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#466948 - 12/26/11 08:57 AM A Hypothetical and Speculative Question
Bet'phage Offline


Registered: 11/18/11
Posts: 194
Loc: Ohio
This is a completely hypothetical and speculative (Satanically heretical) question (and somewhat entertaining to me):

Would your Satanism be any more poignant if creatures humans refer to as "gods" did exist?

(Part of me cringes in anticipation of the replies.)
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#466949 - 12/26/11 09:12 AM Re: A Hypothetical and Speculative Question [Re: Bet'phage]
LordofDarkness Offline
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Registered: 12/23/06
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May I asked why would it matter even if they did?

My answer is no.
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#466950 - 12/26/11 09:14 AM Re: A Hypothetical and Speculative Question [Re: LordofDarkness]
Bet'phage Offline


Registered: 11/18/11
Posts: 194
Loc: Ohio
It very well may not matter in the least.
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#466951 - 12/26/11 11:05 AM Re: A Hypothetical and Speculative Question [Re: Bet'phage]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11570
Loc: New England, USA
Originally Posted By: Bet'phage
Would your Satanism be any more poignant if creatures humans refer to as "gods" did exist?

What do you mean by "your Satanism"? Satanism is Satanism. Different Satanists may emphasize different aspects of it and apply it in personalized ways, but it's still the same ideology.

To answer you question: no. Even if we considered the silly hypothetical notion of deities actually existing, it wouldn't change the fact that humankind still acts as just another animal species, and the 9 Statements still apply to me. Even if we carry the mythology further and assume there are some deities who threaten some sort of supernatural punishment for disobeying, and I went along with it, then I'd still acting out of an acknowledged self-interest and self-preservation. (Meanwhile, I'd be planning a scheme to overthrow the tyrant or find some other route that maximizes my well-being.)
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#466955 - 12/26/11 12:38 PM Re: A Hypothetical and Speculative Question [Re: Bill_M]
Bet'phage Offline


Registered: 11/18/11
Posts: 194
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: Bill_M
What do you mean by "your Satanism"? Satanism is Satanism.


I beg your pardon. Yes, I did not mean a person's "subjective Satanism" (if such a thing even existed). I chose poor wording for that part of my question.
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#466957 - 12/26/11 01:14 PM Re: A Hypothetical and Speculative Question [Re: Bet'phage]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Quote:
Would your Satanism be any more poignant if creatures humans refer to as "gods" did exist?

Do you think the word "god" means only one thing to everyone?
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#466965 - 12/26/11 04:05 PM Re: A Hypothetical and Speculative Question [Re: Bet'phage]
303vegas Offline


Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 129
Loc: Lancashire, UK
i don't think it would be more poignant if these things did exist, however i din't think we'd be discussing such things if they did.

to me 'gods' are mostly a product of anthropomorphism with the possibility of a dash of cargo-cult thrown in. (sorry, got a bit von daniken there, was that cringe-worthy enough? arf!)
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#466970 - 12/26/11 04:23 PM Re: A Hypothetical and Speculative Question [Re: Bet'phage]
Zaftig Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 3409
By answering your question, even hypothetically, you are changing the very nature of Satanism.

Let me explain; the prime presupposition of Satanism is that there is no spiritual dimension to the human experience. There is only the carnal.

Everything then emanates from this foundational premise, and everything must then be rationally explained in accordance with this premise for Satanism to still be Satanism.

So, if we say that there is no special inherent meaning to life, it follows that we, as Satanists, must make it meaningful. Satanism is define by this two-step logic.

1) There is only the carnal.
and 2) Make the most of this carnal.

To entertain the notion of gods (however defined) in essence then rejects the prime presupposition of Satanism. Everything that follows then also would require adjusting, because we have changed the foundation.

Satanism is poignant exactly because we don't allow for the possibility of gods, or more Satanically defined, we don't allow for the possibility of spiritual beings that are somehow invested in the actions of humanity and respond to those actions (however culturally defined that response happens to be in any particular area).

For speculative reasons, my answer would be that I do not respond to the idea, and never have.


Edited by Zaftig (12/27/11 06:54 AM)

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#466978 - 12/26/11 10:11 PM Re: A Hypothetical and Speculative Question [Re: reprobate]
Bet'phage Offline


Registered: 11/18/11
Posts: 194
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: reprobate
Do you think the word "god" means only one thing to everyone?


Nope. That's why I put it in small case letters and plural. smile
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#466981 - 12/26/11 10:19 PM Re: A Hypothetical and Speculative Question [Re: Zaftig]
Bet'phage Offline


Registered: 11/18/11
Posts: 194
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: Zaftig
To entertain the notion of gods (however defined) in essence then rejects the prime presupposition of Satanism. Everything that follows then also would require adjusting, because we have hanged the foundation.


Makes sense to me. That seems like it would be an honest response, hypothetically speaking.
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#466985 - 12/26/11 10:56 PM Re: A Hypothetical and Speculative Question [Re: Bet'phage]
Janina Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1510
Loc: Center of my own Universe
Originally Posted By: Bet'phage
This is a completely hypothetical and speculative (Satanically heretical) question (and somewhat entertaining to me):

Would your Satanism be any more poignant if creatures humans refer to as "gods" did exist?

(Part of me cringes in anticipation of the replies.)



I am not sure did I understand this correctly but from my standpoint I see the idea "man as god" as metaphora for the idea that tough there is no God or Devil to rule us a Satanist adopts the idea of being ones own god and own master throwing all religious hypocrisy and authority out of his life.

Of course there can be some other species living in other planets who may be in higher technological and scientific level as we here, but we should not call these being as deities cause they are living beings in same way as we human beings.

The way I see this idea is that I am my own god but I am not the god for other people. There is no God or Master guiding human beings so man has to be his own god, and I am a man so then I am the God!


Edited by Janina Paasonen (12/26/11 11:02 PM)
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#466986 - 12/26/11 11:33 PM Re: A Hypothetical and Speculative Question [Re: Bet'phage]
CWH Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/23/05
Posts: 3746
Oh man!

I'd totally be kickin' it with Thor and Odin!

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#466989 - 12/26/11 11:54 PM Re: A Hypothetical and Speculative Question [Re: Bet'phage]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
I'm still going to press the question. Do you think a bronze age raider thought about "gods" in the same way as an Alexandrian Neoplatonist? Or a modern Hindu?

I could easily reply, "Gods do exist, of course. I am one." That is no more glib than your question is vague.
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#466995 - 12/27/11 03:53 AM Re: A Hypothetical and Speculative Question [Re: Bill_M]
One Man Army Offline


Registered: 12/11/11
Posts: 111
Loc: Beyond Understanding...
Originally Posted By: Bill_M

(Meanwhile, I'd be planning a scheme to overthrow the tyrant or find some other route that maximizes my well-being.)


I simply cannot assume, that any 'god' exists - as a physical being - just because if it would, I would kill it and take its place. If there would actually be a 'throne above us' - I would kill for it.
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#466999 - 12/27/11 07:28 AM Re: A Hypothetical and Speculative Question [Re: reprobate]
Bet'phage Offline


Registered: 11/18/11
Posts: 194
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: reprobate
I'm still going to press the question. Do you think a bronze age raider thought about "gods" in the same way as an Alexandrian Neoplatonist? Or a modern Hindu?

I could easily reply, "Gods do exist, of course. I am one." That is no more glib than your question is vague.


I would say that the idea(s) of god has either 1) evolved to suit men's needs. As he evolved through the ages of time and geographic locales, his gods evolved. Different universal stages in the development of religions' morality and theology have been identified; or 2) (the "impossible" option) the gods themselves "learned" over time, but not necessarily for the better.

I would also say that in modern times, as in all other times, regardless of our stage of evolution (or the gods' evolution), the idea of god(s) is different even in people groups ("tribes" as I like to call them) that are contemporary.

People have always wanted their gods to be relevant. However, there are some people that thrive on their god(s) being anachronistic. As soon as they are deemed irrelevant (if the first option above is used), a major religious crisis ensues and the theologians (the able ones anyway) set about to evolve their god(s), or reinterpret their god's actions and words to suit the times and geographic region.

The question was vague so that people could include whatever concepts they wished, rather than a preloaded concept.

Your "easy reply" made me chuckle. wink "Would Satanism be any more poignant if Warlock Reprobate existed?" That's actually not a bad way to look at this question come to think of it. Does (supply your name here)'s existence make Satanism more poignant?


Edited by Bet'phage (12/27/11 07:33 AM)
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