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#435644 - 10/20/10 10:25 AM End of Earth Postponed
LordofDarkness Offline
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Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 756
Loc: Tennessee, U.S.
It has been suggested now that 2012 will not happen.

Let's add 2012 to the long list of failed doomsday predictions.

Apparently, people want the planet to be destroyed very bad.

Thoughts?
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"Any group or collective, large or small, is only a number of individuals. A group can have no rights other than the rights of its individual members." - Ayn Rand

"Laws are there for a reason. You may not agree with them but you gotta obey them. Nobody wants to be in court." - Sonic the Hedgehog

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#435647 - 10/20/10 10:29 AM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: LordofDarkness]
Phineas Offline
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Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8257
This theme was visited in 1999 by Magister Sprague in his book "The Millennium: Aspects From Another Angle", where examples are shown of how the doomsday reset button has been pushed through history.
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#435648 - 10/20/10 10:33 AM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: Phineas]
LordofDarkness Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 756
Loc: Tennessee, U.S.
I haven't heard of that book. I'll be delighted to look into that. Thank you very much Magister Phineas!
_________________________

"Any group or collective, large or small, is only a number of individuals. A group can have no rights other than the rights of its individual members." - Ayn Rand

"Laws are there for a reason. You may not agree with them but you gotta obey them. Nobody wants to be in court." - Sonic the Hedgehog

"Satanism is not a white light religion; it is a religion of the flesh, the mundane, the carnal - all of which are ruled by Satan, the personification of the Left Hand Path." - Magus LaVey

"Test Everything, Believe Nothing." -

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#435650 - 10/20/10 10:44 AM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: LordofDarkness]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8257
The CoS Emporium used to carry it.
_________________________
"Consensus is the absence of leadership." Margaret Thatcher

"I'm fascinated with how primitive the human mind still is. It can be misdirected so easily." John Gaughan


"Success is uncommon. Therefore, not to be enjoyed by the common man." Cal Stoll

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#435651 - 10/20/10 10:51 AM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: LordofDarkness]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12982
Loc: The Solid State
Back in 1999, I observed five main (often overlapping) types of Doomsday-sayers:

1) Inwardly or outwardly vindictive or spiteful types who were looking forward to seeing sinners Get Theirs,

2) Overwhelmed types who felt that a complete meltdown of the system would allow them to return to a simpler, more straightforward way of life,

3) Would-be and wannabe heroes (and sometimes, villains) who believed that a complete meltdown of the system would give them an opportunity to rise to a position of power, glory, or leadership,

4) Rousseauians and Edenists who believed that a total meltdown would force the human race to get in touch with its spiritual and/or physical roots, and that this would bring about an era of unprecedented tranquility and prosperity,

and

5) Suicidal types who were out of touch with their own suicidality.
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#435652 - 10/20/10 10:52 AM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: LordofDarkness]
verszou Offline



Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 1812
Loc: Denmark
I never gave much thought to it, but could not help laughing when Neil DeGrasse Tyson talked about it on YouTube. He pointed out, that the big scare was related to an alignment of planets, which he admitted would happen in 2012 ... same as it would each and every year smile


Edited by verszou (10/20/10 10:52 AM)
Edit Reason: Spelling misteak
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#435665 - 10/20/10 12:40 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: LordofDarkness]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
Really? Woof . . . Over the past decade I was really stressed over this. wink

There goes my doomsday party. cry

All this means is that new doomsday interpretations will be crafted by mystics.
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#435667 - 10/20/10 01:08 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: TrojZyr]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
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Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 6999
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
Interesting...I fit #2.
grin
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#435670 - 10/20/10 01:43 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: LordofDarkness]
Venom Offline


Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 295
Loc: In the Belly of the Beast.
I've always liked doomsday predictions, they make for great movies. I wonder what the next doomsday prediction will be...
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#435676 - 10/20/10 02:24 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: Venom]
anna Offline


Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 219
Loc: Poland
Quote:
I've always liked doomsday predictions, they make for great movies.


Exactly, 2012 movie was brilliant!
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#435683 - 10/20/10 03:36 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: verszou]
JayLucif Offline

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Registered: 11/09/02
Posts: 1705
Loc: Helheim
You better be careful with that laughing there buddy boy. grin

Well if you actually look at all the wild hairy 2012 theories, the notion is that in 2012 when the current Solar systems planets fully align an unknown and mysterious Planet X arrives from completely out of nowhere totally fooling all the worlds Astronomers and Astrophysicists. This event as some of these people claim will cause the large magnetic field from Planet X to pull the Earths Polar Magnetic fields which will cause the Earths fields to reverse and change the rotation of the Earth around the Sun and within the Solar system as well, creating all kinds of chaos and havoc upon the simpering cowering Humans on Earth. The story goes the seas will become land and the land will become seas, some sort of silliness.

Now this is all of course all assumption as I have yet to find one source in the Astronomy field that even says such a Planet X exists, if it does exist Astronomers are doing a horrible job of not finding it but quick. We need a fast track space program to blow that sucker up before the world comes to an end, maybe we can get Bruce Willis to Play the Space Hero for real this time. wink

http://ezinearticles.com/?Planet-X-Orbit...&id=4356169

http://polarshift2012.net/planet-x-orbit-2012.php

Just for some fun, since the Doom has been spoken about here might as well add to it, I love doom and gloom, gets me jollies off.

Although than again if I just think really, really hard with all my mental might, I might be able to make the whole mystery Planet X just disappear and everyone will be as snug as a bug in a rug and have never been the wiser. Yep little ole' me could become the savior of the whole wee wild world, yeah talk about a swelled up head now. grin
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Freedom, baby is never having to say you're sorry. Guilt is like a bag of fuckin' bricks. All ya gotta do is set it down. John Milton - The Devil's Advocate!

I'm gonna pull the whole thing down. I'm gonna bring the whole fuckin' diseased, corrupt temple down on your head. It's gonna be biblical. Clyde Shelton - Law Abiding Citizen!


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#435684 - 10/20/10 03:40 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: Roho_the_Rooster]
JayLucif Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 11/09/02
Posts: 1705
Loc: Helheim
I hate to say it to but I kind of fit number 2 as well.
How odd.
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Freedom, baby is never having to say you're sorry. Guilt is like a bag of fuckin' bricks. All ya gotta do is set it down. John Milton - The Devil's Advocate!

I'm gonna pull the whole thing down. I'm gonna bring the whole fuckin' diseased, corrupt temple down on your head. It's gonna be biblical. Clyde Shelton - Law Abiding Citizen!


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#435694 - 10/20/10 04:49 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: JayLucif]
Machismo Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/05/10
Posts: 1132
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: JayLucif
Although then again if I just think really, really hard with all my mental might, I might be able to make the whole mystery Planet X just disappear


Too late! I already did it! I hope I at least get a new car like the guy who didn't burn a Koran. smile
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#435711 - 10/20/10 08:18 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: LordofDarkness]
inky Offline


Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 103
Loc: USA
Apparently the world has been ending since it began. Or something like that.

Even when most of these theories were at their height of popularity there was always a group that doubted it's validity and even if there was some evidence to support said theory, that there may have been a different interpretation.

For example, the Leeds hen. It was a hoax. The eggs were saying that "christ was coming." My first question would have been "when did they prove he came the first time?"

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#435734 - 10/21/10 12:50 AM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: JayLucif]
verszou Offline



Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 1812
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: JayLucif

Now this is all of course all assumption as I have yet to find one source in the Astronomy field that even says such a Planet X exists, if it does exist Astronomers are doing a horrible job of not finding it but quick. We need a fast track space program to blow that sucker up before the world comes to an end, maybe we can get Bruce Willis to Play the Space Hero for real this time. wink


It is actually not a bad idea to get something like that up and running, not for Planet X, but for other bodies that may collide with Earth before we get into space.

I recently heard Phil Plait (The Bad Astronomer) talk about it on the skeptics guide to the universe. His claim was that NASA would not be able to move fast enough if there was an "Armageddon" scenario.
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#435736 - 10/21/10 02:34 AM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: JayLucif]
Pablovilla Offline



Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 267
Loc: Victorville, California
Originally Posted By: JayLucif
You better be careful with that laughing there buddy boy. grin

Well if you actually look at all the wild hairy 2012 theories, the notion is that in 2012 when the current Solar systems planets fully align an unknown and mysterious Planet X arrives from completely out of nowhere totally fooling all the worlds Astronomers and Astrophysicists. This event as some of these people claim will cause the large magnetic field from Planet X to pull the Earths Polar Magnetic fields which will cause the Earths fields to reverse and change the rotation of the Earth around the Sun and within the Solar system as well, creating all kinds of chaos and havoc upon the simpering cowering Humans on Earth. The story goes the seas will become land and the land will become seas, some sort of silliness.



Since when has the magnetic poles moving changed anything other than the direction that a compass needle points anyways? Do these people know anything about inertia? The earth is spinning and because of that it can't flip, that is no more than a gyro can easily be turned. Also there is the other thing, how massive the earth is, it would take something much more powerful than a weak magnetic field to have any effect at all. F=MA or A=F/M

Also something to keep in mind the magnetic poles are moving all the time, but slowly, and just a guess here but it would not be any surprise if the particles put out by the sun that cause the northern lights, and same in the southern pole cause the magnetic poles of the earth to move more than any planet many times the distance of the earth to the sun. That is unless that planet were many times more massive than the sun and that is illogical to say that least that such a thing could exist.

I don't worry about underwear gnomes stealing my socks, and I'm not going to worry about some planet that the Hubble can't even see having any effect on the earth.
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#435763 - 10/21/10 08:27 AM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: verszou]
JayLucif Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 11/09/02
Posts: 1705
Loc: Helheim
Originally Posted By: verszou
Originally Posted By: JayLucif

Now this is all of course all assumption as I have yet to find one source in the Astronomy field that even says such a Planet X exists, if it does exist Astronomers are doing a horrible job of not finding it but quick. We need a fast track space program to blow that sucker up before the world comes to an end, maybe we can get Bruce Willis to Play the Space Hero for real this time. wink


It is actually not a bad idea to get something like that up and running, not for Planet X, but for other bodies that may collide with Earth before we get into space. This kind of program would not be a bad idea, but getting politicians on board to support such a necessary program, is a whole other game. Maybe some of these end of world theories might actually get those politicians to lazy or shortsighted to act move in a necessary positive way, towards a program that could avoid a world wide disaster.

I recently heard Phil Plait (The Bad Astronomer) talk about it on the skeptics guide to the universe. His claim was that NASA would not be able to move fast enough if there was an "Armageddon" scenario.


I tend to agree as well that putting a worthwhile program together to meet possible dangers of other bodies such as large asteroids hitting the earth, an extinction level event type of asteroid.

The post here I made was all tongue in cheek, I was kind of taking a stab at some modern movies, about the silly notion about fast track programs to save all of Humanity in the last fleeting moments. I was also taking a stab at the wild hairy conspiracy theories and even the Human Messiah complex as well.

There is always an unforeseen chance of any number of strange and odd things from the Universe to cause most or even all life on Earth to be destroyed. My post was an intent to break the ice, if Humans reach a point of an event of massive proportions, the most people could drive towards would be personal self survival for as long as possible and with those around themselves they care about. There are always fleeting chances there could be a Gama Ray burst relatively close to this solar system and fry everything living on the face of the planet, but again it is all like everything else, an assumption. I guess it all comes down to what is really important for personal survival, and what will work towards that personal survival. Anything beyond that really is beyond personal control. Sometimes one just has to let go and flow with the way the water is moving. Moving against the current of what might be versus what currently is, this kind of thing is pointless and will leave one going nowhere anyway.

But trying to second guess what may or may not happen on 2012, makes as much sense as how some groups of people reacted to the possibility of a world wide technology break down over the Y2k scare. It is just all inflated fear, panic, and paranoia. Let those type of things rule the day and one would not want to walk out their front doors, when going through that door might be necessary to survive.

I have no intention of dying willingly if that death can be avoided, but there is always a chance walking down the street, that walk could be my very last walk as well. The end of world stuff if something happens, it will happen, if it does not happen, great I will give a toast to another story of Armageddon fooled again. Live life well enough, and with great intent and intensity, and an Individual will come out far more happier and productive versus what the wacky end of the Earth Sayers assume will happen.

"Live Long and Prosper"
_________________________
------------------------------------------------------------

Freedom, baby is never having to say you're sorry. Guilt is like a bag of fuckin' bricks. All ya gotta do is set it down. John Milton - The Devil's Advocate!

I'm gonna pull the whole thing down. I'm gonna bring the whole fuckin' diseased, corrupt temple down on your head. It's gonna be biblical. Clyde Shelton - Law Abiding Citizen!


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#435766 - 10/21/10 08:40 AM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: Pablovilla]
JayLucif Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 11/09/02
Posts: 1705
Loc: Helheim
Originally Posted By: paul_r
Originally Posted By: JayLucif
You better be careful with that laughing there buddy boy. grin

Well if you actually look at all the wild hairy 2012 theories, the notion is that in 2012 when the current Solar systems planets fully align an unknown and mysterious Planet X arrives from completely out of nowhere totally fooling all the worlds Astronomers and Astrophysicists. This event as some of these people claim will cause the large magnetic field from Planet X to pull the Earths Polar Magnetic fields which will cause the Earths fields to reverse and change the rotation of the Earth around the Sun and within the Solar system as well, creating all kinds of chaos and havoc upon the simpering cowering Humans on Earth. The story goes the seas will become land and the land will become seas, some sort of silliness.



Since when has the magnetic poles moving changed anything other than the direction that a compass needle points anyways? Do these people know anything about inertia? The earth is spinning and because of that it can't flip, that is no more than a gyro can easily be turned. Also there is the other thing, how massive the earth is, it would take something much more powerful than a weak magnetic field to have any effect at all. F=MA or A=F/M

Also something to keep in mind the magnetic poles are moving all the time, but slowly, and just a guess here but it would not be any surprise if the particles put out by the sun that cause the northern lights, and same in the southern pole cause the magnetic poles of the earth to move more than any planet many times the distance of the earth to the sun. That is unless that planet were many times more massive than the sun and that is illogical to say that least that such a thing could exist.

I don't worry about underwear gnomes stealing my socks, and I'm not going to worry about some planet that the Hubble can't even see having any effect on the earth.


I would not know as I have very little knowledge in regards to Physics and the areas of Quantum mechanics that might make such an large object do something that would alter a planets' gravitational field and/or that planets' electromagnetic field. I was shooting from the hip from the theories of the End of Earth Days sooth Sayers, about the possible 2012 scenarios. I was not trying to assume these ideas where true, correct, or even accurate, my post was all tongue in cheek, not to be taken seriously.

Message boards make it rather difficult while being somewhat sarcastic, or making a post in jest of some very weak information.
_________________________
------------------------------------------------------------

Freedom, baby is never having to say you're sorry. Guilt is like a bag of fuckin' bricks. All ya gotta do is set it down. John Milton - The Devil's Advocate!

I'm gonna pull the whole thing down. I'm gonna bring the whole fuckin' diseased, corrupt temple down on your head. It's gonna be biblical. Clyde Shelton - Law Abiding Citizen!


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#435832 - 10/21/10 09:23 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: Discipline]
Isabel23 Online
CoS Magistra

Registered: 12/17/02
Posts: 2040
There goes my doomsday party.

Why can't we have a doomsday party every now and then?

Multiple doomsdays -- multiple parties! What an opportunity!

Remember to take other people's bets for doomsday while you're at it! devilchili
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#435837 - 10/21/10 09:57 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: LordofDarkness]
Citizen Jonesy Offline
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Registered: 09/22/02
Posts: 994
Loc: Palm Springs, California, USA
I kinda figured out that when the Mayan calender "ends", it probably means that it cycles over again, like ours does every 356¼ days.

But it's fun to watch all of the doomsday people run around like idiots. I like a good show! What Satanist doesn't?
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#435862 - 10/22/10 03:56 AM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: TrojZyr]
Machismo Offline
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Registered: 02/05/10
Posts: 1132
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: TrojZyr
Back in 1999, I observed five main (often overlapping) types of Doomsday-sayers:


There's a sixth type, whose driving impulse strikes a chord for me, despite its obvious irrational element:

6) Bored with Western civilization, they hope a meltdown of the system will make daily life more exciting by making it more dangerous.

Trust me, I see the applicability of the well known dictum, "Be careful what you wish for." Yet something in me perks up and trembles with anticipation when I think of a reality where the problems aren't economic but biological, how to breathe, how to eat, how to drink, how not to bleed to death, how not to be crushed like a bug. I see the irrational element very clearly, yet the impulse is there.

What interests me at the moment is to what extent the 2012 meme will become a self-fulfilling prophecy. A worldwide expectation that something very dramatic may happen could cause, through subconscious mechanisms, something very dramatic to happen. 2012 is different from 2000 or 2001. 2012 has its own mythology. 2012 is a core symbol for many of the New Age paradigms. Anyone who believes in super-human entities of any kind is willing to believe that these entities are planning something for 2012. These super-human entities may have no objective existence but their subjective existence is very real and spans the infected psyche from its murkiest depths to its sunniest heights. What psycho-dynamics will begin to unfold when the calendar says 2012? Time will tell.
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#435887 - 10/22/10 08:43 AM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: Machismo]
LordofDarkness Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 756
Loc: Tennessee, U.S.
Huh... I'm proud to be none of those. smile

I just work through this muck of what the doom-sayers would call "miserable existence", and turn it into something I like.

I'm quite happy today as well actually. It's the month of October and my birthday is right after Halloween.


Edited by LordOfDarkness (10/22/10 09:46 AM)
_________________________

"Any group or collective, large or small, is only a number of individuals. A group can have no rights other than the rights of its individual members." - Ayn Rand

"Laws are there for a reason. You may not agree with them but you gotta obey them. Nobody wants to be in court." - Sonic the Hedgehog

"Satanism is not a white light religion; it is a religion of the flesh, the mundane, the carnal - all of which are ruled by Satan, the personification of the Left Hand Path." - Magus LaVey

"Test Everything, Believe Nothing." -

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#435888 - 10/22/10 08:51 AM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: Isabel23]
LordofDarkness Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 756
Loc: Tennessee, U.S.
Hell yeah! I was just talking with my girlfriend about having a field party next year. That will be awsome!

A party with a doomsday theme is actually a pretty good idea.
_________________________

"Any group or collective, large or small, is only a number of individuals. A group can have no rights other than the rights of its individual members." - Ayn Rand

"Laws are there for a reason. You may not agree with them but you gotta obey them. Nobody wants to be in court." - Sonic the Hedgehog

"Satanism is not a white light religion; it is a religion of the flesh, the mundane, the carnal - all of which are ruled by Satan, the personification of the Left Hand Path." - Magus LaVey

"Test Everything, Believe Nothing." -

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#435939 - 10/22/10 07:22 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: LordofDarkness]
Magick Offline


Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3
Loc: NorCal
There's a lot more going on than just the end of the Mayan calendar. A good read might be "Planet X Forecast And 2012 Survival Guide" by Masters and Manning. witch
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#435962 - 10/23/10 03:19 AM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: LordofDarkness]
Shade Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/08/06
Posts: 6133
Loc: A Trailer Park
Originally Posted By: LordofDarkness
A party with a doomsday theme is actually a pretty good idea.


And my twin sister's idea of turning 34 apparently. grin

I am a very sympathetic sibling though. I sent her an appropriate soundtrack.

Doomsdaying sounds fun, I'll bring the cupcakes!



(What does it say about me that I translate everything into cupcakes?)
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#435964 - 10/23/10 03:22 AM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: Shade]
Delta Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/18/07
Posts: 6747
Loc: Nar
Tell her to be happy, she outlived Jesus!



EDIT: How are there no Jesus Cupcakes online? Thousands of Devil Cupcakes but no Jesus Cupcakes. I guess at some point we won?
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#435966 - 10/23/10 03:32 AM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: Delta]
Shade Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/08/06
Posts: 6133
Loc: A Trailer Park
HAHAHAHAHA! I'll put that on a t-shirt for her. In glitter puffy paint. grin

Originally Posted By: Delta
How are there no Jesus Cupcakes online? Thousands of Devil Cupcakes but no Jesus Cupcakes. I guess at some point we won?


Ha! No cupcakes for you, losers! My cupcake is better than yours. grin

_________________________
"What happens in the shadow, in the grey regions, also interests us – all that is elusive and fugitive, all that can be said in those beautiful half tones, or in whispers, in deep shade." ~ The Brothers Quay

I Live In A Trailer Park

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#435973 - 10/23/10 05:29 AM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: Shade]
verszou Offline



Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 1812
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: Shade

Doomsdaying sounds fun, I'll bring the cupcakes!


Those are truly epic cupcakes smile
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#435974 - 10/23/10 06:11 AM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: Delta]
Machismo Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/05/10
Posts: 1132
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: Delta
EDIT: How are there no Jesus Cupcakes online?


Specially baked for the Rapture -


Attachments
Christ on a Cupcake.jpg


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#435975 - 10/23/10 06:32 AM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: Shade]
JayLucif Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 11/09/02
Posts: 1705
Loc: Helheim
Originally Posted By: Shade
Originally Posted By: LordofDarkness
A party with a doomsday theme is actually a pretty good idea.


And my twin sister's idea of turning 34 apparently. grin

I am a very sympathetic sibling though. I sent her an appropriate soundtrack.

Doomsdaying sounds fun, I'll bring the cupcakes!



(What does it say about me that I translate everything into cupcakes?)


You know if you do interesting ideas like that on Cupcakes, you could start a business. It is already being done on doughnuts, why not cupcakes?

I'll take a dozen of the Alien Design please. coopdevil

I love me some E.T.s at least the ideas behind their supposed abilities are hell of allot more interesting than most Humans on this dirt ball planet.

Beam me up Scotty!!! jack
_________________________
------------------------------------------------------------

Freedom, baby is never having to say you're sorry. Guilt is like a bag of fuckin' bricks. All ya gotta do is set it down. John Milton - The Devil's Advocate!

I'm gonna pull the whole thing down. I'm gonna bring the whole fuckin' diseased, corrupt temple down on your head. It's gonna be biblical. Clyde Shelton - Law Abiding Citizen!


------------------------------------------------------------

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#435977 - 10/23/10 09:03 AM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: Shade]
LordofDarkness Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 756
Loc: Tennessee, U.S.
I like the smiley face with the gunshot wound.

I don't eat cupcakes that much at all but... Mmmmm... They look so delicious! So pastey... laugh
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"Any group or collective, large or small, is only a number of individuals. A group can have no rights other than the rights of its individual members." - Ayn Rand

"Laws are there for a reason. You may not agree with them but you gotta obey them. Nobody wants to be in court." - Sonic the Hedgehog

"Satanism is not a white light religion; it is a religion of the flesh, the mundane, the carnal - all of which are ruled by Satan, the personification of the Left Hand Path." - Magus LaVey

"Test Everything, Believe Nothing." -

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#436000 - 10/23/10 02:31 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: Machismo]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12982
Loc: The Solid State
Originally Posted By: Machismo

There's a sixth type, whose driving impulse strikes a chord for me, despite its obvious irrational element:

6) Bored with Western civilization, they hope a meltdown of the system will make daily life more exciting by making it more dangerous.


Quite! But, at heart, I'd tend to consider those types Wannabe Heroes of a sort, because they're assuming that they are going to be able to triumph in the face of these new challenges.

Quote:
What interests me at the moment is to what extent the 2012 meme will become a self-fulfilling prophecy. A worldwide expectation that something very dramatic may happen could cause, through subconscious mechanisms, something very dramatic to happen.


Could be--certainly, in the past, the Rapture-happy evangelicals have seemed quite keen on spreading or allowing chaos and disorder, whether in the form of political unrest, economic meltdowns, or environmental degradation.

But, because so many 2012 predictions are actually quite optimistic, or even, insanely idealistic, people could be inspired to steer things either way.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#436009 - 10/23/10 04:39 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: TrojZyr]
JayLucif Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 11/09/02
Posts: 1705
Loc: Helheim
That is kind of a really scary thought you brought up here.

I usually do not subscribe to this guys politics but he kind of pointed out this same thing about religious nuts as well. Bill Maher with he's political commentary comedy show Real Time with Bill Maher. Some of he's shows were about this topic, like at least from the insane terrorists Islamic groups who don't mind taking a few extras with them when trying to reach Alla in their martyrdom acts. Bill Maher kind of pointed out these ideas as well during President Bush's administration, about how wacky some got within he's administration, how some reacted to all Muslims in general and that this wild self fulfilling prophecy of a Xian/Muslim Holy War scenario might actually be possible, because all these religious nut jobs want to go to the same place anyway, and who cares if they destroy everything in their path while trying to get there.

Nothing is more dangerous than a group of people deluded who think they are going to go and see god, and those who do not care what damage they will leave in their path from their departure from this World. After all the world is going to burn in fire anyway, does not really matter how much destruction you leave behind anyway right?

I always wondered if you have a large enough group of people all focused on the same general ideas about the rapture, end of days, any other type of apocalyptic scenario, I have wondered if the very events can not some how naturally manifest itself somehow anyway.

I know this is a wild shot in the dark, a world wide religion that worships a Duck coming back to save Humanity, a large enough group that has enough mental minds focusing on this image, I wonder if a bright shiny Duck would not somehow just manifest itself anyway.

The reason I point this out as most xian groups and even the Muslims hold to the notion that in order for their religious prophecies to come to fruition, the whole world either has to be converted to their particular brand of "god" religion. This is the main driving force of Islam currently everyone must convert, those that don't from the very fanatical types should be killed. Xianity did the same thing conversion at the end of a sword, all must convert or die as a non believer. What religious delusion will lead groups of people to do.
_________________________
------------------------------------------------------------

Freedom, baby is never having to say you're sorry. Guilt is like a bag of fuckin' bricks. All ya gotta do is set it down. John Milton - The Devil's Advocate!

I'm gonna pull the whole thing down. I'm gonna bring the whole fuckin' diseased, corrupt temple down on your head. It's gonna be biblical. Clyde Shelton - Law Abiding Citizen!


------------------------------------------------------------

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#436029 - 10/23/10 10:40 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: JayLucif]
anna Offline


Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 219
Loc: Poland
Originally Posted By: JayLucif
Bill Maher kind of pointed out these ideas as well during President Bush's administration, about how wacky some got within he's administration, how some reacted to all Muslims in general and that this wild self fulfilling prophecy of a Xian/Muslim Holy War scenario might actually be possible, because all these religious nut jobs want to go to the same place anyway, and who cares if they destroy everything in their path while trying to get there.


Perhaps there will be some holy war between Christians and Muslims. There is a huge gap between the western world and Arabic countries.

Muslim terrorists are dangerous. As regards radical Protestants in America, if they believe that they will be literally "kidnapped" to heaven, it is, certainly, ridiculous. I only wonder what atrocities they commit except holding a different opinion. I know that shouting rubbish in the streets can be irritating but it's a side effect of democracy that we have to put up with.

The overwhelming desire to destroy everything has nothing to do with any religion or ideology, but with human nature. People tend to turn into monsters from time to time, regardless of ideas or beliefs they hold.

We don't know when and how the world will end. Irresponsible politicians can speed it up, so can social unrest. What about anarchist element and violent protests first in Greece and now in France? It seems that many people are tired and disillusioned with democratic systems. It's a bad sign.
_________________________
Just gonna stand there and watch me burn. Well that's alright because I like the way it hurts.

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#436039 - 10/23/10 11:45 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: anna]
inky Offline


Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 103
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: anna
Originally Posted By: JayLucif
Bill Maher kind of pointed out these ideas as well during President Bush's administration, about how wacky some got within he's administration, how some reacted to all Muslims in general and that this wild self fulfilling prophecy of a Xian/Muslim Holy War scenario might actually be possible, because all these religious nut jobs want to go to the same place anyway, and who cares if they destroy everything in their path while trying to get there.


Perhaps there will be some holy war between Christians and Muslims. There is a huge gap between the western world and Arabic countries.

Muslim terrorists are dangerous. As regards radical Protestants in America, if they believe that they will be literally "kidnapped" to heaven, it is, certainly, ridiculous. I only wonder what atrocities they commit except holding a different opinion. I know that shouting rubbish in the streets can be irritating but it's a side effect of democracy that we have to put up with.

The overwhelming desire to destroy everything has nothing to do with any religion or ideology, but with human nature. People tend to turn into monsters from time to time, regardless of ideas or beliefs they hold.

We don't know when and how the world will end. Irresponsible politicians can speed it up, so can social unrest. What about anarchist element and violent protests first in Greece and now in France? It seems that many people are tired and disillusioned with democratic systems. It's a bad sign.


Apparently there has been a holy war between Christians and Muslims for centuries. It just depends on who instigated the next chapter in that particular feud.

Terrorists are dangerous in any capacity. Muslim, protestant, whatever they call themselves they're out to stir shit up, plain and simple.

To suggest that religion or ideaology are NOT motivating factors in destructive behavior is plainly ludicrous. Man has always created his own gods and often commit atrocities because of there belief. Religion, faith, ideology...a rose by any other name, all of them readilyu serve as the basis of some of the worst acts in human history, or at the very least, a justification.

Political turmoil is nothing new. Governments and countries change hands and systems of rule almost overnight these days. The "sign" it shows is a shift in power, wether through violence or social change. That's all.

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#436058 - 10/24/10 09:21 AM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: anna]
JayLucif Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 11/09/02
Posts: 1705
Loc: Helheim
Originally Posted By: anna
Perhaps there will be some holy war between Christians and Muslims. There is a huge gap between the western world and Arabic countries.


There is no doubt from me there will be in some form or another a Holy War, as they are competing organized religions looking for the same converts. Competing religions always end up in armed conflict, this is unavoidable at least those looking to use religion to murder and kill.

Originally Posted By: anna
Muslim terrorists are dangerous. As regards radical Protestants in America, if they believe that they will be literally "kidnapped" to heaven, it is, certainly, ridiculous. I only wonder what atrocities they commit except holding a different opinion. I know that shouting rubbish in the streets can be irritating but it's a side effect of democracy that we have to put up with.


Terrorists of any strip are dangerous be it religious-Jewish, Muslim, Xian, Political, Economical, Socially Inspired Terrorists, and just the random violent terrorist act. They are all dangerous.

Originally Posted By: anna
The overwhelming desire to destroy everything has nothing to do with any religion or ideology, but with human nature. People tend to turn into monsters from time to time, regardless of ideas or beliefs they hold.


To some extent you are correct large groups of People of any strip can be destructive. Although Organized Religious inspired hatred, racism, and the fear of the dark and moving shadows is 90% of the cases lay at the feet of Organized religion and it's leadership.

Originally Posted By: anna
We don't know when and how the world will end. Irresponsible politicians can speed it up, so can social unrest. What about anarchist element and violent protests first in Greece and now in France? It seems that many people are tired and disillusioned with democratic systems. It's a bad sign.


False we can make an educated guess when the world might end as long as 1- some random universal event such as a collision of this Solar system with another Solar system does not happen and the Earth is totally obliterated in multiple world collisions. 2- a very large asteroid does not slam into the Earth and create an extinction level event. 3- Our Solar system does not get hit by a very close by Gamma Ray burst which has been observed happening in the Universe. 4- that Quantum mechanics along with M - theory/string theory does not really allow for some odd event to happen with this Universal dimension colliding with another Universal dimension, meaning the M membranes or P-branes could collide or ripple into each Dimension causing wave ripples into both dimensions which would result in plausible damage to already existing planets and solar systems, as M - theory allows for Multiple dimensions to coexist at the same moment and in the same space time as many as possibly 12, and a multiple dimension collisions is theoretically possible. If none of these theoretically things do not happen, scientists can make an educated guess of when the End of the World might come which is probable several billions of Earth time years from now.

As for the events taking place in Greece and France being as this is political, and we are not allowed to discuss politics upstairs. You will just have to assume and make up your own mind as to the causes. Although these anarchists events, the wanton random destruction of personal property and clashing with police is hardly the sign of the end times. There have always been violent political unrest, which has only seemed to be growing worse at least since the 1960's which started with the U.S./Western European counter culture movements, and has only seemed to be getting more violent and destructive because of the TV airplay. As Reverend Marilyn Manson stated the "Times have not become more violent. They have just become more televised." Stop watching TV or reading the mass media news, watch and observe every day the daily movements of people and you will see what you have been lied to about from the mass news media, and what is really true going on in the world. The TV is the new God of the people. The One eyed Cyclops.

Edit reason: post correction


Edited by JayLucif (10/24/10 09:24 AM)
_________________________
------------------------------------------------------------

Freedom, baby is never having to say you're sorry. Guilt is like a bag of fuckin' bricks. All ya gotta do is set it down. John Milton - The Devil's Advocate!

I'm gonna pull the whole thing down. I'm gonna bring the whole fuckin' diseased, corrupt temple down on your head. It's gonna be biblical. Clyde Shelton - Law Abiding Citizen!


------------------------------------------------------------

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#436068 - 10/24/10 12:16 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: inky]
anna Offline


Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 219
Loc: Poland
Originally Posted By: inky
To suggest that religion or ideaology are NOT motivating factors in destructive behavior is plainly ludicrous. Man has always created his own gods and often commit atrocities because of there belief. Religion, faith, ideology...a rose by any other name, all of them readilyu serve as the basis of some of the worst acts in human history, or at the very least, a justification.


To some extent I agree with you. Certainly, any religion or ideology can cause conflicts. It is also true that people have always needed some kind of religion or ideology. The world without religion is hard to imagine, if people get rid of religion some utopian ideology takes its place, be it communism, national socialism or anything else. Even atheism is a religion, especially its branch, secular humanism. This is why they need rituals, I bet that in the near future they will start building their own temples.

I see a positive side of all religions and mythologies as they cause the development of culture and civilisation. I see the cause of all the conflicts mainly in human character, in their animalistic instincts that are very often outside control. Religion is only a pretext.

Imagine there are no wars, no crimes, no social conflicts. This would be the world without humans.
_________________________
Just gonna stand there and watch me burn. Well that's alright because I like the way it hurts.

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#436071 - 10/24/10 12:39 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: anna]
Lust Offline


Registered: 11/02/05
Posts: 4214
"Imagine there are no wars, no crimes, no social conflicts. This would be the world without humans."

Bullshit!


_________________________
�Love is one of the most intense feelings felt by man; another is hate. Forcing yourself to feel indiscriminate love is very unnatural. If you try to love everyone you only lessen your feelings for those who deserve your love. Repressed hatred can lead to many physical and emotional aliments. By learning to release your hatred towards those who deserve it, you cleanse yourself of these malignant emotions and need not take your pent-up hatred out on your loved ones.�
Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible

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#436076 - 10/24/10 01:07 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: Lust]
anna Offline


Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 219
Loc: Poland
This is only one side of the coin. Here is the other one

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Just gonna stand there and watch me burn. Well that's alright because I like the way it hurts.

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#436081 - 10/24/10 01:20 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: anna]
Riddles Offline


Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 82
Loc: Maryland
Originally Posted By: anna
Originally Posted By: inky
To suggest that religion or ideaology are NOT motivating factors in destructive behavior is plainly ludicrous. Man has always created his own gods and often commit atrocities because of there belief. Religion, faith, ideology...a rose by any other name, all of them readilyu serve as the basis of some of the worst acts in human history, or at the very least, a justification.


To some extent I agree with you.


I'm surprised you would even need to add the "to some extent" qualifier. The original quote was the unholy truth.

Originally Posted By: anna

It is also true that people have always needed some kind of religion or ideology.


This sounds oddly similar to something I read in the Satanic Bible. coopdevil

Originally Posted By: anna

The world without religion is hard to imagine, if people get rid of religion some utopian ideology takes its place, be it communism, national socialism or anything else.


Exactly. This is why people label things like Maoism as religion. I don't think I would quite call it a religion, but it is clear that the latent masochist inside of so many humans will find its master in almost any circumstance. There's surely a reason Kim Jung Il's devotees don't need religion. They already get a full dose of submissiveness to their "god".

Originally Posted By: anna

Even atheism is a religion, especially its branch, secular humanism. This is why they need rituals, I bet that in the near future they will start building their own temples.


Atheism by itself is not a religion. I think it would be more accurate to say that atheism can be treated like a religion, or at least simple dogmatism. Some atheists are very dogmatic about their beliefs.

Originally Posted By: anna

I see a positive side of all religions and mythologies as they cause the development of culture and civilisation. I see the cause of all the conflicts mainly in human character, in their animalistic instincts that are very often outside control. Religion is only a pretext.


There's a positive side to just about anything. But if you have a serial killer (like religion) on trial, I'm not wasting my time pointing those things out.

In our "animalistic instincts"? Sure, that is a cause for much conflict (and often the kind of conflict that serves a productive purpose). But it is the very "unnatural" inclinations of man that makes him "the most vicious animal of all." Religion is more than just a pretext.

Originally Posted By: Tier Instinct
"Imagine there are no wars, no crimes, no social conflicts. This would be the world without humans."

Bullshit!



Don't forget about the infamous ant wars. No social conflicts? Check out gorillas, wolves, anything pack-based...


Edited by Riddles (10/24/10 01:21 PM)
_________________________
"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first."
--Mark Twain

"Egoism is the very essence of a noble soul."
--Friedrich Nietzsche

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#436089 - 10/24/10 02:11 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: anna]
inky Offline


Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 103
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: anna


To some extent I agree with you. Certainly, any religion or ideology can cause conflicts. It is also true that people have always needed some kind of religion or ideology. The world without religion is hard to imagine, if people get rid of religion some utopian ideology takes its place, be it communism, national socialism or anything else. Even atheism is a religion, especially its branch, secular humanism. This is why they need rituals, I bet that in the near future they will start building their own temples.

I see a positive side of all religions and mythologies as they cause the development of culture and civilisation. I see the cause of all the conflicts mainly in human character, in their animalistic instincts that are very often outside control. Religion is only a pretext.

Imagine there are no wars, no crimes, no social conflicts. This would be the world without humans.


Anything can become a religion. It's easy to relate a driving force in anyone's life as some kind of worship, again, a rose by any other name, regardless of how it's defined.

If any sect of humans decided to build a temple it would most likely be for the tax breaks.

Religion and mythologies aren't the only driving force in development. As you've said, and I stated earlier, they are a pretext, or atleast a justification.

Seeing the positive side doesn't negate the means employed to acquire the result. Take Hilter for example. Widely considered one of the most evil men in history...was also a vegetarian and had a fonderance for Disney movies. No one has judged him by what he thought of Mickey Mouse. Actions, instead of ideaology, were what was considered.

All this really boils down to the duality of human nature, but as the old saying goes, "No one remembers what you did right."

No wars, crimes, or social conflicts? Are you serious? All three things could be readily applied to a family of apes or a pack of wolves. A war over territory, something snuck in and stole all the food, the alpha and the beta don't get along and constantly fight over control of the pack. Humans just took these ideas to the nth level and made them global. A lack of humans wouldn't stop any of these things.

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#436114 - 10/24/10 04:23 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: anna]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
Quote:
I see a positive side of all religions and mythologies as they cause the development of culture and civilisation.


Some religions are so hell bent on going backwards. Christianity being one of them. Civilization survives through adaptation and change.
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#436129 - 10/24/10 05:46 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: LordofDarkness]
munt Offline


Registered: 09/13/10
Posts: 23
Loc: Land of viscosity
Unfortunately the world is now ending on 21st oct 2011.

[url=ebiblefellowship,.com/may21/index.html]ebiblefellowship.com/may21/index.html

Apparently we will be surrounded by the bodies of billions of resurrected, unsaved individuals for five months.
Might be a stink over this.
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Existence consumes time.

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#436132 - 10/24/10 05:50 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: munt]
Riddles Offline


Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 82
Loc: Maryland
Originally Posted By: munt
Unfortunately the world is now ending on 21st oct 2011.

[url=ebiblefellowship,.com/may21/index.html]ebiblefellowship.com/may21/index.html

Apparently we will be surrounded by the bodies of billions of resurrected, unsaved individuals for five months.
Might be a stink over this.





Ah, crap. There goes all my plans. wink
_________________________
"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first."
--Mark Twain

"Egoism is the very essence of a noble soul."
--Friedrich Nietzsche

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#436141 - 10/24/10 07:23 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: LordofDarkness]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12982
Loc: The Solid State
Originally Posted By: inky

Terrorists are dangerous in any capacity. Muslim, protestant, whatever they call themselves they're out to stir shit up, plain and simple.


Wholeheartedly agreed--however, I am concerned about the particular threat Islamic terrorists pose at the moment, because, increasingly, it seems as if one cannot speak as candidly about one's concerns and fears around Islamofascism, without either being told to hush up before we all get killed, or being accused to being anti-Muslim.

See: South Park; the firing of Juan Williams from NPR.

Otherwise, yes, when you're talking about any and every type of extremist imaginable, you're talking about a rose by any other name.

Originally Posted By: anna
The world without religion is hard to imagine, if people get rid of religion some utopian ideology takes its place, be it communism, national socialism or anything else.


Precisely. Human beings will always require some means of discovering purpose and creating meaning in their lives, and some means of organizing themselves, each other, and their world.

Quote:
I see a positive side of all religions and mythologies as they cause the development of culture and civilisation.


Yes, religions and myths have often been the inspiration for artistic, scientific, and technological advancement and refinement throughout human history--though, to be sure, other sources of inspiration also exist, and religion and myths have sometimes inspired people to flee or suppress advancement or progress, as well. It's a double-edged sword.

Quote:
I see the cause of all the conflicts mainly in human character, in their animalistic instincts that are very often outside control.


Yes--but, remember, these instincts have also helped us to survive and thrive throughout the ages. Those instincts are the reason we as individuals and we as a species are here today. Another double-edged sword.

And, if animal instincts are the tinder, then ideology is, in many cases, the spark that lights the fire.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#436143 - 10/24/10 07:40 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: munt]
Machismo Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/05/10
Posts: 1132
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: munt
Apparently we will be surrounded by the bodies of billions of resurrected, unsaved individuals for five months.
Might be a stink over this.


Yes. Quite the stink.


Attachments
zombies.jpg


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#436145 - 10/24/10 08:45 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: TrojZyr]
anna Offline


Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 219
Loc: Poland
Originally Posted By: TrojZyr
Yes, religions and myths have often been the inspiration for artistic, scientific, and technological advancement and refinement throughout human history--though, to be sure, other sources of inspiration also exist, and religion and myths have sometimes inspired people to flee or suppress advancement or progress, as well. It's a double-edged sword


Of course every religion and ideology can be used to create and to destroy. Even benign religion can be a dangerous weapon in the hands of ruthless people, this is why we have terrorist attacks.

Some cults are, however by their nature more dangerous than others, for example, apocaliptic sects that encourage their followers to commit suicide.
_________________________
Just gonna stand there and watch me burn. Well that's alright because I like the way it hurts.

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#436160 - 10/25/10 01:11 AM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: munt]
inky Offline


Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 103
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: munt
Unfortunately the world is now ending on 21st oct 2011.

[url=ebiblefellowship,.com/may21/index.html]ebiblefellowship.com/may21/index.html

Apparently we will be surrounded by the bodies of billions of resurrected, unsaved individuals for five months.
Might be a stink over this.





Judgement day is 4 days after my birthday? Pfft, then I'm having one hell of a birthday party. Groucho Marx made the best toast possible for that kind of situation..."Here's to hell. May the stay there be as fun as the way there."

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#436161 - 10/25/10 01:28 AM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: munt]
Delta Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/18/07
Posts: 6747
Loc: Nar
Best part:

Originally Posted By: Christian Idiots
1988 AD—This year ended the church age and began the great tribulation period of 23 years (13,000 years from creation).


Because the last 22 years have been SOOOOO hard on Christianity. vomit
_________________________




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#436179 - 10/25/10 09:23 AM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: Riddles]
LordofDarkness Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 756
Loc: Tennessee, U.S.
Originally Posted By: Riddles
Originally Posted By: munt
Unfortunately the world is now ending on 21st oct 2011.

[url=ebiblefellowship,.com/may21/index.html]ebiblefellowship.com/may21/index.html

Apparently we will be surrounded by the bodies of billions of resurrected, unsaved individuals for five months.
Might be a stink over this.





Ah, crap. There goes all my plans. wink


I was planning on a field party for my birthday. I guess not. smile
_________________________

"Any group or collective, large or small, is only a number of individuals. A group can have no rights other than the rights of its individual members." - Ayn Rand

"Laws are there for a reason. You may not agree with them but you gotta obey them. Nobody wants to be in court." - Sonic the Hedgehog

"Satanism is not a white light religion; it is a religion of the flesh, the mundane, the carnal - all of which are ruled by Satan, the personification of the Left Hand Path." - Magus LaVey

"Test Everything, Believe Nothing." -

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#436181 - 10/25/10 09:50 AM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: LordofDarkness]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12982
Loc: The Solid State
Originally Posted By: anna

Some cults are, however by their nature more dangerous than others, for example, apocaliptic sects that encourage their followers to commit suicide.


Quite so. Some religions, sects, and cults, by virtue of their teachings, their organizational structure, or both, are either more likely to attract buggo people, or are more likely to encourage (or just fail to discourage) buggo behavior.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#436182 - 10/25/10 09:52 AM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: Delta]
LordofDarkness Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 756
Loc: Tennessee, U.S.
Quote:
7 BC—The year Jesus Christ was born (11,006 years from creation).

33 AD—The year Jesus Christ was crucified and the church age began (11,045 years from creation; 5023 calendar years from the flood).


This has always confused me. If this guy was born on 7 BC, and he lived for 33 years, then should 26 AD be his exact year of death?

Originally Posted By: 2 Thessalonians 1:8,9
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;


Sounds like to me this "end of the world tribulation" is because he is killing those who do not worship and obey him.

This leaves one simple yet crucial point; whatever this "God" is and by whatever name it has, it lacks the ability to give itself value. I guess the writers didn't think of that.


Edited by LordofDarkness (10/25/10 09:56 AM)
_________________________

"Any group or collective, large or small, is only a number of individuals. A group can have no rights other than the rights of its individual members." - Ayn Rand

"Laws are there for a reason. You may not agree with them but you gotta obey them. Nobody wants to be in court." - Sonic the Hedgehog

"Satanism is not a white light religion; it is a religion of the flesh, the mundane, the carnal - all of which are ruled by Satan, the personification of the Left Hand Path." - Magus LaVey

"Test Everything, Believe Nothing." -

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#436206 - 10/25/10 01:57 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: LordofDarkness]
anna Offline


Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 219
Loc: Poland
Originally Posted By: LordofDarkness
Quote:
7 BC—The year Jesus Christ was born (11,006 years from creation).

33 AD—The year Jesus Christ was crucified and the church age began (11,045 years from creation; 5023 calendar years from the flood).


This has always confused me. If this guy was born on 7 BC, and he lived for 33 years, then should 26 AD be his exact year of death?


I'm not sure, I think this is because later the day of His birth was counted as a year 0.

Originally Posted By: LordofDarkness
Originally Posted By: 2 Thessalonians 1:8,9
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;


Sounds like to me this "end of the world tribulation" is because he is killing those who do not worship and obey him.

This leaves one simple yet crucial point; whatever this "God" is and by whatever name it has, it lacks the ability to give itself value. I guess the writers didn't think of that.


The torment in flames is figurative. Mind, it was written by Christians, for whom eternal hell is simply life without God. It is not a punishment but a free choice. Only to the right or to the left can the path be taken, none to the centre. I've read it somewhere, a very wise sentence.
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#436211 - 10/25/10 02:57 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: anna]
Lamar Drummer Offline


Registered: 09/16/10
Posts: 133
Loc: Alabama
Originally Posted By: anna

The torment in flames is figurative. Mind, it was written by Christians, for whom eternal hell is simply life without God. It is not a punishment but a free choice. Only to the right or to the left can the path be taken, none to the centre. I've read it somewhere, a very wise sentence.


I've been confused on the Christian view of Hell. From where I live they shout that Hell is eternal unending punishment. Your saying that all Hell is, is life without God?
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#436213 - 10/25/10 03:10 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: Lamar Drummer]
anna Offline


Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 219
Loc: Poland
For sure. Punishment is a very subjective thing.
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#436227 - 10/25/10 05:45 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: LordofDarkness]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Quote:
This has always confused me. If this guy was born on 7 BC, and he lived for 33 years, then should 26 AD be his exact year of death?

There's no precise chronology regarding Jesus's birth or death.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus#Chronology
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#436262 - 10/26/10 08:43 AM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: reprobate]
LordofDarkness Offline
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Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 756
Loc: Tennessee, U.S.
Thank you for that response Reprobate. smile
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"Any group or collective, large or small, is only a number of individuals. A group can have no rights other than the rights of its individual members." - Ayn Rand

"Laws are there for a reason. You may not agree with them but you gotta obey them. Nobody wants to be in court." - Sonic the Hedgehog

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"Test Everything, Believe Nothing." -

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#436309 - 10/26/10 09:42 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: reprobate]
Lamar Drummer Offline


Registered: 09/16/10
Posts: 133
Loc: Alabama
Originally Posted By: reprobate
Quote:
This has always confused me. If this guy was born on 7 BC, and he lived for 33 years, then should 26 AD be his exact year of death?

There's no precise chronology regarding Jesus's birth or death.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus#Chronology


There is no precision to Jesus in general. Nope.
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#436319 - 10/27/10 12:30 AM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: Lamar Drummer]
ookiesoup Offline


Registered: 10/11/10
Posts: 28
Loc: N. Y. USA
devilchiliIt depends On how full the author's bong was at the time!
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#436359 - 10/27/10 02:01 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: reprobate]
inky Offline


Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 103
Loc: USA
There's really no empirical evidence regarding Jesus. Period.

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#436415 - 10/28/10 08:08 AM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: inky]
Lust Offline


Registered: 11/02/05
Posts: 4214
Some funny things about Jesus and how that myth relates with this thread.

Mark 13

13:29 So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.
13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done

Above we see that Jesus is a false prophet, since he predicts that the end of the world will come within the lifetimes of his disciples. The world of course didn't end then, and according to Ec.1:4 it never will end.

According to Ecclesiastes the earth will never end.

Ecclesiastes 1
1:4 One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.
Jesus contradicts this with the following from the book of Mark.

13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.


Edited by Tier Instinct (10/28/10 08:11 AM)
_________________________
�Love is one of the most intense feelings felt by man; another is hate. Forcing yourself to feel indiscriminate love is very unnatural. If you try to love everyone you only lessen your feelings for those who deserve your love. Repressed hatred can lead to many physical and emotional aliments. By learning to release your hatred towards those who deserve it, you cleanse yourself of these malignant emotions and need not take your pent-up hatred out on your loved ones.�
Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible

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#436426 - 10/28/10 10:45 AM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: Lust]
inky Offline


Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 103
Loc: USA
Intersting.

With respect Tier, I really don't count the christian bible or any such tome as empirical evidence.

It's like trying to prove that the easter bunny exists using a bed-time story.

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#436443 - 10/28/10 04:23 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: Lust]
Lamar Drummer Offline


Registered: 09/16/10
Posts: 133
Loc: Alabama
Originally Posted By: Tier Instinct
Some funny things about Jesus and how that myth relates with this thread.

Mark 13

13:29 So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.
13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done

Above we see that Jesus is a false prophet, since he predicts that the end of the world will come within the lifetimes of his disciples. The world of course didn't end then, and according to Ec.1:4 it never will end.

According to Ecclesiastes the earth will never end.

Ecclesiastes 1
1:4 One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.
Jesus contradicts this with the following from the book of Mark.

13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.


At the end there, "Heavean and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away," I don't think Jesus meant the earth literally will pass away but rather we shall pass away. Thats my asumption anyway, listening to local pastors preach about the matter, that is how they make it sound.

Not that I believe that the bible is the literal word of Jaysus.
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#436457 - 10/28/10 06:42 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: inky]
Lust Offline


Registered: 11/02/05
Posts: 4214
Originally Posted By: inky
Intersting.

With respect Tier, I really don't count the christian bible or any such tome as empirical evidence.

It's like trying to prove that the easter bunny exists using a bed-time story.


What? I was only pointing out that the "man" so many call, the christ, could not correctly predict the end of the world; according to the holy scripture. However or whatever that may mean to others. Oh nevermind. witch
_________________________
�Love is one of the most intense feelings felt by man; another is hate. Forcing yourself to feel indiscriminate love is very unnatural. If you try to love everyone you only lessen your feelings for those who deserve your love. Repressed hatred can lead to many physical and emotional aliments. By learning to release your hatred towards those who deserve it, you cleanse yourself of these malignant emotions and need not take your pent-up hatred out on your loved ones.�
Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible

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#436464 - 10/28/10 08:23 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: Lust]
anna Offline


Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 219
Loc: Poland

The only thing I like on the side you posted is this picture. It's fantastic.
Quote:
Above we see that Jesus is a false prophet, since he predicts that the end of the world will come within the lifetimes of his disciples

Not the end of the world but the calamities like wars, persecutions and so on. They happen all te time. Also for every man death is the end of the world.
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#436466 - 10/28/10 08:27 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: Lust]
inky Offline


Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 103
Loc: USA
Oh no, I understood what you were getting at. I was just taking a swipe at the validity of the christian bible as a whole. Particularly that there's no scientific evidence to support any of it. That's all.

I've read christian scripture to great extent and became so disgusted with it that I simply don't except it in any mode of conversation.

I admit I probably could have written my post a different way. Apologies if it was misunderstood.

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#436627 - 10/30/10 11:31 AM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: inky]
Tenebrae Offline


Registered: 10/30/10
Posts: 6
Loc: Virginia
Hello. I have been lurking here for a while, but I seldom participate in online forums. This thread, however, has given me a lot to ponder and has inspired me to step out of the shadows and share my thoughts. My apologies if what I post below is not as interesting as I think it is and I am merely connecting the dots and restating what has already been implied.

I know the thread has moved on to the subject of the timeline of Jesus, but two contradictory thoughts in this thread got me thinking. The first is that theology inspires war and genocide. The second is that war and genocide is not the sole creation of man, but the animal kingdom as well.

The conclusion I draw from this is that man's war against man is natural, neither good nor evil. And nature, keeping things simple, has very basic motivations for war. Maybe I'm reducing things too far, but the motivations of war are the acquisition of another group's territory or resources, or the defense thereof. Nothing more.

However, we, being an "enlightened" animal, can't be that simplistic. While the instigators of war may know the true motivations you need something more "meaningful" to inspire others to pick up weapons or strap bombs to themselves and do the dirty work for you. Enter theology. By convincing your armies that God is on their side and they will be rewarded in heaven your forces can be inspired to commit all manner of atrocities, and never complain if and when victorious that they didn't receive their fair share of the spoils.

To say anything more would be too political, if I haven't gone too far already. Just my two cents.

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#436635 - 10/30/10 01:53 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: Tenebrae]
anna Offline


Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 219
Loc: Poland
Quote:
My apologies if what I post below is not as interesting as I think it is and I am merely connecting the dots and restating what has already been implied.

It is interesting, why not?

Quote:
The conclusion I draw from this is that man's war against man is natural, neither good nor evil. And nature, keeping things simple, has very basic motivations for war. Maybe I'm reducing things too far, but the motivations of war are the acquisition of another group's territory or resources, or the defense thereof. Nothing more.

However, we, being an "enlightened" animal, can't be that simplistic.

Of course we are more developed than, for example, ants. And although we are sometimes driven by animalistic instincts we have reason so we can make choices, therefore our actions can be judged either good or evil whereas animals are above any moral judgement. Animals kill for food or territory, humans often kill simply for the fun of it.

Quote:
By convincing your armies that God is on their side and they will be rewarded in heaven your forces can be inspired to commit all manner of atrocities, and never complain if and when victorious that they didn't receive their fair share of the spoils.

True but God is a very general term. What about power and money? They are also gods. These gods have always been the most worshipped.
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#436646 - 10/30/10 04:28 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: Lust]
Nahash Prince Offline



Registered: 01/15/03
Posts: 197
Loc: Currently at large
If you apply hermeneutics to the words of Jesus, you would actual find out that he was correct. Giving the time, space and place of his and their world. To the Jews, their world has ended within their generation according to their history.

It ended in 70 A.D. when the Romans invaded Israel. Their heaven and their earth indeed passed away. The words of Jesus echoed in their minds after the Romans invaded. Even today the words of Jesus have been a constant reminder of their world that was, then was not and now is.

As for the Jews of the pass in Jesus’ generation, history teaches that their world has ended while Jesus’ words did not. His teachings continued even to this present day. He had the ability to objectively look around him and assess current events which would give him a reasonable prediction. This is being done today, by governments and military forces. However, that doesn’t make Jesus or those “Immortal God-Creator”; gods that can die, yes.

His teachings have always been misunderstood from his time to this present day. Perhaps there was something else about this Jesus that only a few understood. The book of John certainly hints to it. But that something I will not go into detail. I would prefer to stick to the historical facts here.

Cross-referencing Jewish and Greek words can bring a better understanding in part. However, world history has to fit. I don’t think there was a contradiction with Jesus and the Tanakh. Given the fact that he and those he was speaking to understood, Earth and earth, World and world and Reality and reality. Hermeneutically and historically speaking, this Jesus was correct. But there isn’t enough evidence about him for me to call him a God-Man.




Edited by Youngwolf (10/30/10 04:31 PM)
_________________________
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those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his "divine spiritual and intellectual
development", has become the most vicious animal of all!"...Dr. La Vey

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#436648 - 10/30/10 05:08 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: Nahash Prince]
munt Offline


Registered: 09/13/10
Posts: 23
Loc: Land of viscosity
To clarify, are you implying that jesus and the bible are legitimate?
Applying hermeneutics to the bible caused the origin of this thread.
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#436658 - 10/30/10 08:16 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: Nahash Prince]
anna Offline


Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 219
Loc: Poland
Quote:
If you apply hermeneutics to the words of Jesus, you would actual find out that he was correct. Giving the time, space and place of his and their world. To the Jews, their world has ended within their generation according to their history.

It ended in 70 A.D. when the Romans invaded Israel. Their heaven and their earth indeed passed away. The words of Jesus echoed in their minds after the Romans invaded. Even today the words of Jesus have been a constant reminder of their world that was, then was not and now is.

This could be another possible interpratation.

Anyway even in the Bible we don't have the exact date of the end of the world. Well, I don't know the whole Bible by heart, but as far as I remember, it says that only God knows when the world ends.

Therefore you also be ready; for the Son of man will come in that very hour which you do not expect. (Luke 12:40)
And if you do not awake, I will come against you as a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come on you. (Revelation 3:3)


Edited by anna (10/30/10 08:16 PM)
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#436716 - 10/31/10 10:22 AM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: munt]
Nahash Prince Offline



Registered: 01/15/03
Posts: 197
Loc: Currently at large
Greetings munt. Just as magick is real, there are other things just as legitimate. It depends. However this is not the place to go into details. I was simply responding to another. I do not want to leave you hanging. But I would perfer that we move on to another topic as to say it would be better.
_________________________
"Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than
those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his "divine spiritual and intellectual
development", has become the most vicious animal of all!"...Dr. La Vey

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#436718 - 10/31/10 10:25 AM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: anna]
Nahash Prince Offline



Registered: 01/15/03
Posts: 197
Loc: Currently at large
Anna, read my responding post to munt.
_________________________
"Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than
those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his "divine spiritual and intellectual
development", has become the most vicious animal of all!"...Dr. La Vey

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#436723 - 10/31/10 10:45 AM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: anna]
TheDegenerate Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 3567
Loc: Cowtown
Originally Posted By: anna

Of course we are more developed than, for example, ants. And although we are sometimes driven by animalistic instincts we have reason so we can make choices, therefore our actions can be judged either good or evil whereas animals are above any moral judgement. Animals kill for food or territory, humans often kill simply for the fun of it.


Our actions are not "judged" by anyone. And good and evil are nothing more than false generalizations, and concepts that were man made to begin with. What is good, and what is evil has changed significantly throughout the course of history, and it is usually dictated by a political regime.

Humans are not the only animals that commit certain deeds for pleasure, either. Dolphins are well known to have sex for pleasure, and to have personalities which facilitate rudeness and bullying, and I am sure it goes even further beyond that. Humans are not as unique as many would think them to be, and this argument when used in favor to support religious belief is such tiresome bullshit, I can't fathom why religious nuts even bother anymore.

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#436746 - 10/31/10 05:21 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: TheDegenerate]
anna Offline


Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 219
Loc: Poland
Quote:
Our actions are not "judged" by anyone.


Of course they are judged. Even if you think you're not judged by God, you are certainly judged by other people. Also we, ourselves, as civilised people have the ability to make judgements and predict the consequences of our behaviour.

Quote:
And good and evil are nothing more than false generalizations, and concepts that were man made to begin with. What is good, and what is evil has changed significantly throughout the course of history, and it is usually dictated by a political regime.


This is only partly true. The concept of good and evil certainly changed throughout the times and people follow various moral codes depending on their culture, religion and social background. However there are still some actions which are considered good or evil by all the sane people regardless of their political or religious views. Looking after one's children is generally thought to be a good behaviour, and although there are various ways in which parents bring up their children (better or worse), slaughtering babies is unacceptable even in the most primitive cultures. And no sane adult person with some knowledge of history would say that Josef Stalin was a decent guy and what he did was a pure virtue.

Quote:
Dolphins are well known to have sex for pleasure, and to have personalities which facilitate rudeness and bullying, and I am sure it goes even further beyond that.


The Nazis murdered millions of people just for pure sadistic pleasure. I'm not very good at biology, I can hardly find an animal which slaughters a big number of other animals just for fun. But perhaps there are some, I won't argue.

Quote:
I can't fathom why religious nuts even bother anymore.


I don't think I'm a nut but if your diagnosis is true then you are one of few sane people in this world asylum for looneys and it is hard life here.
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#436747 - 10/31/10 05:37 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: anna]
Delta Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/18/07
Posts: 6747
Loc: Nar
Originally Posted By: anna
The Nazis murdered millions of people just for pure sadistic pleasure. I'm not very good at biology, I can hardly find an animal which slaughters a big number of other animals just for fun.


The Nazis killed for self preservation, for territory and for ethnic purposes. Animals do all of these. People do kill for pleasure, and perhaps in quantity this is one of those times the two legged animals are "lesser" than the four legged variety, but watch a cat play with a mouse. Sexual connotations of the word and the scope of their destruction aside, this is as true a kind of sadism as I can imagine.

PS I'm still interested in your response concerning anything Hitler did to make him unchristian...
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#436753 - 10/31/10 06:18 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: anna]
Zaftig Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 3406
Quote:
Looking after one's children is generally thought to be a good behaviour, and although there are various ways in which parents bring up their children (better or worse), slaughtering babies is unacceptable even in the most primitive cultures.


There were and are cultures that leave deformed or ill babies to exposure, allowing them to die from starvation. This was and is done because they do not have access to modern medicines, and keeping such a child alive would sometimes endanger the larger group. Imagine small agricultural villages that are directly dependent on everyone contributing with their physical labour. Even if they could keep alive a deformed child, that child's caretaker is no longer contributing, so there are now 2 people that drain resources, instead of aiding in production of some sort.

We in the modern age find this cruel, but it was and is simply a matter of survival when it's necessary.

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#436754 - 10/31/10 06:19 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: Delta]
TheDegenerate Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 3567
Loc: Cowtown
Originally Posted By: Delta
Originally Posted By: anna
The Nazis murdered millions of people just for pure sadistic pleasure. I'm not very good at biology, I can hardly find an animal which slaughters a big number of other animals just for fun.


The Nazis killed for self preservation, for territory and for ethnic purposes. Animals do all of these. People do kill for pleasure, and perhaps in quantity this is one of those times the two legged animals are "lesser" than the four legged variety, but watch a cat play with a mouse. Sexual connotations of the word and the scope of their destruction aside, this is as true a kind of sadism as I can imagine.

PS I'm still interested in your response concerning anything Hitler did to make him unchristian...


Exactly. It wasn't "Jew slaughter fun time" in Nazi Germany, there was a specific political agenda that lead up to that point, just as in many other genocides which you failed to point out in lieu of your "Raiders of the Lost Ark" stereotyping of Nazi Germany.

Also, I don't have a problem assuming 90 percent of the world is insane. I already believe that 90 percent of the world is made up of a bunch of morons, and since faith and belief is such a prevelant idea among them, it is not a stretch of the imagination to think they might be lunatics as well. In fact, I'd make a bet on it. It may be a bit unfair to call anyone with spiritual belief crazy; but hey, speaking of judgement, I'll agree with you there. We are being judged by everyone around us, but I hoped it was clear in the context I was using it, that I was referring to invisible spiritual deities (in which case, there is definitely no judgement going on.)

Also there have been cases of culturual euthenasia going far back in human history, so even your theory of "baby killing" always being morally wrong is also incorrect. We have also been sacrificing humans just as long as we have been sacrificing goats in the name of appeasing invisible giant heads, and you can't honestly tell me there weren't a few young virgins thrown in that mix. Our moral violence only seems to be restricted by what insane bullshit we believe in, and it is truly impressive to see the horrors human beings are capable of, ESPECIALLY in the face of the overwhelming disease known as "belief."

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#436765 - 10/31/10 07:30 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: Delta]
anna Offline


Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 219
Loc: Poland
Quote:
The Nazis killed for self preservation, for territory and for ethnic purposes


This is what they were saying to justify their actions. We tend to rationalize human violence, but sometimes it is inexplicable. I'm sure that people often murder and torture because they simply like it.

Quote:
PS I'm still interested in your response concerning anything Hitler did to make him unchristian...


If you want to know my opinion...Everything except his fancy for the opera.
_________________________
Just gonna stand there and watch me burn. Well that's alright because I like the way it hurts.

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#436768 - 10/31/10 08:19 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: anna]
Original Sly Offline


Registered: 09/10/09
Posts: 205
Loc: New Zealand
Quote:
We tend to rationalize human violence, but sometimes it is inexplicable.


I'll agree with this statement, but not with the context in which you've used it. Nazi Germany's programme of extermination was not an inexplicable act of violence. It had many causes which we can identify.

At the very least, the Jews had been scapegoated in Europe for centuries before lil' ol' Hitler came along. Blood libel, Host desecration, well-poisoning, refusal to accept the "truth" of Christianity and the divinity of Jesus Christ, bringers of pestilence and plague, there were many accusations levelled at Jews, and truth or fantasy they all led to pogroms and explusion/execution at one time or another.

So the scapegoating of Jews that manifested in Nazi Germany was not an inexplicable act of human violence. It had precedents throughout the centuries in Europe. Calling something "inexplicable" is sometimes just an indicator of laziness and unwillingness to find an answer... which is generally quite a common thread for Christians who refuse to seek answers and use the "God of the Gaps" to explain things.
_________________________
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#436811 - 11/01/10 08:14 AM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: anna]
TheDegenerate Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 3567
Loc: Cowtown
Originally Posted By: anna
Quote:
The Nazis killed for self preservation, for territory and for ethnic purposes


This is what they were saying to justify their actions. We tend to rationalize human violence, but sometimes it is inexplicable. I'm sure that people often murder and torture because they simply like it.

Quote:
PS I'm still interested in your response concerning anything Hitler did to make him unchristian...


If you want to know my opinion...Everything except his fancy for the opera.


Do you honestly believe that the entire Nazi party was simply a faceless evil empire hell bent to do nothing more than kill and torture people simply for "the fun" of it, and that every other reason for committing genocide was simply a front for their collective blood lust? It doesn't surprise me to hear yet another person prattle on about this tripe while simultaneously ignoring many of the greater atrocities that have been committed throughout history, especially those done in the name of the god they so readily believe in.

Hitler and the Nazi's were saints in comparison to the violent, twisted history of Christians and Catholics who essentially ruled the world with an iron fist, systematically destroying everything in their path to make way for their brand of psychotic fanatacism, so I find it very ironic that a Christian can sit there and make generalizations about who is "evil", when ideas like god, faith and belief are responsible for the continued death, molestation, and torture of millions of innocent people. Genocide seems like peanuts in comparison really, and I can think of at least one genocide which was about on the level of the holocaust which nobody mentions because it's much harder to equate it to a super villain-like force which can be blamed and pidgeonholed as "evil" without really understanding what it was all about.

But hey, that's just me. I am no apologist, and I tend to read a lot of history books. The Nazi's had a fucking tea party compared to the collective insanity of the rest of the human race, so it seems a bit unfair to single them out. And sadly, most of this insanity stems from some kind of idealism, usually one of religious proportions.

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#436812 - 11/01/10 09:19 AM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: anna]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11532
Loc: New England, USA
Quote:
PS I'm still interested in your response concerning anything Hitler did to make him unchristian...

Originally Posted By: anna
If you want to know my opinion...Everything except his fancy for the opera.

I take it you've never read Mein Kampf?
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#436813 - 11/01/10 09:20 AM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: anna]
verszou Offline



Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 1812
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: anna

If you want to know my opinion...Everything except his fancy for the opera.


Interesting distinction, especially since the operas he is often associated with are based on norse pre-christian mythology. I am of course refering to "Der Ring des Nibelungen" by Richard Wagner. It is almost impossible to watch a WWII documentary without hearing at least the ride of the valkyries and the funeral march of Siegfried.

If you read the Wikipedia entry on Winifred Wagner, responsible for the Festspiele at the time ( at this link ) you will see that her beliefs are given as: "Like Hitler, Winifred Wagner believed profoundly in the rite of a secular cult of German nationalism, of Nordic self-realization, and völkisch aspiration"

Hardly christian values, so the one thing about Hitler you claim to be based on christianity is not, as opposed to the anti-semitism, which was well established years prior to Hitlers birth by .. tadaaaa! The Catholic church smile
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#436815 - 11/01/10 09:37 AM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: TheDegenerate]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11532
Loc: New England, USA
Originally Posted By: TheDegenerate
It doesn't surprise me to hear yet another person prattle on about this tripe while simultaneously ignoring many of the greater atrocities that have been committed throughout history, especially those done in the name of the god they so readily believe in.

I've seen it countless times myself. Long before Godwin's Law ("As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."), there was an old saying: the first person to bring up the Nazis in a debate, loses. I think there's certainly some truth to that, because the person first bringing up the Nazis is typically doing some cartoonish over-simplification of the Third Reich that leads to a non-sequitur. And of course, if you try pointing out this fallacy, you're a accused of being a Hitler sympathizer. Go figure.


Originally Posted By: TheDegenerate
Hitler and the Nazi's were saints in comparison to the violent, twisted history of Christians and Catholics who essentially ruled the world with an iron fist,


Reminds me of this bit from Doug Stanhope:



This is usually the point where the Jesus freaks try arguing by comparing numbers. "Oh [Hitler / Pol Pot / insert-20th-century dictator here] killed more people, therefore" blah blah blah. Of course, they conveniently overlook the changes in global population and technology. If medieval-period theocracies had 20th century transportation and weaponry, they obviously would have used it.
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#436819 - 11/01/10 10:06 AM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: anna]
Shade Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/08/06
Posts: 6133
Loc: A Trailer Park
Originally Posted By: anna
The Nazis murdered millions of people just for pure sadistic pleasure.


Even if that were the case (I'm not sure I'd describe what they did in that way), it’s not really unique to Nazis. A lot of different examples of this throughout history and today: rape campaigns, systematic disfigurement, sanctioned torture. Most of which is not recorded in official statistics.

Deliberate cruelty is part of the process of impersonalization, a process that’s very necessary component of war. How else are you going to convince normal everyday run-of-the-mill citizens to go out and kill total strangers? Soldiers don’t see other people on the battlefield, they see the nameless, the faceless (“they all look alike”). They see The Enemy. I don’t think that’s called sadism though. Usually it’s referred to as patriotism.

Cry 'Havoc!'...

(Aside: For some reason, I seem to remember Nazis not being the only ones who didn't like Jews.) Whoops, verszou already mentions this! blush


Edited by Shade (11/01/10 10:19 AM)
Edit Reason: hell is repetition...
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#436824 - 11/01/10 11:28 AM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: Original Sly]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12982
Loc: The Solid State
Originally Posted By: Original Sly

I'll agree with this statement, but not with the context in which you've used it. Nazi Germany's programme of extermination was not an inexplicable act of violence. It had many causes which we can identify.


It becomes even less inexplicable when you consider the Milgram Obedience Study and the Zimbardo Stanford Prison Study, and realize that perfectly normal, well-adjusted human beings will brutalize and torture other normal, well-adjusted human beings, simply because the authorities commanded it, or everyone else is doing it.

Factor in the long-standing prejudice against Jews, and it would've been more incredible and unbelievable if the Holocaust hadn't happened, at least somewhere, in some time.

Mob violence rarely manages to surprise or bemuse me. Forms of child and animal abuse, on the other hand, really do strike me as senseless and tragically inexplicable.
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#436830 - 11/01/10 12:09 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: TrojZyr]
verszou Offline



Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 1812
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: TrojZyr

Factor in the long-standing prejudice against Jews, and it would've been more incredible and unbelievable if the Holocaust hadn't happened, at least somewhere, in some time.




Looking at the history of Spinoza, one of the very prominent thinkers who helped bring us the age of enlightenment, there are a few good examples of this

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Spinoza

At the time the catholic church forced jews to convert to their faith (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Conversos). Note:

"The conversos did not enjoy legal equality. Alfonso VII prohibited the "recently converted" from holding office in Toledo."

Wonder where they got the idea for the Nuremberg laws.

"they became targets of occasional pogroms during times of extreme social tension (as during an epidemic and after an earthquake.) They were subject to the Spanish and Portuguese inquisitions."

Which is of course very different from the third reich, and could in n way have inspired anything wink

Of course the position of the chief exorcist of the catholic church, a man who claims to have performed so many exorcisms that normal logical reasoning would deem it physically impossible for him to do, claims that the entire German people were possessed by the devil. Which comes in quite handy if one wants to tone down what happened when it turns out that the guy that the Vatican backed ended up loosing the war (guess who gave the Vatican their special status ... Hitlers old pal Mussolini - the reason why their ex-Hitlerjugend-member leader today travels around like a head of state is that Mussolini gave them special recognition that was never revoked :)).
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#436855 - 11/01/10 08:00 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: TheDegenerate]
anna Offline


Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 219
Loc: Poland
Quote:
Hitler and the Nazi's were saints in comparison to the violent, twisted history of Christians and Catholics who essentially ruled the world with an iron fist, systematically destroying everything in their path to make way for their brand of psychotic fanatacism, so I find it very ironic that a Christian can sit there and make generalizations about who is "evil", when ideas like god, faith and belief are responsible for the continued death, molestation, and torture of millions of innocent people.


An interesting point of view, especially if you take into consideration the number of killed people, ruthless medical experiments, boiling people and making a soap from their fat, using their skin as a material for clothes and so on. Here, in Poland, there live some survivors of the concentration camps and I can assure you that they would be offended if somebody compared their horrifying experience to, for example, suffering of Indians at the hand of western missionaries.

I don't justify the bloody holy inquisition, as some people are trying to do, but putting it in one line with the Nazi holocaust is simply laughable. The fact that the Medieval Church didn't have the modern means to murder more people is insignificant. Hitler could kill more people if he had some nuclear weapons but it's just an alternative history.

Quote:
I am no apologist, and I tend to read a lot of history books.


I like reading history books too, but unfortunately, many historians are unable to leave their political and religious prejudices behind while writing a book. Therefore, instead of presenting bare facts, they write long personal essays, where they twist the truth in favour of their subjective opinions.

For you every violence boils down to religion, but people are not that simple. You forget about Atheist crimes during French and Russian Revolution. In fact, you could compare the Nazis to French revolutionists. They literally tore up innocent people to pieces and used to skin them to make clothes.

In my opinion, it is naive to think that people would be better if they didn't believe in anything. They would be as aggressive and cruel as they have always been. Many twist religion so that it suits their interests and others worship money, power, their ambitions which are also gods.

P.S. I know who Richard Wagner was. I have a big respect for artists, no matter what their religious views are and I value art, christian or not, as something that enriches our lives. However, it is only my personal opinion.
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#436858 - 11/01/10 08:44 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: anna]
Original Sly Offline


Registered: 09/10/09
Posts: 205
Loc: New Zealand
Quote:
You forget about Atheist crimes during French and Russian Revolution.


There are no such things as atheist crimes. Atheism denotes a lack of theistic belief, it's not a belief system itself. I repeat: Atheism denotes a lack of belief. A lack of .

There may have been anti-theist crimes. But anti-theism is not atheism. They're not the same thing at all.

It's so typical of theists to try to blame things on atheism. Your minds are so stunted and dependant upon your delusions that you can't comprehend a lack of those delusions.
_________________________
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#436861 - 11/01/10 09:54 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: anna]
Lamar Drummer Offline


Registered: 09/16/10
Posts: 133
Loc: Alabama
Originally Posted By: anna

For you every violence boils down to religion, but people are not that simple. You forget about Atheist crimes during French and Russian Revolution. In fact, you could compare the Nazis to French revolutionists. They literally tore up innocent people to pieces and used to skin them to make clothes.

In my opinion, it is naive to think that people would be better if they didn't believe in anything. They would be as aggressive and cruel as they have always been. Many twist religion so that it suits their interests and others worship money, power, their ambitions which are also gods.


The way I see it, the way that religionists and theists in general have acted I would advocate the skinning of them to make clothes.

And indeed that if people didn't believe in a deity or faith there would still be aggression and chaos, but perhaps people would be a little bit closer to honesty with themselves. But that said, I do not advocate by any means that no one should not believe in theism. Stratification will always play out, even by people deluding themselves.
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#436862 - 11/01/10 10:03 PM Anecdote and Question [Re: LordofDarkness]
Schadenfreude-6 Offline


Registered: 12/10/08
Posts: 120
Loc: MB, Canada.
The other day I got into a debate with someone about Capital Punishment. I believe that anyone found guilty beyond a reasonable double (DNA evidence, video proof etc) of murder that isn't committed in self defense, along with ANY rape or conviction of pedophilia or distribution of child pornography - should be snuffed out by the state, shot in the head with their family being sent a bill of the cost of the bullet - this is just how I feel.

This person was spouting the regular stuff, egalitarian "everyone is equal" and "all life has the same value" BS - they reasoned (if you want to call it that), that regardless of someones crime and no matter who they killed, how many they killed, or how they killed them, should just spend their life in prison (with us law abiding tax payers footing the bill for the remainder of that existance). That "under no circumstance should ANY government, state, or ruling body be able to take the life of another person regardless of any crime they have committed." I let them spout all this stuff, giving them more and more rope for what I knew would be an inevitable response...

I then asked them how they felt about Wolfram Sievers, they did not know who this person was, so I told them who he was along with sharing a Wikipedia article on him with why and how he died and after that, they back tracked, and changed their story, going against their original argument trying to explain why... I did not listen.


This person lives in Israel and is a practicing Jew - funny stuff, no?

So Anna, I am curious as you live in Poland - are you Jewish through blood or do you have family who died in the holocaust? Maybe this has something to do with your bias and popular opinion in the Nazis being nothing more than mindless blood hungry murderers because I know first hand that people usually feel differently about situations that have some kind of tie to them, be it personally or through family or ethnicity, race etc etc not that I really care, just curious... because that's the type of person I am.

Anyhow, continue the discussion folks, very interesting read.
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#436865 - 11/01/10 11:30 PM Re: Anecdote and Question [Re: Schadenfreude-6]
anna Offline


Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 219
Loc: Poland
No, I'm not Jewish and nobody from my family was put in a concentration camp. However, Poland and also other middle eastern countries, were an area of special Nazi activities. It was later that the western countries learned what was happening here.

So just to answer your questions, if you are a writer here, in Poland, and you write that the Nazis did no more than others did before, you will have to find a radical nationalist Christian publisher to publish your books, because nobody else will agree to do that. And you won't find your books in any major bookstores. If you are a journalist no newspaper will work with you, and if you are a professor, there is only one small university here, where you could present your original views about holocaust. Unfortunately, it is a Catholic one.

So to sum up, you would be ostracised here, as are some radical, nationalist, antisemitic Christians. And really they are such a shame that even the most conservative bishops blush and stammer, when called upon to explain their behaviour.
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#436867 - 11/02/10 01:14 AM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: anna]
verszou Offline



Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 1812
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: anna

For you every violence boils down to religion, but people are not that simple. You forget about Atheist crimes during French and Russian Revolution. In fact, you could compare the Nazis to French revolutionists. They literally tore up innocent people to pieces and used to skin them to make clothes.

In my opinion, it is naive to think that people would be better if they didn't believe in anything. They would be as aggressive and cruel as they have always been. Many twist religion so that it suits their interests and others worship money, power, their ambitions which are also gods.


This is actually a variation on a strawman argument, mixed up with a false dichotomy.

Since you cannot evade the factual ties between Nazi Germany and christianity you instead find examples where the leaders were atheist and use their crimes as an argument.

But if religious people kill their enemies in horrible ways and people without religion do the same thing, the only thing that proves is that religion does not add or subtract anything to the human nature.

On your list of crimes in the concentration camps I think you are mistaken about the use of human skin. As far as I know that one is a myth that has since been debunked. The Nazis weren't the only ones doing propaganda during the war.

I'm not bringing doubt to any of the others, but you seem very fixated on the flaying thing, so I'd like to point out that as can be seen from the list at this link ) that form of punishment is very ecumenical and cross-culture. The French revolution is not mentioned in there, so I wonder if you have a credible source for the claim that the revolutionaries "literally tore up innocent people to pieces and used to skin them to make clothes." I've not done any extensive reading on the French revolution, and what I've read focused more on the political parts. Of course indiscriminate use of the guillotine and the imprisoning in the Bastille are well known and not disputed, but skinning people is not normally listed as a practice in widespread use.
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#436909 - 11/02/10 03:57 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: verszou]
anna Offline


Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 219
Loc: Poland
Ok. You are right about this skin use being no more than a widespread myth. I've just rushed in and made a fool of myself without checking this thing.

Still, it can't be denied that the Nazis used to play with human bodies in the form of ruthless medical experiments and anatomic examinations. I'm really at a loss what made holocaust a Christian thing. That Hitler, in his madness, believed he was a pious Christian, doesn't mean he was one in reality.

Quote:
But if religious people kill their enemies in horrible ways and people without religion do the same thing, the only thing that proves is that religion does not add or subtract anything to the human nature.


And this is just what I'm trying to say. Everything boils down to human nature, a belief can make a person better but it doesn't have to. Every man has a free will and takes responsibility for his life. Religion can help you to be a good person but, in the end, it is what you do in your daily life that really matters.
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#436911 - 11/02/10 04:13 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: anna]
Delta Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/18/07
Posts: 6747
Loc: Nar
Originally Posted By: anna
the Nazis used to play with human bodies in the form of ruthless medical experiments and anatomic examinations


Play? You continue to display a total ignorance of motive. Games might have been played but medical experiments are hardly games. I know people from Poland who understand this so don't try to blame the media climate there as you did in post 436865. You're buying into cinematic delusions that even Holocaust Survivors don't buy into.

Originally Posted By: anna
I'm really at a loss what made holocaust a Christian thing.


Again you fail to understand the allegations. Regardless of Hitler's beliefs and the motives for the holocaust (And I haven't seen any claims here that the holocaust itself was motivated by Christianity, though Martin Luther might have thought otherwise I won't hold you to protestant ambitions, being Catholic and all) my allegation is that the holocaust was nothing new compared to Christian, specifically Catholic atrocities condoned and ordered by your infallible Popery.

Originally Posted By: anna
That Hitler, in his madness, believed he was a pious Christian, doesn't mean he was one in reality.


You laughed off my question yet again, but continue to maintain Hitler couldn't have been Christian, despite any assertions he might have made and the belief that he was (Which I do not claim he made or did, all theory). I say again, who are you to JUDGE? I won't hold you to the protestant belief that anyone accepting Christ is saved, I'll hold you to Catholic standards, to your own moral code: What did Hitler do that Popes through the ages didn't? What did he believe that went against doctrine? And how dare you claim to speak for the Lord your God in matters of HIS forgiveness? I find that most unchristian of you.
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#436913 - 11/02/10 04:24 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: anna]
Colonel Kurtz Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 192
Originally Posted By: anna
Every man has a free will and takes responsibility for his life. Religion can help you to be a good person but, in the end, it is what you do in your daily life that really matters.


Responsibility is Bread and Butter to the Satanist! I wouldn't give it up to faith and/or belief. I am the one who is responsible for my short comings. I will never freely give up my successes, victories, or that which I am responsible for.

"But if religious people kill their enemies in horrible ways and people without religion do the same thing, the only thing that proves is that religion does not add or subtract anything to the human nature."

The Religious do this in the name of god. Responsiblity is abdicated. It becomes gods will and not human nature.

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#436924 - 11/02/10 05:33 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: Delta]
anna Offline


Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 219
Loc: Poland
Quote:
And how dare you claim to speak for the Lord your God in matters of HIS forgiveness? I find that most unchristian of you.


Just what the hell can you know about that...
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#436926 - 11/02/10 05:39 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: anna]
Delta Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/18/07
Posts: 6747
Loc: Nar
Originally Posted By: anna
Just what the hell can you know about that...


About what? You're claiming a man is unchristian. Isn't that Jesus's call instead of yours? Judge not for ye be judged. I don't subscribe to that but if you're a Christian perhaps you should.

Others here have judged and debated you by Satanic standards, standards a Christian cannot possibly meet. I'm giving you a sporting chance and putting you to the test of your own standards. So c'mon, tell us. What gives you the right to judge ol Adolf? And again and again, what did he ever do that your infallible papal fuhrers haven't done worse?
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#436937 - 11/02/10 07:56 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: Delta]
TheDegenerate Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 3567
Loc: Cowtown
Originally Posted By: Delta
Originally Posted By: anna
Just what the hell can you know about that...


About what? You're claiming a man is unchristian. Isn't that Jesus's call instead of yours? Judge not for ye be judged. I don't subscribe to that but if you're a Christian perhaps you should.

Others here have judged and debated you by Satanic standards, standards a Christian cannot possibly meet. I'm giving you a sporting chance and putting you to the test of your own standards. So c'mon, tell us. What gives you the right to judge ol Adolf? And again and again, what did he ever do that your infallible papal fuhrers haven't done worse?


Not to mention just how SELECTIVE these people are when it comes to selecting for themselves who is "worthy" and "unworthy." The people in charge of Catholic torture chambers, crusades, and all of that? No no, that was TOTALLY, like, UN-Christian. Rapist priests? TOTALLY UN-Christian. Those who believe in the same God but with a few minor variations in rules? Nope, going to hell, into the pit with them.

Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah.

It's the same merry go round bullshit that has kept me rolling my eyes since I was young enough to understand that people actually believed in a bunch of shit promoted by a fictional 2000 page sleeping pill. The same kind of holier-than-thou hypocritical psychobabble, and the same kind of self-destructive "open mindedness" that, every once in awhile, seems to have someone convinced that their "love all" policy will allow them intellectual asylum within the walls of the oh-so unforgiving.

There is a really good reason that Satanists are always promoting "the third side", that little grey area that lies between EVERYTHING. Anything "fact" that falls under an extreme of one kind or another is usually sketchy, at very very best, and seldom backed up with evidence, or fact. In Satanism, the greatest enemy of all is not the Christian, or the Buddhist, or tree hugging dirt licker, but instead the ignorance and lack of reason that most faiths and religions, and unfortunately, media and political agendas rely on in order to stay in the limelight. So if you are going to start an argument, especially one relying on outdated, overused stereotypes and generalizations such as "Hitler being an evil man who tortured and killing thousands just for da heck of it", it would be wise to have your shit together before you do so. If some of the people I have met here have a "flaw", it's that they are obsessive; and historical fact and the dismantling of false suppositions is definitely one of the things I am sure more than a few people here are guilty of.

I find whenever I ask a Satanist "what the hell" he knows about something, especially something such as the religion which his OWN openly mocks, ridicules, and satirizes, and which has been for over fourty years, the answer is probably going to be, "quite a fucking lot, actually." And yet the people who believe in the very same concepts seem to have barely a clue, or at worst, know a lot that they simply learned from other folks who are even more ignorant than them.

I am not trying to degenrate this into a "me too!" session of finger pointing and ridicule, but I have been watching the thread go this way for a week now, and was almost certain where it would go as soon as the word Nazi was mentioned.

Yikes.

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#436945 - 11/02/10 11:56 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: Delta]
anna Offline


Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 219
Loc: Poland
Quote:
About what? You're claiming a man is unchristian. Isn't that Jesus's call instead of yours? Judge not for ye be judged. I don't subscribe to that but if you're a Christian perhaps you should.

Others here have judged and debated you by Satanic standards, standards a Christian cannot possibly meet. I'm giving you a sporting chance and putting you to the test of your own standards. So c'mon, tell us. What gives you the right to judge ol Adolf? And again and again, what did he ever do that your infallible papal fuhrers haven't done worse?


The problem is that you are so biased that you cannot make a distinction between faith and its adherents. What I'm trying to say, and you simply ignore it, is that it is not only following the doctrine that makes you a Christian but living your everyday life in accordance with your religious values. I believe it is the same with other religions. So if your God that you believe in, says: Don't kill, love your enemies and so on and you don't follow it in your daily life you are not a Christian. Simple as that. Of course you can still go to your church and play a comedy but it doesn't change the fact that you are a hoax.

I don't judge our sweet Adolf in terms of his fate after death. Certainly we think that God can forgive the most cruel murderer if he repents before his death. However it doesn't mean that he lived a christian life. It only means that he realised how evil he was and asked for forgiveness.

Sorry but you are totally mistaken about papal infallibility. It has nothing to do with political or social issues. It also doesn't imply that the pope is morally infallible. This is the only source I can give here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_infallibility

But I admit I'm singing an exotic song on and on so I'll give in just to make you happy. wink
It is an indisputable fact that our Adolf was a true and pious Christian, a man of pure virtue, an impeccable lamb. He deserves to be called a saint and we all hope that he now resides in heaven, where he prays fervently for us all that we won't go mad in this boring peaceful world. Now as this faithful and sacred sheep has gone who is left to entertain us?

Hope you now like it. grin
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#436946 - 11/03/10 12:12 AM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: anna]
Delta Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/18/07
Posts: 6747
Loc: Nar
I'm actually impressed you know what Papal Infallibility means, I figured I'd throw it in with the phrase as most Catholics don't and shame themselves at that point by giving up.

The bible, and even the verbose Catholic canon are so broad in interpretation that any adherent can pick and choose. You like to pick the happy sunny loving god, others choose to pick the vengeful murderous god. Similarly, you choose to ignore the fact I've pointed out ad nauseam- That the most evil men in the world have acted from the very same love of god and will to obey scripture that you do.

A moot point since you've just admitted your love for Hitler. Sarcasm or not, enemy or ally, if you obey Jesus you'll love even your enemy. I'm most amused to think that as a good Christian you must love me too.

laugh laugh
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#436950 - 11/03/10 02:11 AM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: LordofDarkness]
I'mPerfecting Offline


Registered: 02/03/08
Posts: 221
Loc: Florida
Well my friend, I see you are still up to your old tricks.

LOL, I suppose it could become a new Satanic holiday, Dooms-Day we could do it every year and party like it's the end of the world. Pick a day any day, it will cooler than "Stuff To Say You Love Me In The Name Of god Day (christmas)"

I think that it would be a lot more fun. The winner will be who ever chooses the day the world really ends. Yay, you'd get to be right congratulations the prize is death, not cake today. I would be sad because then I wouldn't get presents for Dooms-day but at least someone was finally right. Isn't that what truly matters it's not the stuff, the fire works, the food, or vacations you can't afford, but being right deep down the only thing that matters, the true "spirit" of Dooms-Day would be the end of the world. (sarcasism)

I think it's a great idea my Dooms-day will be every Friday the thirteenth, and on the next 666 I might live through. I will use the religious holiday excuse and get to celebrate twice a year and it will replace cristmas and it will be just like Armageddon only a lot less free stuff.
_________________________
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"...Porcelain in a paper cup world."
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#436952 - 11/03/10 05:00 AM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: anna]
munt Offline


Registered: 09/13/10
Posts: 23
Loc: Land of viscosity
Originally Posted By: anna
Just what the hell can you know about that...


I love it when a christian gets "hot under the collar".
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#436953 - 11/03/10 05:21 AM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: anna]
verszou Offline



Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 1812
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: anna
Ok. You are right about this skin use being no more than a widespread myth. I've just rushed in and made a fool of myself without checking this thing.


"a widespread myth", as in singulars, one myth? I called you out on two errors relating to using skin.

- that the nazis did this in the concentration camps
- that french revolutionaries, which you refered to as atheists, did the same thing

So which one are you conceeding?

Originally Posted By: anna
Still, it can't be denied that the Nazis used to play with human bodies in the form of ruthless medical experiments and anatomic examinations.


Since I specifically stated in my criticism of your claim "I'm not bringing doubt to any of the others", why do you need to reiterate this. Please refrain from this kind of strawman arguments, since I never stated this, you don't get any points for refuting it.

Originally Posted By: anna

I'm really at a loss what made holocaust a Christian thing. That Hitler, in his madness, believed he was a pious Christian, doesn't mean he was one in reality.


You are making a broad generalization here instead of trying to address the actual statements about what happened. Even your own countryman pope John Paul II admitted that the role of the catholic church during world war II was problematic, I refer you to the section "Apologies" in this article You actually made the same generalization about the French revolution, which you attributed as an atheist-only event.


Originally Posted By: anna

And this is just what I'm trying to say. Everything boils down to human nature, a belief can make a person better but it doesn't have to. Every man has a free will and takes responsibility for his life. Religion can help you to be a good person but, in the end, it is what you do in your daily life that really matters.


No, what you say and what I say are not equal. Religion states that certain things are a priori good or bad, I do not agree. Just to take two examples of "good" christian values that you have emphasized "Don't kill, love your enemies" - if I follow these during wartime I have a very real chance of putting myself and my loved ones in mortal danger - for instance if somebody who may or may not be a christian come to put them in camps.

If I don't follow the "Don't kill" during peacetime I become a danger to society, and quite possibly myself, unless I'm a police officer protecting others.

What is needed is not moral absolutes and the paradoxes they lead to, but rational thought.
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#436954 - 11/03/10 05:23 AM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: anna]
Shade Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/08/06
Posts: 6133
Loc: A Trailer Park
Originally Posted By: anna
I believe it is the same with other religions.


I think so. At least, I can see a parallel with Satanism.

Lots of weirdos out there claim to be Satanist, born that way, acting in accordance, talk the talk, walk the walk etc when they're really just "playing the comedy" (devil-worshiping), mentally unstable or worse. They queer up the original meaning, cherry-pick bits from TSB, twist it out of context to suit their personal interpretation and use it as an excuse to do really un-Satanic things. I guess they might even be defacto Christians but whatever they are, definitely not Satanists.

"How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four; calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg." (Abraham Lincoln)

Originally Posted By: anna
Hope you now like it. grin


That really made chuckle. Not bad, little a, not bad at all. coopdevil
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#436964 - 11/03/10 01:59 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: Shade]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11532
Loc: New England, USA
Originally Posted By: Shade
Lots of weirdos out there claim to be Satanist, born that way, acting in accordance, talk the talk, walk the walk etc when they're really just "playing the comedy" (devil-worshiping), mentally unstable or worse.


To quote an older essay of mine:

Originally Posted By: Bill_M
I'm sure some people, especially those obsessed with bashing the COS and/or Anton LaVey, will think that the statement of "We are the real Satanists, period" is just an ignorant ethnocentric stance. In other words, some think that the statement is no different than Protestants, Catholics, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc. each claiming "We're the REAL Christians; the others aren't." This isn't so.

We have a good reason for being able to claim the title as our own: we were the first. We were not an offshoot or sect of anything else. Satanism certainly had its share of influences, just like every other religion has. But the philosophy, ceremony, and dogma of it as a whole make it extremely different than anything that ever existed prior to it. The founding of the Church of Satan marked the first time in known history that an applicable, codified religion under the name of "Satanism" existed. And "codified" is a key word here.

Sure, there were people now and then performing rituals based on elaborate church propaganda stories like “The Black Mass”, or creatively trying to invert parts of the Holy Bible or additional Catholic ceremonial traditions. But it was nothing centralized nor structured enough to honestly be called its own religion, let alone one that was public, and let alone one that had practitioners that identified themselves as "Satanists". I’ve also seen sensationalist journalists cite Crowley as having been a "Satanist", but they are obviously oblivious to what he wrote and practiced, and how and his adherents identified themselves.

Another thing that makes “We are the real Satanists” a different claim than some Christian sect saying “We are the real Christians” is the difference in canon. The Holy Bible is a vague book written over thousands of years by countless people, with translations of translations of translations. These groups have always argued over which parts deserve more attention than others, and how to manifest that. The Satanic Bible does not have the same ambiguity about it. It is less than 40 years old and came out well after the invention of the printing press. You can find first editions of the book and compare the words, which aside from introductions and the like have not changed. The religion presented in this book has no dietary restrictions, no list of long “thou shalt” and “thou shalt not” behaviors, subjective parables, or anything else that could reasonably lead to different “interpretations”.


So the whole argument of "Hitler wasn't a real Christian" still strikes me a No-True-Scottsman fallacy.
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http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
New hour every week. Download the mp3 now!

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#436968 - 11/03/10 02:51 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: Bill_M]
LordofDarkness Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 756
Loc: Tennessee, U.S.
A wonderfully written essay Mr. Bill M.

I've read it in Opvs Daemonvm: The Devil's Diaries Vol. I.

That book is very useful in my opinion.
_________________________

"Any group or collective, large or small, is only a number of individuals. A group can have no rights other than the rights of its individual members." - Ayn Rand

"Laws are there for a reason. You may not agree with them but you gotta obey them. Nobody wants to be in court." - Sonic the Hedgehog

"Satanism is not a white light religion; it is a religion of the flesh, the mundane, the carnal - all of which are ruled by Satan, the personification of the Left Hand Path." - Magus LaVey

"Test Everything, Believe Nothing." -

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#436973 - 11/03/10 04:19 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: Delta]
anna Offline


Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 219
Loc: Poland
Quote:
I'm most amused to think that as a good Christian you must love me too.


Of course I love you. There is no need to doubt it. smile
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#436975 - 11/03/10 04:25 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: anna]
LordofDarkness Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 756
Loc: Tennessee, U.S.
Originally Posted By: anna
Quote:
I'm most amused to think that as a good Christian you must love me too.


Of course I love you. There is no need to doubt it. smile


How can you love someone you don't even know?
_________________________

"Any group or collective, large or small, is only a number of individuals. A group can have no rights other than the rights of its individual members." - Ayn Rand

"Laws are there for a reason. You may not agree with them but you gotta obey them. Nobody wants to be in court." - Sonic the Hedgehog

"Satanism is not a white light religion; it is a religion of the flesh, the mundane, the carnal - all of which are ruled by Satan, the personification of the Left Hand Path." - Magus LaVey

"Test Everything, Believe Nothing." -

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#437012 - 11/04/10 11:00 AM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: LordofDarkness]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11532
Loc: New England, USA
Originally Posted By: LordofDarkness
A wonderfully written essay Mr. Bill M.

I've read it in Opvs Daemonvm: The Devil's Diaries Vol. I.

Thank you. I've been meaning to get a copy of that. The first time the full essay was printed, there were unfortunately some editing problems (two separate essays got fused together into one, under the same title), but I'm hoping this was corrected this time around.

Quote:
How can you love someone you don't even know?

Precisely. To love a person means, at the very least, that you value their existence more than that of certain other people. To apply the term "love" to strangers is to water down the meaning of the word so that it becomes useless. One of my favorite quotations on this topic is: "Love All" only works in tennis.
_________________________
Reverend Bill M.

http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
New hour every week. Download the mp3 now!

http://www.aplaceformystuff.org: Tales of Combat Clutter and other Adventures

(Wenn du Google's Übersetzer verwendest, um diese Worte zu lesen, dann bist du ein Arschloch.)

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#437016 - 11/04/10 12:31 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: anna]
verszou Offline



Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 1812
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: anna

It is an indisputable fact that our Adolf was a true and pious Christian


While browsing through an online local paper today I came across this article (http://politiken.dk/debat/ECE1101632/kierkegaard-raabte-hep-efter-joederne/). Unfortunately it is in Danish (the paper itself is socio-liberal mainstream nationwide paper - just to put it into context), and I haven't been able to find the document it refers to in online form yet.

It concerns a book by a philosopher and writer who has been much in the news because of his book about some of the antisemitism of the philosopher Kierkegaard.

In this article he refers to the official Nazi party program from 1920 which states that the party "represents the standpoint of the revelatory Christianity" and that it is "fighting the Jewish-materialistic spirit inside and around us". The translation is my own, and the author of course already translated it from the original German, but still there seems to be some evidence out there suggesting that the antisemitism of of the nazi party was influenced by christian dogma that were there centuries before.
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While having never invented a sin, I'm trying to perfect several.

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#437017 - 11/04/10 12:35 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: verszou]
verszou Offline



Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 1812
Loc: Denmark
Ah, found it

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/25points.html

Quote:
The Party as such advocates the standpoint of a positive Christianity without binding itself confessionally to any one denomination.
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While having never invented a sin, I'm trying to perfect several.

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#458732 - 08/23/11 01:18 AM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: Delta]
Pablovilla Offline



Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 267
Loc: Victorville, California
Originally Posted By: Delta
Originally Posted By: anna
the Nazis used to play with human bodies in the form of ruthless medical experiments and anatomic examinations


Play? You continue to display a total ignorance of motive. Games might have been played but medical experiments are hardly games. I know people from Poland who understand this so don't try to blame the media climate there as you did in post 436865. You're buying into cinematic delusions that even Holocaust Survivors don't buy into.

Originally Posted By: anna
I'm really at a loss what made holocaust a Christian thing.


Again you fail to understand the allegations. Regardless of Hitler's beliefs and the motives for the holocaust (And I haven't seen any claims here that the holocaust itself was motivated by Christianity, though Martin Luther might have thought otherwise I won't hold you to protestant ambitions, being Catholic and all) my allegation is that the holocaust was nothing new compared to Christian, specifically Catholic atrocities condoned and ordered by your infallible Popery.

Originally Posted By: anna
That Hitler, in his madness, believed he was a pious Christian, doesn't mean he was one in reality.


You laughed off my question yet again, but continue to maintain Hitler couldn't have been Christian, despite any assertions he might have made and the belief that he was (Which I do not claim he made or did, all theory). I say again, who are you to JUDGE? I won't hold you to the protestant belief that anyone accepting Christ is saved, I'll hold you to Catholic standards, to your own moral code: What did Hitler do that Popes through the ages didn't? What did he believe that went against doctrine? And how dare you claim to speak for the Lord your God in matters of HIS forgiveness? I find that most unchristian of you.



What I don't get is why there is such a bias against the Germans when the Japanese did the same things to Americans and Chinese peoples, and that is almost never talked about. There are many recorded medical experiments where people have been deliberately infected and watched the illness propagate to the point where people would be dissected alive to monitor the progression of the illness. Also the same was done with VX gas and other chemical weapons, and radiological experiments that our own government did on enlisted men. How do people think we know so much about the effects of radiation, the effects of LSD and other drugs and the progression of various infections?
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#458733 - 08/23/11 01:48 AM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: verszou]
Pablovilla Offline



Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 267
Loc: Victorville, California
Originally Posted By: verszou
Originally Posted By: anna

It is an indisputable fact that our Adolf was a true and pious Christian


While browsing through an online local paper today I came across this article (http://politiken.dk/debat/ECE1101632/kierkegaard-raabte-hep-efter-joederne/). Unfortunately it is in Danish (the paper itself is socio-liberal mainstream nationwide paper - just to put it into context), and I haven't been able to find the document it refers to in online form yet.

It concerns a book by a philosopher and writer who has been much in the news because of his book about some of the antisemitism of the philosopher Kierkegaard.

In this article he refers to the official Nazi party program from 1920 which states that the party "represents the standpoint of the revelatory Christianity" and that it is "fighting the Jewish-materialistic spirit inside and around us". The translation is my own, and the author of course already translated it from the original German, but still there seems to be some evidence out there suggesting that the antisemitism of of the nazi party was influenced by christian dogma that were there centuries before.



There are many different sources relating to that such as Zundelsite and the ADL answer to that site

I'm thinking that there is much more to it, and that the truth probably will never come out, as there is much profit to keep the lies up. The truth is that many innocent people needlessly died, and it was for profit. I'm just hoping that the bankers do not do to this country as they did to Germany in the 30's England in the 80's, and other countries as well.
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Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result - Ben Franklin

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#458769 - 08/23/11 04:20 PM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: LordofDarkness]
AdamBomb Offline


Registered: 05/25/11
Posts: 75
I believe there was one in June of this year. A friend of mine actually called me and asked if I heard the news about it. The world, according to the BIBLE hehehe, was supposed to end at 6pm on that day in June. I was very surprised I never heard it anywhere from anyone until after it happened.

I wonder if the symbolism meant by the end of the world meant end of the world of Christianity...and Scientology takes over a long reign until it eventually dies off.

In reality, the sun is supposed to last 5 billion years. It is 4.5 billion years old now. When it dies, all life dies along with it. That is at least what I got from Christopher Hitchen's "God is not great".

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#458802 - 08/24/11 03:57 AM Re: End of Earth Postponed [Re: AdamBomb]
Pablovilla Offline



Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 267
Loc: Victorville, California
Originally Posted By: AdamBomb
I believe there was one in June of this year. A friend of mine actually called me and asked if I heard the news about it. The world, according to the BIBLE hehehe, was supposed to end at 6pm on that day in June. I was very surprised I never heard it anywhere from anyone until after it happened.

I wonder if the symbolism meant by the end of the world meant end of the world of Christianity...and Scientology takes over a long reign until it eventually dies off.

In reality, the sun is supposed to last 5 billion years. It is 4.5 billion years old now. When it dies, all life dies along with it. That is at least what I got from Christopher Hitchen's "God is not great".


How it should be stated is the end of the world as we know it.

If you are into Tarot that would be "The Tower" or "Death", both are a form of destruction, but really mean an end to the way things are, and a new beginning. There are many that have determined that the beast in the bible was a Roman emperor, but the bible has been translated between so many languages and is so vague, who is who, and times dates etc could be anything.

It is true that part of California will split away from the rest of continent, but none of us will be around to see it. Also this will be a dead planet in a few billion years, that is before this galaxy becomes part of the Andromeda galaxy.

These things will come true, but as far as we are concerned they do not matter. However there is something that is happening right now that could be called the end of the world, and that is the global economy is tanking due to speculation and the actions of the banks. However if you or anyone wants to get a feel for the bible keep in mind that it is a bunch of stories written by a bunch of people, and most of those stories were created by peoples that did not have a written language, and thousands of years later put to paper. Also in the mind of any archeologist no one story is more true than any other, be it about Spider Woman, the Coyote, or some guy named Jesus Christ.

What is different is the number of people that believe the stories on faith, there are more people that believe that a white bearded man sitting on a throne in the sky created the earth, than believe that Spider Woman created man from Mud, or that the ants are skinny in the middle so we could become so much larger.

Each culture has creation and destruction myths, the only thing is how far people are willing to go to believe them on faith. Some will even drink the coolade so that they can fly away on a flying saucer that is hidden by a comet.

There are also some that say the end will come with Agenda 21 as part of the new world order, or as part of the new internment camps that are being setup for civil unrest when the economy really goes bad and the government takes all our guns away. These are just two of many that have been circulating around a while. There is another one that is part of a movie staring Lee Majors called "The Last Chase", where the government makes private ownership of cars illegal among other things.

There are many differing ideas on how things will end, just some are far more likely than others.
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