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#466138 - 12/15/11 06:11 AM Satani: Diabolus in musica
One Man Army Offline


Registered: 12/11/11
Posts: 111
Loc: Beyond Understanding...
Ave! There is an issue I have been wondering about for a few years already. The question is quite philosophical, but I do believe this is the place to discuss it, because the minds gathered here could be just the ones I seek for.

First, the story. From ancient times, there exists a concept, a tradition of the creation of the Universe - the Spheres of the World. This is a metaphysical structure of all that exists, an idea wherein music is the path to understanding the world. It says that the creation of our world as we know it, began with music, which formed a perfect harmony, while every sound fully obeyed a certain divine will. Although, I am interested in the so-called Tyrant, who rebelled against the harmony(the system) and is named the diabolus in musica(Socrates). This 'devil in the music' is a failure of the mechanism, which cannot handle Freedom - something we price high. With other words, this is the prototype of the story about the Fall of Lucifer. We got here the Spheres, the system, the order on one hand and the rebellion, the free will - which is considered disharmony - on the other.

Now, my question is: how does the music of the Devil sound like? (Your opinion)
How do we experience the diabolus in musica?

Nota bene! I do NOT ask for band names. This will be considered as reclame.

I searched myself and found only two masterpieces of music, that are diabolical enough:
1) Ave Satani
2) Tocatta and Fugue in D minor (Bach).

Interested to hear your thoughts and variants and especially awaiting the answers of the reverends of CoS, for their titles prove their knowledge is worth (my) admiring.
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#466146 - 12/15/11 08:59 AM Re: Satani: Diabolus in musica [Re: One Man Army]
misanthropichero Offline



Registered: 12/12/11
Posts: 12
"How does the music of the Devil sound like?"

I don't feel the music of the Devil has a one particular "sound". Any music that emotionally excites the Listener could be considered music of the devil.


"How do we experience the diabolus in musica?"

I would recommend reading "the Secret Life of a Satanist", by Blanche Barton, in this book their is a chapter called "Music as Necromancy". In this chapter their is section that explains "Ur Song" reactions.

I would also recommend reading "The Devils Notebook" by Anton LaVey, in this book their is a chapter called "music for the ritual chamber". in this chapter LaVey talks about chords tuned for emotional response as well as intervals of sound that are universal in emotional effects.

I would point to "The Satanic Scriptures" written by Peter Gilmore, in the chapter called "Diabolus in Musica" for some examples of the above mentioned techniques.
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#466151 - 12/15/11 09:40 AM Re: Satani: Diabolus in musica [Re: misanthropichero]
Janina Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1455
Loc: Center of my own Universe
To me the sound of devil is in Richard Wagner´s operas especially Der Ring des Nibelungen which is so demonic. Valkyre is my favourite piece of his works.

Another master piece which I love very very much is Ludwig Van Bethovens 9th symphony. These sounds are defianetely the work of free and independent mind!
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#466154 - 12/15/11 10:38 AM Re: Satani: Diabolus in musica [Re: One Man Army]
Bet'phage Offline


Registered: 11/18/11
Posts: 194
Loc: Ohio
I'm not sure what you're really asking. smile
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#466194 - 12/16/11 04:57 AM Re: Satani: Diabolus in musica [Re: misanthropichero]
One Man Army Offline


Registered: 12/11/11
Posts: 111
Loc: Beyond Understanding...
Originally Posted By: misanthropichero

I would recommend reading "the Secret Life of a Satanist", by Blanche Barton, in this book their is a chapter called "Music as Necromancy".

I would point to "The Satanic Scriptures" written by Peter Gilmore, in the chapter called "Diabolus in Musica" for some examples of the above mentioned techniques.


Thank you for your advice! I am sure, this will bring me a step closer to the answers I seek.
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Wisdom. Freedom. Power.

The rules may be theirs, but the game is always mine.

"A wise man with one eye sees more, than a fool with both." - Odin, the One-Eyed God.

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#466195 - 12/16/11 05:03 AM Re: Satani: Diabolus in musica [Re: Janina]
One Man Army Offline


Registered: 12/11/11
Posts: 111
Loc: Beyond Understanding...
Originally Posted By: Janina Paasonen
To me the sound of devil is in Richard Wagner´s operas especially Der Ring des Nibelungen which is so demonic. Valkyre is my favourite piece of his works.


Wagner is indeed a good example of music I would call dark or even macabre in a certain sense.
_________________________
Wisdom. Freedom. Power.

The rules may be theirs, but the game is always mine.

"A wise man with one eye sees more, than a fool with both." - Odin, the One-Eyed God.

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#466228 - 12/16/11 03:52 PM Re: Satani: Diabolus in musica [Re: One Man Army]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8262
From The Secret Life of a Satanist, Chapter Eleven, Music as Necromancy, page 144: "LaVey hardly plays the top 40, nor does he play "elevator music". His single qualification for good music is strict: it has to be evocative."

From page 148: "Satanic music is not heavy metal rock and roll. The real Satanic influence is seen in the revival of the lyrical, evocative music LaVey has been playing all his life."
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#466232 - 12/16/11 04:20 PM Re: Satani: Diabolus in musica [Re: One Man Army]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11546
Loc: New England, USA
Originally Posted By: One Man Army
Although, I am interested in the so-called Tyrant, who rebelled against the harmony(the system) and is named the diabolus in musica(Socrates).

Personally when I think of "diabolus in musica", I think of the music theory term, which refers to a tritone or diminished-fifth interval. The interval certainly has a sinister sound to it, if used in certain playing contexts.

Quote:
Now, my question is: how does the music of the Devil sound like? (Your opinion)
How do we experience the diabolus in musica?

While a lot of this comes down to personal tastes, I wouldn't say it's completely subjective either. Minor keys and similarly dissonant intervals can evoke those related feelings. There's certain mathematics underlying the frequency ratios of these intervals too. Though there are other, more ambient sounds that have been explored and incorporated in some pieces too. We've had more in-depth discussions of these topics in the members-only section before.

Quote:
I searched myself and found only two masterpieces of music, that are diabolical enough:
1) Ave Satani
2) Tocatta and Fugue in D minor (Bach).

If that's the sort of sound you're after, there are plenty more pieces out there. You just have to do more searching. Mussorgsky's Night on Bald Mountain comes to mind. LaVey gave some great examples in his essay in The Devil's Notebook, and Magus Gilmore gives still other examples in The Satanic Scriptures.

At the same time, I think novelty music can be Satanic for other philosophical reasons. As LaVey said in the Washington Post, "The word 'occult' simply means hidden or secret [...] Go to the record store, to the corner where no one else is, where everything is dusty and nobody ever goes. Mussorgsky's 'Night on Bald mountain' is mystical music, dramatic, Gothic, satanically programmed music. But it's not occult music. 'Yes, We Have No Bananas' would be an occult tune. It's occult because when you put that record on the turntable, it's a lead-pipe cinch that there is not another person in the entire world who is listening to that record at that time."
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#466246 - 12/16/11 05:52 PM Re: Satani: Diabolus in musica [Re: One Man Army]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 6999
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
Believe it or not, the issue of the devils music may be one of the most popular topics new members choose to bring up. Not sure why. Probably because up until...the third kid and second mortgage, it is what many people identify with the most. That is not meant to be disparaging. Just an observation.

I think a lot of people, myself included, gravitate toward the music they listened to when they "came of age". Around 16 or 17...that first thrill of real freedom from your parents. Most importantly, that first tape/cassette/CD...and if you are my age...8 track tape you played in your first car.

But if you want to talk Satanic...for me...it has to be classical. I feel the most power when I am relaxed, calm, my emotions still. Yes...there are times to get worked up; but, I am most in control when I feel peaceful...

...then I go and ruin it by blaring Type O Negative.
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#466251 - 12/16/11 07:51 PM Re: Satani: Diabolus in musica [Re: Roho_the_Rooster]
Mr. Dodge Offline


Registered: 05/31/11
Posts: 6
Loc: Sacramento, CA
Originally Posted By: Roho_the_Rooster
Believe it or not, the issue of the devils music may be one of the most popular topics new members choose to bring up. Not sure why. Probably because up until...the third kid and second mortgage, it is what many people identify with the most. That is not meant to be disparaging. Just an observation.

I think a lot of people, myself included, gravitate toward the music they listened to when they "came of age". Around 16 or 17...that first thrill of real freedom from your parents. Most importantly, that first tape/cassette/CD...and if you are my age...8 track tape you played in your first car.

But if you want to talk Satanic...for me...it has to be classical. I feel the most power when I am relaxed, calm, my emotions still. Yes...there are times to get worked up; but, I am most in control when I feel peaceful...

...then I go and ruin it by blaring Type O Negative.


I agree because most of the music I listen to is a lot of experimental stuff I got into in high school like Les Claypool but I will say my biggest influence is Frank Zappa and I was born listening to him. Classical is definitely Satanic in the sense that it is very theatrical and has many emotions. As a young adolecent I did listen to a lot of heavy metal and things of that nature but as I grew into my adult years I find a lot more complex music is in order. I find that progessive rock has a Satanic feel to them; mainly because prog rock has classical influence. HS!
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#466254 - 12/16/11 08:07 PM Re: Satani: Diabolus in musica [Re: Bill_M]
StabAvery Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 714
Loc: michigan
Quote:
Mussorgsky's Night on Bald Mountain comes to mind.


Bill, you beat me to it!
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#466282 - 12/17/11 06:46 AM Re: Satani: Diabolus in musica [Re: Bill_M]
One Man Army Offline


Registered: 12/11/11
Posts: 111
Loc: Beyond Understanding...
Quote:

Personally when I think of "diabolus in musica", I think of the music theory term, which refers to a tritone or diminished-fifth interval. The interval certainly has a sinister sound to it, if used in certain playing contexts.


This is indeed the diabolus in musica which I meant. But, I am sure there are a lot masterpieces where this tritone isn't used, but which still sound sinister and - to me - inspirational. So, I wanted to see which compositions people would recommend as diabolical.

Quote:
At the same time, I think novelty music can be Satanic for other philosophical reasons. As LaVey said in the Washington Post, "The word 'occult' simply means hidden or secret [...] Go to the record store, to the corner where no one else is, where everything is dusty and nobody ever goes. Mussorgsky's 'Night on Bald mountain' is mystical music, dramatic, Gothic, satanically programmed music. But it's not occult music. 'Yes, We Have No Bananas' would be an occult tune. It's occult because when you put that record on the turntable, it's a lead-pipe cinch that there is not another person in the entire world who is listening to that record at that time."


This is actually something I found interesting, thank you for the information.
_________________________
Wisdom. Freedom. Power.

The rules may be theirs, but the game is always mine.

"A wise man with one eye sees more, than a fool with both." - Odin, the One-Eyed God.

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#466296 - 12/17/11 11:30 AM Re: Satani: Diabolus in musica [Re: Phineas]
-Ember- Offline


Registered: 12/13/11
Posts: 23
Loc: Mississippi
Originally Posted By: Phineas
From The Secret Life of a Satanist, Chapter Eleven, Music as Necromancy, page 144: "LaVey hardly plays the top 40, nor does he play "elevator music". His single qualification for good music is strict: it has to be evocative."

From page 148: "Satanic music is not heavy metal rock and roll. The real Satanic influence is seen in the revival of the lyrical, evocative music LaVey has been playing all his life."


I have yet to read The Secrete Life of a Satanist but it is on my to do list. I never gave much thought before as to what kind of music would be satanic. I've just always listened to whatever moves me. So then does that mean whatever stirs me is my own personal satanic music? A genre of music that moves me is heavy metal. Metal ranging from Slayer and King Diamond to Cannibal Corpse. It has it's own evocative nature for me. But on the other side, Evanescence. Emotionally Evanescence brings a lot to the table, so to speak. I know these aren't the magnificent classical pieces I saw mentioned, I do find inspiration in classical as well. Beethoven and Mozart. It seems that my music is just all over the place.


Edited by -Ember- (12/17/11 11:32 AM)

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#466303 - 12/17/11 11:53 AM Re: Satani: Diabolus in musica [Re: -Ember-]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8262
Whatever genre stirs you, and affects you, is entirely a personal thing.

It may be a little difficult at first, but one needs to understand there is Satanic music, and there is Satanic like music.

Dr. LaVey expounded on the principles that codify Satanic music, and was well aware of how this would carry into future years.

And remember, there are degrees of just about everything. The Satanist strives to see beyond the obvious. This is another concept that may be challenging to grasp; those that do are rewarded with deeper understanding of what Satanism is - and isn't.

Satanism, among other things, is a process of self awareness and discovery. Its all about you.
_________________________
"Consensus is the absence of leadership." Margaret Thatcher

"I'm fascinated with how primitive the human mind still is. It can be misdirected so easily." John Gaughan


"Success is uncommon. Therefore, not to be enjoyed by the common man." Cal Stoll

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#466306 - 12/17/11 01:01 PM Re: Satani: Diabolus in musica [Re: One Man Army]
-Ember- Offline


Registered: 12/13/11
Posts: 23
Loc: Mississippi
I see. I have never ran across what is satanic music before. I guess my first step needs to be getting my hands on more books. Just going to take a guess at what you might be saying about there is satanic music and then there is satanic like music... There is music that has certain attributes to it that make it satanic and different styles just resonate differently from person to person. And then you have music that gives you the same resignation yet lack the attributes that makes it satanic?

What were the books I need to get? Of course The Secrete Life of a Satanist and I saw mention of The Devil's Notebook and Magus Gilmore's The Satanic Scriptures. Are there any others?

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