I'm tired of people going on about how sick addicts are and how we have to protect them. They don't want help and they don't need our protection. Most of them know the risks of trying drugs, do it anyway and are too weak to deal with the consequences. Keep innocent children out of this equation.

If they get sober and want a child, wonderful. They should have thought about that before they traded that chance for $200 and an 8ball. Adoption is still an option.

I willingly went to rehab after my foray into the world of addiction after finding myself beaten up and bloody in a K-Mart parking lot.

If you can't read signs that clear, you probably shouldn't be having children in the first place.

My dad tried to convince me that alcoholism is a disease. I told him to tell that to a cancer patient and see if he knocks your lights out with the last of his strength.

Who is scum and who isn't is a matter of personal opinion and depends on who is in a position of power to pass that judgement. Now the scum are weak and poor people and I wonder who will be the next to deserve that title.

I try not to judge who is worthy and who is unworthy of my pity. And I try not to despise people who are down there at the bottom of the society, because fortune is very changeable and unpredictable. Now the others fall and suffer, next time it could be me.

And it wouldn't be nice to be called scum then. Would it?

Give it a whirl sometime! You may like it.

Fuck that. Just to pull back a bit of pretty internet screen we all carry just for a minute and get real down and dirty; having been homeless and been a worthless member of society, the highlight was spending the night on the 'capital of heroin addiction' in England, a particular street in Derby, with a guy who's skull was showing through various skin diseases contracted through HIV, a 'change in fortune' has fuck all to do with drug addiction, and 'down on my luck' is a different type of scum to some asshole with no character that turns to drugs. Not once did I turn to drugs, and I say anyone that does should be hung publicly. Having rimjobbed the asshole of 'western poverty', there are far more important things I had to think about that getting high. I have even more disgust for someone who has had something and lost it through addiction.

Being despised at the bottom fueled me to pull myself up, and if the abuse causes the weak to cave in hopefully it'll lead to suicide and make it easier for any other Satanists that stumble into the financial kill zone.

Anna, Satanism does exactly what you deride: pass judgements. That is precisely what we advocate. Whether your judgement or mine coincide or mine and another Satanist's coincide is almost irrelevant. The judgement is a freedom we happily exercise.

In this case, I openly, and without guilt, judge addicts who irresponsibly have children to be negligible people, and as such, I have no issue that they volunteer for sterilization. It is probably the most responsible thing that they will ever do.

And if you think that you do not judge who is and isn't worthy of your pity you are living with blinders on. Have you not decided that addicts are worthy of your pity? That is a judgement. It's just one we don't agree on, but it is a value attributed to an arbitrary situation nonetheless.

While the line between "scum" and "not scum" isn't set in stone and there's a lot of room for personal opinion, it's ridiculous to think there aren't any objective standards. If say we're comparing an illiterate serving time on death row for triple homicide, with somebody like Thomas Edison, there's clearly a difference.


I am indeed in a position to pass judgment on another human being, even if I can't enforce anything. Why wouldn't I be? It's MY life that I'm living, and anybody who think I can't examine other people and make decisions and conclusions based off those observations, is delusional.


What does the remote possibility of you being in their position have to do with anything? If I found myself in such a situation, then I'd do what I could to pull myself out. That's what makes me different from the scum.

Who is scum and who isn't is a matter of personal opinion and depends on who is in a position of power to pass that judgement.

So? Who is and is not fit to be your spouse is also a matter of personal opinion, but it's one we're all free to make. Satanism acknowledges that men are free to make judgement upon one another. This "only god can judge me" shit is ridiculous; besides the lack of such god, it implies a psychological desire for immunity from one's actions. Sorry, world doesn't work that way. Everyone judges everyone else, that is the way of the world.

Also, power is no small part of what Satanic philosophy is predicated upon. Yes, you will be judged differently based upon which social circle is doing the judging and what becomes of you based on that judgement is a result of who has the power to enforce their judgement. Again, so what? That's life in the real world.

Now the scum are weak and poor people and I wonder who will be the next to deserve that title.

The weak, the poor, the stupid, the pathetic, the helpless, the whiny, the useless, the gullible...the list goes on. Why wonder when you can merely ask?

Satanism is not a white light religion. We do not endorse propping up the worthless in the manner that Christianity does. That does not mean we won't help those we care about, but we also acknowledge that we do it for selfish reasons (as in, they mean something to us personally). Our generosity to friends and family can be considerable, but our charity to the wretched is nonexistent.

I try not to despise people who are down there at the bottom of the society, because fortune is very changeable and unpredictable. Now the others fall and suffer, next time it could be me.

"But for the grace of god, there goes I." What a self degrading platitude that one is! Don't want to end up drunk in a gutter like the hobos? Then don't be a worthless, no working, good for nothing drunk! To imply that folks who do their part and are responsible are just a dice throw away from being among the useless is insulting. Certainly good fortune is nice to have, but to rely on it for a decent life is akin to relying on the lottery for your retirement - in other words, it's really fucking stupid.

I'm aware that you are not a Satanist, but you did come here saying you wanted to see what we're about. So why the surprise? Did you really think we were all singing kumbayah around a campfire or something?

I personally think offering people desperate for money anything to put over a social agenda is a bit fucked. I don't care what it is or my personal opinion of the "offending behaviour."

People can choose to do whatever they want with their lives. Just because someone doesn't live up to the standards I set for myself does not mean I have the right to control them. Apparently this organization thinks Big Brother knows best.

Eugenics and manipulating people are things I don't think should mix. They are practically buying and paying for a big score for someone so their agenda that anyone that uses drugs deserves sterilization can be fulfilled.

I liked the intelligent design analogy, but these people don't strike me as intelligent nor capable of designing the next evolution whatsoever.

Seems like everyone is in favor of this as long as it meets their moral sensibilities. (i;m gonna use the slippery slope argument, despite its fallacy because it is true in this case) What if next month another organization decided gay people, handicapped people, people that steal, crossdressers, whatever were a burden to children that don't exist and offered them something they knew they would rather have NOW instead of a decision they likely haven't even considered, to determine their future.

So you're saying that offering people desperate for money a chance at money to voluntarily not do something that damages not only their own life but the life of a child is fucked? And you equate this kind of voluntary offer to "Big Brother?"

No, clearly you don't fit in here too well, and you also apparently never read 1984.

But to fill in the blank in your mind, I (personally) would support compulsory sterilization of drug addicts. Fuck 'em.

Respectfully, that assumes every person who does drugs will continue to do so forever and it also assumes any drug use will affect children that have not been born yet, either directly or through genetics. Some people will always be destitute, moreso from their psychological profile than their behaviour and will numb their horrible existence with anything they can find. Other people can choose to stop boozing or whatever their affliction is or decide to do or not to do something.

Let's do an honest comparison here. Alcohol afflicts FAR more people than elicit drugs do. Who makes the decision that one drinks too much? Every textbook definition of alcoholism that I have run into (hearsay) pegs damn near everyone that drinks as such. Considering how many Satanists drink and do it proudly (me too!) to no one elses' peril and with virtually no concern to their health because of the non-excessive nature of it, I wonder how many people think they deserve sterilization as well. The smart money says this kind of organization believes someone enjoying a 6 pack over a long afternoon will eventually be chugging fifths of vodka when they get out of bed. That is just the nature of anti-alcohol advocates. They truly believe any drinking is alcoholism at its core. The entire spectrum of people that are productive, creative and responsible occasionally using drugs is avoided entirely as if it is a fairly tale. Everyone knows the drug issue is a legal one with Satanism, so if people have a beef with lawbreakers, that's another issue.

On the other side of the argument, I wonder if they have a medical license this org has to dispense medical advice with.

Two words: Personal Responsibility

If you think that something like that is a bad idea in the long run and you fall for it anyway, you can’t blame “Big Brother” for your crappy decision-making. If people weren’t such irresponsible idiots, then we wouldn't need things like this in the first place.

Also did you just throw “people that steal” in there? That kind of behavior is even more unacceptable and yes it should be controlled, discouraged and punished.

I understand clearly that people are responsible for their own actions.

You know, on second thought, I'm starting to see a paradox in this. That is, a responsible chemical abuser probably wouldn't take 200 bucks for their sterilization.

That said, yeah, I'm gonna have to change my mind. If someone needs the money that bad to get high...

Still a lot of holes in their program. I wonder how many people are going down there to get the 200 dollar power bill paid off because they really need the money. And no, being poor is not an excuse to sterilize anyone.

Might is right. And what exactly is a "right"? A right is something you take or is given to you and you have the power to keep. If this seems to be paradoxical to the libertarian philosophies of the majority of the members of this board, I would suggest that the paradox is an illusion. Take some time to try and sort it out. Without a map, you will learn a lot.

I don't really see how you derived that from Reverend von Tronje's post. You can carry out a sentence on a criminal regardless of whether or not he or she will commit the same crime again.

Doctor Jack Kevorkian or his methods would be a great alternative.