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#450571 - 04/28/11 08:52 AM Re: Multiculturalism [Re: verszou]
cyanide Offline


Registered: 03/25/11
Posts: 38
Loc: USA
It could not be used as a basis for any experiment. Going into great detail of how an experiment could be or should be done is not necessary. The point of the post is that various experiments COULD be done but I highly doubt the results would show SINclair's original claim. Using myself versus my Muslim mentor is viable because the original claim was that Muslims differ from any other human being. Obviously if actual, publishable, and legitimate research were to be conducted there would need to be random samples taken from a much broader population. Details about methodology, materials, sample sizes and numbers, statistics, and set up would need to be ironed out. That's not the point, especially as I said I would not be able to do the experiment even if I truly had interest in it.
There are never the less legal issues and 'ethics' I have to abide by in the science community. This type of experiment would be seen as discrimination as it is not testing for risk factors or statistics involved with a certain race but rather to test a 'prejudiced' notion that being a certain religion changes your chemical and genetic structure. It'd be the same as a member of the KKK doing experiments to prove caucasians are a superior being.

Personally, I don't have any sympathy for Muslims. I work with my professor because he is a brilliant researcher. And in science there is no need to bring up religion. I understand the distaste for the Muslim religion. But I don't deny they are human. After all I have more sympathy for our four legged furry friends than I do for any random human I meet.
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#450572 - 04/28/11 08:57 AM Re: Multiculturalism [Re: Zaftig]
cyanide Offline


Registered: 03/25/11
Posts: 38
Loc: USA
Thank you.

That is why I didn't even mention that part. Hygiene is a matter of choice and circumstance, not a genetic anomaly.

True people could sweat more often or eat foods that cause them to produce higher odors but they can also bathe more often.

Also it is not always possible to maintain hygiene, and standards of hygiene vary from country to country, region to region, and even *gasp* person to person.


Edited by cyanide (04/28/11 09:03 AM)
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#450573 - 04/28/11 09:20 AM Re: Multiculturalism [Re: Zaftig]
Bruja Offline

CoS Witch

Registered: 04/22/05
Posts: 2054
Loc: Atlanta, GA.
Originally Posted By: Zaftig


Although I applaud you for trying to provide a serious answer to a ridiculous suggestion, the entire premise stinks to high heaven. Or maybe it's just SINclair's upper lip?


I wouldn't throw out that possibility at all. It warrants deeper scientific research, my dear Witch Zaftig. wink

He made some sound points, which unsurprisingly were dismissed and tossed out for making too much damn sense. I'd have to go with verszou's best quote on this one regarding most of SINclair's arguments…

In general I would say that you are, as noted sceptic Dr. Steve Novella once said "Making the logical fallacy of pulling it out of your ass as you go along"
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#450575 - 04/28/11 09:43 AM Re: Multiculturalism [Re: Bruja]
Quaark Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 8898
Tangent "away-from-gross-stupidity" alert (but still on the subject of multiculturalism).

The first time I met some Muslims in a social setting.

At my apartment complex years ago. The apartment next to mine had been vacant for a week. I noticed a young couple moving in, so I went outside to say hello, ya know, be neighborly.

Handsome couple, nicely dressed, and I guessed Pakistani. He in a business suit, her in a dress with a scarf.

Neither seemed pleased about my introducing myself. He was grudgingly accepting of my hello and shook my hand, but when I put out my hand to shake hers, they froze and glared at me.

We stood that way for a few seconds, then they went back to moving their boxes in as if I was not there, or another word.

The next day I got a call from the apartment manager, who said that he had called to complain that I had made sexual advances towards his wife.

WTF?

Luckily for me, the apartment manager was a born-again Christian redneck from the South, and after I explained that the "sexual advances" consisted of an offer to shake hands...

The manager then extracted a promise from me to call the FBI if I noticed anything suspicious from them.

grin

When Muslim men let me photograph their wives and let their kids play with my dogs, we'll talk about multiculturalism.


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#450577 - 04/28/11 10:32 AM Re: Multiculturalism [Re: SINClair]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Quote:
Give me your personal experience reports.

I have lots of personal experience with Muslims that suggests you don't know what you're talking about.
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#450588 - 04/28/11 02:09 PM Re: Multiculturalism [Re: Nidhogg]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Quote:
You seem to confuse basic logic with political correctness.

Logic does not have to be politically correct, it just need to have internal consistency - which is why the scientific method works.


Aye.

Not to mention, just as what is popular is not always right, what is unpopular is not necessarily right, either.

Chronological and emotional teenagers will regularly use negative reactions as metal detectors for truth and self-esteem, and then pat themselves on the back for being too edgy for the herd, when they're actually just too stupid for words.

Black sheep are still sheep.
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#450591 - 04/28/11 04:33 PM Re: Multiculturalism [Re: SINClair]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11565
Loc: New England, USA
Originally Posted By: SINClair
Whether they were born Muslim, or converted later in life, the way their minds operate, must result in their bodies producing some sort of chemical response, that as a cycle, makes them a different species, from all other humans.

As others have pointed out, it's pretty clear that you don't have much of any knowledge of biology and especially biological evolution, to put it nicely. In fact, you seem to make a general habit of relentlessly arguing topics you don't know much about. But that's another story.

Science has a reasonably clear definition of what constitutes a biological species. In general, two organisms are of the same species if they're genetically similar enough to mate and produce fertile offspring (see Wikipedia's page for a layman's overview of the topic). Changes in "some sort of chemical responses" that may go on within an organism, does not go so far as to change that individual organism's species. Otherwise, taking an aspirin or even watching a sad movie would change you to a "different species". That's not how it works.

So all we really need to do is find a human with a pair of biological grandparents of whom one was a Muslim, and the other one wasn't. This would immediately disprove your absurd claim that Muslims are different species from homo sapiens. Considering there are about 1.4 billion living Muslims on the planet, this shouldn't be too impossible.

Quote:
This chemical response of their bodies, to their minds, even produce a distinct stench, a terribly bad odour, that only a member of the Muslim species expel through their pores.

Let's assume that all of these juvenile assumptions of yours are genetically true (though they aren't). Do you consider Caucasian rural Christians, Chinese mountain-top Buddhists, and native African bushmen to be three distinctly different species? If no, then this begs the question of why the same reasoning that you apply to Muslims doesn't apply to these other groups. If yes, then once again, you have absolutely no clue what the term 'species' means, and you're ignorantly and dishonestly trying to change the definition.

Quote:
Again, I am pretty sure that if a research was conducted on this, the Muslim would indeed classify as a different species, of some sort of sub-human variety.

That's your own wishful thinking. Read a biology book.

Quote:
In any case, Islamism [sic] is far, very far from being merely a religion.

Even if you want to stretch the meaning of "Islam" to include additional ideologies, dress code, a form of government, etc., it's still completely unfounded and beyond ignorant to call it a new biological species. Nevermind the fact that Islam hasn't been around for more than 1500 years. That's hardly enough time to see the evolution of an entirely new hominid species.
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#450592 - 04/28/11 04:54 PM Re: Multiculturalism [Re: SINClair]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10143
I have about as much innate dislike of Muslims, Arabs, and the whole fucking shebang as anyone you'll meet.

Yet even I think this is a raging dumpster fire of stupidity.

I can say with some confidence that the average grade schooler understands biology better than you.
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#450593 - 04/28/11 05:00 PM Re: Multiculturalism [Re: cyanide]
SINClair Offline


Registered: 10/06/08
Posts: 320
Loc: Europe
I don't think it is genetic nor molecular. I think it is a chemical response of the brain.

Would a chemical response of the brain, involve anything to do with molecules? No idea. Indeed, I do suck terribly at biology. BUT, me not knowing what a phenomenon is called, does not make the phenomenon any less real.
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#450594 - 04/28/11 05:12 PM Re: Multiculturalism [Re: Nidhogg]
SINClair Offline


Registered: 10/06/08
Posts: 320
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: Thyrn
people that were messaging me calling me an idiot and oh noes a "racist" simply because I acknowledge racial difference and the connection between race and culture and yes even odour, now have quotes from Adolf Hitler(ha ha) in their signatures


Who is quoting Adolf Hitler in their signatures? Just curious.
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#450595 - 04/28/11 05:18 PM Re: Multiculturalism [Re: Bill_M]
SINClair Offline


Registered: 10/06/08
Posts: 320
Loc: Europe
Flippin' 'eck. This ain't the first time you keep a tap (or shall I say, a tag) on me. All that trouble. grin
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#450599 - 04/28/11 05:59 PM Re: Multiculturalism [Re: Zaftig]
SINClair Offline


Registered: 10/06/08
Posts: 320
Loc: Europe
The thing is. The poster I was replying to, is typing from Denmark, a country where the Muslim population is very small. What he/she said in the post, sounded like a conclusion taken upon reading articles on the subject. Articles written about Islam and/or Muslims, are always very, very carefully measured words. No one ever dares to question anything about Islam and Muslims, for fear of being called racists.

So you can read about Islam and the Muslims, but what you read about it, is bound to be limited information.

Now, when you are exposed to the subject, first hand, any subject for that matter, when you are exposed to it first hand, you may turn out to have a slightly different opinion. Such as my case, in this case.
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#450601 - 04/28/11 06:14 PM Re: Multiculturalism [Re: SINClair]
Zaftig Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 3409
I am consistently exposed to Muslims of all sorts, in a variety of ways (socially, academically, politically, personally). Perhaps more than almost anyone on this forum, barring those who live in Muslim countries. I would agree that discourse surrounding Islam is heavenly laden with apologetics, political correctness, and a misunderstanding of the historical precedents.

Your claims are still ridiculous.

To be clear: I am entirely unconcerned about whether or not you despise Muslims. That is your business.

What everyone is pointing out is that your arguments about biological differences are colossally stupid.

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#450604 - 04/28/11 06:40 PM Re: Multiculturalism [Re: Zaftig]
SINClair Offline


Registered: 10/06/08
Posts: 320
Loc: Europe
Of course you would all think my claim is stupid. I am merely brushing over the subject. In order to gain any agreements to my view, I'd have to elaborate on my hypothesis, and relate a number of scenarios which I have observed that led me to conclude as much. Fair enough indeed.

I am not going to bother however, because those who like to argue for the sake of practising debate skills, will argue against all given hypothesis. Hypothesis are generally the easiest of things to dispute.

In any case, if I remember correctly, I have read a post by you somewhere in these Forums some time ago, where you stated where you were from in America... I cannot recall where exactly, but I am pretty sure my memory isn't failing me, when it recalls that you hail from America.

Nowhere in America has a bigger Muslim population than some places here in the UK.

Unless you do some sort of work in a mosque.
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#450605 - 04/28/11 06:53 PM Re: Multiculturalism [Re: SINClair]
HellofallHells Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 11/01/05
Posts: 3524
Quote:
Of course you would all think my claim is stupid. I am merely brushing over the subject. In order to gain any agreements to my view, I'd have to elaborate on my hypothesis, and relate a number of scenarios which I have observed that led me to conclude as much.


Oh, well, in that case please elaborate.
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