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#453803 - 06/10/11 01:46 PM Satanic Rule of the Earth # 10
Zsche Offline



Registered: 04/17/09
Posts: 158
Loc: Where the 5.56 casings fall...
“Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.”

The groundhog, woodchuck, whistle-pig, land beaver, or marmota monax bears two to six young per year. They are primarily herbivores and can destroy a garden in no time at all, as well as cause massive damage the landscape by creating countless holes for burrows.

I currently have at least five of these creatures residing on my property. They are eating everything that I plant - and making so many holes that it is becoming dangerous to walk around the property. My daughter already accidentally stepped into one of the holes at dusk one evening and twisted her ankle– not knowing it was there.

I love domesticated animals and wildlife, but these things are nothing but a nuisance to me and are getting out of hand. Personally – I’m considering myself under attack. Five groundhogs this year could mean 10 – 30 next year… I’m not planning on eating them even though some claim they are really tasty by the many recipes I have found online.

From a Satanic point of view - Do you think I am justified in eradicating this species from my property?

Opinions are welcomed -
_________________________
Originally Posted By: Phineas
My suggestion to you, besides obtaining a copy of The Satanic Bible and reading it, is to immerse yourself in the information contained at the Church of Satan website.

Originally Posted By: Hagen von Tronje
You can't guzzle whiskey and pinch pretty ladies' asses when you're dead.

Originally Posted By: Roho_the_Rooster
Love life. Live life. Don't fuck with people unnecessarily. Don"t let other people fuck with you. Simple guidelines that that will help you to make informed, intelligent and Satanic decisions.

Originally Posted By: Callier
Constructive criticism is one thing but people that just point blank tell others what they should be doing with their lives without any kind of permission can eat a bag of hairy balls.

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#453805 - 06/10/11 01:57 PM Re: Satanic Rule of the Earth # 10 [Re: Zsche]
Direktor Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/12/08
Posts: 499
Perhaps you should explore alternative methods to steer them away before resorting to wiping them off the planet.

I've had a garden for years and have rabbits and groundhogs run about which have never bothered it. I feed them though, too.

Definitely not my area of expertise but maybe relocating your garden or putting up a fence. I think there's also certain organic fragrances made to repel them. The only time I'd personally consider killing a wild animal would be if it were rabid and showed blatant hostility. I just think there's always other avenues you could take.

And groundhogs are tasty. wink

HS!
_________________________
"A complete education in Satanic philosophy is available at your local video store."
-Magistra Blanche Barton, The Church of Satan


"I have studied many philosophers and many cats. The wisdom of cats is infinitely superior."
-Hippolyte Taine



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#453808 - 06/10/11 02:23 PM Re: Satanic Rule of the Earth # 10 [Re: Zsche]
Lust Offline


Registered: 11/02/05
Posts: 4214
Originally Posted By: Zsche
From a Satanic point of view - Do you think I am justified in eradicating this species from my property?

Opinions are welcomed -


See Rule #4
_________________________
�Love is one of the most intense feelings felt by man; another is hate. Forcing yourself to feel indiscriminate love is very unnatural. If you try to love everyone you only lessen your feelings for those who deserve your love. Repressed hatred can lead to many physical and emotional aliments. By learning to release your hatred towards those who deserve it, you cleanse yourself of these malignant emotions and need not take your pent-up hatred out on your loved ones.�
Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible

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#453809 - 06/10/11 02:24 PM Re: Satanic Rule of the Earth # 10 [Re: Zsche]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
I interpret this rule somewhat loosely, to allow for the protection of my safety and property, as long as it is done as humanely as practicable. The point of the rule is to prohibit cruelty to animals, and especially animal sacrifices.
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reprobate

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#453810 - 06/10/11 02:49 PM Re: Satanic Rule of the Earth # 10 [Re: Lust]
Quaark Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 8872
Originally Posted By: Tier Instinct
Originally Posted By: Zsche
From a Satanic point of view - Do you think I am justified in eradicating this species from my property?

Opinions are welcomed -


See Rule #4


Uh, no.

Rule 4 applies to humans.
_________________________
T’aa hwo’ aaji t’eego.

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#453811 - 06/10/11 02:58 PM Re: Satanic Rule of the Earth # 10 [Re: Zsche]
verszou Offline



Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 1813
Loc: Denmark
I'd agree with Reprobate.

Depending on how you interpret the rule yourself (and that should really be what matters to you) you could say that the point is not to kill them, but to ensure that they are not attracted to your property.

I have no real knowledge of these animals, but some schemes I've read about where people didn't want to use poisons etc. often involve ways to restrict access to food, taking advantage of any natural predators they might fear etc.

But if none of these options present themselves I'd say you should do what is needed.

I'd guess that on a philosophical level you could say that nature would regulate the population by itself via things like predators and availability of food. But in areas cultivated by humans these mechanisms are working differently. For instance in my country we see foxes moving into the cities, because thanks to garbage cans and our general wastefulness conditions are better there.

Do we kill them for that? I'm not sure we need to, but on the other hand we may not know what diseases or other changes they will bring to the area.

We have to face a similar conundrum over what is called "invasive species", because we now live in a global environment where one species can hitch a ride on a container shipped from the other side of the globe and land in a place where it has no natural enemy. We currently have that problem with Iberian snails (dubbed "killer snails" by the media - very telling of how peaceful this country is smile ). They destroy gardens and really don't contribute to the food chain, while they are threatening the normal population of snails that we already have.

So which do we kill and which do we keep? Do we introduce birds to eat the snails and then end up wiping out the original species in the process?

In some areas man is an invasive species too. So I think it would be in line with Satanic pragmaticism to do what is needed to establish what you need for yourself, and then leave it at that - i.e. if an animal bothers you, try to discourage it, and if that cannot be done, then "protect" your own. This seems to be a reasonable in-kind response, while rounding up the neighbours to make sure that the animal goes extinct may be excessive smile
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While having never invented a sin, I'm trying to perfect several.

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#453813 - 06/10/11 03:48 PM Re: Satanic Rule of the Earth # 10 [Re: Quaark]
Lust Offline


Registered: 11/02/05
Posts: 4214
Originally Posted By: Daark
Originally Posted By: Tier Instinct
Originally Posted By: Zsche
From a Satanic point of view - Do you think I am justified in eradicating this species from my property?

Opinions are welcomed -


See Rule #4


Uh, no.

Rule 4 applies to humans.


Interesting and I would think that most would consider someone who has been invited in to be a guest. What about house spiders? Many consider them as welcome guests but those with phobias may think otherwise and would treat the spiders harsh and without mercy.
_________________________
�Love is one of the most intense feelings felt by man; another is hate. Forcing yourself to feel indiscriminate love is very unnatural. If you try to love everyone you only lessen your feelings for those who deserve your love. Repressed hatred can lead to many physical and emotional aliments. By learning to release your hatred towards those who deserve it, you cleanse yourself of these malignant emotions and need not take your pent-up hatred out on your loved ones.�
Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible

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#453815 - 06/10/11 04:11 PM Re: Satanic Rule of the Earth # 10 [Re: Lust]
Quaark Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 8872
It is one thing to simply squash a dangerous poisonous spider out of existence instantly and painlessly (perhaps there are toddlers about, phobias, you don't want hundreds of them later, etc).

It is quite another for someone calling themselves a Satanist to ever treat any non-human animal "cruelly and without mercy" as it says in Rule #4. There is simply no good reason for that.

If say a raccoon broke into my house and destroyed everything I own, I would certainly not treat it "cruelly and without mercy".

That's one point.

Secondly, an argument can be made that the earth outside is actually the groundhogs lair, not the humans who happen to be using it at the moment.

Finally, to Zsche: I'd suggest spending some time using Google to find "humane methods of groundhog removal" before proceeding.

If this were my problem, first I'd work on devising ways of keeping them from returning, before figuring out how to remove the ones already there.

People I know have dug thin but deep trenches around their property line and lowered thin sheets of iron the groundhogs can't pass and are too dull witted to dig under. Also keeps out all other burrowing destructive species.
_________________________
T’aa hwo’ aaji t’eego.

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#453816 - 06/10/11 04:30 PM Re: Satanic Rule of the Earth # 10 [Re: Zsche]
Zsche Offline



Registered: 04/17/09
Posts: 158
Loc: Where the 5.56 casings fall...
Originally Posted By: Direktor
I've had a garden for years and have rabbits and groundhogs run about which have never bothered it.


Indeed Direktor - I too have had a garden for years... My main vegetable garden is fenced - otherwise I would have nothing due to the rabbits, deer, and groundhogs. Last year I had a neighborhood kid come with a live trap and he removed 3 groundhogs (along with an opossum) that he relocated to some game lands. I thought they were all gone – but either I was wrong, or more moved in. I fully expect that the relocated ones were used as target practice for hunters this year.

The main issues are the large sunflower patch and my strawberry patch which are not fenced due to their size - which apparently only the groundhogs seem to be eating - as well as numerous holes they are digging all over my property.

Originally Posted By: Direktor

And groundhogs are tasty. wink


Heh heh! So another view – if I use my sniper skills and take them out with headshots, then turn them into groundhog jerky, barbeque, or stew - then I’m well within the guidelines of this rule.

Originally Posted By: reprobate
I interpret this rule somewhat loosely, to allow for the protection of my safety and property, as long as it is done as humanely as practicable. The point of the rule is to prohibit cruelty to animals, and especially animal sacrifices.


Thank you Warlock Reprobate –

I don’t want them to suffer – I just want them to go away (by whatever means) and stop eating my crops and digging holes everywhere. I certainly don’t endorse cruelty to animals or animal sacrifice.

Originally Posted By: verszou
I'd agree with Reprobate.

Depending on how you interpret the rule yourself (and that should really be what matters to you)…


This is exactly what I thought – interpret it myself, but I wanted to hear other Satanists’ opinons.

Originally Posted By: verszou
In some areas man is an invasive species too. So I think it would be in line with Satanic pragmaticism to do what is needed to establish what you need for yourself, and then leave it at that - i.e. if an animal bothers you, try to discourage it, and if that cannot be done, then "protect" your own. This seems to be a reasonable in-kind response, while rounding up the neighbours to make sure that the animal goes extinct may be excessive smile


Heh heh – I wasn’t planning on having a neighborhood “groundhog lynching” – but instead hoping to be proactive and prevent them from becoming anymore invasive than they already have been.

Originally Posted By: Daark
Finally, to Zsche: I'd suggest spending some time using Google to find "humane methods of groundhog removal" before proceeding.

If this were my problem, first I'd work on devising ways of keeping them from returning, before figuring out how to remove the ones already there.

People I know have dug thin but deep trenches around their property line and lowered thin sheets of iron the groundhogs can't pass and are too dull witted to dig under. Also keeps out all other burrowing destructive species.


If I lived on a small lot – this may be a viable option, but digging a trench and inserting thin sheets of iron around multiple acres simply isn’t realistic. I have already researched and found a product that is a jug of pellets containing “fox scent” that is supposed to repel groundhogs, so I suppose I could try dumping some of this down their holes...

Perhaps I will try eating one - and if I like it, this will solve the problem. If they are a viable food source, I may want to keep them around for Saturday evening dinner.

Hail Satan!
_________________________
Originally Posted By: Phineas
My suggestion to you, besides obtaining a copy of The Satanic Bible and reading it, is to immerse yourself in the information contained at the Church of Satan website.

Originally Posted By: Hagen von Tronje
You can't guzzle whiskey and pinch pretty ladies' asses when you're dead.

Originally Posted By: Roho_the_Rooster
Love life. Live life. Don't fuck with people unnecessarily. Don"t let other people fuck with you. Simple guidelines that that will help you to make informed, intelligent and Satanic decisions.

Originally Posted By: Callier
Constructive criticism is one thing but people that just point blank tell others what they should be doing with their lives without any kind of permission can eat a bag of hairy balls.

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#453817 - 06/10/11 04:31 PM Re: Satanic Rule of the Earth # 10 [Re: Quaark]
Lust Offline


Registered: 11/02/05
Posts: 4214
I see your point and as an animal lover, I agree. Cute and furry animals have a way of getting away with more mischief versus, say, a poisonous snake. Cruel and without mercy is something I could not do to a non-human animal because it would not be capable of creating that emotion in me to react that way. Therefore, Rule #4 applies to humans.

I appreciate your elaboration, Reverend Daark.
_________________________
�Love is one of the most intense feelings felt by man; another is hate. Forcing yourself to feel indiscriminate love is very unnatural. If you try to love everyone you only lessen your feelings for those who deserve your love. Repressed hatred can lead to many physical and emotional aliments. By learning to release your hatred towards those who deserve it, you cleanse yourself of these malignant emotions and need not take your pent-up hatred out on your loved ones.�
Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible

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#453821 - 06/10/11 05:11 PM Re: Satanic Rule of the Earth # 10 [Re: Zsche]
Quaark Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 8872
Originally Posted By: Zsche

The main issues are the large sunflower patch and my strawberry patch which are not fenced due to their size - which apparently only the groundhogs seem to be eating - as well as numerous holes they are digging all over my property.


I live on five unfenced acres, with multiple domestic animals and plants inside, and multiple wild carnivores and herbivores "outside", so I fully appreciate your dilemma.

Do I understand right that groundhogs just waddle (above ground) onto your land, THEN dig their burrows?

And the remaining unprotected area for sunflowers and strawberries is too large to economically ($ x labor) fence?

If yes to both... consider a single strand electric wire at a height they cannot get over or under without getting an annoying but harmless ZAP.

Not expensive and can be installed very quickly.
_________________________
T’aa hwo’ aaji t’eego.

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#453823 - 06/10/11 05:36 PM Re: Satanic Rule of the Earth # 10 [Re: Zsche]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10130
For once, I agree with reprobate.

My view is that if an animal cannot be reasonably removed and presents a threat to your property you are well within reason to dispatch it. I had a groundhog den going under my foundations once; my response was to sit on the porch with a .22 and pop them when they came out to sun themselves. Colony disappeared pretty rapidly after that. Trapping could have taken weeks and might not have worked at all, nevermind that trapping one or two of them and leaving the rest would not be much progress, and there's no real place to relocate them here where you haven't just foisted your problem on someone else's land.

However, I cannot emphasize enough that this is dependent on the animals being a true threat to property, and that you act in a way that does not cause unnecessary suffering to the animals. Exterminating a garden snake that is doing nobody any harm, for example, is not what I'd call Satanic behavior; nor is using injurious traps that do not kill immediately. Shooting pest animals, use of approved poisons, or nonlethal traps all seem reasonable to me.

There is also some element of attitude about the matter; there is nothing Satanic about killing an animal just because you can. I only advise it if the animal presents a clear threat of injury or loss/destruction of property; venomous spiders, burrowing animals, skunks, etc, all present a rational problem. Basically, don't be an ignorant asshole.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#453829 - 06/10/11 07:05 PM Re: Satanic Rule of the Earth # 10 [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Originally Posted By: Hagen von Tronje

There is also some element of attitude about the matter; there is nothing Satanic about killing an animal just because you can. I only advise it if the animal presents a clear threat of injury or loss/destruction of property; venomous spiders, burrowing animals, skunks, etc, all present a rational problem. Basically, don't be an ignorant asshole.


Exactly.

It rankles me when people gloat about triumphing over a dumb inferior being, or treat killing an animal like a casual fart in the wind. (Except for mosquitoes. Feel free to gloat there, as far as I'm concerned. wink ) Attitude is indeed important.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#453839 - 06/10/11 10:53 PM Re: Satanic Rule of the Earth # 10 [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Zsche Offline



Registered: 04/17/09
Posts: 158
Loc: Where the 5.56 casings fall...
Thank you Priest Hagen von Tronje. I'm certainly not advocating killing just because I can.  I just want to get rid of the groundhogs that are causing damage to my property.  

I grew up on a farm and witnessed many cruel actions towards animals.  Of course these actions were justified in an x-tian home as man was given "dominion over over every living thing that moveth upon the earth" according to the KJV...  I questioned many things as a child.

 I suppose the point of this post was to receive opinions just like you have provided -  such as wondering what constitutes as an attack.  My .22 is sighted-in so that I can hit a quarter consistently at 60 yards. Such accuracy makes unnecessary suffering avoidable.

As far as snakes go - two weeks ago one of my neighbors called me asking if I would come and kill a snake they happened across in their yard.  Upon arriving and realizing it was a common black snake, I promptly picked it up and brought it to it's new home by my pond.

I love animals and creatures  and will defend them if necessary - but if attacked, I will defend myself, my family, and my property.
_________________________
Originally Posted By: Phineas
My suggestion to you, besides obtaining a copy of The Satanic Bible and reading it, is to immerse yourself in the information contained at the Church of Satan website.

Originally Posted By: Hagen von Tronje
You can't guzzle whiskey and pinch pretty ladies' asses when you're dead.

Originally Posted By: Roho_the_Rooster
Love life. Live life. Don't fuck with people unnecessarily. Don"t let other people fuck with you. Simple guidelines that that will help you to make informed, intelligent and Satanic decisions.

Originally Posted By: Callier
Constructive criticism is one thing but people that just point blank tell others what they should be doing with their lives without any kind of permission can eat a bag of hairy balls.

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#453842 - 06/10/11 11:36 PM Re: Satanic Rule of the Earth # 10 [Re: Zsche]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10130
Then I would say you have the necessary respect, responsibility, and know-how to make a reasonable decision.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#453864 - 06/11/11 02:07 PM Re: Satanic Rule of the Earth # 10 [Re: Zsche]
Furrtiv Offline


Registered: 10/04/08
Posts: 112
Loc: Derbyshire, England
I'd also be one to suggest that, if all other reasobale avenues of deterrent, prevention, etc have been explored, then humane culling is a viable option. You say that someone has already received injury as a direct result of these animals' actions, so it's possible that, left unchecked, someone could well receive more serious injury on your property and so it is necessary to remove these animals in a controlled and humane fashion, even if that involves killing them.

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#453866 - 06/11/11 02:42 PM Re: Satanic Rule of the Earth # 10 [Re: Zsche]
Liberterius Offline


Registered: 01/06/10
Posts: 241
I say if they're actually damaging your land with their tunneling and eating significant amounts of vegetables from the garden, go ahead and shoot them. You say you're very accurate with your .22 so I'm assuming you can pretty consistently kill in one shot so it's minimally painful.

I would also look up some non-lethal methods to try to ward them out of area, but combine that with shooting.

As with all the Rules of the Earth, Number 10 isn't meant to be taken TOO legalistically. Shooting some random harmless bird in your yard is obviously different from swatting a mosquito; well the mosquito is technically attacking you...

Things can get complicated with it, but the SPIRIT of the Rule is what's important; which I interpret as "Respect the lives of animals, and weigh their lives against your own life and well-being; don't see animals as worthless 'soulless' machines which can be hurt or killed at no consideration." Don't kill without reason...

Even if you hunt for sport, have respect and humility about it.

But anyway on the topic, if it was something harmless like as others mentioned garter snakes (we get those semi-frequently where I live) then that would be violation of the Rule to just hack its head off for no reason.

A risky venomous snake on your property would be different, but if you're in the snake's lair (their natural environment away from people) then it's on you to avoid them.

Some wild animals and insects I actually like to have around; a lot of people would probably like to smack me for this but I like having skunks in my neighborhood because I love getting a whiff of the scent on the wind. If they're rabid that's another thing of course.

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#453867 - 06/11/11 03:09 PM Re: Satanic Rule of the Earth # 10 [Re: Liberterius]
Bruja Offline

CoS Witch

Registered: 04/22/05
Posts: 2054
Loc: Atlanta, GA.
Originally Posted By: Liberterius


Things can get complicated with it, but the SPIRIT of the Rule is what's important; which I interpret as "Respect the lives of animals, and weigh their lives against your own life and well-being; don't see animals as worthless 'soulless' machines which can be hurt or killed at no consideration." Don't kill without reason...

Even if you hunt for sport, have respect and humility about it.



What in the world are you going on about? You've totally contradicting yourself with that one.

As an aside, I am of the firm belief that anyone that hunts strictly for sport without at least consuming his kills is a truly fucked up individual… I don't give a shit how much 'respect and humility' they may say they have.

_________________________
Hail Satan!
Bruja

"Being powerful is like being a lady. If you have to tell people you are, you aren't." - Margaret Thatcher

"An inordinate passion for pleasure is the secret of remaining young" - Oscar Wilde

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#453871 - 06/11/11 03:30 PM Re: Satanic Rule of the Earth # 10 [Re: Bruja]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10130
Indeed.

There's no excuse for trophy hunting and in my view there's no defense for it in Satanic thinking.

Game hunting and eating the kill is fine (same for fishing). Eating being the operative word.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#453882 - 06/11/11 07:00 PM Re: Satanic Rule of the Earth # 10 [Re: Zsche]
GlobalViper Offline


Registered: 06/11/11
Posts: 6
Loc: USA, HUNGARY
regards to an alternative way of getting rid of them vermin devilchili Well i have had countless vermin in my yard and tried a little trick they do in Hungary, Put Beer bottles (empty) in the ground in different places and the noise they make when the wind blows and the slight vibration they do drives them vermin to your neighbors property who if you like you tell them about your little trick and so on... : )
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~Life is good even when its bad~ Dennis

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#453891 - 06/11/11 09:55 PM Re: Satanic Rule of the Earth # 10 [Re: Zsche]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 6999
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
You bring up a very common, and exasperating problem. I am sure you will get a wide range of opinions on this ranging from the fact that groundhog activity is creating a safety hazard for your family. Would not getting rid of them be considered a form of self-defense...to what I often call the Mickey Mouse syndrome...an idealized view of critters that borderlines on nuts.

But, consider the long view of the situation. Even if you killed the groundhogs that are presently on your property, you will soon be facing the exact same problem. Better to educate yourself concerning several ways of protecting your property from them. A simple Google search supplied me with a variety of methods. The better sites pointed out that more than one method will be needed for the best protection. That's really all that can be asked for...better protection. The only way to totally minimize your produce being eaten by hungry yard guests is to build a green house. Then, all you need to worry about are the neighborhood kids breaking in.

To answer your question concerning whether or not it is Satanic to kill an animal that is a nuisance; but not an immediate threat...my opinion is no. But that little thing under your avatar indicates you're southern. You won't eat a groundhog? Hell...the next thing you know, you'll say you don't like stewed possum!
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#453935 - 06/12/11 12:53 PM Re: Satanic Rule of the Earth # 10 [Re: Roho_the_Rooster]
Zsche Offline



Registered: 04/17/09
Posts: 158
Loc: Where the 5.56 casings fall...
I truly appreciate all of the opinions given and enjoy that this topic has caused so much interesting discussion.

Growing up on a farm in the Southern U.S. I have eaten the meat of cattle and pigs that I helped raise, as well as squirrel, rabbit, and practically any fish that could be caught from any body of water around us. I’ve never tried opossum or groundhog, but I know people who have. They swear that both are delicious if prepared correctly. I have researched eating groundhog (they are in the squirrel family), and apparently one really needs to know how to skin them correctly as they have a scent gland that if punctured will ruin the taste of the meat.

Warlock Roho however brings up another facet of the interpretation of this rule which I mentioned earlier in this thread:

Originally Posted By: Zsche
Heh heh! So another view – if I use my sniper skills and take them out with headshots, then turn them into groundhog jerky, barbeque, or stew - then I’m well within the guidelines of this rule.


So Warlock Roho – interpreting what you are saying: if I kill the groundhogs for the initial purpose of having them stop causing damage to my property but then I eat the meat – everything is OK?
_________________________
Originally Posted By: Phineas
My suggestion to you, besides obtaining a copy of The Satanic Bible and reading it, is to immerse yourself in the information contained at the Church of Satan website.

Originally Posted By: Hagen von Tronje
You can't guzzle whiskey and pinch pretty ladies' asses when you're dead.

Originally Posted By: Roho_the_Rooster
Love life. Live life. Don't fuck with people unnecessarily. Don"t let other people fuck with you. Simple guidelines that that will help you to make informed, intelligent and Satanic decisions.

Originally Posted By: Callier
Constructive criticism is one thing but people that just point blank tell others what they should be doing with their lives without any kind of permission can eat a bag of hairy balls.

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#453936 - 06/12/11 01:10 PM Re: Satanic Rule of the Earth # 10 [Re: Zsche]
ibugppl Offline
Not a Satanist

Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 4
If their messing with your garden kill them this isn't a religion with supernatural repercussions.

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#453938 - 06/12/11 01:16 PM Re: Satanic Rule of the Earth # 10 [Re: ibugppl]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8269
There are other options besides killing them. Read the entire thread and see.

By the way, killing often has repercussions that have nothing to do with the supernatural.

And, not having any supernatural repercussions doesn't necessarily make it the correct choice.
_________________________
"Consensus is the absence of leadership." Margaret Thatcher

"I'm fascinated with how primitive the human mind still is. It can be misdirected so easily." John Gaughan


"Success is uncommon. Therefore, not to be enjoyed by the common man." Cal Stoll

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#453940 - 06/12/11 01:31 PM Re: Satanic Rule of the Earth # 10 [Re: ibugppl]
Quaark Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 8872
Originally Posted By: ibugppl
If their messing with your garden kill them this isn't a religion with supernatural repercussions.


Your understanding of Satanism leaves much to be desired.
_________________________
T’aa hwo’ aaji t’eego.

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#453941 - 06/12/11 01:32 PM Re: Satanic Rule of the Earth # 10 [Re: Quaark]
CWH Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/23/05
Posts: 3746
I smell a troll.

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#453946 - 06/12/11 02:56 PM Re: Satanic Rule of the Earth # 10 [Re: CWH]
ibugppl Offline
Not a Satanist

Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 4
no not at all. From what I understood this was to be a system of living that had no formal rules. I can agree with Dr. LaVey's teachings but I will not follow them to the letter. At the end of the day I'm the one making the rules for myself.

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#453947 - 06/12/11 03:10 PM Re: Satanic Rule of the Earth # 10 [Re: ibugppl]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8269
...this was to be a system of living that had no formal rules.

Wrong.
_________________________
"Consensus is the absence of leadership." Margaret Thatcher

"I'm fascinated with how primitive the human mind still is. It can be misdirected so easily." John Gaughan


"Success is uncommon. Therefore, not to be enjoyed by the common man." Cal Stoll

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#453948 - 06/12/11 03:16 PM Re: Satanic Rule of the Earth # 10 [Re: ibugppl]
Quaark Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 8872
Wrong.
_________________________
T’aa hwo’ aaji t’eego.

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#453949 - 06/12/11 03:16 PM Re: Satanic Rule of the Earth # 10 [Re: ibugppl]
Zsche Offline



Registered: 04/17/09
Posts: 158
Loc: Where the 5.56 casings fall...
Originally Posted By: ibugppl
If their messing with your garden kill them this isn't a religion with supernatural repercussions.


I'm not worried about "supernatural repercussions" - my concern is attempting to live my life by the philosophy laid down by Doktor LaVey.

(and it should be "they're" instead of "their")
_________________________
Originally Posted By: Phineas
My suggestion to you, besides obtaining a copy of The Satanic Bible and reading it, is to immerse yourself in the information contained at the Church of Satan website.

Originally Posted By: Hagen von Tronje
You can't guzzle whiskey and pinch pretty ladies' asses when you're dead.

Originally Posted By: Roho_the_Rooster
Love life. Live life. Don't fuck with people unnecessarily. Don"t let other people fuck with you. Simple guidelines that that will help you to make informed, intelligent and Satanic decisions.

Originally Posted By: Callier
Constructive criticism is one thing but people that just point blank tell others what they should be doing with their lives without any kind of permission can eat a bag of hairy balls.

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#453955 - 06/12/11 04:04 PM Re: Satanic Rule of the Earth # 10 [Re: ibugppl]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
Quote:
I can agree with Dr. LaVey's teachings but I will not follow them to the letter.


That's the beauty of Satanism, no one follows anything.

Either Satanism naturally lines up with your personal way of life or not at all.
_________________________









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#453959 - 06/12/11 04:49 PM Re: Satanic Rule of the Earth # 10 [Re: Zsche]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10130
If you eat what you kill, it matters very little what your original or primary purpose was in killing it.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#453962 - 06/12/11 05:45 PM Re: Satanic Rule of the Earth # 10 [Re: Zsche]
ibugppl Offline
Not a Satanist

Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 4
Your rules do nothing to separate you from any other organized religion except you don't follow a deity. I can agree with Dr LaVey's teachings but I refuse to follow any rules. I live by my own. Call it whatever you like but its what I follow.

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#453964 - 06/12/11 06:24 PM Re: Satanic Rule of the Earth # 10 [Re: ibugppl]
LKRice Offline

CoS Priestess

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 6359
Originally Posted By: ibugppl
Call it whatever you like but its what I follow.


It ain't Satanism, that's for sure.
_________________________
Director
Committee for the
Promotion of Vice and
Prevention of Virtue

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#453980 - 06/12/11 09:29 PM Re: Satanic Rule of the Earth # 10 [Re: Zsche]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 6999
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
Originally Posted By: Zsche


So Warlock Roho – interpreting what you are saying: if I kill the groundhogs for the initial purpose of having them stop causing damage to my property but then I eat the meat – everything is OK?




While I appreciate your show of respect, really, there is no need to seek approval. This issue is for you to work out. You asked, in a manner that indicated genuine interest, for opinions and those of us so inclined so obliged. smile

The crux is the central focus of Satanism...love of life. Our own first; then, those who have earned our respect. The writings Dr. LaVey say in so many ways that it is tragic to unnecessarily end life. Even when it may be the best option available.

Love life. Live life. Don't fuck with people unnecessarily. Don"t let other people fuck with you. Simple guidelines that that will help you to make informed, intelligent and Satanic decisions.
_________________________
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/clickToGive/home.faces

http://theepicureandilettante.blogspot.com/

"Life is the only race you lose by reaching the end." - M.M.

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#453981 - 06/12/11 09:38 PM Re: Satanic Rule of the Earth # 10 [Re: ibugppl]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 6999
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
I assume this person is no longer in the forum. If anyone reads the post that this is a response to, and wonders what such ideas are called, allow me to help. It is called being a sociopath. Sociopaths are not free from rules. They are delusional.
_________________________
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/clickToGive/home.faces

http://theepicureandilettante.blogspot.com/

"Life is the only race you lose by reaching the end." - M.M.

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#454003 - 06/13/11 08:48 AM Re: Satanic Rule of the Earth # 10 [Re: Zsche]
Zsche Offline



Registered: 04/17/09
Posts: 158
Loc: Where the 5.56 casings fall...
I would like to thank everyone for sharing their opinions and ideas.

Approval was not what I was seeking - but instead opinions and interpretations which is exactly what I received (study not worship)...

Life is the great indulgence and taking it away from any living thing should be carefully considered and all other options weighed before making a decision.

This is indeed something that I must work out for myself.

Thank you again,

Hail Satan!
_________________________
Originally Posted By: Phineas
My suggestion to you, besides obtaining a copy of The Satanic Bible and reading it, is to immerse yourself in the information contained at the Church of Satan website.

Originally Posted By: Hagen von Tronje
You can't guzzle whiskey and pinch pretty ladies' asses when you're dead.

Originally Posted By: Roho_the_Rooster
Love life. Live life. Don't fuck with people unnecessarily. Don"t let other people fuck with you. Simple guidelines that that will help you to make informed, intelligent and Satanic decisions.

Originally Posted By: Callier
Constructive criticism is one thing but people that just point blank tell others what they should be doing with their lives without any kind of permission can eat a bag of hairy balls.

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#454157 - 06/16/11 07:48 AM Re: Satanic Rule of the Earth # 10 [Re: Zsche]
J. Hagalaz Offline


Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 1212
Loc: USA
You really have to put things into perspective. I live in a very rural area, and we have everything from coyotes, feral dogs, wild hogs, to 6 species of venomous snakes. In eleven years of living here I have never been hassled by any of these animals, but I do have guns just in case. I’ve heard that wild hogs can kill you, but I’ve never actually seen one before. I do see coyotes on almost a daily basis.

I recently asked myself "since I have cats, if I see a coyote on our property and near my home, should I shoot it to protect my cats?" Then it occurred to me that I've had cats all this time and I've never had one get mauled by a coyote. It would be stupid to take the life of an animal "just in case" when the chance of it doing anything is so slim that my cats could more likely be hit by a car before a coyote would ever attack them. Besides, I'm quite fond of coyotes. I go walking late at night and sometimes they'll start yodeling(?) and making all of that ruckus, sometimes what seems like only yards away from me. They don’t bother me and they are just awesome.

I'd probably consider poisonous snakes differently. I have kids, and I have dogs that run around outside to go to the bathroom, and of course I have the cats. If I saw an eastern diamondback curled up near my doorstep, I would probably be inclined to get out the twelve gauge because we don't have animal control out here and I don't know how to properly handle poisonous snakes. But again, since I've lived here this has never happened. I would never kill a snake just because it was poisonous. I'd probably get out my camera a take pictures, but if it's not an immediate danger, why kill it? I like snakes even more than I like coyotes, and I think they are probably the most misunderstood animals in the world. People purposely run them over out here and it pisses me off.

As for gardens, deer, rabbits, moles, and various other critters can do major damage in no time. I found the best way to deal with them is by taking just a few easy, though somewhat unordinary steps. If you encircle your garden with a long, black water hose, rabbits and other rodents will stay clear because they will think it's a snake. If you cut your own hair (which I do) you can save the clippings and scatter them around the garden to keep deer away, and urinating around the gardens perimeter (not recommended if you have neighbors who can see you doing this) will also help ward off deer and various other critters. By no means are all of these steps scientifically proven, and I don't know if it would work in your situation, but it’s certainly worth trying before you start shooting animals full of lead. After all, they don't know better, they just want to enjoy a salad!
_________________________
They are doomed because they cannot even glimpse beyond the construct that their masters have put into place. Their masters are doomed because they believe in the construct they created.

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#454176 - 06/16/11 12:08 PM Re: Satanic Rule of the Earth # 10 [Re: Zsche]
August Wolfe Offline


Registered: 05/06/11
Posts: 22
Loc: Texas Wastelands
Kill them. It's your food source. They intrude. Kill them.
_________________________
"All right then, I'll go to Hell"
~ Mark Twain

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