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#437917 - 11/17/10 07:07 PM Re: Psychotic and Religious [Re: TrojZyr]
munt Offline


Registered: 09/13/10
Posts: 23
Loc: Land of viscosity
If I went to a psychiatrist and said that I feared an invisible man who watches me at all times, day and night and whom always knows what I'm thinking. I feel if he disapproves of my actions I will be punished for ever.
Will he say that I am suffering paranoic delusions or "that's OK, that's god"?.
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#437918 - 11/17/10 07:18 PM Re: Psychotic and Religious [Re: Lust]
Lamar Drummer Offline


Registered: 09/16/10
Posts: 133
Loc: Alabama
Originally Posted By: Tier Instinct
I tend to think that anyone who subscribes to a spiritual religion or one that demands belief and or devotion to an unseen deity is in need of mental health at the very least. Take a look at how Christians view the biblical character, Abraham. They regard him as the father of faith. Why?

According to the tale in his and his wife's old age they had a Son named Isaac. He was named this because upon hearing that his wife was with child Abraham started laughing with great emotion. So his God then named the child Isaac, meaning "laughter". Isaac continued to bring laughter and joy to his parents according to the story and his God remained absent at that time.

Then, one day out of the blue Abraham is contacted by his absent God. His God demands that he take Isaac to a distant land and sacrifice him by burning him to death! Abraham agrees and takes his Son to the location and begins to perform the deed. At the last second his God tells him that he was just testing him and that he is pleased with him and Isaac is spared the flames. Insanity!

Fast forward to modern times and we see cases like those of Andrea Yates, Susan Smith, Deanna Laney and many more that can be quickly found by googling Susan Smith "god told me to do it". The only difference between these women and the biblical character Abraham, is that Abraham had some sanity left and decided against the murder. Each are insane and is why I think that each and every person who admits belief in a spiritual religion needs mental health treatment.

Now we Satanists are religious too. However, we have chose the carnal over the spiritual and we as our own Gods make pragmatic choices that better our lives while remaining grounded in the earth . Satanism is healthy and is a religion of truth and humanity and is far from Psychotic. Unlike the spiritual religions and child murdering Christians who look to their biblical characters for inspiration and then claim the Schlosser-Laney defense.


But then when confronted with this where some person commits an insane act in the name God, they will fall back on "Oh, that person wasn't a real Christian and must have misinterpreted the scripture." Or pull the old trick of blaming the Devil.
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#437919 - 11/17/10 07:29 PM Re: Psychotic and Religious [Re: munt]
Shade Offline
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Registered: 07/08/06
Posts: 6135
Loc: A Trailer Park
Originally Posted By: munt
"that's OK, that's god"


No, no, no, that's not God, silly. That's Santa. grin
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#437920 - 11/17/10 07:39 PM Re: Psychotic and Religious [Re: Zsche]
Lamar Drummer Offline


Registered: 09/16/10
Posts: 133
Loc: Alabama
Come to think of it, say the world is 90% theistic or delusional, for the rest of us who are "sane" and place our "faith" in vital existance the world becomes a bit more cherishable to the life lovers. Kind of a shit filter if you will. Ramblings and such from the theistic become irrelevant. Stratification will play out and eradicate the weak, this is happening now with suicide bombers etc. I like to smile on this knowing the worthy will survive and cherish the remainder of this life.
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#437921 - 11/17/10 07:52 PM Re: Psychotic and Religious [Re: Lamar Drummer]
DamienMocata Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/14/09
Posts: 217
Loc: Linenopolis
Quote:
Stratification will play out and eradicate the weak, this is happening now with suicide bombers etc. I like to smile on this knowing the worthy will survive and cherish the remainder of this life.


So if those suicide bombers happen to kill someone worthy (which is a very subjective term), it's still stratification? Of course it's not, but it's the way you've worded it (and the way I'm reading it, which might not be how you've intended it, plus the fact that I'm used to a country with a lot of bombs going off in it)

A maniac (of any sort) with a way of killing you should usually be placated until you can get away from them or take them down. Someone with the power to kill you is mightier than you, and thus righter, until you can change that.
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#437926 - 11/17/10 10:59 PM Re: Psychotic and Religious [Re: munt]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Originally Posted By: munt
If I went to a psychiatrist and said that I feared an invisible man who watches me at all times, day and night and whom always knows what I'm thinking. I feel if he disapproves of my actions I will be punished for ever.
Will he say that I am suffering paranoic delusions or "that's OK, that's god"?.


Oh, you can bet there's be a diagnosis, don't worry smile. I don't think any true professional worth their salt would dismiss that sort of thing out of hand. Now, whether they'd be willing to admit that it sounds an awful lot like what too many "normal" people already believe is another matter wink.

Now, the real problem is how to deal with that kind of person in the courtroom, because of the trickiness around the legal definition of "insanity," and how it actually varies from state to state.

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#437928 - 11/18/10 12:57 AM Re: Psychotic and Religious [Re: Zsche]
ookiesoup Offline


Registered: 10/11/10
Posts: 34
Loc: N. Y. USA
If there was any validity to religion then whatever god existed would invariably show up, if for no other reason, to instruct us on various aspects on this or that. There would be a strong sense of realism and conviction to this deity, instead of which we are left with doubt, confusion as to what his message is, and why he lets things like birth defects happen. To have faith in and devotion to such a monster is clearly delusional! It all boils down to mind control. coopdevil coopdevil coopdevil
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#437932 - 11/18/10 03:06 AM Re: Psychotic and Religious [Re: munt]
Machismo Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/05/10
Posts: 1132
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: munt
If I went to a psychiatrist and said that I feared an invisible man who watches me at all times, day and night and whom always knows what I'm thinking. I feel if he disapproves of my actions I will be punished for ever.
Will he say that I am suffering paranoic delusions or "that's OK, that's god"?.


Nice one. Insightful. smile

So then the psychiatrist says, "You can't see him? Weird. I see him perfectly. I thought he was a friend of yours. Yo! You in the corner over there! Get the hell out of my office! What? Fuck me? No! Fuck you!" [Stands up. Walks briskly to a corner of the office.] "Get out! Now!" [Pantomimes a struggle, punching and kicking the air, rolling around the floor.] "Take this! And this! And this! Oh shit. Oh shit. I think I killed him. Shit. I killed him. He's dead."

Client: "Oh! He's dead! He's dead! I'm free! Free! Thank you doctor! Thank you!"

...so I ask, wouldn't this be a more logical theology to wrap around the Crucifixion? God dead, hell closed for good. Problem solved. Who instigated it? Why, who else? Hail him! coopdevil
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#437953 - 11/18/10 02:21 PM Re: Psychotic and Religious [Re: munt]
anna Offline


Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 219
Loc: Poland
Quote:
If I went to a psychiatrist and said that I feared an invisible man who watches me at all times, day and night and whom always knows what I'm thinking. I feel if he disapproves of my actions I will be punished for ever.
Will he say that I am suffering paranoic delusions or "that's OK, that's god"?.


He will say that you suffer paranoic delusions that stem from your religious convictions. From clinical perspective there is no clear difference between belief and delusion. Psychiatry is science, religion is not.

However what is important to your doctor is how you cope with your everyday life, how you feel and if you have a contact with reality. Do your convictions help you or do they destroy you? Everything boils down to how you live.

For instance, I may think that my God will help me, loves me and so on, but if I work and fulfill my duties then I'm normal. But when I sit in my armchair, doing nothing and hoping that God will send me money from the sky then, certainly I am insane.
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#437961 - 11/18/10 08:34 PM Re: Psychotic and Religious [Re: DamienMocata]
Lamar Drummer Offline


Registered: 09/16/10
Posts: 133
Loc: Alabama
Originally Posted By: DamienMocata

So if those suicide bombers happen to kill someone worthy (which is a very subjective term), it's still stratification? Of course it's not, but it's the way you've worded it (and the way I'm reading it, which might not be how you've intended it, plus the fact that I'm used to a country with a lot of bombs going off in it)

A maniac (of any sort) with a way of killing you should usually be placated until you can get away from them or take them down. Someone with the power to kill you is mightier than you, and thus righter, until you can change that.


I didn't think that one through and rushed posting. I get what you are saying. I was thinking along the lines of the ones that kill themselves for religion are doing the rest of us a favor.


Edited by Lamar Drummer (11/18/10 08:34 PM)
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#437962 - 11/18/10 08:40 PM Re: Psychotic and Religious [Re: ookiesoup]
Lamar Drummer Offline


Registered: 09/16/10
Posts: 133
Loc: Alabama
Originally Posted By: ookiesoup
If there was any validity to religion then whatever god existed would invariably show up, if for no other reason, to instruct us on various aspects on this or that. There would be a strong sense of realism and conviction to this deity, instead of which we are left with doubt, confusion as to what his message is, and why he lets things like birth defects happen. To have faith in and devotion to such a monster is clearly delusional! It all boils down to mind control. coopdevil coopdevil coopdevil


I sincerely enjoyed reading the last part of this post. Religion is mind control and fear based. If I don't do this particular thing for this particular god then I am told I will burn in Hell. And people believe it.
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#437964 - 11/18/10 10:02 PM Re: Psychotic and Religious [Re: Shade]
RoyceDavis Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 11/15/10
Posts: 133
Loc: Ukiah, Ca. US
Originally Posted By: Shade
I get what your saying but it seems like kind of a slippery slope to make such a generalization. Who decides which beliefs (philosophy, ideology, etc) are legitimate and which are irrational? How can a society be founded on religious freedom on one hand and condemn religion on another?


That's the problem, religion should have nothing to do with law or justice. There should be no one who decides what beliefs (etc...) are legitimate or rational. All should be treated as equal, and equally ignored by the 'justice system'. A society that truly has religious freedom is a society where religion is not a part of society, but a practice of each individual, and should not have any effect on anything outside that individual person.
It IS a slippery slope, and I can't wait to start sliding.


Edited by RollsRoyce (11/18/10 10:02 PM)
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#437970 - 11/19/10 01:36 AM Re: Psychotic and Religious [Re: Shade]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
Quote:
Who decides which beliefs (philosophy, ideology, etc) are legitimate and which are irrational? How can a society be founded on religious freedom on one hand and condemn religion on another?


All very good questions.

Ultimately I have no problem with other religions/philosophies existing so long as they do not infringe upon the legal system or other people's liberties. When they do infringe upon such civil liberties that is when I think something should be done about them.

Just my opinion.


Edited by Unknown (11/19/10 01:37 AM)
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#437971 - 11/19/10 03:21 AM Re: Psychotic and Religious [Re: Zsche]
XUL Offline


Registered: 12/12/09
Posts: 238
Loc: Oslo, Norway
Originally Posted By: Nibas
Responsibility seems to be a foreign concept to most of these individuals as well as to the current legal system.


Reality itself is a foreign concept to a psychotic person, let alone the finer details of the social contract. It follows from this that it's unreasonable to hold a genuinely insane person responsible for his or her actions the same way you'd do with someone of a sound mind. All you can do is contain them somewhere so they won't reprsent any danger to anyone. So in this respect, letting religious people off the hook by declaring them insane isn't really a cool thing to do.

We may paraphrase Jesus and say "forgive them not, for they know what they're doing".

On the other hand, you could say that it isn't really all that respectable to be a psycho wannabe. One of the finest qualities of the human species is our creative imagination and the ability to believe in your own vision to such an extent that you recreate it in physicality. This is what produces art, architecture, inventions, everything. But this is also what produces most of that which is commonly referred to as evil. The key is this ability to believe and to place faith in something that is not (yet) real. Wisdom, in this respect, would then be to know your own limitations. I am not necessarily adverse to the idea that there might be some sort of metaphysical "force" which more or less equates to a monotheistic deity - but I think it a wee bit out of the human league to make statements on behalf of a proposed God which equals the entire universe and all that's in it, and at any rate you'd have to assume that such a being would express itself in a no-nonsense way and that whatever God commands isn't really up for discussion. It would assume the form of galaxies and nuclear meltdowns inside giant stars. It would, in short, be the laws of physics.

Imagining that an all-powerful God would be bothered with what you do with your little willie behind the closed doors of your own home is preposterous - and therein lies the madness of religion: God doesn't give a fuck. He made you what you are so that you can go out and live your life in this beautiful world of tragedy and madness, no so that you should ask stupid questions and in other ways be an ingrate about this gift of life... rather than simply live it as best you can... and celebrate each day as a source of joy which carries within it its own explanation, manifest in a mind and body that are yours to do with as you please.

Outdated as the concept might be, I'd rather describe the insanity of religious faith as a form of neurosis; something petty, something sick and twisted that disables you from enjoying the full experience of living a human life.



Edited by XUL (11/19/10 03:27 AM)
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#437972 - 11/19/10 03:29 AM Re: Psychotic and Religious [Re: RoyceDavis]
John Prophet Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 993
Loc: My suburban lair
Originally Posted By: RollsRoyce
All should be treated as equal, and equally ignored by the 'justice system'. A society that truly has religious freedom is a society where religion is not a part of society, but a practice of each individual, and should not have any effect on anything outside that individual person.


Originally Posted By: Unknown
Ultimately I have no problem with other religions/philosophies existing so long as they do not infringe upon the legal system or other people's liberties.


Unless I’m mistaken, what's being described here is almost the very definition of a “secular society”. smile
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