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#453183 - 06/01/11 02:58 PM Keeping rituals a secret?
Hatred_Incarnate Offline


Registered: 03/26/09
Posts: 124
I believe it's in The Satanic Bible that Anton LaVey said secrets are powerful things, which I agree with. He also says in regards to a destruction ritual to let the victim scoff at the magic and don't try to convince him otherwise, or to enlighten him.

My question is if you tell someone of a curse does it lessen its effectiveness? And what about a blessing/lust ritual? The reason I ask is my girlfriend knows I'm a Satanist and is ok about that, but she is VERY curious as to the rituals I do and what they're specifically for. I tell her they're blessing rituals since that's all I do, but I'm not sure if anything further then that will make a ritual less powerful or negate it or something. I want to tell her more in detail, but if it puts the effectiveness in jeopardy I don't want to. I've explained that I'm not sure about this either so she isn't as persistent as she used to be. It would be nice to tell her though.

Many thanks in advance.
_________________________
Ignorance may be bliss, but knowledge is power.
-Me (I think)
Thanks to denial, I'm immortal.
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Crocodilians take better care of their young then a lot of parents I know.
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#453194 - 06/01/11 07:17 PM Re: Keeping rituals a secret? [Re: Hatred_Incarnate]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8262
There are too many variables to be able to provide a definitive answer.

In depth discussions on such subject matter is reserved for the Membership areas, though.

I would err on the side of keeping it to yourself. Just a suggestion.
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#454372 - 06/19/11 01:11 PM Re: Keeping rituals a secret? [Re: Hatred_Incarnate]
Matthew Miles Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/15/10
Posts: 35
Loc: Ghent, NY
I agree with Magister Phineas on keeping it to yourself. My girlfriend knows I am a Satanist as well, but I don't really do rituals- I "make magic" in other ways.

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#454407 - 06/19/11 10:11 PM Re: Keeping rituals a secret? [Re: Hatred_Incarnate]
Kernel Offline


Registered: 04/20/11
Posts: 71
Loc: Nothern Europe
@Matthew Miles: So you casually dismiss 1/2 of the Satanic Bible?
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#454416 - 06/20/11 05:12 AM Re: Keeping rituals a secret? [Re: Hatred_Incarnate]
ABZU Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 10/21/04
Posts: 1226
Loc: Oregon
I wouldn't tell anyone unless they were participating in the ritual with me.

The Importance of Keeping a Secret essay is in The Devil's Notebook.
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Warlock ABZU

Church of Satan

"As I have stated, the paradox where more people are "talking" dark forces up, down, and sideways, but fewer than ever are actually living as night people, provokes speculation. The moral here is that when everybody's talking, very few are doing. More time is spent comparing notes with aficionados than in enjoying the hobby per se."
A.S.L. / T.D.N.

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#454419 - 06/20/11 07:17 AM Re: Keeping rituals a secret? [Re: Kernel]
Shade Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/08/06
Posts: 6135
Loc: A Trailer Park
Originally Posted By: Kernel
So you casually dismiss 1/2 of the Satanic Bible?


zombie

Presumptuous, baiting, rude... in less than ten words. Your self righteous indignation won't change the fact that the answer to your question is firmly filed under, "None of Your Business."

Jesus christ, people. Manners.
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#454432 - 06/20/11 11:22 AM Re: Keeping rituals a secret? [Re: Kernel]
verszou Offline



Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 1812
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: Kernel
@Matthew Miles: So you casually dismiss 1/2 of the Satanic Bible?


I've seen this used a couple of times, and it seems like a strange metric to me - the nine Satanic statements is one page out of 272 in the edition I have ... less than one percent, so what does that say about their importance then, if one goes by that way of measuring things?

Given the same logic, one can then add "The Satanic Rituals" and say that people are dismissing 3/4 of two books.

I do get that it is used as a way to convey the perceived importance from the perspective of those who use it, but I don't really get the underlying logic.
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While having never invented a sin, I'm trying to perfect several.

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#454445 - 06/20/11 01:22 PM Re: Keeping rituals a secret? [Re: verszou]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11547
Loc: New England, USA
Originally Posted By: verszou
I've seen this used a couple of times, and it seems like a strange metric to me

I've used similar figures myself, and I don't see what's so strange about it. I've already explained my take on this dozens of times, whether it was here, zine articles, radio interviews, etc.:

http://www.satannet.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=401490#Post401490
http://www.satannet.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=451579#Post451579

Am I saying that the "importance" of an aspect of Satanism is directly proportional to the number of Satanic Bibles pages that relate to it? No, of course not.
Is the standard 13-step Satanic ritual the only way to ritualize? No, of course not.
If a would-be Satanist focuses entirely on the ritual chamber, are they missing the point? Yes, of course -- though that problem happens much more rarely than some would have us assume.
But I still stand by my point that people who entirely dismiss formalized ritual, without ever even giving a try, need to stop and consider why they're dismissing all but 40 pages of LaVey's first two books.

Having said all that, I did find Kernal's direct question to be rather accusatory and out of place. I'm not going to jump to conclusions about Matthew's personal history with Satanic ritual.
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#454448 - 06/20/11 01:31 PM Re: Keeping rituals a secret? [Re: Hatred_Incarnate]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11547
Loc: New England, USA
Originally Posted By: Hatred_Incarnate
My question is if you tell someone of a curse does it lessen its effectiveness? And what about a blessing/lust ritual?

As with most things regarding magic, it depends. Personally I think a lot of it comes down to how important the esoteric aspect is to you. Here's something I would suggest considering: if your girlfriend has a negative reaction to it, do you think that could emotionally effect you? It's easy to say "no", but you don't want to get any counter-productive ideas in your head about what you're doing.

In any case, I don't really see the harm in keeping quiet!
_________________________
Reverend Bill M.

http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
New hour every week. Download the mp3 now!

http://www.aplaceformystuff.org: Tales of Combat Clutter and other Adventures

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#454459 - 06/20/11 02:38 PM Re: Keeping rituals a secret? [Re: Bill_M]
verszou Offline



Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 1812
Loc: Denmark


Originally Posted By: Bill_M

Having said all that, I did find Kernal's direct question to be rather accusatory and out of place. I'm not going to jump to conclusions about Matthew's personal history with Satanic ritual.


I remember reading it before, but at the time it was in a larger context, so at the time I didn't react to it the way I did when seeing it by itself.

Thank you for elaborating on the subject again.
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While having never invented a sin, I'm trying to perfect several.

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#454472 - 06/20/11 06:01 PM Re: Keeping rituals a secret? [Re: Shade]
Kernel Offline


Registered: 04/20/11
Posts: 71
Loc: Nothern Europe
Originally Posted By: Shade
Originally Posted By: Kernel
So you casually dismiss 1/2 of the Satanic Bible?


zombie

Presumptuous, baiting, rude... in less than ten words. Your self righteous indignation won't change the fact that the answer to your question is firmly filed under, "None of Your Business."

Jesus christ, people. Manners.


It was mainly a question. I am curious after all. I wish to know, because it is half of the Book after all. It took me some time to process everything, and so I am asking - I do not like basking in ignorance. Yes I understand your point, I try to correct this the best I can - I am a straight person, it has been said to me many times, but being straight is better in the end.. I have noticed in my life. At least there's no misunderstandings.

On the topic itself: I'd like to keep rituals in secret. Like someone said earlier, LaVey says in Devil's Notebook that secrecy is the key so to speak. If I'm in a cramped conditions I may say something to my love so that he knows to not interrupt me, other than that, saying nothing.
_________________________
"It's not what we were or what we will be, it is what we are now that makes all the difference and the potential we have at this moment to become even greater."

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#454474 - 06/20/11 06:27 PM Re: Keeping rituals a secret? [Re: ABZU]
Hatred_Incarnate Offline


Registered: 03/26/09
Posts: 124
Originally Posted By: ABZU
The Importance of Keeping a Secret essay is in The Devil's Notebook.


I actually just reread The Devil's Notebook and saw that about a week ago. I knew I had seen it somewhere, I just didn't think to check in that book. After reading that and seeing the responses here I will just keep it to myself. I do let her know when I'm doing a ritual so she doesn't barge in or something. (Having the smoke detector go off one time was bad enough.)
_________________________
Ignorance may be bliss, but knowledge is power.
-Me (I think)
Thanks to denial, I'm immortal.
-Fry Futurama
Crocodilians take better care of their young then a lot of parents I know.
-Dr. Brady Barr

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#456284 - 07/20/11 01:16 AM Re: Keeping rituals a secret? [Re: Hatred_Incarnate]
Pablovilla Offline



Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 267
Loc: Victorville, California
Originally Posted By: Hatred_Incarnate
I believe it's in The Satanic Bible that Anton LaVey said secrets are powerful things, which I agree with. He also says in regards to a destruction ritual to let the victim scoff at the magic and don't try to convince him otherwise, or to enlighten him.

My question is if you tell someone of a curse does it lessen its effectiveness? And what about a blessing/lust ritual? The reason I ask is my girlfriend knows I'm a Satanist and is ok about that, but she is VERY curious as to the rituals I do and what they're specifically for. I tell her they're blessing rituals since that's all I do, but I'm not sure if anything further then that will make a ritual less powerful or negate it or something. I want to tell her more in detail, but if it puts the effectiveness in jeopardy I don't want to. I've explained that I'm not sure about this either so she isn't as persistent as she used to be. It would be nice to tell her though.

Many thanks in advance.


For the most part it is always best to keep things quiet, and not to say to much about any ritual. One really good reason is that in some point in the future it could be used against you. This is a topic that is also discussed in right hand path books and magazines and forums. Just mentioning that fact hopefully make my point and going along with the posts of others here I agree with.

Just mention if at some point in the future there is a custody battle, of if you get into a divorce with someone they can use the information against you. Even though it is said that this is a free country it is not really true for the most part. It is not really a freedom if it can be taken away from you.

I have known many that have been married and as part of the divorce typically a restraining order is put in place by the lawyer of the other party, this means that all that they learn about you that is not "of the majority in beliefs, or religious practice" will be used against you. Just think of how bad Mormons, Wiccans and other white light religions are treated by the courts, expand this to think about how a Satanist will be treated. You get my point?

I learned a long time ago that if I'm going to have a job anywhere and there are Christians, that I need to know about their faith better than they do so there will be no problems.
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Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result - Ben Franklin

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#456309 - 07/20/11 12:02 PM Re: Keeping rituals a secret? [Re: Pablovilla]
Lamar Drummer Offline


Registered: 09/16/10
Posts: 133
Loc: Alabama
Originally Posted By: paul_r

I learned a long time ago that if I'm going to have a job anywhere and there are Christians, that I need to know about their faith better than they do so there will be no problems.

I typically do not engage in religious discussions with people of a different religious perspective, anymore. I choose to keep my religious affiliation secret and when a certain individual at the job insists on such discussions a polite "I'd rather not talk about that" seems to work fine for me. I've found that one cannot have an intelligent religious conversation with the majority of Christians out there today.
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#456331 - 07/21/11 01:19 AM Re: Keeping rituals a secret? [Re: Pablovilla]
Hatred_Incarnate Offline


Registered: 03/26/09
Posts: 124
Originally Posted By: paul_r
Even though it is said that this is a free country it is not really true for the most part. It is not really a freedom if it can be taken away from you....

...I learned a long time ago that if I'm going to have a job anywhere and there are Christians, that I need to know about their faith better than they do so there will be no problems.



This is very true. I finally got my hands on The Satanic Scriptures a month or two ago and the chapter concerning the West Memphis Three really emphasizes these two points.

And the only time I talk about religion is on here and with close friends, but that's very rare and light hearted. Most of my friends live more Satanically then whichever religion they claim to practice. And even most of them only know that I'm an atheist because that's all they need to know.
_________________________
Ignorance may be bliss, but knowledge is power.
-Me (I think)
Thanks to denial, I'm immortal.
-Fry Futurama
Crocodilians take better care of their young then a lot of parents I know.
-Dr. Brady Barr

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#456627 - 07/25/11 04:02 AM Re: Keeping rituals a secret? [Re: Lamar Drummer]
Pablovilla Offline



Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 267
Loc: Victorville, California
Originally Posted By: Lamar Drummer
Originally Posted By: paul_r

I learned a long time ago that if I'm going to have a job anywhere and there are Christians, that I need to know about their faith better than they do so there will be no problems.

I typically do not engage in religious discussions with people of a different religious perspective, anymore. I choose to keep my religious affiliation secret and when a certain individual at the job insists on such discussions a polite "I'd rather not talk about that" seems to work fine for me. I've found that one cannot have an intelligent religious conversation with the majority of Christians out there today.


There are many that call themselves Christians, that do go to church every Sunday (or Saturday), but they really do not have a clue as to what the bible really says, and the same applies to other religions as well.

However the problem is not so much the religion, but the fact that they are not willing to think for themselves, they listen to others for what to believe. Also you are correct when encountering such people there is only one way to deal with them and that is not to talk about anything with them that requires much deep thinking on their part. After all putting forth anything that does not exactly fit with their beliefs, they will take it as a personal attack, but the educated people will think that God sent you to test their faith. Neither is a good place to put yourself.
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Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result - Ben Franklin

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