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#470752 - 03/02/12 08:21 AM Giving opinions and advices?
Janina Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1450
Loc: Center of my own Universe
One of our "golden rules" says "Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked". This rule is first one in the list of The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth, written by our finder and first High Priest Anton Szandor LaVey.

I have been thinking lately lot of this brilliant advice of dr.Lavey especially after I became a member of CoS. I have noticed I feel more and more difficult every day giving opinions for people.

Now we are acting in this virtual reality world when we discuss about issues in this Lttd forum so sometimes itīs very easy to forget how much we actually try to make others understand our stand points in these issues more than listen what others may have to say us. We modern people have opinion for every situation, but is it actually always so important to get everybody else understand what do I feel about this or that?

Philosophy is one my passions and I enjoy about these discussions here, sometimes just.... I feel like I would or could say something about this or that which I delete hour later just cause I get this thought to my mind "what am I to say to somebody which she or he should believe"

I was reading Ayn Rand novel where this magnificent writer throw interestingly an idea "you have no right to say what is right or wrong for me"

Any opinions or advices?


Edited by Janina (03/02/12 08:45 AM)
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#470757 - 03/02/12 10:42 AM Re: Giving opinions and advices? [Re: Janina]
thorn9 Offline


Registered: 03/13/10
Posts: 119
Frankly people have told me their opinions or given me advice at times when I did not ask, but it ended up helping me many times and get me to think which I like. And I have helped out people with my opinions and advice when it was not asked and it helped them which made me feel good! And as a Satanist what makes me feel good is important and in many cases it did just that.

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#470761 - 03/02/12 12:04 PM Re: Giving opinions and advices? [Re: Janina]
Hatred_Incarnate Offline


Registered: 03/26/09
Posts: 124
Alot of Satanism isn't meant to be taken super literally or to the letter all the time. I personally think that rule means don't be rude by giving advice to a stranger or pestering someone with your ideas and opinions. It's fine to give your advice to a friend even if they don't ask. It can be very helpful just the same.
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#470764 - 03/02/12 12:24 PM Re: Giving opinions and advices? [Re: Hatred_Incarnate]
thorn9 Offline


Registered: 03/13/10
Posts: 119
I agree I think too many people take them as actual "Rules". I mean just last week I could have easily have used rule number 11 but I didn't and I am glad I didn't. I would have hated myself and felt like a jerk if I did use it in that particular situation.

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#470781 - 03/02/12 03:42 PM Re: Giving opinions and advices? [Re: Janina]
Torrent Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/24/08
Posts: 90
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: Janina
So do you mean all these "rules" are just theories for you where you can pick and choose what best suites for your opinions about Satanic philosophy?


This is one of the foundational ideas behind Satanism. Satanism is a religion where the god you follow is created by you because in essence that god IS you. As a god it is up to you to decide how you will interpret the material and use it to your real world benefit. As long as you are not committing illegal crimes the theories and ideas behind Satanism are very open for interpretation.

This means that one person may feel that you should not give any advice or opinions unless asked while the next person may feel it is only a guideline. Each person is free to choose how they will use these ideologies, though each person must also understand that although they can choose how to use it, they cannot necessarily expect others to agree with their usage.

This is one of the reasons Satanists can seem very blunt/confrontational at times. One person believes one way while another believes slightly different. The important thing is that you use the ideas in the most positive way for your personal situation regardless of how another feels.

Take note... Your views on these ideas may change over time as your life experiences change. So while you may feel a certain way about an idea one day, the next day you may feel completely different. Whatever the case... Use it to progress.

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#470783 - 03/02/12 04:23 PM Re: Giving opinions and advices? [Re: Janina]
Janina Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1450
Loc: Center of my own Universe
You have some good points here Torrent. Thank you for sharing them with us!
I myself feel that the richness of Satanism is excactly in it's purely carnal nature. We do not have teachings or concept to afterlife rewards, god or devil, but our religion puts whole responsibilty to person himself. You do what you do, understand the causes of your action and live with it.

to me. As member of Church of Satan these rules like we call them are guidelines. I see that the idea is that these rules come from experience which kind of action is productive and which not. I feel important to accept these principles in pragmatic level. They are not words of God like commands in Christianity but they have good principles for help ones life.

In this particular question, I also give my advices for friends and ask their opinios for many issues, but I do not want to tell people whom I do not personally know any advice how should they handle some personal things or live their own lifes, or want to pretend I know for them which is best solution for them. I do not want either people to tell me what should I , or should not do with my one and only life. There is many paths in life and Satanism indeed does not suite for all people, but only for those who can accept this responsibility

Your opinions give me lot more perspective, so nice to get to hear them.. smile

p.s. though I am not spokesperson of Satanism, I do not try to teach or correct people. Still I like to discuss and hear different points for these issues wink


Edited by Janina (03/02/12 04:41 PM)
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#470793 - 03/02/12 06:13 PM Re: Giving opinions and advices? [Re: Torrent]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10118
This means that one person may feel that you should not give any advice or opinions unless asked while the next person may feel it is only a guideline. Each person is free to choose how they will use these ideologies, though each person must also understand that although they can choose how to use it, they cannot necessarily expect others to agree with their usage.

This is not the case. Janina has it right. Satanism encourages (personal) questioning of everything, including our own rules and dogma, but this does not mean they are open to interpretation.

Indeed, the Rules of the Earth are core dogma, and are pretty explicit. While it is certainly a worthwhile exercise to ask why they are what they are in order to understand them, if one arrives at the conclusion that they do not agree with them, even in part, it is then worth asking if they're in the right place.

One of the key concepts behind Satanism is that it is not subject to interpretation, unlike deistic religions which are plagued by ambiguity and factionalism. There is no ambiguity in Satanism. In turn, our rules are so fundamentally simple and nonrestrictive that no reasonable person should find particular objection to them.

Or perhaps I have misread you? Exactly what "usage" do you think is subject to opinion or interpretation?
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#470796 - 03/02/12 06:51 PM Re: Giving opinions and advices? [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Quaark Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 8785
I agree with everything Reverend von Tronje said.

The Satanic Rules of the Earth are core dogma and not open to debate or interpretation.

Their codification as rules (and not guidelines or suggestions) is part of the architecture of Satanism itself, and that architecture reflects the spirit of Satanism.

This does not mean that discussions about them are not allowed.
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#470802 - 03/02/12 08:27 PM Re: Giving opinions and advices? [Re: Janina]
Bedlam Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 06/29/01
Posts: 1656
Loc: Perfidious Albion
When you decide to partake in a discussion forum, you ARE essentially inviting opinions (or advice where asked for). And those people reading - they CHOOSE to read it and may or may not decide to respond with their own.

If you decide to create a post espousing a particular opinion, you are doing it in a place where this is...encouraged?

It would be a very dull discussion forum if nobody put forth an opinion!

It is a different matter out in the "real" world...especially perhaps when interacting with other Satanists.

"I don't think you are bringing your kids up right and should do this and this instead..."

Would be met with "Who the F*** asked you?"

It's manners basically.



Now, if asked - "Does my bum look big in this?"

Probably best to lie, rather than give an honest opinion. grin
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#470803 - 03/02/12 08:41 PM Re: Giving opinions and advices? [Re: Hatred_Incarnate]
Bedlam Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 06/29/01
Posts: 1656
Loc: Perfidious Albion
Originally Posted By: Hatred_Incarnate
It's fine to give your advice to a friend even if they don't ask.


Is it?

Unless they are in danger of killing themselves (e.g. I suggest you don't jump off the balcony, we are thirty floors up...) I disagree.

My close friend started a new business two years ago. My opinion was that it was a foolish endeavour and he would be pretty much screwed within a year or so.

I thought long and hard about voicing that opinion. I knew I was right. I decided against it.

His business was screwed within a year. He'll be paying debts off for another few years yet. But he got over it and dusted himself off.

AND WE ARE STILL CLOSE FRIENDS.



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Wine for my men, we ride at dawn...

Do I look like I carry a pencil? Jason Statham

It may be Crazy
But I'm the closest thing I have
To a voice of reason


~ Gil Scott Heron




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#470806 - 03/02/12 09:09 PM Re: Giving opinions and advices? [Re: Quaark]
Janina Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1450
Loc: Center of my own Universe
Originally Posted By: Daark
I agree with everything Reverend von Tronje said.

The Satanic Rules of the Earth are core dogma and not open to debate or interpretation.

Their codification as rules (and not guidelines or suggestions) is part of the architecture of Satanism itself, and that architecture reflects the spirit of Satanism.

This does not mean that discussions about them are not allowed.



I think the problem here is if somebody starts to think all these rules are just theories where you can pick and choose what best suites for your opinions about Satanic philosophy he ends up easily to something very non-Satanic personal philosophy. The point in Satanism is anyway that it is religion with Dogma and Ritual.

When I was thinking to join to CoS I was thinking lot of these rules and it was very important for me to accept these teachings in pragmatic level. When I studied Satanism I did not find philosophy which suites for me, but I found myself from the philosophy. Then I made decision to sent my application for membership.

If we think that rules of Satanism are just "ideas" we start to theorize and make our own rules. Then one could think "Oh I donīt like this or that rule so I just ignore it". The problem in acting like this is which rules should we follow then. One could say it is all right to sacrifice animals or use drugs and still call myself a Satanist. What part in this kind of thinking actually is anymore Satanism?

One of the best descriptions about Satanism I have heard came from Magister Nemo in one of his earlier posts here when he said "You can think you can make opinions of Satanism, but Satanism is as it is. Current Religion with Ritual and Dogma".
To me these precious words of Magister Nemo are the best course I have ever got about Satanism and I could not agree more with him!

Being Satanist means living by priciples of Satanism!


Edited by Janina (03/02/12 09:29 PM)
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#470814 - 03/02/12 10:22 PM Re: Giving opinions and advices? [Re: Janina]
TheDegenerate Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 3567
Loc: Cowtown
I forget where the quote came from, but someone said "Satanism is not just a grab bag of convenient principles that someone can pick and choose from at will."

Once you start opening anything up to interpretation, in immediately loses any inherent value. That's one of the many reasons most religions are such a fucking mess.

There is a big difference between being up to interpretation, and being written tongue in cheek; Satanism is definitely the latter.

I think it boils down to common sense not to offer advice or opinions to people who aren't asking for it; for one, nobody likes a smart ass.

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#470820 - 03/02/12 11:09 PM Re: Giving opinions and advices? [Re: Bedlam]
Delta Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/18/07
Posts: 6747
Loc: Nar
Though the Rules of the Earth aren't subject to stretchy interpretation or redefinition, friendship certainly is. I'd call a good friendship a state in which opinion is always welcome and solicited. I freely give friends sub-life-saving advice and welcome it from them as well. I'd not be content seeing a friend ruin themselves without warning them that I thought it was a bad risk.

The degree of friendship especially determines what advice should be considered welcome, ranging from the acquaintance deserving only "Don't drink that, it's poisonous" to the most intimate, "Don't marry her without a pre-nup".
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#470825 - 03/02/12 11:48 PM Re: Giving opinions and advices? [Re: Janina]
XUL Offline


Registered: 12/12/09
Posts: 238
Loc: Oslo, Norway
Originally Posted By: Janina
if somebody starts to think all these rules are just theories


Aye, they are. But they are scientific theories (OBS! Irony). This means they can be (and, indeed, have been) tested and proven to be sound principles. You are free to try it out for yourself. Conduct an experiment: Assert for one hundred days that your freely given and non solicited advice will always be welcomed by everybody. The see what happens.

I'll wager that you'll harvest resentment in bountifuls, but that you'll also develop a mild-to-serious case of depression -- because nobody seems to care about your opinions and advice. Which is the crux of the matter: Do not give your shit away for free. Even if you happen to know better than, say, your best friend (as in the example above), there is a price you have to pay for that knowledge. This, of course, is a well known principle for anyone who has (or is) parented teenage children.
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#470829 - 03/03/12 12:10 AM Re: Giving opinions and advices? [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Torrent Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/24/08
Posts: 90
Loc: Texas
What I meant by interpretation (and probably should have been clearer about) was that the rules (more-so Satanism in general) should be used as a tool in our personal lives.

Using the first rule as an example "Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked." - In general this is a very important rule to stick to, however there are times it has benefited me to do the opposite. In the workplace I have given my opinion/advice to plant ideas in the head of another at convenient times (without being asked). These ideas are cultured and eventually turn into the completion of whatever purpose I was using them for in the first place.

This obviously cannot apply to rules such as rule 9, and 10, but can apply to other areas of Satanism.

So by interpretation (usage) I am trying to get across the thought that there are times and places when parts of Satanism can be used to our advantage. However, I am not saying that the we can just do whatever we want based on our opinions.

Thank you for the criticism. I do appreciate your post as I certainly do not wish my own to be unclear/misunderstood.

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