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#450606 - 04/28/11 07:04 PM Re: Multiculturalism [Re: SINClair]
cyanide Offline


Registered: 03/25/11
Posts: 38
Loc: USA
To oversimplify this issue, normally a chemical change in the brain constitutes not only a feeling of emotion, but in extreme cases, a mental illness. These changes can happen in any human and as far as the emotions go, they happen on a daily basis.

When someone refers to something on the molecular level they are talking about the chemistry of that matter.

If you did not know that is fine, but as the moderators have pointed out already, you should not defend a point unless you truly understand what it is you are defending.
Just to let you know I SUCK at biology in my own opinion but I still look at what I have learned from biology courses and I still do research to be sure I do not defend a point I know nothing about.

I AM, however, a Chemist and I can tell you that a chemical change in the brain or anywhere in the body does not turn someone from being homo sapien into a different animal. It does perhaps make them a shitty excuse for a human, but still a human none the less. I agree that a lot of muslims have shit for emotions or brains, but I think people of any religion have that issue.
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Polluters plague the world with two things: trash and laziness.

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#450607 - 04/28/11 07:07 PM Re: Multiculturalism [Re: HellofallHells]
SINClair Offline


Registered: 10/06/08
Posts: 320
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: HellofallHells
Quote:
Of course you would all think my claim is stupid. I am merely brushing over the subject. In order to gain any agreements to my view, I'd have to elaborate on my hypothesis, and relate a number of scenarios which I have observed that led me to conclude as much.


Oh, well, in that case please elaborate.


Why did you choose to ignore this part:

Originally Posted By: SINClair


I am not going to bother however, because those who like to argue for the sake of practising debate skills, will argue against all given hypothesis. Hypothesis are generally the easiest of things to dispute.
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#450608 - 04/28/11 07:09 PM Re: Multiculturalism [Re: SINClair]
Zaftig Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 3406
I am from Canada. I live in one of the most ethnically diverse areas in North America.

I am also actively engaged in the academic study of religion. Islam is not my primary area of study, but I am engaged in discussions with colleagues who study Islam, have read texts, taken classes, attended lectures, and produced work on Islam. I have a particular interest in how the rhetoric of multiculturalism is framed as it relates to the polarizing concepts of demonization versus apologetics. I think both are rather flawed, and ignore the more base emotions at play.

Scenarios about stinky people you have met is not evidence of a separate biological species.

But now the dead horse is pleading to cease my beatings.

Here's something that you may understand:

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#450611 - 04/28/11 07:19 PM Re: Multiculturalism [Re: SINClair]
cyanide Offline


Registered: 03/25/11
Posts: 38
Loc: USA
Any hypothesis can be proven null and void. That is the point of experimentation. I think it would be difficult for someone lacking a science background to attempt a credible experiment to prove what you'd like to prove. As there is no scientific evidence, which is the only way to prove this, you can be and have been proven wrong until further research is conducted.

Personal feelings against a group of people does not prove or justify opinions against cold hard facts.
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Polluters plague the world with two things: trash and laziness.

"I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions." -George Carlin

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#450612 - 04/28/11 07:21 PM Re: Multiculturalism [Re: SINClair]
HellofallHells Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 11/01/05
Posts: 3524
Oops, silly me.
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Hell of All Hells

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#450613 - 04/28/11 07:23 PM Re: Multiculturalism [Re: Zaftig]
cyanide Offline


Registered: 03/25/11
Posts: 38
Loc: USA
smile Agreed!

The horse is beyond beaten to a pulp.

That is an adorable picture of a rabbit by the way!
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Polluters plague the world with two things: trash and laziness.

"I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions." -George Carlin

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#450616 - 04/28/11 08:00 PM Re: Multiculturalism [Re: Zaftig]
SINClair Offline


Registered: 10/06/08
Posts: 320
Loc: Europe
Ethnically diverse, you said. Not Muslim. Ethnically diverse means a variety of ethnicities. Not the single one in question, the Muslim. That was like referring to a group of Muslim people, as a multicultural group of people, when the Muslim consist of only one single culture, not several different cultures, to be called "multi".

You engage in discussions with people who study Islam, in other words, none of the parts chatting about what they read on books, have direct contact with these Muslim people, to have the slightest clue how they behave, how they live, what they are like.

You would need to spend some time around these people to conclude whether my claims have any foundation or not.

The picture of a rabbit with a pancake on its head is supposed to have any standard meaning, or you're just guessing that I would particularly get it? Well, it's completely off the wall, and if it is supposed to be funny, it's gotta be aimed at small minded folks, as they say, folks easy to amuse.
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#450617 - 04/28/11 08:10 PM Re: Multiculturalism [Re: SINClair]
Quaark Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 8840
I stand in total awe of your epic inability to understand anything.

No matter how clearly explained.

It's quite impressive, actually.

Recent movie reference warning you won't get but others will.

It's like you've taken a handful of "anti-NZT".

Now, to all the people who are interacting in-depth with SINclair...

WHY?*

*This is not an official Mod admonition to cease, but a sincere query born of genuine curiosity!

wink
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T’aa hwo’ aaji t’eego.

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#450619 - 04/28/11 08:20 PM Re: Multiculturalism [Re: Quaark]
SINClair Offline


Registered: 10/06/08
Posts: 320
Loc: Europe
What is the point in jumping into a discussion, with nothing but personal attacks?

I think that is very childish.

What is so terribly wrong with me viewing the Muslim as a species of their own?

I am being civil whilst discussing my view.
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#450627 - 04/28/11 09:46 PM Re: Multiculturalism [Re: Quaark]
cyanide Offline


Registered: 03/25/11
Posts: 38
Loc: USA
:] I just hate when people throw the word science into shit it has nothing to do with. But I agree that the horse is dead and there's no point in continuing to mutilate its remains.
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Polluters plague the world with two things: trash and laziness.

"I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions." -George Carlin

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#450629 - 04/28/11 11:13 PM Re: Multiculturalism [Re: SINClair]
Liberterius Offline


Registered: 01/06/10
Posts: 241
Originally Posted By: SINClair
What is the point in jumping into a discussion, with nothing but personal attacks?

I think that is very childish.

What is so terribly wrong with me viewing the Muslim as a species of their own?

I am being civil whilst discussing my view.


What is so terribly wrong with me thinking the world is going to end in 2012?

What is so terribly wrong with me believing that the Reptilians have infiltrated our government at the highest level and are creating Reptile/Human hybrids as sleeper cells to activate when their invasion fleet arrives?

What is so terribly wrong with me thinking lead is good for my brain?

What is so terribly wrong with me believing in a giant invisible man in the sky with a long white beard and sandals who watches the lives of every human being and keeps score of their good deeds and sins?

Oh wait, because I can't support any of those things with scientific evidence! (Except the lizard people one. wink )

Really, ok SINClair, I disagree with Daark that you're a complete moron with whom we shouldn't interact.

BUT you're being very foolish on this topic, to put it mildly:
Muslims can reproduce to make fertile offspring with any other fertile human of the opposite gender.

That makes them the same species as us.

Do I find their culture, and a great many of them, to be bigoted, oppressive of women, irrational, violent, small-minded, and ineffectually tribal?

Hell yes.

But humans can convert to being Muslims, and Muslims can leave Islam. Both of those have happened many many millions of times.

By the way everyone, this has been a very good topic until these last couple pages about weird... supposed biology and sociology connections.

I know I started it so forgive my being quiet but trust me I've been lurking and found the discussion interesting!

I agree with Phineas that multiculturalism cannot be forced; the individuals forming the society must be willing to tolerate things the other people in their society say and do, within the extent of that being part of a civil culture...which is where we still may run into problems over who defines social etiquette, standards, and societal roles.

Personally, what I see as ideal is a cosmopolitan culture which allows females full freedom as men, allows any language, has loose clothing guidelines, (people can look at others weird but tolerate it) freedom of religion, sexual freedom, freedom of speech (including vulgarity) and laws, courts, and police strong enough to stop people from infringing on the rights of others in all these regards, and stop the power of violent gangs. (Something they could do better in many cities such as mine...)

Then I have my preferences of politics and what I consider personally to be good work and life ethic, but that's a topic for another day and much of it left to the individuals in the society

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#450630 - 04/28/11 11:17 PM Re: Multiculturalism [Re: Zaftig]
Liberterius Offline


Registered: 01/06/10
Posts: 241
By the way Zaftig...

http://images.quickblogcast.com/0/4/5/4/5/163698-154540/PC191912_edited.JPG

Also just to make this post actually constructive;

On the topic of race, I feel that religion > race > ethnicity.

Out of these, religion is most likely to affect peoples' behavior, both as individuals and as groups.

To many (FAR from all, or probably even most) religious people, especially in Western cultures, religion guides them a lot more in their choice of interaction and world-view more than perceived physical racial characteristics. I would cite that evangelical Christians and more radical Muslims simply don't talk about race or ethnicity all that much. Does that mean none of them are "racist?"

Certainly not, but it is NOT their primary means of identification; religion trumps it.

Why did I put "race" and "ethnicity" as different?

Race is more socially constructed and its the one easier with which to culturally identify; it isn't based purely on genetic bloodlines, but on strong cultural identification other than religion, though it also INCLUDES physical characteristics.

There is a fine line, but there is a line there.

For example, white Europeans could in many systems of categorization be considered a single ethnicity, but I would cite through most of their history (it has been weakened in the past 50 years or so) the European kingdoms and then nations and them empires were led by distinct races: the French, the Anglo-Saxons, (although not untied until late in the game)the Germans, the Russians. (no they're not all Slavs; many light skinned blonde haired Russians.)

Similarly, there is definitely a Japanese race and Jewish race which go stronger than ethnicity...I would go so far as to consider the Japanese race to be the "strongest" on the planet, in terms of unity of purpose, cohesion, and endurance. (The Japanese have been "Japanese," as a single people, with a single culture, for many centuries, and still have a strong united identity within their country, in no small part due to its ethnic homogeneity.)

Ethnicity is weaker...but may overpower race in some cases, for example in the US there is weakly a cultural "American race," and then ethnicities of very different culture and often language are stronger identifiers for people than that race. There is a shared American culture, and I don't mean just white dominated...and it makes a shared American race to some extent, but ethnicities within the US are greater identifiers still than an American race. (Though American nationality is different and far more commonly expressed with pride, though that alone doesn't make a race.)

As a Satanist, I do my hardest and generally succeed greatly in rising above the terms of race and nationality by which many judge each other; I am Myself and then a Satanist and THEN an American.

I judge others on their merit and actions; not their breeding. I'm not ashamed to admit that I also judge different cultures by the same standards as people and will criticize them and their followers as such; I can see many superior qualities in some cultures, in different points of time, over other cultures in their own points of time.

I do enjoy seeing many of the more neutral and trivial aspects of culture though, just for the interest factor and the variety of...things humans do.




Edited by Liberterius (04/28/11 11:43 PM)

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#450631 - 04/28/11 11:35 PM Re: Multiculturalism [Re: Liberterius]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Mind you, I'm perfectly fine with words like "breed," "type," and "species" being used METAPHORICALLY. But,that's not what's happening here.

I just take exception to the claim that Muslims somehow possess a greater capacity for shittiness than other human beings, when shittiness seems to be pretty well distributed across the whole human species.

And that's all she wrote smile.
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#450632 - 04/28/11 11:42 PM Re: Multiculturalism [Re: Liberterius]
WolfMoon Offline


Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 735
For the love of Satan can someone please lock this thread? crazy

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#450633 - 04/28/11 11:42 PM Re: Multiculturalism [Re: Quaark]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
Quote:
Now, to all the people who are interacting in-depth with SINclair...

WHY?*


I just like to sit back and laugh my ass off at what she says. Simply HILARIOUS!!!!!
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