consensus is the absence of leadership." Margaret Thatcher

"I'm fascinated with how primitive the human mind still is. It can be misdirected so easily." John Gaughan


"Success is uncommon. Therefore, not to be enjoyed by the common man." Cal Stoll

Top
#432636 - 09/21/10 05:44 PM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: chaoticbliss]
LKRice Offline

CoS Priestess

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 6368
Folks here are very judgemental and will interact with you accordingly. Perhaps you should read up on Lesser Magic.
_________________________
Director
Committee for the
Promotion of Vice and
Prevention of Virtue

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#432641 - 09/21/10 05:49 PM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Morning Star]
chaoticbliss Offline


Registered: 09/21/10
Posts: 12
Loc: IA unted states
just because people are hostile doesnt mean its magic it is merly a outlet for people who need help dealing with the fact ther is no GOD. ther might be magic i could be wrong but thats not magic


Edited by chaoticbliss (09/21/10 05:50 PM)

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#432644 - 09/21/10 05:55 PM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: chaoticbliss]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11570
Loc: New England, USA
Quote:
well then why insult some who isnt as capable of writing or just dont give a crap.

Those are two different situations. By your own admission, you're in the latter group. As a Satanist, I tend to dislike irresponsible solipsists. Speaking of which:

Quote:
now if im doing a papper or a essay it might be different. but im not in class or work so why bother i have no reason to impress anyone

So you admit to not making any effort to making a good impression here, then act surprised when people don't seem to take you very seriously. Brilliant! Maybe now you understand the point myself and others were trying to make. Then again, maybe not.

Originally Posted By: chaoticbliss
just because people are hostile doesnt mean its magic it is merly a outlet for people who need help dealing with the fact ther is no GOD.

Actually, Terry Jones most certainly believes in an external deity. So I don't see what the non-existence of deity has to do with his hostility.

Quote:
ther might be magic i could be wrong but thats not magic

The key word here is "lesser magic", a topic which is addressed in The Satanic Bible. You claim to have read and agree with that book, but somehow missed those pages.
_________________________
Reverend Bill M.

http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
New hour every week. Download the mp3 now!

http://www.aplaceformystuff.org: Tales of Combat Clutter and other Adventures

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#432655 - 09/21/10 06:12 PM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Bill_M]
chaoticbliss Offline


Registered: 09/21/10
Posts: 12
Loc: IA unted states
yes, i have read it but i still dont see that as magic.you know what i mean. the way i look at it if ther is magic /thers probably a god/ afterlife
thats against everything i believe

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#432692 - 09/22/10 02:32 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: chaoticbliss]
Original Sly Offline


Registered: 09/10/09
Posts: 205
Loc: New Zealand
It is glaringly obvious that you haven't done the requisite reading to be on this board. The act of reading itself is a valuable activity as, without knowing it, one will absorb the spelling, grammar, and nuance of the material.

If you had read any of the CoS canon, you'd not be mistaking the term Lesser Magic for that spiritual crap spelled with a 'K'.

Your atrocious spelling and grammar indicates you don't really read much at all, unless of course you're reading internet forums and text messages. Repositories of the English language, these are not.

There is a lil thing called Counterproductive Pride (if you've done the reading, you'll be able to fill in the blank... Counterproductive Pride is a Satanic S_N, a gold star for you if you get it correct!) which leads one to mistake constructive criticism for an insult. You should be thanking those who are critiquing you, not insulting them for what you perceive to be an attack.
_________________________
"It stands to reason that where there's sacrifice, there's someone collecting sacrificial offerings" - Ellsworth Toohey, Ayn Rand's The Fountainhead p.637

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#432695 - 09/22/10 02:59 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Morning Star]
RandomStranger Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/09/05
Posts: 2770
Loc: Here.
Honestly, I had no idea that this was even news until I read your post here 2 weeks ago. If this guy wants to burn books, in the USA he is free to do so. I don't really care what he does with his money. He made it, he can spend it.

It reminds me of just how weak some world religions are. The Christians have an uproar becasue Gays, Abortion and Harry Potter threaten their moldy old religion. The thought of two men or two women loving each other is enough to strike a mighty blow against their outdated, rickety diety. The only message I get out of this is that Islamic principles are so weak, the threat of burning mere printed words on paper is enough to cause the mighty Prophet Mohammed to swoon and teeter. If people said, "go right ahead and burn our Quran. If you think you can hurt us, you're wrong." that would send a pretty damn powerful message. Sadly, that isn't the case.

The reality here is that it creates a shit storm around the globe. There are more than just al-Qaida and Taliban on the planet; there are dozens of Islamist Extremist groups just waiting for people like Terry Jones to come along so they can have an excuse to blow themselves up. While Terry is at home in the comfort and protection of the United States getting ready to make s'more over a stack of burning books, OCONUS Americans are put in jeopardy by his actions. He doesn't see that a lot of the world generalizes his sentiment across the spectrum of all Americans. If it's big enough to be in the news, it must be a big deal, right? This dirtbag of a human is no less ignorant than the people who's holy scriptures he wants to burn burning.
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#432824 - 09/23/10 11:51 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Morning Star]
MagdaGraham Offline
CoS Priestess

Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 13369
Loc: Scotland
_________________________
We are the makers of manners. (Shakespeare)

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/clickToGive/home.faces?siteId=3

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#432830 - 09/23/10 12:53 PM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: MagdaGraham]
Skjalandir Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 92
Loc: England
What I'd love to see is a bunch of school children across the country out on the playing fields doing a mass burning of Carol Ann-Duffy poems.

You don't see enough kids rising up against the true terrors these days, even when it's right on their doorstep.
_________________________
Einstein can't be classed as witless
He claimed atoms were the littlest
When you did a bit of splittingen-ness
Frighten everybody shitless
- Ian Dury

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#432832 - 09/23/10 01:12 PM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: MagdaGraham]
HellofallHells Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 11/01/05
Posts: 3524
Quote:
"Northumbria Police said the men were not arrested for watching or distributing the video, but on suspicion of burning the Koran."


All is lost.
_________________________
Hell of All Hells

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#432835 - 09/23/10 02:01 PM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: HellofallHells]
MagdaGraham Offline
CoS Priestess

Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 13369
Loc: Scotland
That's Britain.
_________________________
We are the makers of manners. (Shakespeare)

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/clickToGive/home.faces?siteId=3

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#432848 - 09/23/10 04:47 PM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Morning Star]
Bedlam Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 06/29/01
Posts: 1658
Loc: Perfidious Albion
Quote:
So, What are YOUR thoughts on the events of this last week? Do you think it is utter stupidity? or were you hoping to line up on burn day?

Please share your thoughts...


My thoughts on the events of this last week...

I really need to get some new underpants. I don't really think my balls and willy have got bigger, but my underpants are defintitely tighter. I think they may have shrunk. It would be a nice feeling if my balls and willy have got bigger, but alas, without the aid of a tape measure I cannot be totally sure...but they do appear to be about the same size.

I have had a very stressful week, to be honest. And it is somewhat difficult to make multi-million pound decisions when all you can think about is how uncomfortable your ball bag is.

I am fortunate enough to have my own office, so have at least been able to ram my hands down there and adjust my positioning from time to time...well, I say time to time..but, coupled with my tight fitting trousers this last two days, my "mouse" hand has been rendered almost redundant, the amount of adjusting it has been doing. In fact, I am lucky there hasn't been some sort of report or police involvement.

If I don't get some new underpants soon, I will probably end up on some sort of register.
_________________________
Wine for my men, we ride at dawn...

Do I look like I carry a pencil? Jason Statham

It may be Crazy
But I'm the closest thing I have
To a voice of reason


~ Gil Scott Heron




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#432874 - 09/23/10 11:55 PM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: MagdaGraham]
HellofallHells Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 11/01/05
Posts: 3524
Oh, I know. All is lost for you, I guess. grin

But Canada's on track for this kind of shit as well.
_________________________
Hell of All Hells

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#432900 - 09/24/10 04:11 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: MagdaGraham]
DamienMocata Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/14/09
Posts: 217
Loc: Linenopolis
How English. Are they going to arrest everyone on Guy Fawkes night for burning effigies of people who protested against the government as well? smile
_________________________
Hail Satan!
Damien Mocata
Citizen of the Infernal Empire

Not every cage is made of bars.
"The Humanoid form makes an excellent concentrated protein. " - Davros
"You are a collection of probability fields. " - Me.

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#432904 - 09/24/10 04:29 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: DamienMocata]
Skjalandir Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 92
Loc: England
Who ever though St Georges day would be banned for racial hatred?
_________________________
Einstein can't be classed as witless
He claimed atoms were the littlest
When you did a bit of splittingen-ness
Frighten everybody shitless
- Ian Dury

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#432905 - 09/24/10 04:39 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Skjalandir]
DamienMocata Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/14/09
Posts: 217
Loc: Linenopolis
A few people. Probably the ones who wanted it banned for whatever stupid reason.
_________________________
Hail Satan!
Damien Mocata
Citizen of the Infernal Empire

Not every cage is made of bars.
"The Humanoid form makes an excellent concentrated protein. " - Davros
"You are a collection of probability fields. " - Me.

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#432936 - 09/24/10 10:10 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Original Sly]
XUL Offline


Registered: 12/12/09
Posts: 238
Loc: Oslo, Norway
Originally Posted By: Original Sly
the CoS canon


Sorry about pissing myself laughing at this.

FFS, think about it. A CoS canon? Well, I suppose you could say that Dr. La Vey's writings are somewhat "canonical" but in the real world this isn't about what you write, or think, or even secretly submit to in your most hidden heart: This is about the vitality of nature growing and unfolding as it must. There always were and there always will be "Satanists" in this world, no matter by which name.
_________________________
The Maxistic Paradigm

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#432959 - 09/24/10 06:13 PM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: XUL]
Original Sly Offline


Registered: 09/10/09
Posts: 205
Loc: New Zealand
There are two points to be addressed in your post, XUL.

Firstly, one might want to look into what the definition, or definitions, of a word is, or are, before passing judgement on the use of that word in any particular context.

Canon can mean any officially recognized set of sacred books. Other religions have canonical texts, so why can't Satanism? Sure, they're not sacred in the spiritual sense, but I find Dr. LaVey's works of such great importance as to be sacred to me. I'm sure others feel the same way.

Canon can also mean any comprehensive list of books within a field. I would think that the five books by Dr. LaVey, the two by Magistra Barton, and Magus Gilmore's book are a comprehensive, and therefore canonical, list of books on Satanism.

Canon can also mean a standard or criterion. Dr. LaVey's books would be the standard or criterion against which all other books on Satanism are measured.

Canon can mean the body of rules, principles, or standards accepted as axiomatic and universally binding in a field of study or art. The Rules of the Earth, Satanic Sins, and Satanic Statements, being the principles of Satanism, are all contained within the canonical texts.

I could, and would, go on like this for some time, but I think the point has been sufficiently made to show that there are works that can be considered canonical to Satanism.

Secondly, you say,

Quote:
There always were and there always will be "Satanists" in this world, no matter by which name.


It was Dr. LaVey who codified Satanism. Before him, there were Satanists by nature, but none by name. I don't understand what you are meaning to say here, it's almost as if you're saying Satanism would have been what it is if Dr. LaVey had never uttered the word "Satanism". That's not true at all. We wouldn't be in the place we are, with the valuable literature we have, if Dr. LaVey hadn't done what he did. Without the canonical literature of Satanism, this religion wouldn't be what it is today.

It's a little hard addressing this second point because what you wrote wasn't sufficiently explained and I'm not sure I fully understand what you were getting at.
_________________________
"It stands to reason that where there's sacrifice, there's someone collecting sacrificial offerings" - Ellsworth Toohey, Ayn Rand's The Fountainhead p.637

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#432992 - 09/25/10 12:47 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Phineas]
gypsy Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/04/01
Posts: 4749
Loc: Here
That was a great essay. I was checking the news section on the CoS site every day after the story about the mosque broke.

Just for shits and giggles:
"Footbaths"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hYd3i8Q07M
_________________________
"All the truth in the world adds up to one big lie."

"Eternal nothingness is fine if you happen to be dressed for it."


Church of Satan

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#433088 - 09/26/10 01:23 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Morning Star]
Insurgent Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/08/01
Posts: 2323
I think we should burn, destroy and desecrate as many Korans as are necessary to show that Americans aren't the pussified bend-over-backwards for foreign horde type people that much of Europe has become in the face of extremism and PC group-think.

I personally don't think that reading the Koran is a better approach. It's all the same god damned horse-shit and I don't need yet another primer in horse-shit to know it when I smell it.

Burn it, trash it, take it to the car wash.

That's my personal opinion on the destruction of Korans.

However, my opinion on the latest debacle is that it is being used to make anti-Muslim sentiment look like the idea of pea-brained morons in the south instead of a rational reaction to true villains of progress. It's working and working very well.

Because America is not at war with Islam.

"America" wants them to want what an Eskimo wants what a Mexican wants.

Saying more would be too political for upstairs.
_________________________
My site: www.josiegallows.com

"My dear Insurgent you're an extremist, intolerant and you have prejudices. That's all."

"I am a fucking Satanist and desire in all of my being to be the Queen of the World if at all possible...."

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#433111 - 09/26/10 08:44 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Original Sly]
XUL Offline


Registered: 12/12/09
Posts: 238
Loc: Oslo, Norway
Originally Posted By: Original Sly
We wouldn't be in the place we are, with the valuable literature we have, if Dr. LaVey hadn't done what he did.


Although I tend to think this is a correct assertion, it is of course impossible to say what might have happened unless what actually happened actually happened. I believe Uncle Anton said something like if he hadn't codified it somebody else (and very likely less qualified) would have, because it was something "in the times" that was practically begging to be rised into cognitive prominence. We may or may not speculate about the history of "enlightenment" and how this was at the end of the day based in a neoplatonic hermeticism and how this all initiated an irreversible process of "Satanism"... but it is all speculation.

What happened, happened. Those who did what they did, did what they did. Nobody and nothing can ever deprive Uncle Anton of his accomplishments, nor the CoS of its monolithic position within contemporary "Satanism" (now that it's got a name) but the history leading up to this point is up for grabs. The "competition" is just silly, however. There is no other organisation which represents Satanism or Satanists than the CoS. The others are... well, others. It's something else. They have a different agenda.
_________________________
The Maxistic Paradigm

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#433855 - 10/01/10 09:52 PM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Bedlam]
Bedlam Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 06/29/01
Posts: 1658
Loc: Perfidious Albion
Aaaah.

Hup

Yesss

I got some new underpants.

Suddenly I can see the world with clarity again.

In actual fact..much better than just underpants, my wife bought me some "lounge trousers". They are light and airy and have a great big crotch area wherein I can let my man-bits float about freely. Granted, I don't reckon I will be pullin' no teenage girls in them, they are not a good look...but christ on a bike, they are comfy. My only complaint is that there ain't no pockets. I will be bringin' this up with the manufacturers so they can better their already excellent product and no doubt, get me some free pairs of the new model.

I fear, in my scrumpled up ball-bag conumdrum, I have lost sight of the original question...

Having just re-read it, I feel my testicular comfort is slightly more important.

It's a good job I ain't me Nan, or I'd be describing me bowel movements to you. (If it really stinks, then you've had summat good to eat)
_________________________
Wine for my men, we ride at dawn...

Do I look like I carry a pencil? Jason Statham

It may be Crazy
But I'm the closest thing I have
To a voice of reason


~ Gil Scott Heron




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#435202 - 10/15/10 11:30 PM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Morning Star]
SINClair Offline


Registered: 10/06/08
Posts: 320
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: Morning Star
Hello Everyone.

I am just curious as to what you all thought about the recent attempt by Terry Jones in the U.S. to organise a burn the Koran day?

In Australia at the moment there is alot of controversy over a man who went live online, rolled up a koran and a bible page and proceeded to smoke a joint with it, suggesting "it's a book, who gives a shit".

So, What are YOUR thoughts on the events of this last week? Do you think it is utter stupidity? or were you hoping to line up on burn day?

Please share your thoughts...

The Hampster


Typing from Eurabia, I think EVERYTHING counts! I also support those willing to start having pigs for pets , in effort to expel Muslims away.

The Koran is a terrible threat to freedom.
_________________________
"Wer Nichts Wagt, Kann Nichts Verlieren"

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#435602 - 10/20/10 03:02 AM Re: Koran Book Burning [Re: Morning Star]
Pablovilla Offline



Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 267
Loc: Victorville, California
Beside burning there are other things that Muslims find offensive.

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Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result - Ben Franklin

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