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#447328 - 03/13/11 06:00 PM Re: Multiculturalism [Re: Liberterius]
skullunit Offline


Registered: 01/22/11
Posts: 37
Loc: "heavens waiting room"
Whatever ones position on "multiculturalism", I hope the understanding has been shaped by personal study and experience instead of the spin perpetrated in the media and government controlled schools. Lest we forget "The most dangerous of all enthroned lies is the holy, the sanctified, the privileged lie - the lie everyone believes to be a model truth. It is the fruitful mother of all other popular errors and delusions. It is a hydra-headed tree of unreason with a thousand roots. It is a social cancer!" -Book of Satan. ( this quote is for those who still have not read the Satanic Bible) There is a great deal of suppressed literature on the subject and many of the arguments are very compelling especially in light of the problems in the world today. It's hard to deny certain "conspiracy theories" when one can plainly see what is going on around him in part as a result of multiculturalism. Use the Internet while it's still free to learn the truth you will never hear in politically correct circles.
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#447340 - 03/13/11 11:50 PM Re: Multiculturalism [Re: J. Hagalaz]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Originally Posted By: JEHJr
First, I'd have to say that the most important thing to remember is that there are distinctions between race, ethnicity, and culture.


Righto, and they do tend to get blurred together.

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For example, developmental psychologists have found that daycare centers are the only places where children of different races come together.


Righto again---and, to balance that out, other studies (and people's personal experiences) have shown that children can be quite quick to pick up on differences, and then judge themselves and others based on them.

But, then, the next question is how the children decided which differences to focus in on---so, did they come upon something by themselves, or are they taking cues from the adults?

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By around age five, they have already begun to form schemas about race (as well as gender and other categorical variables). They recognize children of their own race easier than those of other races, and they have begun to acquire an understanding of certain racial stereotypes. This begs the question of how much of this is actually learned, and how much is inborn. For example, would a black child raised in a white foster home have an easier time recognizing white children, or black children?


I think that's a very good question! I think a large part of it would depend on how the child saw others reacting to "blackness," because that's often how both black and white kids develop negative schemas about blackness, and positive ones about whiteness.

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People will always identify with those who they PERCEIVE are most like themselves.


Absolutely.

Of course, from there, I think it is possible to shift or influence people's perceptions and appraisals of "similarity" and "difference."

So, I suppose I'm an optimistic-pessimist, in that while I believe you can't change the fundamental laws of human nature, I think you can certainly use them to your advantage. The laws aren't breakable, but they are quite bendable, thankfully.

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but we should realize by now that most people lack that sense of perspective. Those in power are often bound by a belief that their particular racial heritage is superior to everyone else (this is VERIFIABLE when you examine U.S. politics, in terms of those who control U.S. policies and their beliefs, but this really is not the appropriate forum for me to elaborate). Those at the bottom believe their victim status as an oppressed minority entitles them to one day gain a similar position of power, which of course they would use to mistreat, disenfranchise, and control those they perceive are not like themselves. This is what humans do. I know that there are probably no "pure" races. I also know that most people don't act on facts such as this. They act on emotions. "Our people"..."our kind"..."the black community"..."the future of our white children"...all of these are examples of some powerful motivators, and most people respond to them, even if not consciously.


Absolutely right. We need to be realistic about the variables other people see as salient or powerful, even though we may view them as petty or trivial. Denying these realities certainly won't make them go away, at least.
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"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#447482 - 03/15/11 02:48 PM Re: Multiculturalism [Re: MoongleMoose]
ConquerOrPerish Offline


Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 228
Loc: DC Metro Area
I have to disagree with you on that one.

In Australia there are riots against the Lebanese immigrants. The Sudanese immigrants have co-opted the label "black". They're black but to them black means striking an aggressive pose, which blue collar whites of Queensland find very offputting and which causes them to racially profile innocent blacks who were living there before.

Multiculturalism is a scourge. All immigrants should be encouraged to assimilate. How dare immigrants come to a foreign country and then start making demands on that country? They are abusing Western-style protesting and tradition of tolerance to demand that THEIR close-minded cultures be preserved in a new place. If they don't like the new ways, they shouldn't have come here or they should leave.
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#447508 - 03/15/11 06:44 PM Re: Multiculturalism [Re: Liberterius]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
In many countries, multiculturalism is not about immigrants, nor about indigenous populations. (Though if anyone has the right to complain about ill-behaved immigrants, it's Indians and aborigines.)

The word "multiculturalism" was invented to describe the situation of countries like Switzerland, Belgium, and Canada, where the main cultures were not newcomers. In these cases, assimilation is not an option, and neither is separation.

The meaning of the word has since spread to cover the situation of immigrants and indigenous people. The idea is, we know that people with different cultures can find a way to live together, because there are already countries where that happens. The problems have to do with how, precisely, that gets negotiated in the details. The devil is always in the details.


Edited by reprobate (03/15/11 06:44 PM)
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#447714 - 03/19/11 02:02 PM Re: Multiculturalism [Re: Liberterius]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/find...he-had-bad-week

Ah, the melting pot.

Having attended a school that was dominated by Asians I can understand the slight feeling of "where the heck am I?" But overall, most of the Asian kids I attend class with were just as wacky as I am which really never developed into anything noticeable.

I have made plenty of racist jokes in my day which is probably a result of the military. Join the military and watch the interesting inter-racial comradeship that takes place through rude jokes. It is astounding.

Of course there is a time and place to make those jokes and observations. I don't think Facebook is the place though.
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"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#447730 - 03/19/11 09:30 PM Re: Multiculturalism [Re: Liberterius]
Valtiel Offline


Registered: 03/19/11
Posts: 89
Loc: Hollywood
It's one of those subjects with no answer that doesn't invite argument.

I myself have acclimatized to living in the states, and can't say I don't complain about the differences all the time, and the differences between the US and my home country of England are mostly superficial anyway. People that come from more radically different cultures and distant parts of the world would of course be even more distanced from what they know and what they like. It's difficult to go anywhere and no want to bring your own world with you, unless you're trying to leave something behind I suppose.

Places that are multicultural by definition are strange. Parts of Arizona are trying so hard to be open to all things Spanish, and simultaneously be southwest America, and it all comes off as half-arsed in both respects. As soon as a town tries to adopt another culture all that seems to happen is those that belong to the original culture in question get offended at the imitation.
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#447745 - 03/20/11 12:17 AM Re: Multiculturalism [Re: Discipline]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Originally Posted By: Discipline
I have made plenty of racist jokes in my day which is probably a result of the military.


Ditto (except the military part, of course). Some jokes are funny because they're true. Some are funny because they're not true, and yet people think they are. Many are funny because they're true, but not for the reason the people who usually tell them in think they are. Most are funny because it's just fun to get away with something forbidden and scandalous.

I've been known to lob some particularly fiery zingers out in moments of anger or irritation--though, even then, I usually have the sense to save it for when I'm in the company of close friends and family!

But, I usually become uncomfortable when others' comments or jokes cross over into the territory of genuine hate and venom. So, I definitely have my limits.

Mostly, I'm just puzzled by this chick's comment, because I think most Americans have horrendously shitty phone manners. Well, and there's also that little detail about not all Asians being Japanese...

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Of course there is a time and place to make those jokes and observations. I don't think Facebook is the place though.


Oh, Hell no. Facebook is the last place to do that sort of thing. When will people learn? (Oh, right--never mind...)
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#447788 - 03/20/11 04:29 PM Re: Multiculturalism [Re: Liberterius]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
I'm reading a fascinating book called Nurture Shock, about common myths and misconceptions about child-rearing.

The chapter on race relations has even challenged and uprooted some of my own implicit assumptions about how one should go about teaching a child to be "tolerant:"

(Chapter starts on pg. 47)

http://books.google.com/books?id=AlknZbh...p;q&f=false

(The book can also be previewed through Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/NurtureShock-New-T...ader_0446504130)
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#448113 - 03/25/11 06:29 PM Re: Multiculturalism [Re: Liberterius]
cyanide Offline


Registered: 03/25/11
Posts: 38
Loc: USA
A friend of mine from Germany has told me that there is a huge problem in Germany with the Turkish people exactly for those reasons.

I disagree with the fact of immigrants having to accept ethical-political normality in a new country. To accept something normally entails embracing something with favor. I myself do not favor many politically or ethically acceptable public norms in this country and I was born and raised here. However, I do agree with the idea of 'live with it or get out.'

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Just they should recognize that they move here, they play by OUR rules. It pisses me off seeing people fly the flags of Puerto Rico or Mexico, but never an American flag even alongside with them.


I am an American because I was born and raised in the United States. But I don't take enough pride in this nation to want to fly the American flag. This country is simply my domicile. Were I to move to another country, unless it is required by law, I wouldn't fly their flag either.

I more so have a problem with immigrants coming here illegally and breaking our laws so they can have an easy and/or free ride as you mentioned.

And it's just a thought but I'd like to point out that we as Americans all too often criticize others for not assimilating to our standards and culture (or lack of). But a lot of Americans are not the most respectful persons of others standards and cultures when in their countries.

I don't like double standards.
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#448170 - 03/26/11 02:40 PM Re: Multiculturalism [Re: cyanide]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
When I worked in Germany I was living in a Turkish neighborhood. They were nice and their donners were delicious. I definitely noticed how much attention the Turk immigration was on the news while I was there. But overall, they seemed to integrate well. But I am not German and my time there was limited.

It was nice living in a Turkish neighborhood because they could relate with me as being an immigrant as well.
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#448177 - 03/26/11 05:50 PM Re: Multiculturalism [Re: Discipline]
cyanide Offline


Registered: 03/25/11
Posts: 38
Loc: USA
Well thank you. It could be like the stereotype of Mexicans in the US. Not that there is not a problem with Mexican immigrants however it tends to be exaggerated.


Edited by cyanide (03/26/11 05:52 PM)
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Polluters plague the world with two things: trash and laziness.

"I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions." -George Carlin

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#448206 - 03/27/11 04:42 AM Re: Multiculturalism [Re: Liberterius]
Nammu Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 10/18/09
Posts: 402
Loc: Pacific NW
Muslims move in next door? I'll adopt many dogs. Black dogs at that. coopdevil

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#448219 - 03/27/11 09:54 AM Re: Multiculturalism [Re: Nammu]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
And potbellied pigs!
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#448274 - 03/28/11 04:12 PM Re: Multiculturalism [Re: Liberterius]
Furrtiv Offline


Registered: 10/04/08
Posts: 112
Loc: Derbyshire, England
Have plenty of lovely barbeques! smile

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#448414 - 03/30/11 09:06 PM Re: Multiculturalism [Re: Liberterius]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8276
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