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#437977 - 11/19/10 10:15 AM Re: Psychotic and Religious [Re: Zsche]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Quote:
Who decides which beliefs (philosophy, ideology, etc) are legitimate and which are irrational? How can a society be founded on religious freedom on one hand and condemn religion on another?

For my part, I happen to know a few religious people who aren't fanatics, don't profess to hear the voice of God, are friendly to non-believers, don't use Scripture to justify their actions to non-believers, are intelligent, polite and civil, and think critically about their own religious beliefs.

It's easy, and dangerous, to fall into the trap of saying, "If these people were really rational, if they really thought critically, they wouldn't believe the things they believe." The person who thinks that way is the unreasonable one; he rejects a person's viewpoint out of hand because he doesn't like the conclusion.
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#437982 - 11/19/10 11:37 AM Re: Psychotic and Religious [Re: reprobate]
Zsche Offline



Registered: 04/17/09
Posts: 158
Loc: Where the 5.56 casings fall...
Originally Posted By: reprobate
For my part, I happen to know a few religious people who aren't fanatics, don't profess to hear the voice of God, are friendly to non-believers, don't use Scripture to justify their actions to non-believers, are intelligent, polite and civil, and think critically about their own religious beliefs.
It's easy, and dangerous, to fall into the trap of saying, "If these people were really rational, if they really thought critically, they wouldn't believe the things they believe." The person who thinks that way is the unreasonable one; he rejects a person's viewpoint out of hand because he doesn't like the conclusion.

Indeed Warlock Reprobate – I have yet to become acquainted with individuals like this. It must be interesting to know such people. Perhaps it is due to the area where I live and partially due to the select few people I choose to associate with on a social level… My generalizations are based on my own past experiences and dealings with the religious as well as things that I have personally witnessed.

I do see your point – that participating in huge generalizations and closed-mindedness could be viewed as herd mentality. I will try to keep this in mind. Thank you for your words of wisdom.

Hail Satan!
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Originally Posted By: Phineas
My suggestion to you, besides obtaining a copy of The Satanic Bible and reading it, is to immerse yourself in the information contained at the Church of Satan website.

Originally Posted By: Hagen von Tronje
You can't guzzle whiskey and pinch pretty ladies' asses when you're dead.

Originally Posted By: Roho_the_Rooster
Love life. Live life. Don't fuck with people unnecessarily. Don"t let other people fuck with you. Simple guidelines that that will help you to make informed, intelligent and Satanic decisions.

Originally Posted By: Callier
Constructive criticism is one thing but people that just point blank tell others what they should be doing with their lives without any kind of permission can eat a bag of hairy balls.

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#437990 - 11/19/10 04:04 PM Re: Psychotic and Religious [Re: Zsche]
Quercuss Offline


Registered: 08/14/05
Posts: 47
Loc: Vermont, USA
I feel it is important to remember that not all people are leaders. Leaders make up a small percentage of the populace. Most are followers, relying on the few leaders to provide them with the answers that make the unknown known and thereby allowing them to feel safe in a world full of scary unknowns.

So, once the scary unknown is known through whatever answers are given by the leaders, this provided and accepted paradigm is what is used to interpret all experiences of life. Including those experiences experienced by those accepting followers who may be suffering from delusional psychosis.

So, if they have accepted God to save them from their screwed up lives, their delusions will have a God based theme. If they have accepted that Barney the big purple dinosaur says that I love you and you love me and where one big happy family....then this will very likely be the background for their delusions.

I'm hopin' they go with Barney. I'd rather have a crazy stanger on the street hug me and tell me they love me, than shoot me in the head because I'm an unrepenting sinner!

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#438007 - 11/19/10 08:17 PM Re: Psychotic and Religious [Re: Zsche]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Quote:
I have yet to become acquainted with individuals like this. It must be interesting to know such people. Perhaps it is due to the area where I live and partially due to the select few people I choose to associate with on a social level…

Having been to NC, I can imagine that's probably a big factor. My condolences.
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#438232 - 11/22/10 08:41 AM Re: Psychotic and Religious [Re: TrojZyr]
Indae Offline



Registered: 07/14/09
Posts: 25
Loc: Kentucky
Quote:
The sticky wicket is that people who appear to be more-or-less "sane"--that is, apparently free of any clearly diagnosable neurological or psychological disorder or deficit-- can still latch on to absolutely ridiculous beliefs, so where do you draw the line between "too ridiculous," and "just ridiculous enough?"

Of course, asking that kind of question requires you to at least wade into the murky waters that are value judgments, because what one person finds utterly beyond-the-pale batshit nutso, another may consider not so bad, and still another may think is totally reasonable.


I couldn't have said it better myself. For example, it is well known that to say your wife is your "little angel" is a figure of speech, but to a "Satanist" I know, he would correct you and say, "you mean little demon". Most would think he was being funny, but in reality, he's dead serious! I would say he's probably confused or even misled, but I wouldn't say he was insane. Now, in another instance, I grew up with a girl who's mother found out she was into the occult. The mother, being a religious nut, started tearing up the girls posters, throwing away "band shirts", breaking tapes, so on and so forth. She even went so far as to sprinkle holy water all over the girls room when she (my friend) was gone! In the end of all the madness, the mother kicked the girl out of the house!! Now, to me, that's nuts! To throw away your family over religion or a belief system is absolutely ridiculous! My point being, "Insanity is in the eye of the beholder". wink


Edited by Indae (11/22/10 08:45 AM)
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#438240 - 11/22/10 09:17 AM Re: Psychotic and Religious [Re: Zsche]
Disembodied Offline
Intellectual Black Hole

Registered: 11/22/10
Posts: 21
Loc: Tropichell paradise.
Religion has motivated people to kill other people for centuries. It's impressive.
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#438242 - 11/22/10 09:30 AM Re: Psychotic and Religious [Re: Disembodied]
LordofDarkness Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 760
Loc: Tennessee, U.S.
Maybe not religion in general though. Think of Buddhism for example.

I never heard of a Buddhist holding an M60 and firing off a few rounds like Rambo. But I won't say there isn't any so called Buddhist who wouldn't be like his counterparts and disobey his religion's teachings.


Edited by LordofDarkness (11/22/10 09:32 AM)
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"Any group or collective, large or small, is only a number of individuals. A group can have no rights other than the rights of its individual members." - Ayn Rand

"Laws are there for a reason. You may not agree with them but you gotta obey them. Nobody wants to be in court." - Sonic the Hedgehog

"Satanism is not a white light religion; it is a religion of the flesh, the mundane, the carnal - all of which are ruled by Satan, the personification of the Left Hand Path." - Magus LaVey

"Test Everything, Believe Nothing." -

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#438243 - 11/22/10 09:41 AM Re: Psychotic and Religious [Re: Shade]
Shade Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/08/06
Posts: 6135
Loc: A Trailer Park
This is an interesting write-up on current trial, Brian David Mitchell.

Quote:
When it comes to determining competency vs. criminality, religious beliefs are sometimes central to the debate.

"One man's vision is another man's delusion. One person's cult is another person's spiritual path," said BJ Gallagher, a sociologist and author who lives in Los Angeles, California. "In cases where God's guidance is invoked, we need to proceed very carefully."
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#438250 - 11/22/10 10:18 AM Re: Psychotic and Religious [Re: Shade]
Zsche Offline



Registered: 04/17/09
Posts: 158
Loc: Where the 5.56 casings fall...
Absolutely Shade -

That's the exact article that prompted me to start this thread!

It was really the tip of the iceberg for me though - as there have been many recent stories of delusional individuals receiving “divine inspiration” instructing them to commit crimes.

A bumper sticker I once saw: “When God is on your side, you can never be wrong.”

This mentality appears to be prevalent in the general population where I reside - so I made the assumption that it is like this everywhere.
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Originally Posted By: Phineas
My suggestion to you, besides obtaining a copy of The Satanic Bible and reading it, is to immerse yourself in the information contained at the Church of Satan website.

Originally Posted By: Hagen von Tronje
You can't guzzle whiskey and pinch pretty ladies' asses when you're dead.

Originally Posted By: Roho_the_Rooster
Love life. Live life. Don't fuck with people unnecessarily. Don"t let other people fuck with you. Simple guidelines that that will help you to make informed, intelligent and Satanic decisions.

Originally Posted By: Callier
Constructive criticism is one thing but people that just point blank tell others what they should be doing with their lives without any kind of permission can eat a bag of hairy balls.

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#438252 - 11/22/10 10:24 AM Re: Psychotic and Religious [Re: Zsche]
Shade Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/08/06
Posts: 6135
Loc: A Trailer Park
Whoa, neat! We're on the same channel. smile

Reeeeally good book on the subject I've mentioned here before and can't recommend enough is Under The Banner of Heaven by Krakauer. Lots of thought-provoking stuff on Mormonism specifically and Faith (capital F) in general. I like this quote:

"Faith is the very antithesis of reason, injudiciousness a crucial component of spiritual devotion. And when religious fanaticism supplants ratiocination, all bets are suddenly off. Anything can happen. Absolutely anything. Common sense is no match for the voice of God... "
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"What happens in the shadow, in the grey regions, also interests us – all that is elusive and fugitive, all that can be said in those beautiful half tones, or in whispers, in deep shade." ~ The Brothers Quay

We're Just Regular People

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#438320 - 11/22/10 06:08 PM Re: Psychotic and Religious [Re: Zsche]
marinex69 Offline


Registered: 10/19/10
Posts: 8
Loc: Upstate NY, USA
Quote from Anna:
"Only our views are right. We are the only ones who are wise, intelligent and sane. All those who think differently are: psychotic, stupid, irresponsible, idiotic and so on and so forth. This is what all the fanatics think, Muslims, Christians, Atheists, Jews, Pagans..."

Can a CoS Magister, Warlock, Witch, or a Reverend advise me on the addition of Atheists to this quote. By definition(1972 dictionary), atheist is "one who denies the existence of a God." I am beginning my journey as a Satanist, thanks to enlightenment by a friend from my service years. As an atheist who Hails Satan and Self; I am disquieted a bit. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. HS

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#438334 - 11/23/10 12:23 AM Re: Psychotic and Religious [Re: marinex69]
verszou Offline



Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 1814
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: marinex69

Can a CoS Magister, Warlock, Witch, or a Reverend advise me on the addition of Atheists to this quote. By definition(1972 dictionary), atheist is "one who denies the existence of a God." I am beginning my journey as a Satanist, thanks to enlightenment by a friend from my service years. As an atheist who Hails Satan and Self; I am disquieted a bit. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. HS


I am not in any of the groups you requested, but my two cents - Anna is not a Satanist, she is skilled in selective reasoning and making claims that she cannot back with facts. Her definitions change with whatever is most convenient to the argument she is making at that particular point in time.

So you will not learn anything worthwhile about Satanism there.
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While having never invented a sin, I'm trying to perfect several.

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#438335 - 11/23/10 12:56 AM Re: Psychotic and Religious [Re: verszou]
marinex69 Offline


Registered: 10/19/10
Posts: 8
Loc: Upstate NY, USA
Thank you for your feedback verszou. HS!

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#438354 - 11/23/10 07:40 AM Re: Psychotic and Religious [Re: Zsche]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 6999
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
Originally Posted By: Nibas
psy•cho•sis
noun: fundamental derangement of the mind characterized by defective or lost contact with reality especially as evidenced by delusions, hallucinations, and disorganized speech and behavior






Religious: " relating to or manifesting faithful devotion to an acknowledged ultimate reality or deity <a religious person> <religious attitudes>". A psychotic has lost touch with reality. A religious person is attempting to understand reality. While some religious people may be wrong, being wrong is not a psychosis. If it were, we would all be nusts from time to time. Some years ago, I may have agreed with you; but, the need to demonize those unable to accept the obvious conclusions of critical thinking has been replaced by an urge to simply ignore them. That makes them go away faster.
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#438361 - 11/23/10 10:07 AM Re: Psychotic and Religious [Re: Roho_the_Rooster]
Zsche Offline



Registered: 04/17/09
Posts: 158
Loc: Where the 5.56 casings fall...
Originally Posted By: Roho_the_Rooster
Some years ago, I may have agreed with you; but, the need to demonize those unable to accept the obvious conclusions of critical thinking has been replaced by an urge to simply ignore them. That makes them go away faster.

Thank you for your input Roho. I am the first to admit there is always more to learn. I have attempted to practice disregard for these types, and at times it is sufficient. I find it difficult with the in-your-face types who make the assumption that everyone shares the same views they have – especially when it involves my children.

I loathe proselytism. At times it has invoked an in-your-face response from me. This has proved to serve me well in certain situations – but has also proved to alienate. Perhaps I’m not being patient enough with my ignoring? Thank you for the food for thought.

Hail Satan!


Edited by Nibas (11/23/10 12:43 PM)
Edit Reason: Corrected past participle of "prove".
_________________________
Originally Posted By: Phineas
My suggestion to you, besides obtaining a copy of The Satanic Bible and reading it, is to immerse yourself in the information contained at the Church of Satan website.

Originally Posted By: Hagen von Tronje
You can't guzzle whiskey and pinch pretty ladies' asses when you're dead.

Originally Posted By: Roho_the_Rooster
Love life. Live life. Don't fuck with people unnecessarily. Don"t let other people fuck with you. Simple guidelines that that will help you to make informed, intelligent and Satanic decisions.

Originally Posted By: Callier
Constructive criticism is one thing but people that just point blank tell others what they should be doing with their lives without any kind of permission can eat a bag of hairy balls.

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