#445939 - 02/24/11 02:26 PM
Re: Realization of Intelligence as a child?
[Re: Furrtiv]
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CoS Reverend
Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11183
Loc: New England, USA
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Hm, with regards to the being bad at maths - doesn't mean I can't figure stuff out. [...] As with all things, it's a form of stratification; some of us are better at this stuff than others. The stratification doesn't only have two levels, though. There's still a huge difference between accepting the fact that you'll probably never excel at a particular subject, and being so clueless about that it becomes embarrassingly self-defeating. Not being in the first extreme does not justify being willingly of the second extreme. Again, it's even more ridiculous when some people practically pride themselves in being of the latter extreme, perhaps even thinking there's something inferior about being a "geek" of a particular subject. I'm not expecting laymen to be able to do trigonometry in their heads. But I do expect an adult to be capable of at least figuring out something like "40 minus 10" without freaking out and resorting to a calculator. Likewise, I'm certainly not an artist, astronomer, or historian, and I don't dare compete with experts in these fields. However, I can at least draw a recognizable triangle, know that the Earth is closer than Pluto is to the Sun, and write at least a few sentences worth of information on the American Civil War. It's not impressive by any means, but some people pathetically can't even do some of these things, and not surprisingly they can be easily manipulated into crooked business deals, conspiracy theories, etc. It doesn't take much imagination to think of examples. Let that happen to the herd, not us. 
_________________________
Reverend Bill M. http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers, New hour every week. Download the mp3 now! http://www.aplaceformystuff.org: Tales of Combat Clutter and other Adventures (Wenn du Google's Übersetzer verwendest, um diese Worte zu lesen, dann bist du ein Arschloch.)
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#445951 - 02/24/11 04:37 PM
Re: Realization of Intelligence as a child?
[Re: Liberterius]
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Registered: 02/19/11
Posts: 7
Loc: florida
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I've actually gotten much better at math since I've had my current job. I do use a calculator at times, but its become easier to calculate simple math on my own. I guess it just takes practice and perseverance. I refuse to be defeated by numbers, dammit! :P
See, my thing is that I can figure out different ways in coming up with a solution, somewhat technical, but really easy for me to come up with. However, I just cant figure out the equation I've come up with to find the solution! Guess I gotta have more patience and spend more time trying to work on that.
_________________________
Now its time to crown yourself the queen of You.
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#445962 - 02/24/11 05:14 PM
Re: Realization of Intelligence as a child?
[Re: Bill_M]
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CoS Member
Registered: 12/25/08
Posts: 1691
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Funnier, some people do not understand that math is a descriptive tool and has a strong connection with everyday reality. They think it's just something written in their exercise books. I do not address this to anyone here in particular. One memory occured to me. I remember one boy, who kept trying to reinvent a wheel, once talked about amount of apples. Like this: 'What if two apples are three and not two?' He kept wondering about words, thought that he was undermining the math and failed to see that the mass of apples remains the same, equal amount of fruits like before. Math is just a description of reality, useful to help get other descriptions that make things work. Nothing more and nothing less. When I used to join this kind of discussions in other forums in the past, I usually said - if there were no math, people would be living in the caves yet and would not have any of the comfort which they are enjoying happily now. But in general, I have already given up on this kind of conversations a long time ago. 
_________________________
Wir sind Götter, Gott ist der Mensch, sein ist die Hand die schafft, sein ist die Hand die verletzt.
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#445991 - 02/24/11 08:42 PM
Re: Realization of Intelligence as a child?
[Re: Bill_M]
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Registered: 01/06/10
Posts: 241
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Hm, with regards to the being bad at maths - doesn't mean I can't figure stuff out. [...] As with all things, it's a form of stratification; some of us are better at this stuff than others. The stratification doesn't only have two levels, though. There's still a huge difference between accepting the fact that you'll probably never excel at a particular subject, and being so clueless about that it becomes embarrassingly self-defeating. Not being in the first extreme does not justify being willingly of the second extreme. Again, it's even more ridiculous when some people practically pride themselves in being of the latter extreme, perhaps even thinking there's something inferior about being a "geek" of a particular subject. I'm not expecting laymen to be able to do trigonometry in their heads. But I do expect an adult to be capable of at least figuring out something like "40 minus 10" without freaking out and resorting to a calculator. Likewise, I'm certainly not an artist, astronomer, or historian, and I don't dare compete with experts in these fields. However, I can at least draw a recognizable triangle, know that the Earth is closer than Pluto is to the Sun, and write at least a few sentences worth of information on the American Civil War. It's not impressive by any means, but some people pathetically can't even do some of these things, and not surprisingly they can be easily manipulated into crooked business deals, conspiracy theories, etc. It doesn't take much imagination to think of examples. Let that happen to the herd, not us. I love this post. I hate it when people are PROUD of their ignorance in subjects, like it's bad to know things. The culture of willful ignorance being cool is such a huge problem in this country, and most of the world. Especially black urban culture in the US, uggggggh. *vomits* I admit when I'm not an expert in a subject, but I could still have a mild interest in it, and will often fact-check things I hear in news reports or in science magazines when I see something I'm not familiar with. I could talk all day about the American Civil War or a lot of US and European history, but studying math or trying to draw or fix car engines would kill me. Doesn't mean I don't WANT to know anything about them; I can at least try. But seriously fuck willful ignorance and the culture of stupidity.
Edited by Liberterius (02/24/11 08:43 PM)
Edit Reason: spell check
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#445997 - 02/24/11 10:40 PM
Re: Realization of Intelligence as a child?
[Re: Bill_M]
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CoS Magister
Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8126
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The stratification doesn't only have two levels, though. It hardly ever does. The either or crowd forgets there are degrees of development. 
_________________________
"Consensus is the absence of leadership." Margaret Thatcher
"I'm fascinated with how primitive the human mind still is. It can be misdirected so easily." John Gaughan
"Success is uncommon. Therefore, not to be enjoyed by the common man." Cal Stoll
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#446012 - 02/25/11 02:21 AM
Re: Realization of Intelligence as a child?
[Re: Liberterius]
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CoS Reverend
Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 10478
Loc: England
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_________________________
"u.v.ray is an uncompromising writer who glares at the world with bloodshot eyes. He gazes into the abyss and sees jewels of tragedy, comedy, cruelty, heroism, tenderness, darkness, grit and futility. We Are Glass is a searing collection of seventeen razor-sharp short stories; a very fine collection indeed." -- Paul D. Brazill. www.uvray.moonfruit.com
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#446016 - 02/25/11 04:53 AM
Re: Realization of Intelligence as a child?
[Re: Liberterius]
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Registered: 12/12/09
Posts: 238
Loc: Oslo, Norway
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The culture of willful ignorance
That sort of thing actually has an academic term of its own now: Agnotology, i.e. " the study of culturally-induced ignorance or doubt, particularly the publication of inaccurate or misleading scientific data" (Wikipedia).
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#446017 - 02/25/11 04:57 AM
Re: Realization of Intelligence as a child?
[Re: XUL]
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CoS Reverend
Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 10478
Loc: England
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>> That sort of thing actually has an academic term of its own now: Agnotology, i.e. "the study of culturally-induced ignorance or doubt, particularly the publication of inaccurate or misleading scientific data" (Wikipedia).<<
If it is willful then it isn't ignorance.
_________________________
"u.v.ray is an uncompromising writer who glares at the world with bloodshot eyes. He gazes into the abyss and sees jewels of tragedy, comedy, cruelty, heroism, tenderness, darkness, grit and futility. We Are Glass is a searing collection of seventeen razor-sharp short stories; a very fine collection indeed." -- Paul D. Brazill. www.uvray.moonfruit.com
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#446025 - 02/25/11 07:57 AM
Re: Realization of Intelligence as a child?
[Re: Drake_Bamboozle]
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Registered: 12/12/09
Posts: 238
Loc: Oslo, Norway
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If it is willful then it isn't ignorance. Now you're getting advanced. Philosophical metaphors aside, I like to think of that which they call "faith" (especially in its religious context) as willful (and often quite organised) ignorance. The study of Agnotology may or may not lead anywhere -- but I'm quite happy that it's gotten an acedamic acknowledgement as a real, quantifiable phenomenon.
Edited by XUL (02/25/11 08:00 AM)
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#446046 - 02/25/11 02:51 PM
Re: Realization of Intelligence as a child?
[Re: Liberterius]
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CoS Warlock
Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 6968
Loc: Eremitica
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This is very simplistic...and admittedly an artificial dichotomy, but I find there are two kinds of people...those who choose specific things to think about or study because it gives them a feeling of security; and, the curious. Curiosity has no specific goal other than scratching that itch. The curious come in differing degrees of intelligence. But at a certain level, they can, if they put their minds to it,learn pretty much anything. Interestingly, it is not uncommon to find that the curious may not be considered the most successful people in the world because they might not stick at one thing very long, unless something really grabs them.
Sadly, there are people who show little to no curiosity. They are dull, stupid and only learn what they absolutley have to. I have no idea what makes them tick. It's like seeing color and trying to imagine what the world lookos like to a color blind person.
I always thought I was not good at mathematics myself. Then, I realized I was just impatient and, in my youth, did not want to take the time to double check my answers. That's okay though...learning Calculus is on my bucket list.
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#446133 - 02/26/11 11:00 PM
Re: Realization of Intelligence as a child?
[Re: Furrtiv]
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Registered: 03/26/09
Posts: 123
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It seems like a new phenomenon, that it's seen as good to be an idiot, and that clever talented people are somehow "uncool" Look on the bright (dark?) side. It makes it that much easier for the Satanist to manipulate people. The strong rule over the weak and the cunning rule over all.
_________________________
Ignorance may be bliss, but knowledge is power.
-Me (I think)
Thanks to denial, I'm immortal.
-Fry Futurama
Crocodilians take better care of their young then a lot of parents I know.
-Dr. Brady Barr
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