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#432117 - 09/15/10 02:44 PM Satanism Light?
XUL Offline


Registered: 12/12/09
Posts: 238
Loc: Oslo, Norway
I stumbled across this website recently - and had quite an amusing field day reading their stuff:

Church of Reality ("If it's real we believe in it")

It strikes me as an interesting position to adapt: "Reality" is in and of itself a concept which necessitates a certain degree of faith (strictly speaking) insofar that it's terribly impractical to corroborate and verify all known facts of science and research for yourself. There are also some very pertinent questions that can be rised about our faculty for "knowledge" in and of itself.

Anyway, after reading a bit of it, it struck me as being "Satanism Light" in a way that I haven't really seen before. I'd personally wish them good luck - and there's some really funny shit here and there which makes it a worthwhile site to have a look at.
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#432123 - 09/15/10 03:58 PM Re: Satanism Light? [Re: XUL]
LordofDarkness Offline
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Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 757
Loc: Tennessee, U.S.
If I'm not mistaken, this "Church of Reality" seems to have a touch of humanism.

What do you mean by "Satanism Light"? If you're refering to flavor levels like different brands of beer, then we are straight up Budweiser! wink

Full flavor baby! Lol. The Few... The Proud... The Church of Satan! Hoorah!

Now back to being serious, I'm not sure if it's ok to post about other churches here. Don't quote me on it though. I am entirely unsure.





_________________________

"Any group or collective, large or small, is only a number of individuals. A group can have no rights other than the rights of its individual members." - Ayn Rand

"Laws are there for a reason. You may not agree with them but you gotta obey them. Nobody wants to be in court." - Sonic the Hedgehog

"Satanism is not a white light religion; it is a religion of the flesh, the mundane, the carnal - all of which are ruled by Satan, the personification of the Left Hand Path." - Magus LaVey

"Test Everything, Believe Nothing." -

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#432148 - 09/15/10 08:45 PM Re: Satanism Light? [Re: XUL]
Lust Offline


Registered: 11/02/05
Posts: 4214
Satanism is a selfish religion. This is one reason why I resonated with The Satanic Bible when first reading. The group dynamic of what the posted site is referring to does not appeal to me at all. Nor anything that betters someone or something else other than me or mine.

"We try to understand the understanding of understanding."

I almost like that.

I always view these sorts as the ones too afraid to take on the Devil's name. Still, take what pleases and use to your own advantage.
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�Love is one of the most intense feelings felt by man; another is hate. Forcing yourself to feel indiscriminate love is very unnatural. If you try to love everyone you only lessen your feelings for those who deserve your love. Repressed hatred can lead to many physical and emotional aliments. By learning to release your hatred towards those who deserve it, you cleanse yourself of these malignant emotions and need not take your pent-up hatred out on your loved ones.�
Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible

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#432161 - 09/16/10 12:55 AM Re: Satanism Light? [Re: Lust]
LordofDarkness Offline
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Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 757
Loc: Tennessee, U.S.
Yes, they're reinventing the wheel and just calling it another name. Perhaps to offer an old present in a new package for profit.

I don't find it very surprising.
_________________________

"Any group or collective, large or small, is only a number of individuals. A group can have no rights other than the rights of its individual members." - Ayn Rand

"Laws are there for a reason. You may not agree with them but you gotta obey them. Nobody wants to be in court." - Sonic the Hedgehog

"Satanism is not a white light religion; it is a religion of the flesh, the mundane, the carnal - all of which are ruled by Satan, the personification of the Left Hand Path." - Magus LaVey

"Test Everything, Believe Nothing." -

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#432171 - 09/16/10 03:29 AM Re: Satanism Light? [Re: Lust]
XUL Offline


Registered: 12/12/09
Posts: 238
Loc: Oslo, Norway
Originally Posted By: Tier Instinct
Satanism is a selfish religion.


I tend to think more of it as controlled and conscious selfishness - since I consider people who are in denial of their own selfish motives to be deluded. Let's face it: Even the most [allegedly] altruistic individual will turn out to be selfish in the final analysis, as they are ultimately doing what is their will, perhaps due to some complicated psychological complex which revolves around self-denial, or even self-loathing. Even more still find their best chances of survival in group-thinking. (Not unlike the behaviour of herbivorous animals, where they seek safety in numbers.)

However that may be, I find myself supporting all initiatives that, as in the case of the Church of Reality, support the active advocating of reality as the fundamental principle of existence that we should all relate the most to during our short life in this world. If these guys can bring some more people out of the organised insanity that is the faith-based religions and motivate them to deal with life such as it actually is, I think it a good thing.

The concept of "Satanism Light" is of course a joke which came into my head since I couldn't help but noticing the rather obvious similarities in some basic philosophical ideas. I personally find CoR's "realism" to be more constructive than open-ended "atheism" which (as Sam Harris keeps pointing at) is a bit of a problematic position to adapt, since there really wouldn't be any "atheism" unless there were "theism" to begin with. It is an ontologically absurd position to defend: Being against XYZ is to acknowledge XYZ's existence - and therefore, in a sense, it is feeding the troll.
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#432178 - 09/16/10 05:39 AM Re: Satanism Light? [Re: XUL]
Midnight Offline
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Registered: 11/27/09
Posts: 111
Loc: Victoria, Australia
I don't know if 'amusing' is what l would describe reading this website as. I'm wondering if he was still smoking that joint as he typed up his website.

This is his opening sentence for 'How it all began'.

The Church of Reality began with an idea I had in the evening of November 7th 1998. I was sitting at home Smoking a Joint, thinking about all the problems that religions cause in the world, and the idea just hit me - why not have a religion based on believing in everything that's real?

Sorry XUL but l think the reason why this guy has a web page called The Principle of Bullshit is because he has a serious case of the diarrhoea kind!

Hail Satan!
Midnight...which is a real word therefore it must be real but only in the real reality of the real world... witch
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A man who dares to waste one hour of time has not discovered the value of life. - Charles Darwin

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#432180 - 09/16/10 07:29 AM Re: Satanism Light? [Re: Midnight]
thorn9 Offline


Registered: 03/13/10
Posts: 119
I can respect what they are doing. Just like that "Freedom From Religion Group". And I know I am not alone on that one as many Church of Satan members have said that they help support them each month.

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#432185 - 09/16/10 09:38 AM Re: Satanism Light? [Re: thorn9]
Midnight Offline
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Registered: 11/27/09
Posts: 111
Loc: Victoria, Australia
thorn9, I also support 'freedom from religion' anywhere in the world, or to me it is a actually the 'freedom to choose'.

However, the website which started this topic reminds me of an MS Excel formula error message which is called a 'circular reference', the formula doesn't work as the cell references go round in circles! The FIRST ONE or FOUNDER of this religion literally craps on and on and on about everything. In relation to separation of church and state he begins by saying:

The Church of Reality is a religion, not a political organization. As a religion we do not endorse candidates or take any partisan political positions. We are not involved in party politics. We strongly believe in the separation of church and state and that separation applies to us as well, even though we believe as strongly as every other religion does that we are right. The scope of the Church of Reality as an institution is to focus on the religion of reality.

And later on says:

Our world view is based on Positive Evolution. We see the future in terms of society growing and becoming better. We are committed to making tomorrow better than today, and to helping other religions embrace the concepts of reality so that their faiths evolve in a positive direction. If we don't win then they will and the world will end in destruction, but there is no Jesus and no Rapture and all that they will accomplish is that the cockroaches will become the dominant life form on this planet. We, as Realists, want to make sure that humans stay in control. That's our political agenda. We can not allow the Extinctionists to prevail.

XUL, maybe l was wrong there is humour on this website!

I see this guy as wanting everyone to see his HUGE Good Guy Badge, he wants to sound like he's a breath of fresh air and people will find his website and be so overwhelmed by his realism that they will send lots of donations and buy lots of things from his Gift Shop. Yes, he even has a Gift Shop!


...and for a final laugh, can you imagine how realistic the following is. This is found under the War and Peace section.

It may also be advantageous for the Realist soldier to inform his commanding officer of his religious affiliation and to explain to the military unit that he has a religious duty to Reality as it really is and that he is required to think for himself and that thinking for himself is as much of a religious right as others have to pray to invisible deities. The Realist should explain that this is a good thing and if the Military is wise they will welcome realistic thinkers because being realistic helps achieve the goals of the military

I have to agree with Tier Instinct, there really is nothing on this website that appeals to me, it does makes me totally agree with Anton LaVey when he said that stupidity should be painful! coopdevil

Hail Satan!
Midnight. jack
_________________________
A man who dares to waste one hour of time has not discovered the value of life. - Charles Darwin

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#432201 - 09/16/10 11:30 AM Re: Satanism Light? [Re: XUL]
John Prophet Offline

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Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 993
Loc: My suburban lair
Although there are some obvious similarities between this and Satanism (to the point that the Im a little suspicious of where they may have gotten some of those ideas), all of the white light, egalitarian, good guy rhetoric is a real turn off in my opinion.


The Church of Reality accepts as one of our axioms that all people have intrinsic value and that we Respect the intrinsic value of ourselves and others. This is the basis for our view that we are equal citizens of one planet, that we have the intrinsic right to Self Ownership. That we consider human rights to be sacred, that all war even when necessary is fundamentally wrong. We express our love of humanity through our commitment to Positive Evolution to ensure that tomorrow is better than today. We are Realists because people are important to us.

The Church of Reality is not an "us vs. them" religion. We are a religion that builds bridges. We are here to help everyone else evolve in a positive direction by making reality part of the discussion. We also look for the opportunity to learn things from others to see if they have good ideas that we can adapt to improve ourselves. Some cult based religions separate themselves from other drawing lines to separate us from them. We are the opposite. We try to tear down the lines, find common ground, and view all people as us.

We establish a logical reason for being generous and selfless and caring about the well being of others in the context of reality, thus refuting the idea that Atheists are selfish. Humanity's success is based on sharing resources and taking care of each other and forming strong and healthy communities.

The Church of Reality realizes that people are intrinsically good and that the Philosophy of the Open Hand is the natural character of the human race. Our world view is that people are intrinsically good people and that although there are people who do bad things that is the exception rather than the rule.

Although we recognize that sometimes war might be necessary we think that it is never something to be proud of. War always represents a failure of peace and must never be glorified. We do not honor veterans merely for being in a war because if you glorify unjust wars then you encourage others to fight in unjust wars.


Just what reality have these guys been living in? zombie
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#432203 - 09/16/10 11:52 AM Re: Satanism Light? [Re: XUL]
Shade Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/08/06
Posts: 6135
Loc: A Trailer Park
Oh, I get it. Satanism Lite. I thought you were posting about a light-light. As in bulb. Night light, spot light, black light, star light, street light, car light, small light, big light, thin light, fat light, some kinda light like that... grin



"Witch Lights"

44 days! jack witch jack
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#432328 - 09/17/10 12:42 PM Re: Satanism Light? [Re: Shade]
XUL Offline


Registered: 12/12/09
Posts: 238
Loc: Oslo, Norway
Originally Posted By: Shade

44 days!


Hmmm... you appear to be right. I offer a motivational song for the occasion:

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#432499 - 09/20/10 01:42 PM Re: Satanism Light? [Re: Midnight]
I'mPerfecting Offline


Registered: 02/03/08
Posts: 221
Loc: Florida

Originally Posted By: Midnight
It may also be advantageous for the Realist soldier to inform his commanding officer of his religious affiliation and to explain to the military unit that he has a religious duty to Reality as it really is and that he is required to think for himself and that thinking for himself is as much of a religious right as others have to pray to invisible deities. The Realist should explain that this is a good thing and if the Military is wise they will welcome realistic thinkers because being realistic helps achieve the goals of the military

I have to agree with Tier Instinct, there really is nothing on this website that appeals to me, it does makes me totally agree with Anton LaVey when he said that stupidity should be painful!


Really, I mean it really for real...This joker is serious...
Guess any bozo with a computer these days can grandstand on any stupid movement they like.

In the three quotes you cited there where numerous contradiction and hypocritical statements, like not having a political view to turn around and claim you have one. *sshheeesshh

This moron with a key board is not only converting others to act stupidly on his behalf but he's trying to steal the word "Realist", Damn it!

I consider myself a realist. I like saying it better than atheist but I am a Satanist not some shmuck who wouldn't understand logic if it bit him in the ass. Thank reason people don't keep up with the internet religion of the week, or I might just have to start a dictionary of terms to avoid associations with whack job religions on the internet.

I can't believe that these days people are still so apropos to jump all over any word ending in "-ist" or "-ism" to try and make the next big meme out of it. The worst part about it is that there are actual people who buy into this crap.

It sounds like a good idea...NO, it sounds like hogwash being echoed from the mouth of a drug addled mind. Hippy grandstanding never accomplished anything except a whole lot of drug use, and we're still trying to recover from the damage to society it did from the 60's to the present day.

This guy sounds like someone who tried and failed to be a Satanist so they took the part about being your own god and ran amuck with it, like Luciferianism. Worse than wannabes these people are can-not-bes who think that anyone can start a "Real religion" making it up as they go along, because they can do whatever they want and not have to care about what anyone else thinks, With them or against them. They are just copycats taking the parts they like from any source they want, usually LaVey because they just weren't born smart enough to be Satanist, and mixing it liberally with whatever ideas on the subject they might have. Please note thinking before speaking is not a requirement to start your own internet religion. grin

Humanism = is a religion for atheist who basically wanted to edit out all the cold harsh facts from the nature of reality that Satanism embraces. They are tolerant of others and accepting of all religions and their beliefs, so they come across as good guys. This isn't really a religion it was an atheistic movement to promote tolerance for science within the religious world. The olive branch so to speak, being the bigger person and all, atheists who will accept you if you accept them. The unicorn in wonderland "I'll believe in you if you believe in me." This is more "Satanism Lite" to me at least they have an effective purpose and not a drug addled cause.

Whereas this guy is trying to make a religion of science, by calling it Realism = I don't get it, believing in reality? I thought the point of reality was that there is no belief required "It Is", no if's ands, or but's about it.
Why take the word realism, couldn't you just call it
Is-Ism = and say a religion for that which is. It just is.
At least that's funny, and doesnt infringe no my word choice options. You know someone should tell this guy I was kidding about giving science a religion of its own.

Oh well, the world is full of stupid people, and it truly is far more painful then we get to see. Really, that's the Realism of it. I don't want stupidity to be painful I Know it is. It's just not as instant as I would like.

Hail Satan
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"...Porcelain in a paper cup world."
~Almost Alice~

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#432548 - 09/21/10 01:22 AM Re: Satanism Light? [Re: I'mPerfecting]
Midnight Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/27/09
Posts: 111
Loc: Victoria, Australia
I'm Perfecting...that was perfectly said!

I find the scariest thing about his website is that l think he IS serious.

The more l read the site the more l shook my head in disbelief that someone could literally "crap on" the way he is. I had to stop reading before my head popped off and rolled away!!!

In a strange round about way things like TV and the internet actually promotes 'herd conformity'. The average person seems to believe what they see on TV and read in newspapers, magazines and the Internet, but their belief is so complete and accepting it's bizarre. I will never understand people who instantly believe what they hear and see on TV and the Internet as (pardon the pun) GOSPEL!

I know it can make for good entertainment but l dread to think of the millions who may stumble over a site like this Church of Reality and believe what he types. Maybe they will be so confused by his contradictions that they will worship him, if he sounds like he knows what he is talking about then he must know what he is talking about! Besides, he's on the Internet so he must be real, there's a picture of him...

Personally, while sites like this irritate me for a moment l move on very quickly, like many Satanists l know we have better things to do and more entertaining things to look at.

Thanks for the chat, l always love reading your responses, you have a lot of depth.

Hail Satan!
Midnight.
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A man who dares to waste one hour of time has not discovered the value of life. - Charles Darwin

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#432616 - 09/21/10 04:43 PM Re: Satanism Light? [Re: I'mPerfecting]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11554
Loc: New England, USA
Originally Posted By: I'mPerfecting
This guy sounds like someone who tried and failed to be a Satanist so they took the part about being your own god and ran amuck with it,

Sounds about right to me.

Quote:
Humanism = is a religion for atheist who basically wanted to edit out all the cold harsh facts from the nature of reality that Satanism embraces.

I see it as a term often taken up by people who don't buy the metaphysical claims of Christianity, yet still want to embrace its self-defeating philosophies. But yeah, same difference there I suppose.
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#432939 - 09/24/10 10:37 AM Re: Satanism Light? [Re: Midnight]
XUL Offline


Registered: 12/12/09
Posts: 238
Loc: Oslo, Norway
Originally Posted By: Midnight
I find the scariest thing about his website is that l think he IS serious.


Uh...? Hello? Scary?

If there's anything scary about this website you need to get out more. What I said - and what I'll keep on saying - is that any initiative which questions the authority of "one big central cosmic answer for it all" is valuable. Not because they are "right" but because they are less wrong.

Don't expect too much from civilians.
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#432946 - 09/24/10 01:16 PM Re: Satanism Light? [Re: XUL]
John Prophet Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 993
Loc: My suburban lair
Originally Posted By: XUL
What I said - and what I'll keep on saying - is that any initiative which questions the authority of "one big central cosmic answer for it all" is valuable. Not because they are "right" but because they are less wrong.


Thats only true if you think that the belief in god is more of a problem than any of the undesirable things that these guys are doing.

Personally, I view the belief in some higher power and the type of egalitarian, we should all put aside our differences and hold hands in universal acceptance lack of standards that these guys seem to be cultivating, to be equally repulsive. The way that I see it, these guys just represent one undesirable idea, instead of another.
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#432947 - 09/24/10 01:49 PM Re: Satanism Light? [Re: John Prophet]
Machismo Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/05/10
Posts: 1132
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: John Prophet quoting some guy's web site
"...thus refuting the idea that Atheists are selfish."


Altruistic atheists make me scatch my head, partly out of bewilderment, and partly because they make my skin crawl. I call them The Lambs of Darwin. They take Jesus off the Cross but leave the Cross standing, and nail Lucy to it.
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#432949 - 09/24/10 02:19 PM Re: Satanism Light? [Re: Machismo]
John Prophet Offline

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Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 993
Loc: My suburban lair
Originally Posted By: Machismo
The Lambs of Darwin. They take Jesus off the Cross but leave the Cross standing, and nail Lucy to it.

Speaking of sig worthy quotes grin
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#432952 - 09/24/10 03:13 PM Re: Satanism Light? [Re: John Prophet]
XUL Offline


Registered: 12/12/09
Posts: 238
Loc: Oslo, Norway
Originally Posted By: John Prophet
any of the undesirable things that these guys are doing


It might be an interesting chicken and egg discussion whether one follows from the other, but in my opinion at least a big part of the problem lies in a metaphysical acceptance of the principle that there exists an ultimate authority outside of yourself. In a grey fog of psycho-political battle over this issue, I think it a relative improvement if this magical authority is thought to be "reality" rather than "God".
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#432956 - 09/24/10 04:44 PM Re: Satanism Light? [Re: XUL]
John Prophet Offline

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Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 993
Loc: My suburban lair
Originally Posted By: XUL
In a grey fog of psycho-political battle over this issue, I think it a relative improvement if this magical authority is thought to be "reality" rather than "God".

I do understand what youre saying and I agree, so long as what were talking about is actually reality. Earlier in this thread I asked Just what reality have these guys been living in? . Aside from being humorous, I was also trying to point out the fact that a religion based on reality is only valid if it is, well, realistic. If its not, then the reality that is being discussed is nothing more than a fantasy, much like the fictions of spiritual religions. And in a worst case scenario, that fictional version of reality can also be manipulated in a similar way as the word of God often is.

Some of their goals, attitudes and values dont seem particularly realistic to me and could be interpreted as merely being a secular version of the same basic types of values that we see in various spiritual religions. Part of the problem really comes down to what Machismo was expressing above.

What I should explain, is that in some ways, spiritual religious values and attitudes that are repackaged in secular or atheist dressing have their own set of potential problems for the simple reason that they are not blatantly religious. Basically, it makes them sneakier and they can become an easier sell for some people and this can make it easier for these things to become public policy. You could argue that this has already been happening, to a certain extent. I see something potentially problematic in being too complacent about this sort of thing.

It has become apparent that taking God out of the equation, doesnt really cause people to dump these other types of cultural and behavioral indoctrination which had previously been associated with spiritual religion. This is why I feel its equally important to condemn those types of attitudes and values themselves.

Of course, I do understand that this could be seen as more of a slow progression toward something even better and taking god out first, might be a step in the right direction. But I do think that theres a good chance that he might get replaced with something more abstract, but equally repressive and detrimental. After all, he is a fictional creation and designed to fill some very irrational needs that many people have. I assume that hes more easily replaceable than the human psychological tendencies which created him.
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#432999 - 09/25/10 01:16 AM Re: Satanism Light? [Re: XUL]
Midnight Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/27/09
Posts: 111
Loc: Victoria, Australia
I also find it scary that a satanist can be so taken by what a weed head on the Internet wrote. There is nothing 'real' about what the Church of Reality states in their website.

Originally Posted By: XUL
any initiative

no matter how stupid or ridiculous?

Originally Posted By: XUL
which questions the authority

sorry, whose authority are you talking about?

Originally Posted By: XUL
of "one big central cosmic answer for it all" is valuable

not in my view.

Anton LaVey wrote in TSB:
In recent years there has been an attempt to humanize the spiritual concept of Christianity.
Anton LaVey wrote about it in the 60's and it is still happening today and what a classic example the Church of Reality is.

Originally Posted By: XUL
I think it a relative improvement if this magical authority is thought to be "reality" rather than "God".

Does it make any difference what it is called if it is still thought about in the same way? If you spent a bit more time studying and reading maybe you would have noticed how 'unreal' the Church of Reality actually is. Or maybe you have and you can further explain what l still don't understand:
The Church of Reality is a religion based on the practice of Realism, which means believing in everything that is real. confused
Actually don't bother l don't need to know anything else about the CoR!

Originally Posted By: XUL
If there's anything scary about this website you need to get out more.

I would like to refer you to Peter H Gilmores opening words in his essay 'A Primer For Fledgling Misanthropologists'
Satanists are Pragmatists, who do their best to see the world around them in as unclouded a manner as is possible; we call that "undefiled wisdom". Then we use this understanding to make the best from life for ourselves as well as those whom we cherish. Being filled with disgust at the spectacle of the milling hordes that cover our lovely globe and soil it with their presence, we try to minimize our contact with those gullible denizens whom we call "the herd".

I am a Satanist, l worship the God within me and l get out as often as l want to! witch

A lot more could be said about the CoR but I'm Perfecting, John Prophet and Machismo have made some excellent comments.

Hail Satan!
Midnight
_________________________
A man who dares to waste one hour of time has not discovered the value of life. - Charles Darwin

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#433005 - 09/25/10 01:41 AM Re: Satanism Light? [Re: XUL]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
Quote:
We are Realists practicing Realism
Winning Souls for Darwin!


Sounds like the same proselytization that Evangelical Christians spew out. vomit

Quote:

The IRS has approved the 501(C)3 tax exempt status of the Church of Reality.


2. Strict taxation of all churchesIf churches were taxed for all their income and property, theyd crumble overnight of their own obsolescence, and the National Debt would be wiped out as quickly. The productive, the creative, the resourceful should be subsidized. So long as the useless and incompetent are getting paid, they should be heavily taxed. PENTAGONAL REVISIONISM A FIVE POINT PROGRAM. This is one key reason of the many that this "church of reality" is shit! Because The Church of Satan has the balls to stand upon a foundation in complete opposition of all the other religions. The Church of Reality sounds too much like Christianity to me.
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#433016 - 09/25/10 05:56 AM Re: Satanism Light? [Re: XUL]
Machismo Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/05/10
Posts: 1132
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: XUL
I think it a relative improvement if this magical authority is thought to be "reality" rather than "God".


I can't join you in that. But at least your thread prompted my new sig! jack

Here's a pic I like and which encapsulates my reaction to the Church of Reality - to it, not to you, as I know full well you don't personally subscribe to the perspective you offered for consideration, but are merely presenting it as a possible halfway house for disaffected theists, to whom I, by contrast, would offer this pic and its message.


Attachments
Satan 18.jpg


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