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#439122 - 12/02/10 03:09 PM Overpopulation?
SatAnonymous Offline


Registered: 11/27/10
Posts: 85
Loc: Nowhere over the rainfall.
There are ~7 billion people in the Earth and this number is continuously increasing. What do you think? Will we become overpopulated?

And if we get overpopulated, how can we decrease the number of us? Make laws which prohibit giving births or kill the weaks or just let them die without food? Of course there are a lot of other possibilities.

I think the ideal population would be around 1 billion. And people should have special courses that helps them with real life. Quality > Number of people.
I hope you will be interested about that topic.
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#439125 - 12/02/10 03:21 PM Re: Overpopulation? [Re: SatAnonymous]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11560
Loc: New England, USA
This is a topic that has always interested me. It's one of those taboo subjects, but the simple fact is that a lot of the world's problems can be traced back to simply having too many people. Just 30 years ago we had only 4 billion people, but hey, that's the nature of exponents!

As for solutions, unfortunately I don't think there's anything both overly-simple and feasible. Part of it comes down to making economic and resource adjustments to sustain more people, but I don't see how that can be done when the population reaches numbers like 15 billion. Though the more people there are, the more it becomes statistically inevitable that natural disasters, disease, etc. will wipe out bigger populations. This makes the holy-rollers freak out and claim that it's the "end times" (as they have been claiming for the past 2000 years anyway), but it's really a matter of numbers.

I'd be interested to hear additional people's input on this.
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#439128 - 12/02/10 03:34 PM Re: Overpopulation? [Re: SatAnonymous]
MarquisDeSade Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 793
Loc: Van Buren, AR
So, if you do the math, you can fit every person on the planet into the state of Texas, and you would have a population density equal to that of Paris, France.

Of course from the point of view of social dynamics, the population explosion is very interesting. Biologically, we are programmed to live in 50 person societys, and our bodys and minds have not really caught up to the fact that we no longer do.
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#439134 - 12/02/10 05:16 PM Re: Overpopulation? [Re: SatAnonymous]
John Prophet Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 995
Loc: My suburban lair
It’s also interesting to note that the population expansion of many of the more developed nations seems to be leveling off and in some cases, is projected to go down in the future.

I think it’s possible that once a society (or country, if you want to divide it up that way) has reached a certain level of sophistication, then it will sort of take care of this problem of overpopulation on its own through various social and cultural changes.

It seems that people who live in very prosperous nations don’t always seem as eager to have kids, have as many of them, and they tend to have access to better means of contraception.

If you live in a poor rural community, with a high mortality rate and need any extra family hands to help you work your farm, then having a larger family makes more sense. However, this is not the situation or culture of many parts of the world now and the more “modern”, financially prosperous and urbanized the world becomes, the more we can expect to see a shift in priorities when it comes to people having children.

Ironically, the attitudes that many in the past would refer to as “selfish, shallow or indulgent” that we see coming from contemporary individuals who would rather have fun and spend money on themselves, than start a family; might just end up saving the world! wink
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#439135 - 12/02/10 05:36 PM Re: Overpopulation? [Re: SatAnonymous]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
To paraphrase the good Doktor, "To get rid of the problem, we must understand that you need to get rid of the people."

Would today's population of close to 7 billion already be considered overpopulation? What number would be the marker?

Here is another problem: Will the advancement and displacement of technology be able to curb the problem of a rapidly growing population?
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#439137 - 12/02/10 05:48 PM Re: Overpopulation? [Re: MarquisDeSade]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
Yes, yes. That is the same kind of statement as the one about garbage. “The trash output of the United States could fill only 1/4 that of Wyoming.”

I think I heard this from a few people. I remember Penn and Teller saying the same thing on their Bullshit show. Perhaps it was a different state they used as an example. But the argument is stupid.

Even if you could fit the entire human population into Texas and have the same density as Paris (I would like to see the calculations done by a real theorist on this and not an uneducated comment pasted down from person to person), it still doesn’t curtail the problem of a rapid growing population and its effects on the environment, its own resources, and its own social conflicts. All it does is give a vague reason for apathy instead of serious investigation.

Even if that comment was accurate, when should civilization take it seriously?
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"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#439145 - 12/02/10 06:55 PM Re: Overpopulation? [Re: SatAnonymous]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10129
I see the outcome as less of a Malthusian disaster in the sense of cataclysms and worldwide starvation to death, and more like Soylent Green - a slow suffocation under the weight of an increasing population. Quality of life will slide until finally everyone is barely getting by.

I have no idea if it will or can be headed off at equilibrium before it gets that bad. We've managed to stave off disaster a few times, often with key inventions or discoveries that permitted us to break through the previous ceiling, but obviously that has to have a logical limit.

But if you ask me, we're already drastically overpopulated. Humans are a plains predator, and comparing to other plains predators (such as big cats, canids, etc) that should suggest that our natural environment is one with a wide territory shared by a relatively small population, not a hive. Indeed it seems many of our social ills are caused by attempting to live in such close quarters. Even if the maximum possible population with miracle science of the 25th century or whatever came to something absurd like 100 billion people, would you really want to live in that kind of world?
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#439147 - 12/02/10 07:09 PM Re: Overpopulation? [Re: SatAnonymous]
anna Offline


Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 219
Loc: Poland
Actually the number of people increases due to the development of civilisation. We live longer now and are more healthy. The European governments are concerned about the ageing problem. There are more old people than newborn children and some economists, at least in Poland, worry that the pension system will collapse.

I don't wonder that people, more and more often, don't want to have many children. Children are expensive and require a lot of attention. The families with three or more children have a hard time in Poland, as the government doesn't give a damn about them. Of course, there are lots of promises and beautiful words that children are our future and so on. However, the fact is that pregnant women and women with newborn babies have numerous difficulties at work and still there are financial problems to cope with as bringing up a child costs a lot in our country.
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#439155 - 12/02/10 08:33 PM Re: Overpopulation? [Re: SatAnonymous]
Riddles Offline


Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 82
Loc: Maryland


In another skit, he pointed to an audience member who admitted to having a vasectomy, and said something to the effect of "Next time you get a great parking space, thank that guy." Haha.
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#439157 - 12/02/10 08:50 PM Re: Overpopulation? [Re: anna]
Original Sly Offline


Registered: 09/10/09
Posts: 205
Loc: New Zealand
Your post makes no sense. You say,

Quote:
Actually the number of people increases due to the development of civilisation. We live longer now and are more healthy.


But then you go on to say,

Quote:
There are more old people than newborn children and some economists, at least in Poland, worry that the pension system will collapse.


If there are more old people than newborn children, then there are less new humans being introduced into the system. As people age, yet an equal number of newborns aren't introduced to replace the ones who die, the population won't increase. It will decrease slowly.

I don't understand why you're talking economics. How an aging population is supported financially isn't the same thing as discussing overpopulation.

We should really be concentrating on what the more versed members of this board are talking about which is overpopulation in the Third World and vast numbers of them immigrating to our countries. If we don't stop them breeding like fuckin' rabbits, or a Multhusian check doesn't happen at a level that'll drop their population, we're all going to be brown. Fuck that.
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#439164 - 12/02/10 09:51 PM Re: Overpopulation? [Re: Original Sly]
John Prophet Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 995
Loc: My suburban lair
Originally Posted By: Original Sly
If there are more old people than newborn children, then there are less new humans being introduced into the system. As people age, yet an equal number of newborns aren't introduced to replace the ones who die, the population won't increase. It will decrease slowly.

Exactly, and although that may put a temporary strain on the economic side of things (it could lead to greater economic prosperity later), it's very good for countering overpopulation.


Edited by John Prophet (12/02/10 09:53 PM)
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#439169 - 12/02/10 10:40 PM Re: Overpopulation? [Re: Discipline]
Shade Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/08/06
Posts: 6135
Loc: A Trailer Park
Originally Posted By: Discipline
Will the advancement and displacement of technology be able to curb the problem of a rapidly growing population?


Genetically altered, vaccine resistant, weaponized anthrax would definitely curb a growing population... SCIENCE!!!
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#439173 - 12/02/10 11:10 PM Re: Overpopulation? [Re: SatAnonymous]
Kind Offline


Registered: 12/02/10
Posts: 2
Loc: Paris of the West
Tokyo highrises, more underground living literally as Toronto where possible would make enough room for all here. Restored urban districts avoiding sprawl and using farmland for as such instead some now vacant , we need more forests to make water through rain and snow. Sick notions of killing people en masse make other problems as what to do with piles of people besides make new bricks. Restore and do not hurt the help.

More trees than people.

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#439178 - 12/03/10 12:26 AM Re: Overpopulation? [Re: SatAnonymous]
ookiesoup Offline


Registered: 10/11/10
Posts: 36
Loc: N. Y. USA
How many dinosuars were on this planet when they got wiped out? Don't worry ---- when earth gets bored with us, there'll be scarcely anyone left, and the earth will go on as it always has! skull skull skull
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#439185 - 12/03/10 01:17 AM Re: Overpopulation? [Re: SatAnonymous]
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 10573
Loc: England
The human race is self-cleansing.

As per the Futurist Manifesto: war is the world's only hygiene.

If we hadn't already had WW1 & WW2 we would already be at a far worse point in population numbers.

We are overdue. And I suspect the next world war will be significant in cleansing the world.

Personally, I hate it. There's just so many of them I can't get away for more than ten minutes. The stench of them is so bad I can taste them on my tongue. Great roving tides of stupid, stinking, worthless people. A great swathe of uselessness.


Edited by Rev_Strongbone (12/03/10 01:21 AM)
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