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"I don't understand" #459884
09/06/11 01:29 PM
09/06/11 01:29 PM
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Quaark Offline OP

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When you say, "I don't understand how", followed by some example of stupidity, you are not actually demonstrating your superiority to the person doing or believing the stupid thing.

Not really.

You are demonstrating (a different sort of) stupidity yourself, in the sense that you are revealing to others your lack of insight into the complexity of human nature and the human psyche, but mistaking this lack of insight as intelligence.

Additionally, you are revealing your lack of insight publicly, in a failed attempt to appear superior, failing to grasp that you are just revealing your own lack of insight, to others who do in fact possess the insight you do not, making your statement doubly, if not triply stupid.

To recognize stupidity for what it is, is good. To assert that not understanding it's sources, causes, and dynamics, is a sign of intelligence, wisdom, maturity, and being more evolved, is not.

The usual motivation for saying "I don't understand" is simply to make a distinction between oneself and others who are "less than" you, which is all well and good, as far as motivations go.

There is no problem with that.

All stupidity has a genesis, and this genesis can be understood without condoning it, or implying that by understanding it, you are tainted by it.

It would perhaps be wiser to phrase one's distinction in a way that also makes clear at the same time that you possess a bit of insight into the hidden life cycle of the stupidity one is discussing.

This approach is doubly intelligent, in that you are performing a service for others who may be a bit behind you in grasping that specific life cycle of dumb.

Re: "I don't understand" [Re: Quaark] #459885
09/06/11 01:46 PM
09/06/11 01:46 PM
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Bruja Offline

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So…. I'll just publicly thank you for making my day.

This post, coupled with the rain and newly cool weather outside have turned a schedule certain to bring groans of frustration and stress into one I can smile in the face of.


Hail Satan!
Bruja

"Being powerful is like being a lady. If you have to tell people you are, you aren't." - Margaret Thatcher

"An inordinate passion for pleasure is the secret of remaining young" - Oscar Wilde
Re: "I don't understand" [Re: Quaark] #459891
09/06/11 05:32 PM
09/06/11 05:32 PM
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Usually, I can technically "understand" the underlying causes, mechanics, or dynamics of a given stupid behavior or belief. Where the comprehension breaks down is on the emotional level, because I just can't put myself in the shoes of people who make certain kinds of terrible decisions, or have really stupid beliefs. I can't relate to those people, their problems, or their values, any more than I can fathom what it's like to be a jellyfish.

Occasionally, though, I truly won't understand some genuinely bizarre, often-random behavior, or really left-field belief, because it's too far outside the realm of what I'm used to dealing with. Often, (though not always!) things become clearer after a period of additional observation or research.


"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!
Re: "I don't understand" [Re: Quaark] #459893
09/06/11 09:32 PM
09/06/11 09:32 PM
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RoyceDavis Offline

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Very well said.

Often, when someone gives me the 'I don't understand...' phrase I will make one attempt to explain the behavior, as I can usually see the process of things, even when I don't agree or condone or even relate. The trouble comes after a sensical (is that a real word?) explanation is given and the questioner STILL refuses to see the mechanics behind the behavior.

I believe that what most people MEAN when they say 'I don't understand...' is more like 'I refuse to understand that because I feel the need to distance myself from it.'


___
Royce A. Davis
On the web:http://www.chimpwithagun.com
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Re: "I don't understand" [Re: RoyceDavis] #459896
09/06/11 10:29 PM
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AdamBomb Offline
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The contradiction - I see it. I don't think I've ever done that. I do not think I've ever even experienced someone giving me that scenario either.

Re: "I don't understand" [Re: Quaark] #459897
09/06/11 10:36 PM
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Hagen von Tronje Offline

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100% agreed, with one caveat.

It IS occasionally possible to be incapable of understanding someone who is your inferior - at least, of understanding anything other than that they are terminally retarded.

Your example:

"I don't understand how anyone can believe in god."

Well, I certainly don't agree with belief in god, and I think the evidence for god is so ridiculously weak as to be dismissed out of hand, but I can indeed wrap my mind around what line of stupidity leads people to believe in an invisible man.

My example:

"I don't understand how the hell you can assert that a collection of 20 links to sites with disjointed ramblings on creationism and condemnations of homosexuals as the root cause of 9/11 suggests we need to outlaw guns."

In this case, the person in question has used insane troll logic, which is marked especially for its incomprehensibility.

Occasionally, it turns out the perpetrator of such moronic arguments has a "logical" argument underlying this, insomuch as they have a stupid kind of method to their madness - in the above example, it may come out some time later that the connection they really wanted to make is that these links evidence that people are too stupid to own guns, but this was never mentioned until much later, and so any casual observer lacking the stupid gene to actually put those things together would have totally missed it.

Other times it turns out they are just cuckoo for cocoa puffs and have no damn reason at all for anything they do. In those cases you should notify a moderator so we can put them in the dumpster where they belong.


"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."
Re: "I don't understand" [Re: Quaark] #459925
09/07/11 01:37 PM
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TheDegenerate Offline
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I'd be surprised if this hadn't been said somewhere before. I can admit being all too guilty of this from time to time.

Of course, the odd time I will hear somebody begin with that logic. "I don't understand.." etc. A lot of times, especially if their "problem" is an obvious one, I have caught myself replying "I do."

It is one of those weird habits people have developed, and I think more than demonstrating superiority, it is like you said an attempt from the person saying it to distance themselves from something they deem to be silly or abhorrent.

It's the whole Hitler thing in my opinion; the inability of anyone on the fucking Earth to have a conversation about Hitler without adding in some bullshit like "Oh yeah, but he was a really mean guy." It's polishing the good guy badge, creating a gap of association.

Honestly, I don't understand why people feel the need to be apologetic about Hitler. coopdevil

Re: "I don't understand" [Re: Quaark] #459928
09/07/11 02:22 PM
09/07/11 02:22 PM
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LordofDarkness Offline
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That makes sense perfectly.

I don't have much to say about that statement.

It is true that I do not understand some things in some subjects and I do understand in others.

When "I don't understand how [insert sentence here]" is applied, one is also asking to be taught by the one who is supposed to be inferior. You are henceforth submitting your superiority to your opponent.

One would be also showing lack of knowledge on the subject at hand because one didn't acquire the logic and the answer to "why".

Going into a debate without knowledge on the subject is like going into battle without a weapon.

Last edited by LordofDarkness; 09/07/11 02:31 PM.


"Any group or collective, large or small, is only a number of individuals. A group can have no rights other than the rights of its individual members." - Ayn Rand

"Don't mistake my kindness for weakness. I am kind to everyone, but when someone is unkind to me, weak is not what you are going to remember about me." - Al Capone

"Satanism is not a white light religion; it is a religion of the flesh, the mundane, the carnal - all of which are ruled by Satan, the personification of the Left Hand Path." - Magus LaVey

"Test Everything, Believe Nothing." -
Re: "I don't understand" [Re: Quaark] #459930
09/07/11 02:28 PM
09/07/11 02:28 PM
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I just don't understand. whistle

Re: "I don't understand" [Re: TheDegenerate] #459949
09/08/11 12:50 AM
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AdamBomb Offline
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Hitler was not as much a mean guy, as he was a tyrant and a hypocrite. I bet there were more Polish Aryans than German ones. I'm not taking his side of Aryan mythology, don't get me wrong. It's very absurd to say the least.

Re: "I don't understand" [Re: AdamBomb] #459954
09/08/11 06:32 AM
09/08/11 06:32 AM
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Pablovilla Offline

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Originally Posted By: AdamBomb
Hitler was not as much a mean guy, as he was a tyrant and a hypocrite. I bet there were more Polish Aryans than German ones. I'm not taking his side of Aryan mythology, don't get me wrong. It's very absurd to say the least.


There is something to keep in mind about Hitler, and that is he told the world what he was going to do, and nobody did anything till it was too late, again this county is doing exactly the same now with China, they have said how they will take us over, but few are listening.

I have another one for you and that is mostly Aryans were killed by Hitler and the SS, that is because they were those that opposed his policies. There are records of who was killed unless they were gypsies, Anyone that did not fit into the NAZI plan were killed such as the disabled and mentally ill, gay, Jews, etc. If a child was born with any disabilities they were taken from the parents and killed. It really did not matter what race they were.

What I don't understand is why people want to think that only certain groups were killed, and disregard the facts. I do know that the Jews want people to think that they were singled out and the only ones killed because they like to be considered the "Chosen People", but it goes beyond that.

Last edited by paul_r; 09/08/11 06:34 AM.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result - Ben Franklin
Re: "I don't understand" [Re: Pablovilla] #459956
09/08/11 06:42 AM
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Drake_Bamboozle Offline
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>> What I don't understand is why people want to think that only certain groups were killed, and disregard the facts. I do know that the Jews want people to think that they were singled out and the only ones killed because they like to be considered the "Chosen People", but it goes beyond that. <<


Yes. It's bullshit. To claim millions of Jews were not killed is absurd. But it was other factions of society aswell. It didn't begin or end with the Jews. What has been perpertrated is a myth.

And it has been hardened into fact over many years through the media.

But when it comes to thinking for one's self I like to quote Rumi:

We drink the devil's drink; even less we care what people think.


Human beings are as significant as a cigarette burn in the sun.
Re: "I don't understand" [Re: Drake_Bamboozle] #459957
09/08/11 07:13 AM
09/08/11 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted By: Rev_Strongbone
>> What I don't understand is why people want to think that only certain groups were killed, and disregard the facts. I do know that the Jews want people to think that they were singled out and the only ones killed because they like to be considered the "Chosen People", but it goes beyond that. <<


Yes. It's bullshit. To claim millions of Jews were not killed is absurd. But it was other factions of society aswell. It didn't begin or end with the Jews. What has been perpertrated is a myth.

And it has been hardened into fact over many years through the media.

But when it comes to thinking for one's self I like to quote Rumi:

We drink the devil's drink; even less we care what people think.


I really can't think of anyone that would think that millions of Jews were not killed, that is outside of people that believe that it never happened, and that goes against the facts recorded by the Nazi's. I do know that I along with many others that I know would be killed by Nazi's if they were in power today as back then, and it has nothing to do with my race.


Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result - Ben Franklin
Re: "I don't understand" [Re: Pablovilla] #459975
09/08/11 07:19 PM
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I don't think he only wanted to kill only groups such as Jews and Poles. He was just a huge hypocrite when came to the Aryan philosophy. This may not be true, but I really would not be surprised if it were - Hitler had Jewish ancestry coming from his father's side and was born under a Jewish last name, he eventually changed it for Political purposes.
This may be false and told by people who obviously hated Hitler and what he did so much that they want to make a fool out of him as much as possible. As if the suicide and non-Aryan features is not enough!

Re: "I don't understand" [Re: Pablovilla] #459988
09/08/11 11:48 PM
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Lust Offline
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Originally Posted By: paul_r
I do know that I along with many others that I know would be killed by Nazi's if they were in power today as back then, and it has nothing to do with my race.



I'd goose step and smile before willingly going to the grave. From there, that which is broken cannot be taken advantage of.

Last edited by Tier Instinct; 09/08/11 11:50 PM.

�Love is one of the most intense feelings felt by man; another is hate. Forcing yourself to feel indiscriminate love is very unnatural. If you try to love everyone you only lessen your feelings for those who deserve your love. Repressed hatred can lead to many physical and emotional aliments. By learning to release your hatred towards those who deserve it, you cleanse yourself of these malignant emotions and need not take your pent-up hatred out on your loved ones.�
Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible
Re: "I don't understand" [Re: Lust] #460011
09/09/11 06:25 AM
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Pablovilla Offline

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Originally Posted By: Tier Instinct
Originally Posted By: paul_r
I do know that I along with many others that I know would be killed by Nazi's if they were in power today as back then, and it has nothing to do with my race.



I'd goose step and smile before willingly going to the grave. From there, that which is broken cannot be taken advantage of.


Exactly!

Also that is always something to keep in mind when someone is looking for a job, make sure that you are the same political party as the one that is in control. That is how you get good government jobs.


Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result - Ben Franklin
Re: "I don't understand" [Re: Quaark] #460020
09/09/11 07:18 AM
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Drake_Bamboozle Offline
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My question to you then is...


What happens when the likes of Leo Szilard says: "I don't understand how men can bomb each other."

It's an important question. With implications, don't you think?


Human beings are as significant as a cigarette burn in the sun.
Re: "I don't understand" [Re: Drake_Bamboozle] #460027
09/09/11 02:30 PM
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Pablovilla Offline

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Originally Posted By: Rev_Strongbone
My question to you then is...


What happens when the likes of Leo Szilard says: "I don't understand how men can bomb each other."

It's an important question. With implications, don't you think?


That brings to mind why would anyone think that Mutual Assured Destruction (MAD) would be a deterrent, when given that one of the many parties is willing to stop at nothing even suicide to stop the other parties?

Last edited by paul_r; 09/09/11 02:31 PM.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result - Ben Franklin
Re: "I don't understand" [Re: Drake_Bamboozle] #460036
09/09/11 10:53 PM
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RoyceDavis Offline

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Originally Posted By: Rev_Strongbone
My question to you then is...


What happens when the likes of Leo Szilard says: "I don't understand how men can bomb each other."

It's an important question. With implications, don't you think?


Questions must be taken for thier worth though. When one asks about something how they take the information must be considered as well. If someone asks 'I don't understand how lightbulbs are made.' then after hearing the process they say 'Oh, now I know, thank you.' that's a different thing than a question used as a statement like 'I don't understand how people can NOT believe in god.' Although phrased as a question, that is a statement meant to disarm.

The question you pose above is most likely a rhetorical question, a whole different animal.


___
Royce A. Davis
On the web:http://www.chimpwithagun.com
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Re: "I don't understand" [Re: RoyceDavis] #460041
09/10/11 12:11 AM
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Drake_Bamboozle Offline
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>> The question you pose above is most likely a rhetorical question, a whole different animal.<<


No. It isn't. It's a very practical question and alludes to what Rev. Hagan was saying about intelligence being incapable of understanding stupidity.

Rev. Daark was highlighting stupidity demonstrating its inability to understand stupidity.

But minds immeasurably removed from the little men still can't foresee or comprehend the actions of lesser men.

Thus my example.

This is the essence of being the alien elite as I see it. begging the question of Satanists...

What the fuck do you do that makes you so fucking elite?


Human beings are as significant as a cigarette burn in the sun.
Re: "I don't understand" [Re: Quaark] #460045
09/10/11 01:00 AM
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Bill_M Offline
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Originally Posted By: Daark
When you say, "I don't understand how", followed by some example of stupidity, you are not actually demonstrating your superiority to the person doing or believing the stupid thing.

Not really.

You are demonstrating (a different sort of) stupidity yourself, in the sense that you are revealing to others your lack of insight into the complexity of human nature and the human psyche, but mistaking this lack of insight as intelligence.

I've amusingly seen this fallacy being made on both sides of many theism vs. atheism debates. It's either "I don't understand how people can think this was all created by random chance!" or "I don't understand how people can believe in some invisible man in the sky!" People who've done even a minimal amount of research on science's explanation of the physical world know that it isn't "random chance". Likewise, as stupid and self-defeating as I ultimately find theism to be, I know that monotheists aren't claiming that their deity physically resides somewhere in the earth's atmosphere.


Reverend Bill M.

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Re: "I don't understand" [Re: Drake_Bamboozle] #460052
09/10/11 03:14 AM
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John Prophet Offline

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Originally Posted By: Rev_Strongbone
No. It isn't. It's a very practical question and alludes to what Rev. Hagan was saying about intelligence being incapable of understanding stupidity.

Rev. Daark was highlighting stupidity demonstrating its inability to understand stupidity.

But minds immeasurably removed from the little men still can't foresee or comprehend the actions of lesser men.

Thus my example.

While that might be true, I don't think that any sort of lack of comprehension can ever be counted towards someone's status of being "intelligent". Someone may be brilliant in general or in regards to certain topics or range of thought, but if they're literally unable to comprehend something, that should never be seen as anything besides a lack of comprehension.

Basically, a lack of understanding is a lack of understanding, whether it's from a stupid person or a genius. When someone says "I don't understand" and means it literally, that statement on its own should never be taken as an indicator of intelligence. It means that there's an obvious gap in the person's knowledge or capacity for understanding.

Leó Szilárd may have been a brilliant scientist but I think that you're giving his quote way too much credit. If it wasn't rhetorical and he's literally unable to comprehend the practical and emotional benefits of bombing an enemy, then his statement should be seen as nothing more than a simple confession of ignorance.

Of course this isn't to say that everyone is expected to know or understand everything. Sometimes it's best to admit when you don't understand something and you want to. But in Leó Szilárd's case, it seems like he was doing exactly what Reverend Daark was describing when he said:

"Additionally, you are revealing your lack of insight publicly, in a failed attempt to appear superior, failing to grasp that you are just revealing your own lack of insight, to others who do in fact possess the insight you do not, making your statement doubly, if not triply stupid.

To recognize stupidity for what it is, is good. To assert that not understanding it's sources, causes, and dynamics, is a sign of intelligence, wisdom, maturity, and being more evolved, is not.
"

I would say that superiority can never be found in a lack of understanding or comprehension. If someone is of greater intelligence than another person, it's always in spite of any lack of understanding that they have about "lesser men"; never because of it.

Re: "I don't understand" [Re: John Prophet] #460056
09/10/11 03:58 AM
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Hagen von Tronje Offline

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Really, my point was that there must be a natural termination point of this line of thinking, which I generally agree with. But when taken to reductio ad absurdum, it does indeed become absurd.

I freely admit I cannot comprehend, for example, the motives of an honestly retarded person. When I see them lay a sloppy tongue kiss on someone then fling feces at them, I can only shrug and say "He's retarded. He does that." Whatever actual motivations, if any, underlie that behavior, I cannot guess. I can only call it defective and give up. Possibly a neurologist could attempt to explain it, but I doubt he'd truly understand it anymore than I truly understand what it means to be an insect or a fish. That kind of perception is not within my range.

To put it in other terms: so far as I can gather, some behavior does not follow any logical cause and effect progression (referring to logical as "if this, then that," not logical as in "rational"). This behavior is chaotic and beyond prediction or real understanding.

To use another example:

A Christmonger washes up on our shores and decides to make a post attempting to convert us. Readily comprehensible; it may not be rational, but all of us can easily see through the "if, then" underlying this behavior. It's nutty but the train of thought that lead to it is not mysterious, only stupid.

But explain why this Christmonger chose an all-caps mish-mash of seemingly unrelated bible verses and personal ad-libs thereon and decided to copy/paste it over 100 times in one post until he hit the character limit, then started dozens more replies to continue his copypasta, then repeated this in every other subforum he could access for hours on end until a moderator shuts him down.

Calling it trolling is lazy, he invested hours to do something that we undid in minutes and he got no real rise out of anyone. Saying he's simply that fantatical is also an easy way out, you'd have to imagine anyone with that much zealous energy has many outlets that will leave a more lasting effect. Can he be so inexperienced at finding catharsis for his fervor? I challenge you to really explain why the fuck this would be done. And it has been done. Several times.


"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."
Re: "I don't understand" [Re: Hagen von Tronje] #460059
09/10/11 04:38 AM
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John Prophet Offline

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I understand your point. But my point was just that my inability to understand the retarded person or Christmonger from your examples, in no way implies any intellectual superiority on my part. While there are certain things that may be incomprehensible for anyone, that just makes them neutral.

My point was that lack of understanding in and of itself is never an indication of intelligence and is therefore never an indication of superiority. In Reverend Daark's original example it implies stupidity. In the case of your examples, the lack of understanding may not really imply anything about the intelligence of the person who is trying to comprehend it.

Last edited by John Prophet; 09/10/11 04:40 AM.
Re: "I don't understand" [Re: John Prophet] #460061
09/10/11 04:42 AM
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Hagen von Tronje Offline

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I suppose from the point of view that retarded people don't understand each other either, you're right. It's a neutral point insomuch as nobody can understand that crazy shit.


"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."
Re: "I don't understand" [Re: Hagen von Tronje] #460063
09/10/11 04:54 AM
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John Prophet Offline

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Pretty much. I suppose the situation would be different if we ever came across someone who was truly omniscient, but something tells me that probably isn't going to happen anytime soon.

Re: "I don't understand" [Re: John Prophet] #460066
09/10/11 06:00 AM
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England
>> Leó Szilárd may have been a brilliant scientist but I think that you're giving his quote way too much credit. <<


He didn't say it. I did. I alluded to the fact that he had no idea his work would be used for violence. His mind had different ideas. He had bigger ideas, more positive ideas.


Human beings are as significant as a cigarette burn in the sun.
Re: "I don't understand" [Re: John Prophet] #460068
09/10/11 06:03 AM
09/10/11 06:03 AM
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Posts: 10,792
England
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
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>> my inability to understand the retarded person in no way implies any intellectual superiority on my part.<<


And there you have it everyone. From the horse's mouth. Mr. John Prophet is not intellectually superior to a retard.

grin grin grin


Human beings are as significant as a cigarette burn in the sun.
Re: "I don't understand" [Re: Drake_Bamboozle] #460072
09/10/11 06:16 AM
09/10/11 06:16 AM
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My suburban lair
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grin

Re: "I don't understand" [Re: Drake_Bamboozle] #460088
09/10/11 06:14 PM
09/10/11 06:14 PM
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Denmark
verszou Offline

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Denmark
Originally Posted By: Rev_Strongbone
>> Leó Szilárd may have been a brilliant scientist but I think that you're giving his quote way too much credit. <<


He didn't say it. I did. I alluded to the fact that he had no idea his work would be used for violence. His mind had different ideas. He had bigger ideas, more positive ideas.


So, if I understand you correctly, your comment on his behalf was not about lack of comprehension, but of not seeing the real potential? Like carving a musical instrument just to see somebody say "Hey, if we hit a few pigeons with that one we'll eat well tonight" smile


While having never invented a sin, I'm trying to perfect several.
Re: "I don't understand" [Re: verszou] #460091
09/10/11 07:15 PM
09/10/11 07:15 PM
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England
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
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>> So, if I understand you correctly, your comment on his behalf was not about lack of comprehension, but of not seeing the real potential? <<


Not quite.

He saw potential that lesser men didn't. But neither did he fully comprehend the minds of more... shall we say... feral men.

There is such a thing as emotional intelligence. Usually wrongly referred to as spirituality.


Human beings are as significant as a cigarette burn in the sun.
Re: "I don't understand" [Re: Quaark] #460103
09/10/11 11:28 PM
09/10/11 11:28 PM
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Posts: 549
San Juan Island
fatebender Offline
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Originally Posted By: Rev_Strongbone
>>
He saw potential that lesser men didn't. But neither did he fully comprehend the minds of more... shall we say... feral men.


In this case, those you refer to as "lesser men" happened to be the ones in "greater" positions of power. The pure intellectual is at a disadvantage. You cannot tell people how to use knowledge you give them without posing some kind of threat.

What good are ethics if you always get your ass kicked? To salve your hatred by telling yourself you have "higher, more noble motives" than your enemies (or your superiors) is nothing more than an excuse for accepting defeat. One compares this to the poor Christians belief that it impossible for a rich man to find salvation, or to an ugly woman who believes beautiful ones must be shallow.

I can totally understand why an authority figure would want to destroy an entire race or nation. If I forget the reason, all I have to do is walk into a Wal Mart and take a whiff. The quality people here are the ones who have the sense to run and take cover before the buttons get pushed.

It is a dire folly to share knowledge with someone who will use it against you, or against your purposes. This is especially true when your only purpose in sharing it was to prove that you know something. When you add an air of self righteous superiority, you have "triple stupid."

Last edited by fatebender; 09/10/11 11:29 PM.

"When everyone is reading Neitzche, I'll be watching Don Ameche." ASL
Re: "I don't understand" [Re: fatebender] #460104
09/11/11 12:22 AM
09/11/11 12:22 AM
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Ukiah, Ca. US
RoyceDavis Offline

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Originally Posted By: fatebender
Originally Posted By: Rev_Strongbone
>>
He saw potential that lesser men didn't. But neither did he fully comprehend the minds of more... shall we say... feral men.


In this case, those you refer to as "lesser men" happened to be the ones in "greater" positions of power. The pure intellectual is at a disadvantage. You cannot tell people how to use knowledge you give them without posing some kind of threat...


So, in that case, who was the 'true' elite? Are there different levels of elite?

Wouldn't Szilard's example be more of an illustration of what happens to the alien who aren't elite, if he was so far removed from the rest of the world that he not only couldn't guess what people would do with his ideas, but couldn't even comprehend why someone MIGHT want to do something he didn't agree with?

Wouldn't that type of specialized mind be similar to savantism?


___
Royce A. Davis
On the web:http://www.chimpwithagun.com
On Undercroft
Elite [Re: RoyceDavis] #460117
09/11/11 06:14 AM
09/11/11 06:14 AM
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San Juan Island
fatebender Offline
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My opinion is that Szilard knew precisely what would be done with his ideas, and he hid behind a veil of ignorance and idealism when he wished to avoid becoming a villain in the public eye. This is what served his interests.

Anyone who is serving their own interests can be considered "elite" to a degree. Often this involves deliberately misleading other people. A person who has been mislead to a point where they no longer serve their own interests ceases to be "elite."


"When everyone is reading Neitzche, I'll be watching Don Ameche." ASL
Re: Elite [Re: fatebender] #460119
09/11/11 07:45 AM
09/11/11 07:45 AM
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Drake_Bamboozle Offline
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Originally Posted By: fatebender

My opinion is that Szilard knew precisely what would be done with his ideas, and he hid behind a veil of ignorance and idealism when he wished to avoid becoming a villain in the public eye. This is what served his interests.

Anyone who is serving their own interests can be considered "elite" to a degree. Often this involves deliberately misleading other people. A person who has been mislead to a point where they no longer serve their own interests ceases to be "elite."



You speculate wrongly.

Germany was already developing such weapons. Leo Szilard's work directly led to the Manhattan Project - which he encouraged the U.S government to pursue in order to beat Germany to it.

His solid conviction was that America's threat would be enough to force Germany and Japan to surrender.

He did not believe at this point the US government would go ahead and use the weapon because of the indiscriminate loss of civillian lives.

To suggets he wasn't elite in his field because of what could be called short-sightedness is silly.

People like him are beyond other men - lesser men. Even if those lesser men are in positions of power.


Human beings are as significant as a cigarette burn in the sun.
Re: "I don't understand" [Re: Quaark] #461151
09/26/11 08:17 PM
09/26/11 08:17 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,031
Washington, DC
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This is really good, and I think it should be stickied somewhere.

Thanks.

Re: "I don't understand" [Re: Drake_Bamboozle] #461296
09/28/11 06:28 AM
09/28/11 06:28 AM
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Posts: 268
Victorville, California
Pablovilla Offline

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Victorville, California
Originally Posted By: Rev_Strongbone
>> The question you pose above is most likely a rhetorical question, a whole different animal.<<


No. It isn't. It's a very practical question and alludes to what Rev. Hagan was saying about intelligence being incapable of understanding stupidity.

Rev. Daark was highlighting stupidity demonstrating its inability to understand stupidity.

But minds immeasurably removed from the little men still can't foresee or comprehend the actions of lesser men.

Thus my example.

This is the essence of being the alien elite as I see it. begging the question of Satanists...

What the fuck do you do that makes you so fucking elite?


I can see that I just can't understand how retards think, as my brain is structured in a far different way. I'm wondering why nature allowed them to live long enough to be born, as most of the time when a defective child is developing it will usually be stillborn or reabsorbed before the child will be born.

That way when I'm a child in grade school I do not have to try and figure out why some 30+ retard would be asking me for jelly beans for his sandwich.

In many countries they are put into special homes, here the mental cases are left to roam, and as we know the NAZI's killed them off, as they were taking up valuable resources that could help more productive members of society.


Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result - Ben Franklin
Re: "I don't understand" [Re: Quaark] #461603
10/05/11 03:10 AM
10/05/11 03:10 AM
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I would also add that in addition to the demonstration of "superiority", saying I don't understand is a way of feeling superior when one disagrees.

The person who uses this tactic, is trying to portray himself as the level headed opened minded type. He is trying to be "normal". When he says, "I don't understand how (fill in the blank)", what he really means is, "I don't agree with this, and I am always "good". So the fact that a good guy like me could disagree shows how "evil" your point of view is." This is not unlike a xtain praying for his enemies.

Some people will deliberately play ignorant to try to manipulate a situation. I deal with this on a daily basis. I represent many different aspects of the prescription drug industry. When the chips are down, though, the main interest that I represent is that of various insurance companies.

People say things such as, "I don't understand how you can deny a medication." "I don't understand how it is that a copay can be this high." "I don't understand why that you can't authorize a free sample for the patient while the insurance company settles this." "I pay for this, I don't understand how that you can take my money and not hardly cover anything."

In every one of these examples it is not that the people involved do not understand (it is really easy to understand) it is that they don't agree. A Doctor can write any prescription that he sees fit for a patient. That does not mean that the insurance company is required to cover it. Any insurance company has the right to set whatever rules (copay, deductible, out of pocket expense, CAP, etc.) that they want. If someone doesn't like the way a plan works, they do not have to buy into it, they can find one that does work for them. Unless the doctor's office or pharmacy is offering a free service (the ones that I deal with do not) then they have no business expecting handouts from the insurance. You get what you pay for. Do not take the lowest priced plan and expect the premium treatment. It would be like taking basic cable and whining that you didn't get the premium channels.

In any one of these situations the person is either trying to play superior (demonstrating ignorance or stupidity) or they are trying to manipulate the situation by playing various emotional cards.

Notice something else? In any one of these situations all that it would require to understand would be to read the ins and outs of a plan before signing up with it. Hmm. Where does responsibility go? If the person in any of these situations has read the terms of agreement it is not that he doesn't understand. He doesn't agree. If he doesn't understand it is because he chooses not to.

Good topic Reverend Daark.

HS!

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