Over the years I've talked to many people from many backgrounds and different walks of life. Some of these people I've loved, some I quickly said goodbye to, and still others who made me ashamed to be part of the same species.

But no matter what, there is always one thing that everyone seems to have in common: They hate being labeled.

It doesn't matter who they are or what they do, they just can't stand being labeled. They act like by accepting a label, they're selling themselves into slavery.

The only time I can think this to actually be the truth is when they themselves pick out their own label and live up to their perception of it, no matter how inconvenient.

What I'm talking about is the that labels other people give them, such as jock, or nerd or, god forbid, 'normal'.

Do any of You have this same distaste for being labeled?

There was a time when I dropped all labels off of myself and decided I would just be me. However, nowadays this is still true but now I let people label me whatever they see fit and not detest to their image of myself. If they view me as goth, morbid, misanthropic, suicidal, or whatever, objectively all that matters is how I view myself. On a side note concerning Lesser Magic or manipulation, by living up to their label of how they view me, I can gain much from the situation if I desire.

Sometimes you can use these labels to your advantage from a Lesser Magic perspective.

"If the shoe fits, wear it." I have no problem with certain kinds of labels. I call myself a Satanist. I call myself a liberal. I call myself a male. I make of these labels what I want; they're devices for me to use to express myself, not constraints. Sometimes it's a matter of just being honest about your own situation; I won't pretend I'm something I'm not, and I won't pretend I'm NOT something I basically am. But it's also a matter of using abstract ideas to focus my interests and to express myself.

It really does not bother me. Call me whatever you want...just don't call me late for dinner.

I figure, if you're not willing to label yourself in some areas, people will be all too willing to do the job for you. (Of course, this can be amusing at times--I get a big kick out of having people try to guess either my political leanings of religious affiliation.)

I also agree with Reprobate that if the shoe fits, you might as well wear it, and wear it with honor and with pride.

Talking of labels, and whether Satanists should be bothered to defend labels that they put upon themselves to others, even fellow Satanists...

How would you define your use of the word "liberal" in this instance?

And "don't label me!". The battle cry of the weak and hypocritical. All of us judge and label others and that's human nature. Show me someone who doesn't and I'll show you a liar.

I'm always happy to explain my views to anyone who's genuinely interested. To answer your question, I can put it no better than John Stuart Mill does in his famous essay "On liberty", but suffice it here to say:

Liberalism is a political philosophy which maintains that the proper sphere of government is to protect the individual's freedom to pursue his own conception of the good. Liberalism means there's a presumption against controlling people's actions; but the presumption can be defeated when the action in question demonstrably interferes with or tramples upon other individuals' respective pursuits of their own conceptions of the good. In that case, the state can hold the individual accountable for his actions. The individual also gets to have some say on the matter of who is to decide whether his actions interfere with the liberty of others.

Historically, liberals endorse democratic government, professional and streamlined civil service, and generally free market economic policies, with judicious interventions to promote legitimate state interests (eg. public health). More generally, liberals promote awareness of how the actions of individuals can impinge upon the sphere of others' liberty in ways that aren't always obvious (the privileges men have that women don't, for example, or the privileges whites have that people of color don't, etc.). Policy criticism always focuses on the issue of whether individuals have reasonable opportunities to make their own choices and chart their own path through life.

Mill's is the classical and definitive statement of liberalism. There were important precursors who anticipated many of his ideas, and there were later developments that are more or less faithful to his statement. But if you ask what I, personally, mean by liberalism, I appeal to Mill.

When I was a teenager, I didn't really like being labeled, but now I really don't mind at all. One label that has been bestowed upon me is the label crazy person (in a positive funny way, not in the straight jacket variety), by my friends and colleagues, because I always make weird jokes and remarks according to them. All I can say when they say I'm crazy, is that I'm darn proud of it too!

There isn't anything wrong with labels, as long as I get the right label. It would be weird if someone labeled me a slut when the last time I slept with someone was uhm.. two years ago?

Edit: Come to think of it, being called a slut could actually be a compliment because people would think I am very sexually active

There were ups and downs. All the downs came from ignorance. The first label ever applied to me was "Nerd". As I was raised to respect intelligence above all, it was complimentary. The second label, more forcefully applied, was "Freak". I didn't understand this one at first and there weren't as many perks. If you get labeled a nerd, people know you're smart and socially inept, which were both good things to me given the social field of 5th grade. Freaks are generally made fun of and picked on, and I was too young to know what to do with that.

Both labels have followed me to this day, but that's by choice. I've finally arrived in a world where the nerd is a valued and well paid (See Social Network for details) and I stick to a far superior social spectrum than that I was first labeled in. My friends are those who value intelligence and mock the common social realm because they see it for the animal origins it never truly outgrew.

Freak again, is different. In college it was a nasty label I wanted to get rid of at great cost, yet couldn't. Freaks don't get laid. Or so I thought. I knew most aspects of Satanism by heart without ever having been taught them, but the few I did have to learn from the source were real whoppers. Namely, alien (What kids call Freak) and elite are not mutually exclusive, quite the opposite. Freak can have many connotations. It can mean some dismal monster that smells terrible and hates everything, to be hated by everything. If one is to hear their label and take it at face value, they might start to act like they're expected. Being labeled a freak can turn a weak mind into the worst sort of freak.

The Satanic mind generally indulges a different option- Use the label. Twist it. Own it and once you do, you can throw it away in favor of any label you'd prefer to wear (Because have no illusions, you always wear a label, you always play the game no matter how hard you try to quit). But to a magician skilled in lesser magic, each label however attained is a new toy.

They call you a freak and the game begins. Step 1 is to figure out exactly what that means. Why do they call you that? Is it because you're ugly? Talk strangely about strange things? Dress dark? Have a third arm growing out of your ear? Once you know you move on to step 2- Use it or lose it. The balance factor is killer here, you aren't going to lose the freak label as long as you have that 3rd arm. So if you want the label, learn to juggle with the extra arm, if you don't, find a surgeon. Study how people talk and mimic for normality, or have more fun and make every obscure comment you see fit to encourage the label. Once you have the label you want, step 3- Use it.

Being called a Freak was the bane of my youthful life. If only I'd know then that freaks and nerds can get laid, can get rich, can get popular, and most importantly, can cease to be freaks and be anything they like at will. They just do it all with the freaky crowd instead of the pop-crowd it naturally repels. It's like a corpse flower: It stinks to high heaven and most people will run from the scent. But flies, which the flower loves to eat, enjoy the odor. Your label is that perfume if you use it right, to attract a hot smart goth chick and repel the ditzy cheerleader. If you want the opposite, remove the ear-arm. Talk about Britney Spears instead of Bukowski. Some old moralists might tell you its wrong to fake being something you're not. Fuck that shit. You are whatever you want to be, and if you play somehting else to get what you want, good for you. Just mind the flying toaster she throws if she finds out.

Remember that no matter what you wear or don't wear, however you speak of stay silent, people will try to read it and figure out what you are from it. It will never end, not after your death- They will read your tombstone and condemn or praise what's on it. So study, master the game, and play well. Label Phobia? Might as well fear existence.

This has been your weekly performance of "Delta Paraphrases Satanic Witch". If you do have labelphobia be sure to read that book, it's the user's manual for the self you show the world.

Bravo Delta! That was the most intriguing and applicable read I've had in a while, even if I already did the aforementioned steps to an extent.

I haven't personally had someone tell me I'm a freak, do mostly to the fact that they were afraid of what this freak might do to them if they crossed me.

I tried to be popular for less then a year, in 6th grade. After a while of that failing miserably I said fuck it, and found the 4 other kids who were similar to me. I consider that year to be the true start of my Satanic emergence.

Now days I relish in my freakiness even more. The way I look at it is thus: The kind of people I don't want talking to me are the ones who are scared off. The kind of people I do want talking to me are those who are intrigued, or better yet, are like me.

Quite interesting subject, this.

I think a certain "label-phobia" is natural insofar that none of us monkeys like to be misunderstood (even though this is probably unavoidable) and we find it a little offensive to be judged by people who have no idea who we are and how we think and feel, etc.

This is where Lesser Magic is such a brilliant strategy. But it does take some training to undo the afore mentioned natural tendency to take offence at "being eyeballed" in that particular way... especally by people you don't think very highly of... however, I am of the opinion that your lesser magic can only be as good as your ability to detach from whatever emotions other people have the power to install in you through their words and actions.

If you play this game right you can to a great extent play the psychological complex of prejudice and stereotyping like it was a musical instrument. When you master this art you can make people love you or hate you at will, simply by playing on their "narrative" (their scripted sense of reality). It means a turning of the tables - in that you know people will judge you anyway so why not use that to your advantage rather than indulge in Quixotic protests against it?

No, I can't say that I myself have. But to echo Witch Gausten, I do have a distaste for the compulsive I-can't-be-labeled types. The tragic irony is that they turn "no label" into a label that they must cling to at all costs. There's nothing superior about conforming to non-conformity.

Musicians are especially notorious for this. "Oh, our music simply can't be categorized!" Gee, talk about counter-productive pride when it comes to marketing and making a living off your art. Reminds me of this bit from comedian Todd Barry:

I was talking to a woman who said she manages bands. So I said, "What's the band sound like?" You know, just to torture her a little bit.
She said, "Oh! Man! I can't -- I don't even know if I can describe it, man!"
"Yeah? Give it a whirl."
"Well, the band sounds like a combination of Weezer, Green Day, and Buddy Holly."
"Oh. So they sound like Weezer."


I've always thought that the term "popular" was a misnomer when it came to school cliques. "Unpopular" students are typically well-known by the status quo.

I don't mind labels. They are convenient. Sometimes when you are describing people to others it's just easier to use that broad stroke and then fill in the details later. I don't feel like people would use labels that didn't fit me to some degree. There have been times where I had to step back from myself and examine why certain people were labeling me certain ways. It was a learning experience.

That seems to be exactly how I think and feel about it.

I think being mislabeled is inevitable. A combination of an imprecise language and the fact that a lot of people either don't know better, don't care or care for all the wrong reasons.

Along with what other folks have said about using this to your advantage, I think it can be helpful to learn how you are viewed. Sometimes there is a huge gap between the way you want to be perceived and how you actually are perceived. Like listening to myself on an answering machine; my voice never sounds the same as it does inside my head.

Re: whether or not it bothers me. I think it depends on the audience. Being called a devil-worshiper by a bunch of kids in highschool might've been funny. Being called the same thing by a spiteful ex when you're trying to gain custody of your kids, not so much.

Labels can cost people their jobs, they can get people locked up, they can get people dead. So I'd be cautious about being too dismissive about their importance. Context and all that.

I personally find nothing wrong with labels. Actually I am quite fond of them.
They are useful, fun and can be used to your advantage if you are skilled in lesser magic.

And I think I sound a bit like a lady Kermit the Frog on recordings . Other people assure me it ain't so.

As a teenager, I began to receive feedback from people that my voice was harsh and sometimes monotonous, and my tone, condescending and cold. I wasn't even aware of this until then, so I had to go back to the proverbial drawing board (or recording studio, more like) and learn how to soften my tone and warm my voice.



Right. I also don't like being grossly misunderstood by people I care about, of course.

As you noted, because labels can cost you your life or your livelihood, it can also be quite important to leave a positive--even if it's inaccurate or false--impression on those in positions of power or authority.

Premiering Tonight: Witch TrojZyr singing "The Rainbow Connection"!

I sound like Lauren Bacall in my head (of course). Unfortunately the reality (at least on that one answering machine) was closer to Baby Firefly.

Imagine my horror.

I don't mind being labled at all. Here's a picture of today's label:

I'm really liking that shirt.

I thought about buying this one just for fun.

Labels in general can be useful to label-ee and label-er. Labels in particular and in context can certainly be problematic. But I think many people who dislike labels in general are reacting to the fact that one label can be perceived as excluding another label in some minds; e.g., being labeled as a jock can exclude (in some minds) being labeled as a scholar, or vice versa; and many people would like the flexibility of being perceived as whichever of the two is most advantageous in a given context. This doesn't bother me because I typically volunteer information about myself that will cause my listener to think of me in the desired manner.

I seriously don't care, you can label me all you want till you are blue in the face. It is your time not mine.

Here is a quote I admire from an unknown author:

"Your opinion of me is none of my business. What I think of you is what you should be concerned about. Handle your own business, or I will handle it for you. "

I think it's natural for most humans to what to label others. By putting people into categories they know what they are and how to deal with them.

Case in point: I love black, velvet, lace, silver and amethyst, horror movies etc.
Ok, you're a goth.
But I don't really like goth music, I like black/death metal.
Ok, you're a metalhead.
Yeah, but I'm also a computer programmer, graphic artist and web designer who enjoys comic books, science fiction and various sciences.
Ok, you're a nerd.
But I also enjoy classical music and played classical flute for many years.
Band geek?
And I also study psychology, languages, literature and...
Ok WTH are you???

My own personal objection to labels is that too often the labeller is applying the label with the intent of degrading or limiting the labellee.

We all wear labels whether we like it or not but we are also more than that. (I would hope) One label doesn't always encapsulate the labellee nor should we allow ourselves to be restricted by the scope of our labels, self-imposed or not.

My two cents.

I love labels. Sure, they often lead to gross generalizations, but they are useful. The only problem I ever see is when people try to conform to a specific label just to have an identity.

I kind of like being labeled, so long as the label isn't too insulting. It's always interesting to see how people label me, and I don't make it easy for them. Back in school, I had a foot in several crowds: skaters, stoners, rednecks, nerds, goths, whites, blacks, Mexicans...a little bit of each culture rubbed off on me. I never considered it conforming; I just had a large number of cultural interests (I guess I shouldn't be surprised that I married a foreigner). However, the diversity of my personal and cultural expressions often confuses people (cowboy hats and Nas t-shirts don't go together?) It's not intentional, but it's fun to watch the confusion. Keep the labels coming.

Labels are also great for things other than people. For one, I love labels in music because it helps me know what I'm getting into when I discover a new artist. Artists often hate being pigeonholed, but the labels are very useful. It would surely be very hard to read an album review without some kind of artist or genre reference. I'm sure it can be done, but it takes more talent than most journalists have. Give me some points of reference...please. And there is always a point of reference. Don't pretend that your "unique" band was created in a vacuum.

Everyone labels. I label people that I meet or know. Some have complicated labels and some have simple labels in my mind. This seems to be the way that I cognitively recognize different people and categorize them in my mind.

I think we all label everyone and everything, and sometimes get quite the shock when we find that we MISlabeled them - I get that alot!

That's true ookiesoup. It all depends on the intention of the one that labels others and things. And as for the labelly, it's all about how they view themselves and how do they affect others.

I really like how you phrased this!

Some people spend their lifetime being enigmatic, never divulging their "true" self to anyone but maybe their spouse and a very intimate circle of old friends. Isn't it ironic when two people meet and they then walk away, both having successfully deceived the other?

Naturally, everyone welcomes being overestimated -- having one's skills, talents, or attributes exaggerated in a positive light, granting a higher degree of respect than actually earned. By the same token, being underestimated may also work to one's advantage. This is just another example of the age old "wolf in sheep's clothing" cliche. Using this ruse one can remain "under the radar" and go unscrutinized. And when the time does come to show more of one's "true colors," the element of surprise is an ally.

Conceal, Confuse, Deceive.

The wheelbarrow test

May you find this useful.

I, for myself feel that I have a kind of subconscious urge to label people, simply to not have to bother longer to find out what they're really like.
If someone is really interesting, I just approach on my own to find out more, still going into the conversation with a little stereotype might not be that open-minded.
Once you've got to know somebody a little better, you wouldn't refer to him/her as "the goth" or "the nerd", because would somehow sound arrogant or even contemptuous.
So it's easier to label strangers, simply for there are no bad consequences to expect in the first place.
It backfire later though, that's why I keep those labels to myself.
If any of you have ever read Oliver Fehn's "Satan's bag of tricks" (I know, slight sensationalist slant...),
you've might come across the principle of keeping your personal thoughts to yourself, giving your opinion only when asked. That's what makes labelling me really hard for my environment, since I am a black-wearing dreadhead (which is one stereotype too much for the common labeller).
If only everyone would keep to shutting up until asked...
Maybe these labels wouldn't have even come up in the first place.
But as it seems, our "society" builds on labels, be it music, cars, peronalities, and so on.
Is that only my personal impression?

We live in a very judgmental society. There are many people out there who seem to have an uncanny ability to "label" others. Some of these people are projectionists. There are also some people who are easily labeled, because they made the decision to fit into a certain niche. Ex. the wanna-be gangsta, hippie, prep, etc. These people are so out of synch with themselves that they try so hard to be something that they are not. They are called sheep. They follow the herd, and are led to slaughter. These people do not stand out above the rest. They are just another in a long line of weak minded "individuals".

Not to mention all the people who go around thinking they are Satanists.

Am I the only one who misread the title of this thread, upon first glance to be "Labia Phobia"?

No?

Man! I am sicker than I thought...