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#471792 - 03/22/12 02:43 PM Gay Marriage
Janina Offline
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Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1480
Loc: Center of my own Universe
For all who are interested about this issue you may read my new blog. Why do I support gay marriages from here:

http://bloodytrick.blogspot.com/2012/03/why-do-i-support-gay-marriages.html

Please, discuss!
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#471793 - 03/22/12 04:41 PM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Janina]
anna Offline


Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 219
Loc: Poland
Quote:
Why Church even has the right to say what is wrong and what is right?


Everybody should have a right to say what is right and what is wrong, to express an opinion, even a strong one, as long as one does not force one's beliefs on other people. Unfortunately, many Church people are arrogant, thinking they are better than others and judging others openly and ruthlessly. On the other hand, they are not so critical of their own sins, which they call "weaknesses". There are rumours that many young Catholic priests engage in homosexual activities in their seminaries. The reason for this is simple: the repression of a sexual drive which must be somehow released. Celibacy is good for angels but not for human beings.

The most annoying can be a government's submission to any religion, while it should stay neutral. It is not only a matter of morality issues but also giving the Church hierarchy financial privileges that other citizens do not have.

Quote:
I started to study this issue and find out that worldwide we have some 1500 different animal species who practice homosexual activities. Over 500 species has been even documented.


They also engage in other sinful activities: grin

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#471796 - 03/22/12 06:22 PM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Janina]
Phineas Offline
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Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8269
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/07/0722_040722_gayanimal.html

http://www.news-medical.net/news/2006/10/23/20718.aspx

From the blog: "Even if we watch the reason to deny homosexuality thousands a years ago we do not find reasons to claim it to unnatural. Love is love with all these 1500 homo species."

How does the blogger arrive at the conclusion that there is love involved here? No evidence is presented.

And while some still argue about homosexuality being unnatural, which it isn't, it certainly is not the norm.

Some species kill their mates, some devour their offspring. That is also natural, but not the norm.



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#471825 - 03/23/12 12:17 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Phineas]
Janina Offline
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Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1480
Loc: Center of my own Universe
Originally Posted By: Phineas
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/07/0722_040722_gayanimal.html

http://www.news-medical.net/news/2006/10/23/20718.aspx

From the blog: "Even if we watch the reason to deny homosexuality thousands a years ago we do not find reasons to claim it to unnatural. Love is love with all these 1500 homo species."

How does the blogger arrive at the conclusion that there is love involved here? No evidence is presented.

And while some still argue about homosexuality being unnatural, which it isn't, it certainly is not the norm.

Some species kill their mates, some devour their offspring. That is also natural, but not the norm.



Thank you Magister Phineas and Anna both for reading and commenting my text. To the Anna´s message I would comment that everybody indeed should have right to say their opinion about politics, religion and legal questions. I am not fascist but believe in freedom of speech. What I meant by the argument is why Christian Church should anyhow be the instance to decide about gay marriages. This in my thinking means that maybe we should consider that all marriages would be civil marriages and religious societies would decide after that whom they bless amd whom not marriage. This kind of system works for example in Thailand where the couple takes the buddhist monk to bless them after their marriage. Now here where I live this issue was "hot potato" some time ago but though we have civil marriage we also have state church so in every discussion there is always some priests telling what the church wants. Same time many gays say that why should they be interested about the thing what church wants?

For Magister Phineas I would comment that you are right when you say that we have no proof about love with these animals, do we actually have any proof about love even when speaking about human beings, except the feeling itself. My saying in this blog was actually metaphor for mating signals. For example penguins have had same sex couples living together for their entire life and we even have evidence about male penguin couple who started to hatch penguins egg when they found one. My metaphor tried to express that many species have same sex couples and activities so claims against homosexuality by saying it is unnatural does not work. It is just idea! Love is matter of speaking where I say that will to act or will to be together is natural.

I do not try to say that homosexuality would be norm. We live in society where heteronormativity is the social norm and homosexuality will always be minority. So yes it is not norm. Though it is not norm it is natural way for some people and that naturality is the thing I support. Freedom to be what you are not matter are you straight or gay!


Edited by Janina (03/23/12 12:24 AM)
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#471897 - 03/24/12 07:16 PM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Janina]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11560
Loc: New England, USA
Since this topic has come up, I think it's worth mentioning this essay from the COS site:
http://churchofsatan.com/Pages/FoundingFamily.html

My own reasons for wanting to allow gay marriage is pretty simple: I see absolutely no reason why homosexual couples shouldn't be able to go to city hall and obtain a marriage license. I have yet to hear a valid reason why, for example, a gay couple who has already bought a house, set up a joint checking account, and may have even adopted children, should suddenly not have the option of filing a joint 1040 tax return.

Originally Posted By: Janina
For Magister Phineas I would comment that you are right when you say that we have no proof about love with these animals, do we actually have any proof about love even when speaking about human beings, except the feeling itself.

A lot of this just begs the question of how one is defining "love". I'm sure anybody could come up with a definition which a pair of monogamously mating animals could even match. Regardless, love is completely irrelevant to the issue here. Marriage is a LEGAL institution. Whatever emotions a married couple decides to have for each other is obviously beyond the scope of what the government can do.

Quote:
Why Church even has the right to say what is wrong and what is right?

Any religious institution has the right to claim "what is wrong and what is right". Of course, we're under no obligation to agree with them. Likewise, individual religious institutions have the right to deny marriage ceremonies to whoever they want, but couples looking to marry always have other options.

More importantly, the US isn't a theocracy, so religious dogma is (or at least should be) irrelevant to whether gay couples should be able to get legally married. I know that some other countries have an official/state church, though I don't know how this affects the process of getting a marriage license in the respective country.
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#471900 - 03/24/12 07:47 PM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Phineas]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10129
love involved here? No evidence is presented.

You'd be hard pressed to prove the existence of love in humans. Abstract concepts are a bitch that way.
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#471908 - 03/24/12 11:42 PM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Bedlam Offline

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Registered: 06/29/01
Posts: 1658
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*swoon*

You're such an old romantic.

wink
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#471909 - 03/24/12 11:54 PM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Janina]
Bedlam Offline

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Posts: 1658
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Had the "usual" Daily Mail bullshit here regarding Gay marriage in the UK.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/articl...y-marriage.html
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#472074 - 03/29/12 04:01 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Bill_M]
Janina Offline
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Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1480
Loc: Center of my own Universe
Originally Posted By: Bill_M
Since this topic has come up, I think it's worth mentioning this essay from the COS site:
http://churchofsatan.com/Pages/FoundingFamily.html
...
More importantly, the US isn't a theocracy, so religious dogma is (or at least should be) irrelevant to whether gay couples should be able to get legally married. I know that some other countries have an official/state church, though I don't know how this affects the process of getting a marriage license in the respective country.


Good text from our High Priest Peter H.Gilmore. I have always respected his words and thoughts!

Here where I live in northern Europe, we have this little religious dilemma in our legal system that we have law for religious freedom and equality. That law gives us right to have education in our own religion in schools (so kids who come from Islamic families in public school have religious teaching in islam, buddhist in buddhism etc.) If you are member of religious society which has the status of official religion. This works also with funerals, wedding, and stuff like that. Same time than we have this law we still have the state church which in our country is Lutheran Church and they have more voice and more weight than other religions.

We have also civil wedding in our country as possibility to people non-christian or people who for their own reasons do not want Church wedding. We do not have the same sex marriage here. We have the concept of the registered relationship for gay- and lesbian people but that does not include same juridical rights than marriage like right to adopt child or rights like that..


Edited by Janina (03/29/12 09:38 PM)
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#472091 - 03/29/12 09:41 PM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
StabAvery Offline

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Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 717
Loc: michigan
Quote:
love involved here? No evidence is presented.


I have always looked at love as a folder to put a few mixed emotions into and call it one name, like a good mixed drink. I honestly don't think it exists other than a blanket term so we can move on with our conversation.

On the gay marriage topic, I do not see a difference in it from any other committed couple so they should get the tax benefits too.
I really do recommend Norm McDonald's "me doing stand up", bit about parents gay pride. It's currently playing on Netflix if you have it.
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#472092 - 03/29/12 10:10 PM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Janina]
Janina Offline
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Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1480
Loc: Center of my own Universe
Originally Posted By: Janina
Love is matter of speaking where I say that will to act or will to be together is natural.

I do not try to say that homosexuality would be norm. We live in society where heteronormativity is the social norm and homosexuality will always be minority. So yes it is not norm. Though it is not norm it is natural way for some people and that naturality is the thing I support. Freedom to be what you are not matter are you straight or gay!


Like I said in the answer I wrote for Magister Phineas, I used the word love as metaphor and my intent was to symbolically say the thing that for some species and individuals it is totally natural to have these activities and even "gay couples" if we like to use the term. This naturalness is the thing I support. To me it is like High Priest Gilmore said "Satanism is the only religion which approve man as he is"

I do not see we have any kind of evidence that thing called love even exist other way than just expression. We all have our own motives for doing what we do so some may want to get married for money, some for safety feeling, some maybe because of social norms or the marriage status. Reasons are many.
Like I married my husband cause I found him to be man who respected me as individual and support all my personal choices which makes me fall for him every day again.

Then why I used the word love is quite simple. I am romantic and like beautiful things like candles, symphonies and stuff like that, so that is the reason for word love!


Edited by Janina (03/29/12 10:20 PM)
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#473088 - 04/17/12 03:27 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Janina]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1681
Loc: Denmark
I also support gay marriages, but I don't understand why some of them want to get married inside a Christian Church!?

Anyway,

I'm sure you know about Quentin Crisp?! - If you don't then here he his, I really like him smile


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#473095 - 04/17/12 07:15 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: LightAngel]
Janina Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1480
Loc: Center of my own Universe
[i][/i]
Originally Posted By: LightAngel
I also support gay marriages, but I don't understand why some of them want to get married inside a Christian Church!?


Me neither. That was actually one of the best comments I have heard when dicussion about this issue was in national broadcast and one gayman said in this live talk show 'Why these Christian people here assume that we are interested about their mercy'. No one of the Lutheran priests on the show could not answer to that one.. smile


Edited by Janina (04/17/12 07:17 AM)
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#473107 - 04/17/12 12:14 PM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Janina]
Psychotherapeut Offline

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Registered: 05/13/06
Posts: 456
I couldn't care less about two gay people being married. I think it is paperwork, and they should be entitled to the same tax and insurance rights as any straight married couple. It is not relevant nor logical to bring theology into the equation, but it threatens the stranglehold church heiarchy holds over the concept of marriage in general. If government is not to have any influence on what happens in my bed room, I certainly would not advocate any church having such power either. It would be a boring experience if they did...
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#473108 - 04/17/12 12:20 PM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Psychotherapeut]
Quaark Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 8865
Why should straights deny gays the joys of divorce, custody battles, greedy lawyers, and alimony?
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#473109 - 04/17/12 01:12 PM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Quaark]
Psychotherapeut Offline

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Registered: 05/13/06
Posts: 456
Originally Posted By: Daark
Why should straights deny gays the joys of divorce, custody battles, greedy lawyers, and alimony?


My thoughts exactly... laugh
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#473121 - 04/17/12 04:10 PM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Psychotherapeut]
Janina Offline
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Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1480
Loc: Center of my own Universe
Originally Posted By: Psychotherapeut
Originally Posted By: Daark
Why should straights deny gays the joys of divorce, custody battles, greedy lawyers, and alimony?


My thoughts exactly... laugh



I think Reverend just nailed this topic by his words. I couldn't agree more with you in this!
devilchili
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#473129 - 04/17/12 10:44 PM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: LightAngel]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11560
Loc: New England, USA
Originally Posted By: LightAngel
I also support gay marriages, but I don't understand why some of them want to get married inside a Christian Church!?

Gay Christians do exist. I don't understand why they'd want to be part of a religion whose canon explicitly condemns their sexual orientation, but I'm sure they have their rationalizations.
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#473145 - 04/18/12 08:12 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Bill_M]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1681
Loc: Denmark
Yes they do! - And I do know gay people, and some of them are indeed Christians, but Christianity has always been very homophobic! - So it only brings them pain and chaos inside their minds frown

They will never be really accepted in that religion, because Christianity has nothing to do with love or understanding. - It's based on fear!

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#473158 - 04/18/12 10:27 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Janina]
Psychotherapeut Offline

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Registered: 05/13/06
Posts: 456
Universal Unitarians are accepting of homosexuality.
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#473162 - 04/18/12 10:53 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Psychotherapeut]
Quaark Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 8865
Originally Posted By: Psychotherapeut
Universal Unitarians are accepting of homosexuality.


All five of them.

grin
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#473170 - 04/18/12 03:17 PM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Bill_M]
anna Offline


Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 219
Loc: Poland
Quote:
Gay Christians do exist. I don't understand why they'd want to be part of a religion whose canon explicitly condemns their sexual orientation, but I'm sure they have their rationalizations.


I do not know personally any gay Catholics but some of them give interviews in newspapers or write blogs on gay websites, talking about their experience and their attitude to the Church. The majority of them are adults who, after a long and painful struggle with their own sexuality, finally accepted themselves as normal healthy and worthy human beings. They stopped regarding their sexual orientation as a sin.

They could not abandon their faith, because, as they say, they would miss the relationship with God and, contrary to what the hierarchy says, God accepts and loves them the way they are. When you love yourself God will love you too and the opinion of others will not be that important. It is easy for a self-confident adult to simply follow his own conscience and ignore the words of priests. They simply take from the Church what suits them and reject the things that they do not agree with. Some would say that it is hypocritical. Well, perhaps, but it is easier than sexual abstinence, which is the only "remedy" that the Church has for them.

There are also some organisations of gay Catholics who try to change the general attitude of the Church hierarchy to gay community, but so far without success. Some priests also belong to these organisations, either because they are homosexual themselves or they have more liberal views. The majority of these people are anonymous because the large part of the Polish society barely puts up with homosexual people.

Unless you live in a very small village where people know each other very well and can "report" you to your parish priest and, as a result, he can refuse to give sacraments to you, it is up to you how you reconcile your beliefs with your life. If a priest does not know you very well, and very few do, everything depends on your conscience. It is mainly your mind that sets you boundaries and says what you can or cannot do.
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#473182 - 04/18/12 05:39 PM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Quaark]
Psychotherapeut Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 05/13/06
Posts: 456
Originally Posted By: Daark
Originally Posted By: Psychotherapeut
Universal Unitarians are accepting of homosexuality.


All five of them.

grin


Ha ha ha ha! Well played! grin
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#473192 - 04/18/12 10:45 PM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: anna]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1681
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: anna


I do not know personally any gay Catholics but some of them give interviews in newspapers or write blogs on gay websites, talking about their experience and their attitude to the Church. The majority of them are adults who, after a long and painful struggle with their own sexuality, finally accepted themselves as normal healthy and worthy human beings. They stopped regarding their sexual orientation as a sin.



Instead of just reading blogs, then you should also visit the gay community, because then you will know that MANY gay adults still suffer because of Christianity, one way or the other.

- But I guess males with make-up is too much for you to handle grin *joking*

PS, If you really love yourself, then you will be God in your own life and then you don't need a Christian God to accept you.






Edited by LightAngel (04/18/12 11:37 PM)

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#473193 - 04/18/12 10:56 PM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: LightAngel]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Basically, liberal theologians argue that a)the idea of homosexuality as an orientation or identity is not even a century old, and therefore would not have even occurred to the writers of the Bible; b) the Biblical passages that condemn same-sex sexual activity technically mean to prohibit the sexual and ritual practices of neighboring "heathen" cultures, like the Philistines; and c)Jesus said nothing about gay sex, but had plenty to say about hetero relationships--and, indeed, for the, what, six references to homosexual conduct in the Bible, there are hundreds of references to opposite-sex sexual sins and transgressions.

All of these are perfectly fair and legit arguments, and there are plenty of very gay-friendly churches and even, a few gay-friendly denominations out there, but I'd still have trouble belonging to Christianity, personally. I don't understand quite how Christian gay folks do it, either.
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#473195 - 04/18/12 11:06 PM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: TrojZyr]
Delta Offline
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Registered: 12/18/07
Posts: 6751
Loc: Nar
There are also some Catholics who maintain that homosexual love is no sin, only marriage or sex resulting from it. On another level, a homosexual acquaintance of mine one explained to a christian in our crowd that the bible only prohibits a man "laying with" another man, so they only do it from behind or kneeling. This may not constitute a legitimate theological reconciliation, but it did make Jim shoot beer out his nose.
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#473196 - 04/18/12 11:14 PM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: LightAngel]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11560
Loc: New England, USA
Originally Posted By: LightAngel
They will never be really accepted in that religion, because Christianity has nothing to do with love or understanding. - It's based on fear!

There are already some sects of Christianity that are tolerant of homosexuals. Given that there are literally thousands of different sects of Christianity, it's not really surprising. As homosexuality becomes more and more accepted by society, and homophobia becomes less and less tolerated, I'm sure more sects will give in, especially if they want to keep some numbers. As The Satanic Bible aptly points out, it would hardly be the first time in history that Christianity has tried to "change with the times".
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#473199 - 04/19/12 03:05 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Bill_M]
Janina Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1480
Loc: Center of my own Universe
[u][/u]
Originally Posted By: Bill_M
Originally Posted By: LightAngel
They will never be really accepted in that religion, because Christianity has nothing to do with love or understanding. - It's based on fear!

There are already some sects of Christianity that are tolerant of homosexuals. Given that there are literally thousands of different sects of Christianity, it's not really surprising. As homosexuality becomes more and more accepted by society, and homophobia becomes less and less tolerated, I'm sure more sects will give in, especially if they want to keep some numbers. As The Satanic Bible aptly points out, it would hardly be the first time in history that Christianity has tried to "change with the times".


Yep, that's the dilemma of protestant and catholic churches. They can't/won't accept homosexuality because their conservative wing would leave the church and join more strict christian cults. At the same time churches want the money paid by gay and lesbian people so they simply try to eat from two tables at once putting these new rules like 'it is not sin to be gay, but live that way carnally' or 'gays can be cured' etc.

To LightAngel's earlier post I would like to say that Christian values does not come from love and harmony, but are in reality very sexist and homophobic. Christian ideas for example include the idea that man is always supreme to female and sin comes from femininity. Homosexuals are not accepted cause they (Bible only mentions sex between two men) gaymen are men who lessen their maleness to the level of female which is not acceptible!

I personally have little difficulties to understand why some gay wants to be member in organisation which does not accept him as complete human being..


Edited by Janina (04/19/12 03:07 AM)
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#473204 - 04/19/12 03:55 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Janina]
Sir Schwarzweise Offline


Registered: 02/03/12
Posts: 100
Loc: Hic et Nunc
If speaking of gay and Christianity (or other religious confessions), I'd say - they are directly related. I mean, haven't they created the very best surroundings for homosexuality by building monasteries and closing up decades of men without women?

Since I am not really familiar with homosexual issues, I am not stating anything. Just a version.
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#473205 - 04/19/12 03:58 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Sir Schwarzweise]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1681
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: Sir Schwarzweise
If speaking of gay and Christianity (or other religious confessions), I'd say - they are directly related. I mean, haven't they created the very best surroundings for homosexuality by building monasteries and closing up decades of men without women?

Since I am not really familiar with homosexual issues, I am not stating anything. Just a version.



laugh

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#473206 - 04/19/12 04:10 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Sir Schwarzweise]
Janina Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1480
Loc: Center of my own Universe
Originally Posted By: Sir Schwarzweise
If speaking of gay and Christianity (or other religious confessions), I'd say - they are directly related. I mean, haven't they created the very best surroundings for homosexuality by building monasteries and closing up decades of men without women?

Since I am not really familiar with homosexual issues, I am not stating anything. Just a version.



Who is the worlds best known transvestite?

Catholic Pope of course. The man who crossdresses at work wink
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#473207 - 04/19/12 04:16 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Janina]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1681
Loc: Denmark
Most Christians are not really followers of Jesus Christ, I wish they were because then at least they would be more kind! - ( the gay Christians I know are very kind though, and I also know other kind Christians, but most of them aren't really mentally healthy laugh )

Anyway, I don't understand why people need to ''follow'' another person?!

The only person I would ever follow, would be the person who knows where the candy is, in case I didn't know it first grin

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#473208 - 04/19/12 04:26 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: LightAngel]
Janina Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1480
Loc: Center of my own Universe
[quote][/quote]
Originally Posted By: LightAngel
Most Christians are not really followers of Jesus Christ, I wish they were because then at least they would be more kind! - ( the gay Christians I know are very kind though, and I also know other kind Christians, but most of them aren't really mentally healthy laugh )

Anyway, I don't understand why people need to ''follow'' another person?!

The only person I would ever follow, would be the person who knows where the candy is, in case I didn't know it first grin


There is two kind of people in this world. Followers and Rulers. Christian is always follower 'sheep of the God' so individuality is not so much value in Christian Church. We freethinkers of this world are rulers cause we ask the questions like 'why?' or 'what for?'. Individualism does not work with Christianity cause it demands faith, not thinking.


Edited by Janina (04/19/12 04:28 AM)
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#473209 - 04/19/12 05:58 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Janina]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1681
Loc: Denmark
Jesus Christ Janina grin you have a natural talent, you should be a preacher women for all the freethinkers in the world grin


*just joking* wink so don't spank me too hard laugh

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#473210 - 04/19/12 06:49 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Bill_M]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1681
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: Bill_M
Originally Posted By: LightAngel
They will never be really accepted in that religion, because Christianity has nothing to do with love or understanding. - It's based on fear!

There are already some sects of Christianity that are tolerant of homosexuals. Given that there are literally thousands of different sects of Christianity, it's not really surprising. As homosexuality becomes more and more accepted by society, and homophobia becomes less and less tolerated, I'm sure more sects will give in, especially if they want to keep some numbers. As The Satanic Bible aptly points out, it would hardly be the first time in history that Christianity has tried to "change with the times".


Christianity is a fairy tale, so it will change with the times, because it was never real in the first place.

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#473211 - 04/19/12 07:15 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Janina]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
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Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 6999
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Janina...I am totally on board with my desire to see the privileges of marriage being extended to same sex couples. The reason is that the couple, who my wife and I found the most fit to raise our son, should both of us die, is a lesbian couple. They graciously agreed. I have also slaved over my stove for guests who are gay. I cannot share my life with people and not give them my full support in what they wish to accomplish in their lives.

I do not feel that the argument of the clear fact that, in the animal world, finding a certain number of same sex couplings to be expected to be compelling when arguing with religious folk. The reason is, those religions are based on fighting against our natures. Do not be angry…do not lust…do not fulfill your natural desires…these seem to be the rules of god religions.
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#473212 - 04/19/12 07:26 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Bill_M]
DCLXVI Offline

CoS Member

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Posts: 1064
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Originally Posted By: Bill_M
Originally Posted By: LightAngel
I also support gay marriages, but I don't understand why some of them want to get married inside a Christian Church!?

Gay Christians do exist. I don't understand why they'd want to be part of a religion whose canon explicitly condemns their sexual orientation, but I'm sure they have their rationalizations.



I asked a "Gay christian" exactly that question. He said that, when they quote the passage referring to "unnaturarl sex acts," in his way of thinking, a heterosexual act would be unnatural for him. So, he rationalized that it didn't apply to him.
(Go figure.)
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#473213 - 04/19/12 07:39 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: anna]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1681
Loc: Denmark
Anna, If your Jesus is real, then I have nothing against him ( if he was the way I think he was ) - but christianity is a fairy tale in my eyes.

I don't want to offend you, I actually don't like it confused because I accept people's religion, even if I don't have the same beliefs.

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#473214 - 04/19/12 07:43 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: LightAngel]
Janina Offline
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Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1480
Loc: Center of my own Universe
Originally Posted By: LightAngel

*just joking* wink so don't spank me too hard laugh



Well actually I would very much like to spank you, but only for my own pleasure.. cool
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#473215 - 04/19/12 07:51 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Roho_the_Rooster]
Janina Offline
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Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1480
Loc: Center of my own Universe
Originally Posted By: Roho_the_Rooster

I do not feel that the argument of the clear fact that, in the animal world, finding a certain number of same sex couplings to be expected to be compelling when arguing with religious folk. The reason is, those religions are based on fighting against our natures. Do not be angry…do not lust…do not fulfill your natural desires…these seem to be the rules of god religions.


I totally agree with this one. It seem that spiritualists like to think everything physical at some way dirty and replace it with fate to death letter and spiritual pipe dreams.

The problem with Christianity (and other spiritual traditions) is that their believe in spirit over the matter fights against natural law of leving beibgs. I mean man is carnal and needs food, sex and entertainment for being mentally in balance..
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#473216 - 04/19/12 08:08 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Janina]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1681
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: Janina
Originally Posted By: LightAngel

*just joking* wink so don't spank me too hard laugh



Well actually I would very much like to spank you, but only for my own pleasure.. cool



What do you think this is..... a free bar or something laugh

My bottom is so beautiful that my farts would blow you to the moon hehe devilchili

Ok, I will behave now *Giggle*

Lets get back to what this topic is really about.

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#473217 - 04/19/12 08:24 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Delta]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Originally Posted By: Delta
There are also some Catholics who maintain that homosexual love is no sin, only marriage or sex resulting from it.


Which, to my mind, is even more bullshit than just forbidding homosexuality wholesale.

You can be gay, you just have to go through life WITHOUT LOVE, INTIMACY and COMPANIONSHIP.

Because love, intimacy, and companionship make Baby Jesus cry.
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#473218 - 04/19/12 08:26 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: LightAngel]
Janina Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1480
Loc: Center of my own Universe
Originally Posted By: LightAngel
Originally Posted By: Janina
Originally Posted By: LightAngel

*just joking* wink so don't spank me too hard laugh



Well actually I would very much like to spank you, but only for my own pleasure.. cool



What do you think this is..... a free bar or something laugh

My bottom is so beautiful that my farts would blow you to the moon hehe devilchili

Ok, I will behave now *Giggle*

Lets get back to what this topic is really about.






behave like a nun.. crossbones

You are just fine with the way you are!
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#473219 - 04/19/12 08:29 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: TrojZyr]
Janina Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1480
Loc: Center of my own Universe
[b][/b]
Originally Posted By: TrojZyr
Originally Posted By: Delta
There are also some Catholics who maintain that homosexual love is no sin, only marriage or sex resulting from it.


Which, to my mind, is even more bullshit than just forbidding homosexuality wholesale.

You can be gay, you just have to go through life WITHOUT LOVE, INTIMACY and COMPANIONSHIP.

Because love, intimacy, and companionship make Baby Jesus cry.


Christian Church has nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus. It is just death cult with it's own blood sacrifice Rituals!
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#473222 - 04/19/12 03:10 PM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: LightAngel]
anna Offline


Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 219
Loc: Poland
Quote:
But I guess males with make-up is too much for you to handle *joking*


grin And to refrain from giggling. We have a gay deputy in the Polish parliament. He has a funny way of talking like a young girl and has the manners of a lady. Whenever he gives a speech everybody is having fun from the Left to the Right because, no matter how politically correct you try to be, it is difficult not to burst out with laughter when you see a man looking and behaving like a woman.

However, hatred and contempt and pushing people onto the margin of the society, just because they happen to be different, should not be acceptable in any democratic country. But the things are changing. A few years ago it was unthinkable that gays and transvestites should have their representatives in the Polish parliament. Now, they have, because they got many votes in the last elections. Slowly homophobia is going out of fashion and people are ashamed to vote for extreme right parties.

Quote:
I don't want to offend you, I actually don't like it because I accept people's religion, even if I don't have the same beliefs.


Oh don't worry smile


Edited by anna (04/19/12 03:16 PM)
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#473228 - 04/19/12 08:51 PM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: anna]
Janina Offline
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Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1480
Loc: Center of my own Universe
Originally Posted By: anna
no matter how politically correct you try to be, it is difficult not to burst out with laughter when you see a man looking and behaving like a woman smile


So, do you think this guy wants you to laugh to him, or do you think he would like to be taken as seriously than others?
I mean isn't it quite un-respectful to make him to be joke instead of listening and learning what might you learn from him?

Twenty years ago black actors in showbusiness were in two roles. They were the guy who dies in first action scene or then they were 'clowns' acting like the image which middle class white people assumed them to act. Acting like 'black people does'. Maybe we should go back to these days and laugh to them cause they are black?
The man who acts as woman does(though I don't know what you mean by 'manners of lady') has a very strong female core in his male body and his manners are the way to balance these sides. He may just express his individuality by acting the way he does so you laughing to him shows your herd conformist way to see people. 'Cause he does not act like the rest of the gang we all simply laugh to him'.



Edited by Janina (04/19/12 08:53 PM)
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#473231 - 04/19/12 09:41 PM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Janina]
JDBones Offline


Registered: 01/27/12
Posts: 102
Taken from a 3rd side perspective - should we pay more attention to his words than those of the other politicians in the hall just because he's different? Common, guys, you're turning this guy into some kind of a martyr.
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#473232 - 04/19/12 09:41 PM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Janina]
L'Horreur Offline


Registered: 03/31/12
Posts: 115
Loc: New Hampshire
Originally Posted By: Janina
Originally Posted By: anna
no matter how politically correct you try to be, it is difficult not to burst out with laughter when you see a man looking and behaving like a woman smile


So, do you think this guy wants you to laugh to him, or do you think he would like to be taken as seriously than others?
I mean isn't it quite un-respectful to make him to be joke instead of listening and learning what might you learn from him?

Twenty years ago black actors in showbusiness were in two roles. They were the guy who dies in first action scene or then they were 'clowns' acting like the image which middle class white people assumed them to act. Acting like 'black people does'. Maybe we should go back to these days and laugh to them cause they are black?
The man who acts as woman does(though I don't know what you mean by 'manners of lady') has a very strong female core in his male body and his manners are the way to balance these sides. He may just express his individuality by acting the way he does so you laughing to him shows your herd conformist way to see people. 'Cause he does not act like the rest of the gang we all simply laugh to him'.



Seconded.
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#473241 - 04/20/12 12:14 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: LightAngel]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11560
Loc: New England, USA
Originally Posted By: LightAngel
Most Christians are not really followers of Jesus Christ, I wish they were because then at least they would be more kind!

Or at least that's the watered-down perception that people have of their mythical Jesus. Christians who think that Jesus was just all about pacifism and philanthropy have obviously never bothered to read their own Gospels, where they'd find he spends some time yelling at fig trees, responds to lust by saying you should gouge out your eyeball, explicitly says to give away all of your money, hate your parents, and so on. As far as I'm concerned, he's one of the most pathetic characters in all of mythology.
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#473243 - 04/20/12 12:57 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Bill_M]
JDBones Offline


Registered: 01/27/12
Posts: 102
Originally Posted By: Bill_M
Originally Posted By: LightAngel
Most Christians are not really followers of Jesus Christ, I wish they were because then at least they would be more kind!

Or at least that's the watered-down perception that people have of their mythical Jesus. Christians who think that Jesus was just all about pacifism and philanthropy have obviously never bothered to read their own Gospels, where they'd find he spends some time yelling at fig trees, responds to lust by saying you should gouge out your eyeball, explicitly says to give away all of your money, hate your parents, and so on. As far as I'm concerned, he's one of the most pathetic characters in all of mythology.



I have never read the whole "Holy Bible" in its entirety but my grandmother and my grand-grandmother were very religious christian women and when staying at their house as a little boy (which is the house I'm inhabiting right now and I have one of it's corners turned into a ritual chamber) I noticed that they had a bible almost in each of the rooms.

So, anytime I opened one of these books, all I could see (even as a child) was a vengeful, hateful, punishing and fear-inflicting person speaking - in general, no matter which page of the bible I opened, to me the whole stuff sounded like "Do as I say, listen to nothing others than me have to say, or else!". Even back then, I didn't like that notion and thought it was too much for me! So, yes - most of those who trust Jessie have maybe never read their Testaments and Gospels or if they have, they have not understood a bit of it... or, they're just true masochists.
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#473244 - 04/20/12 01:06 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: JDBones]
Janina Offline
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Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1480
Loc: Center of my own Universe
Originally Posted By: JDBones
Taken from a 3rd side perspective - should we pay more attention to his words than those of the other politicians in the hall just because he's different? Common, guys, you're turning this guy into some kind of a martyr.



I agree with this.

It's bit like the story of Harvey Milk who was homosexual politician in San Francisco, U.S.A . Whenever he started to speak it was changed to be an 'gay issue' cause people assumed that as homosexual man hes only intention in life is to be homosexual.. wink

My earlier point was phrases different and ordinary. What is different and what makes different to be something negative?


Edited by Janina (04/20/12 01:10 AM)
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#473245 - 04/20/12 01:10 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Bill_M]
Teufelhund Offline


Registered: 05/10/11
Posts: 117
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: Bill_M
Christians who think that Jesus was just all about pacifism and philanthropy have obviously never bothered to read their own Gospels, where they'd find he spends some time yelling at fig trees, responds to lust by saying you should gouge out your eyeball, explicitly says to give away all of your money, hate your parents, and so on.


I am sure that most tend to pick and choose those Jesus-isms simply to help them justify lack of action in life. Why should you strive to be better than others, when your savior was a pacifist who put others first? It might also be hard to support your position if your guy comes off like a sadist with tourettes. Necromancer who preached cannibalism, and liked to hang out with prostitutes...perfectly fine. Hell when I put it that way, he sounds more fun.

Oh and all of those things you listed above would have made for a bad movie anyway...even with Carl Anderson singing about them.

"Hate your mom and dad! Hate your mom and dad now!" Nah wouldn't have worked.

http://youtu.be/IvVr2uks0C8

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#473246 - 04/20/12 01:18 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: JDBones]
Janina Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1480
Loc: Center of my own Universe
Originally Posted By: JDBones
Originally Posted By: Bill_M
Originally Posted By: LightAngel
Most Christians are not really followers of Jesus Christ, I wish they were because then at least they would be more kind!

Or at least that's the watered-down perception that people have of their mythical Jesus. Christians who think that Jesus was just all about pacifism and philanthropy have obviously never bothered to read their own Gospels, where they'd find he spends some time yelling at fig trees, responds to lust by saying you should gouge out your eyeball, explicitly says to give away all of your money, hate your parents, and so on. As far as I'm concerned, he's one of the most pathetic characters in all of mythology.



I have never read the whole "Holy Bible" in its entirety but my grandmother and my grand-grandmother were very religious christian women and when staying at their house as a little boy (which is the house I'm inhabiting right now and I have one of it's corners turned into a ritual chamber) I noticed that they had a bible almost in each of the rooms.

So, anytime I opened one of these books, all I could see (even as a child) was a vengeful, hateful, punishing and fear-inflicting person speaking - in general, no matter which page of the bible I opened, to me the whole stuff sounded like "Do as I say, listen to nothing others than me have to say, or else!". Even back then, I didn't like that notion and thought it was too much for me! So, yes - most of those who trust Jessie have maybe never read their Testaments and Gospels or if they have, they have not understood a bit of it... or, they're just true masochists.




I have read the Holy Bible and have one on my shell between the Satanic Rituals and Taoist tantrabook.
The Bible, at least the season1 is very kinky stuff. Full of incesty, murders and slavery. Jesus in mythology follows the story of Horus in egyptian mythology and many happenings in his life has actually been taken from other myths than Christian.

In first part of the Bible we see lot of stories which are from earlier mesopotamian culture like Noah's Arch which was Sumerian story and already written before the time of Moses.


Edited by Janina (04/20/12 01:21 AM)
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#473247 - 04/20/12 01:23 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: anna]
JDBones Offline


Registered: 01/27/12
Posts: 102
Janina, I think you just took the first part of what Anna said, but neglected the other part which was:

Originally Posted By: anna
However, hatred and contempt and pushing people onto the margin of the society, just because they happen to be different, should not be acceptable in any democratic country.


To be honest, if I see a man act like a woman overexaggeratedly it would also naturally make me laugh - take this as you like it. I mean, I know gay men and most of them look more masculine than most of the straight guys I know. And there's others who try to appear as feminine as possible. To be gay doesn't necessarily mean to adopt female gestures. I don't know who the guy in the Polish parliament is, so I can't make judgement about him but..

From what I get, as Anna explained, this guy has been put in the Polish parliament just to serve their government's interests - in this case this would be to calm down gay masses by injecting "one of them" into the parliament. Keeping in mind how stupid politicians might be in their majority, it's no wonder that the rest of the pigs in the "Big Hall" are laughing at the "Sissy" behind the microphone. You can't expect them to be tolerable, understanding and thinking individuals. They're just polititians with good sallaries who don't give much f*ck about anything different than the money they make* (with a few exceptions here and there).


------------
* - I'm not saying this is a bad thing.
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"'cause down here in Hell everybody loves Me!"
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#473248 - 04/20/12 01:53 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: JDBones]
Janina Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1480
Loc: Center of my own Universe
Hi JD, I did read Anna's post and realized the point in it. In my earlier post I said 'and yes this is sarcasm' but then I left the part of f the text cause I was sure you woul get it.

It can seem like I would have been claiming Anna for being sexist, but that is not case or meaning so if somebody read it like that it's not the point!

What I mean is not juridical question, I am talking about the issue how people allways need somebody 'outcast' whom they can point with their fingers laughing the same time. This outcast phenomenon is very important factor when herd people create their 'one word consensus'. This is the thing we human animals start already in lower classes at school, there is allways some bully and some victim of him, then there is the silent majority which gives it's support to the bully by total silence.

Being different is still something which I would not see as bad thing at all. Like I am member of Church of Satan, freethinker and Satanist. I could only be outcast in the eyes of Christian majority who think my values are something evil (though I personally don't even believe such things as evil exist).



Edited by Janina (04/20/12 01:58 AM)
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#473249 - 04/20/12 02:03 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Janina]
JDBones Offline


Registered: 01/27/12
Posts: 102
Maybe today is not my "communication day" anyway.

However, I can think of a very good quote right now:

"Upon the Cross he did not die, they tortured him, but he survived
Smuggled across the open sea, to Southern France, tranquility
There he married Magdalene, and founded another dynasty
A church was built upon a hill, to serve all of the gods at will..."

I'm not saying I believe in conspiracy theories like this, it just sounds funny. Please, excuse me for my unorthodox arrogance, ho ho ho ;)p
_________________________
Man, I can look at photos of Me for hours! Honestly, I love it!


"'cause down here in Hell everybody loves Me!"
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#473251 - 04/20/12 02:15 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: JDBones]
Janina Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1480
Loc: Center of my own Universe
Here's another quote. This is from the british punk band called Crass:

'Jesus died for his own sins, not mine!',

devilchili


Edited by Janina (04/20/12 02:54 AM)
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#473268 - 04/20/12 06:16 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: anna]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1681
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: anna
Quote:
But I guess males with make-up is too much for you to handle *joking*


grin And to refrain from giggling. We have a gay deputy in the Polish parliament. He has a funny way of talking like a young girl and has the manners of a lady. Whenever he gives a speech everybody is having fun from the Left to the Right because, no matter how politically correct you try to be, it is difficult not to burst out with laughter when you see a man looking and behaving like a woman.

However, hatred and contempt and pushing people onto the margin of the society, just because they happen to be different, should not be acceptable in any democratic country. But the things are changing. A few years ago it was unthinkable that gays and transvestites should have their representatives in the Polish parliament. Now, they have, because they got many votes in the last elections. Slowly homophobia is going out of fashion and people are ashamed to vote for extreme right parties.

Quote:
I don't want to offend you, I actually don't like it because I accept people's religion, even if I don't have the same beliefs.


Oh don't worry smile


I'm not worried, because I laugh with you, not at you.

You are intelligent enough to get my point jack

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#473269 - 04/20/12 06:26 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Bill_M]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1681
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: Bill_M
Originally Posted By: LightAngel
Most Christians are not really followers of Jesus Christ, I wish they were because then at least they would be more kind!

Or at least that's the watered-down perception that people have of their mythical Jesus. Christians who think that Jesus was just all about pacifism and philanthropy have obviously never bothered to read their own Gospels, where they'd find he spends some time yelling at fig trees, responds to lust by saying you should gouge out your eyeball, explicitly says to give away all of your money, hate your parents, and so on. As far as I'm concerned, he's one of the most pathetic characters in all of mythology.


Lets say Jesus was real, then we can't be sure if he was a genius, or a person suffering from schizophrenia for example.

- If he did suffer from schizophrenia, then I can't really hate him because schizophrenia is a brain disease. - I would be very ignorant to hate a person like that wink

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#473306 - 04/20/12 11:12 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: LightAngel]
Janina Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1480
Loc: Center of my own Universe
Originally Posted By: LightAngel

Lets say Jesus was real, then we can't be sure if he was a genius, or a person suffering from schizophrenia for example.



Jesus was a drunken hippie, who taught he was the son of God cause he took too much peyote on the desert retreat and heard the God's voice in his head.. wink
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#473307 - 04/20/12 11:17 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Janina]
Quaark Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 8865
Originally Posted By: Janina
Originally Posted By: LightAngel

Lets say Jesus was real, then we can't be sure if he was a genius, or a person suffering from schizophrenia for example.



Jesus was a drunken hippie, who taught he was the son of God cause he took too much peyote on the desert retreat and heard the God's voice in his head.. wink


Peyote is native to the deserts of Northern Mexico, so that's not very likely.

Moldy rye bread (LSD analogues) however is a good possibility.

grin
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#473312 - 04/20/12 11:49 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Quaark]
Janina Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1480
Loc: Center of my own Universe
Originally Posted By: Daark
Originally Posted By: Janina
Originally Posted By: LightAngel

Lets say Jesus was real, then we can't be sure if he was a genius, or a person suffering from schizophrenia for example.



Jesus was a drunken hippie, who taught he was the son of God cause he took too much peyote on the desert retreat and heard the God's voice in his head.. wink


Peyote is native to the deserts of Northern Mexico, so that's not very likely.

Moldy rye bread (LSD analogues) however is a good possibility.

grin


I quess you are right Reverend. I am not so familiar with that stuff cause my only drugs are sex and cappuccino wink
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#473314 - 04/20/12 12:37 PM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Janina]
Quaark Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 8865
My reply was tongue in cheek of course, but, entire academic careers have been built upon the idea that ingestion of mind-altering substances by primitive humans (who naturally attributed the effects to deities living in the plants, rather than neuropharmacology) was a large factor in the genesis of many religions.
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#473315 - 04/20/12 12:50 PM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Quaark]
Janina Offline
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Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1480
Loc: Center of my own Universe
Originally Posted By: Daark
My reply was tongue in cheek of course, but, entire academic careers have been built upon the idea that ingestion of mind-altering substances by primitive humans (who naturally attributed the effects to deities living in the plants, rather than neuropharmacology) was a large factor in the genesis of many religions.


This is actually very interesting substitute. Many so called Shamanic traditions have had habit with the use of psychoactive stuff "soma". Like here where I live for example, we had strong Shamanist culture before Christian crusaders came and slaughtered the Shamans few hundreds years ago and local Shamans used the Amanita Muscaria which is also known as Fly Agaric mushroom to search cosmic truths about their Gods..

Many stories in Bible seem to have origin in "mystic" experience like that so I wouldn´t be surprized if they have had some kinda tripping tradition at the base of the teachings..


Edited by Janina (04/20/12 12:58 PM)
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#473318 - 04/20/12 02:30 PM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Janina]
JDBones Offline


Registered: 01/27/12
Posts: 102
Originally Posted By: Janina
...my only drugs are sex and cappuccino wink


My choice of drug would be a brand of cigarettes called Karelia 100s. Half my favorite artists come from a region that is also called Karelia and there's a great masterpiece by Sibelius bearing the same name. And I was actually born not that far from Finland... what a vicious cycle, ermh? smile
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#473343 - 04/20/12 08:54 PM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Quaark]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
>>Peyote is native to the deserts of Northern Mexico, so that's not very likely.

He was Jesus, he simply turned sand into peyote.

Case closed. eek
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"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#473344 - 04/20/12 08:59 PM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Discipline]
TheAbysmal Offline


Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 1024
I don't see how someone tripping on Peyote would have enough sense about him to do that...
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#473347 - 04/20/12 10:01 PM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: TheAbysmal]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
>>I don't see how someone tripping on Peyote would have enough sense about him to do that...

He wasn't tripping before he smoked the sand peyote. cool
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#473348 - 04/20/12 11:23 PM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Discipline]
Janina Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1480
Loc: Center of my own Universe
Originally Posted By: Discipline
>>I don't see how someone tripping on Peyote would have enough sense about him to do that...

He wasn't tripping before he smoked the sand peyote. cool



I was saying that maybe he smoked from the burning bush, but then I remembered that it was the Moses who smoked the holy smoke before he wrote the law on the mountain.. wink


Edited by Janina (04/20/12 11:27 PM)
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#473359 - 04/21/12 04:45 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Quaark]
XUL Offline


Registered: 12/12/09
Posts: 238
Loc: Oslo, Norway
Originally Posted By: Daark
ingestion of mind-altering substances by primitive humans


Quite by accident, during a totally unrelated debate on matters of psychology, I stumbled upon a viable alternative to the chemical mindfuck theory: The Bicameral Mind.

As for the subject matter itself (gay marriage) I think the French model is a good one: Only a legal body (judge) have the formal powers to marry people, but they may choose to be "blessed" by a religious body of their preference. That ceremony, however, has no legal powers. Which is how it should be.


Edited by XUL (04/21/12 04:49 AM)
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#473362 - 04/21/12 05:09 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: LightAngel]
Sir Schwarzweise Offline


Registered: 02/03/12
Posts: 100
Loc: Hic et Nunc
Originally Posted By: LightAngel
Lets say Jesus was real


If Jesus"Look At Me I Died For Your Sins"Christ was real, than they did well by crucifying him. Damned well.

Since he taught to turn the other cheek, I say - in your face, Jesus, in your face!


Hail Satan!
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If you're into evil, you're a friend of mine..."




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#473363 - 04/21/12 05:18 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Sir Schwarzweise]
Janina Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1480
Loc: Center of my own Universe
Originally Posted By: Sir Schwarzweise
Originally Posted By: LightAngel
Lets say Jesus was real


If Jesus"Look At Me I Died For Your Sins"Christ was real, than they did well by crucifying him. Damned well.

Since he taught to turn the other cheek, I say - in your face, Jesus, in your face!


Hail Satan!



You know, I am actually not interested does Jesus exist or not. I am either interested about the existence of God. I don´t really see how would it change anything in my life cause I am naturally born Satanist and would be no matter what is the truth about Jesus. wink


Edited by Janina (04/21/12 05:18 AM)
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#473365 - 04/21/12 05:36 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: XUL]
Janina Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1480
Loc: Center of my own Universe
Originally Posted By: XUL
Originally Posted By: Daark
ingestion of mind-altering substances by primitive humans


Quite by accident, during a totally unrelated debate on matters of psychology, I stumbled upon a viable alternative to the chemical mindfuck theory: The Bicameral Mind.

As for the subject matter itself (gay marriage) I think the French model is a good one: Only a legal body (judge) have the formal powers to marry people, but they may choose to be "blessed" by a religious body of their preference. That ceremony, however, has no legal powers. Which is how it should be.



I think that would be the best solution. After all why should some religious organization have the license to take care of things which are purely juridical arrangement.


Edited by Janina (04/21/12 05:37 AM)
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#473387 - 04/21/12 04:49 PM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Janina]
Nufan Offline


Registered: 04/16/11
Posts: 51
I don't think any religion should be forced to marry people, but it shouldn't even be a question as to whether people can form legal unions, as religion should not have power over the individuals themselves. So basically what you were saying about France rules.

I am pretty sure there have been questions as to the existence of actual person Jesus. He has so many similarities to many other deities worshiped before Christianity. Osiris is one, and is very similar. It's just an old fairy tale, that I think might have even been before Egypt. Osiris was 'king of kings', had 3 wise men and was born to a virgin, for some of the similarities. He deserves as much influence as those old gods do.

I am pretty sure you can even trace some things back to the Sumerians, which honestly is far more interesting, as they basically say aliens came down in space ships and genetically modified animals creating the human race to be slaves from monkeys, as well as creating animal human hybrids such as the sphinx. This is a much more rational explanation to me than, a guy in the clouds said some magic words and everything came into being, and it is much older.

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#473391 - 04/21/12 06:13 PM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Janina]
JDBones Offline


Registered: 01/27/12
Posts: 102
Originally Posted By: Janina
Originally Posted By: XUL
Originally Posted By: Daark
ingestion of mind-altering substances by primitive humans


Quite by accident, during a totally unrelated debate on matters of psychology, I stumbled upon a viable alternative to the chemical mindfuck theory: The Bicameral Mind.

As for the subject matter itself (gay marriage) I think the French model is a good one: Only a legal body (judge) have the formal powers to marry people, but they may choose to be "blessed" by a religious body of their preference. That ceremony, however, has no legal powers. Which is how it should be.



I think that would be the best solution. After all why should some religious organization have the license to take care of things which are purely juridical arrangement.


This is exactly how it works with marriage in my country.
_________________________
Man, I can look at photos of Me for hours! Honestly, I love it!


"'cause down here in Hell everybody loves Me!"
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#473410 - 04/22/12 02:30 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: JDBones]
Janina Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1480
Loc: Center of my own Universe
Originally Posted By: JDBones
Originally Posted By: Janina
Originally Posted By: XUL
Originally Posted By: Daark
ingestion of mind-altering substances by primitive humans


Quite by accident, during a totally unrelated debate on matters of psychology, I stumbled upon a viable alternative to the chemical mindfuck theory: The Bicameral Mind.

As for the subject matter itself (gay marriage) I think the French model is a good one: Only a legal body (judge) have the formal powers to marry people, but they may choose to be "blessed" by a religious body of their preference. That ceremony, however, has no legal powers. Which is how it should be.



I think that would be the best solution. After all why should some religious organization have the license to take care of things which are purely juridical arrangement.


This is exactly how it works with marriage in my country.


In our country it is possible to get married at register office, but we don´t have marriage for same sex couples. We have registered partnership for same sex couples and that is the excuse to Christian fundamentalists to resist the equal marriage law. The problem is that registered partnership is still separate institution to marriage and does not include all the same rights. Partner cannot take others last name or they can´t adopt children together for example.

Though we have this legal public officer who can make registration of marriage and registered partnership in the office of registrar. Christians resist the equal marriage by saying it should be only between man and woman. We still have the state Church no matter how modern our country is in other issues, so every time this issue comes under the public discussion the fundamental Christians are one part of the discussion and HLBTI people the opposite..


Edited by Janina (04/22/12 02:39 AM)
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#473412 - 04/22/12 02:44 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Sir Schwarzweise]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1681
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: Sir Schwarzweise
Originally Posted By: LightAngel
Lets say Jesus was real


If Jesus"Look At Me I Died For Your Sins"Christ was real, than they did well by crucifying him. Damned well.

Since he taught to turn the other cheek, I say - in your face, Jesus, in your face!


Hail Satan!


I don't agree, because If Jesus was real then he was never the real problem. - The real problem are all the people who just follow blindly because they are afraid to think for themselves.

It doesn't help to kill religion because then a new religion will be created, because most people need something to follow, they can't help it, it's just the way they are.

So I let people be people, and if Jesus was here right now he he then I would dance with him grin


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#473451 - 04/22/12 01:35 PM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: LightAngel]
Janina Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1480
Loc: Center of my own Universe
Originally Posted By: LightAngel

It doesn't help to kill religion because then a new religion will be created, because most people need something to follow, they can't help it, it's just the way they are.



I agree with you here. If there wouldn´t be such thing called Christian Religion, then somebody would have to create it!

Most of humanity will always need some "higher power" to feel themselves secure and their lives somehow more meaningful!

To me personally it is one and the same if somebody wants to believe these fairytales and let them rule his/her life, as long as they don´t try to feed me with their Christian values!


Edited by Janina (04/22/12 02:10 PM)
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#473472 - 04/23/12 02:15 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Janina]
Nufan Offline


Registered: 04/16/11
Posts: 51
I don't want to argue Janina, because I don't feel any animosity towards you, and I don't fault your opinion because it is noble but there is sometimes a point in one must act out and stop blindly having a live and let live attitude. Not just pointing you out, but me and everyone who hasn't or doesn't. Having an ideology and fucked up moral system such as Christianity were it to be localized to the point of a single person would not be harmful, but as everyone should know it is not.

Their ideas do hurt people, they cause problems and degrade society. The so called good from what they may personally receive from practicing it does not benefit society as a whole, and hurts individuals as well. Since it seems most people are prone to look as Christianity as a tolerable evil, it kind of makes me sad. There is not a single religion aside from what was taught by the Docktor which actually makes any sense, and is not really in comparison and all truthfulness a peace loving one.

I am sorry to be totally going off subject here, but I used to feel the same way, live and let live. That is not the truth in it, because that is not their attitude towards you. They do not care about you, they wish to change you and make you into the puppet in which they are as well. This is why do unto others as they would do unto you makes sense. Because although sometimes we would like to be nice live in harmony be in some sort of utopia, there are not people who will accept this, there will always be someone to try and take control of your life. So one must take control of their own life and their own surroundings, bend them to their own will. To me this is what satanism is. Taking control, and not letting others mess with how you wish them to be.

I honestly wish I could do this in every situation, but I cannot at this point do so, which is why I cannot allow myself to be part of the Elite at this moment. Not because I do not truly believe what has been stated, but I cannot do what it is a satanist is required to at this point in my life. I do not wish to be subjugated, and am not complaining, but I am not worthy at this point to be the actual person required to be a true satanist and do not wish to be a pseudo-satanist. So until I reach this point I would love to continue learning, and I don't need a red card to know who I am. I am me, and that is what I need.

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#473474 - 04/23/12 02:31 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Nufan]
Janina Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1480
Loc: Center of my own Universe
I don´t know what point do you mean but if you are not Satanist by nature I just don´t see how could you become one later. Satanism is not the philosophy for joiners cause Satanists are born, not made!

Like I said in my earlier post "as long as they don´t try to feed me their Christian values". It means exactly what it sounds like. I would never lose my freedom to Church anykind! Still why would I use my personal potential to something so useless than hating some organization. I live for my own personal goals and burning Bibles or Churches is defenitely NOT part of my interests. Actually I think such sentimental illegal actions like burning Churches these are not productive actions. My biggest concern with believe systems like Christianity is that it teaches people wrong kind of values by teaching them to avoid their own responsibilty. We are all responsible our personal choices, but Christians teach to trust religious authorities and quiet your own judgment skills. Most people still like I said are mentally so weak that they need spiritual authorities to feel themselves secure so this kind of religion suites them wel. As long as they keep their religion as their own business I have no problem with them. Some believe in Jesus and some Santa Claus, I believe in myself and live by that!



Edited by Janina (04/23/12 03:56 AM)
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#473475 - 04/23/12 02:55 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Janina]
Nufan Offline


Registered: 04/16/11
Posts: 51
I know they are born not made. But even so, not everyone who was a Satanist would have always considered themselves so. At one point some people may have considered themselves Christian, atheist, or some other religion. Even the Magus Gilmore said he used to be atheist.

I was not personally attacking you Janina. Your post just brought up things to me. I am not specifically attacking Christianity either. Honestly Christianity is so big in the US that when someone talks about religion here it seems that Christianity would be 50% of the conversation.

Not to argue with you more, even though I love to argue, what was I talking about that was illegal, and if burning a bible was illegal why the fuck should it be? It is paper, maybe pollution laws I guess, but no paper should be protected in such way. Even if it was a satanic bible I am pretty sure that it would be ok.

What I was meaning, was that intolerable religious ideas should not be tolerated when they cause harm. I am not saying to attack other religions, but why should we accept them. I was pretty sure this country (USA) was supposed to have a separation of church and state, and I am pretty sure Satanism accepts this.

As for my views. I used to be radically Christian, I had an inside view of the workings as my father went to Sem, and was becoming a pastor. I had a lot of the same observations of Anton Lavey, where I saw people using religion for personal power, affairs, people in church saying one thing then doing another, pastors doing things for themselves not because they were better, or had personal interest for others. This shook me, and I looked at things past faith. From there I was lost not sure what was real. This was many years. Eventually I researched every religion I could, although at first turned away from the CoS because of ignorance as to what it was, from being brain washed. I realized it had been (pun pun) demonized. It was not what I had believed it was. I thought it was said, eventually people will come to find the left hand path. I cannot think that most peoples journeys were not similar. But I do not think I am complete. I do not feel I would be any great addition to the CoS at this time.

I really hope that cleared up some things.

As for why other religions, not just including Christianity I believe are harmful. Individually I was harmed, I wasted a lot of my life. My familiy was harmed, my mother especially by believing in scriptures and that people who were "religious" were good she was forced through rape, other forms of abuse, and torture. The things that are most attributed to Satanism are many times performed by the people who most argue against them. People repressed are more likely to perform those actions they are not allowed to do.

There are people from the Netherlands here ask them about drugs, alcohol and sex. How much they are obsessing about these things compared to the tourists.

Anyways.. Gay Marriage good, repression bad. smile

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#473477 - 04/23/12 05:06 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: LightAngel]
Sir Schwarzweise Offline


Registered: 02/03/12
Posts: 100
Loc: Hic et Nunc
Religion in general is a natural step in the evolution of the human society. If Christianity wouldn't rise, indeed, another cult would rise instead of it.

But this does not mean that we are obligated to accept 'the Christian way things are'. I mean, everyone may believe whatever they wish to. But only at the condition of keeping it to themselves. Crusades and burning people on bonfires go a little beyond that line!

I hear a lot about tolerance, especially in discussions between believers and atheists. Though, haven't you noticed that this tolerance is purely one-sided? Try to demonstrate doubts about their 'sacred' doctrines and they'll cut you off with the immunity of tolerance towards them and their ideas. But if you will try, let's say, to claim your right of tolerance towards you and your ideas, which oppose to Christianity - not a damn thing happens. We tolerate them, but only a few answer with the same.
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#473481 - 04/23/12 05:39 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Sir Schwarzweise]
Nufan Offline


Registered: 04/16/11
Posts: 51
So would not Do unto others as they would do unto you apply here?

Why should we tolerate intolerance?

I do not mean people who are specifically tolerant, as sometimes it is more a personality issue than a religious one. When I say this I do not mean something like a counter crusade, but I do feel that at least some action should be taken at certain times.

Like for example the question, 'Should religion be a major part of a candidate's platform?' I believe no. Religion should not be what determines decisions, logical thought, ethical and moral considerations. Although sometimes the ideas may coincide, they should not be a major part of what determines your decisions. Use your fucking brain, not your beliefs. Beliefs are not moral, or ethical. They cannot be proven false, because if you believe something you believe it, unless you are lying about that it cannot be false.

For example I could believe in a bright red penis that grants people powers if you rub a your dick and therefore representing it.. I can't prove there isn't one, but in the end you are just jacking off.

Anyways, I agree. It is one-sided, and the argument half the time is "Well that's just what I believe", or something like "God works in mysterious ways". I already addressed the first argument. The other, when the fuck does that make sense? If I was at a store working as a cashier and the boss said, there is 140$ missing, where is it? And I replied 'It's a mystery' when would that work? So why should it work as an answer to an argument... Sorry a little heated myself about all this.

I know I shouldn't be upset and it is a waste of time, but shouldn't stupid people be punished?

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#473488 - 04/23/12 06:48 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Nufan]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1681
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: Nufan


I know I shouldn't be upset and it is a waste of time, but shouldn't stupid people be punished?


I think ALL people, stupid or less stupid, punish themselves when they don't make sure to create a life that is full of joy. - As much as possible anyway jack

Since you already know that you are wasting your time when you want to punish ''stupid'' people ( They often destroy themselves ) so why should you do the work?! - Unless of course you have to because they really get in your way.

I keep my focus on creating a great life for me, and my loved ones!

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#473489 - 04/23/12 07:10 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: LightAngel]
Janina Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1480
Loc: Center of my own Universe
If your personal agenda is to fight against the Christian Church whom ,you think, have cheated you then that is the project you got to take care off. Still, was your personal agenda what ever you should not wait others to follow you in your crusade or others to do something about this or that thing.

If you wanna change things, you have to be the change yourself!

I would not call myself anti-Christian, but I am anti-all spiritual religions. This means I do not have obsession against one certain form of spiritual religion, I question them all! In that light my earlier statement where I said that as long Christians leave me alone I have no problem with them is the most logical idea. My life is my life and I use it the way which suites me the best, my way is not in crusade against church but living my way with the people I want to support my totally carnal life!


Edited by Janina (04/23/12 10:09 AM)
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#473494 - 04/23/12 10:12 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Janina]
Nufan Offline


Registered: 04/16/11
Posts: 51
I just was venting I guess. Pointless I guess really, but it made me feel better. They have of course caused bad things to happen to me, but I am not sure if me fighting against them is worth it. I think people are not understanding what I am meaning, and I am not calling for some mass uprising, as much as hoping for some sort of awakening in people, but again it is doing me no good posting that here.

I don't think they have cheated me any more than anyone else. I do not blame only Christianity either which again maybe was a misunderstanding as that is the religion I grew up with, so it was the one which affected me which is why I used it lastly in that example.

I do not have an obsession with Christianity, but I do feel that religion should not be a thing used by people in government to base decisions at least not in entirety, unless it happens to fall in the same lines as logic. I do not believe that spiritual religion is good for society. These are all things I think, could try to logically argue, but maybe I broadened my scope of what I was saying too far compared to what I was originally meaning.

What I guess I mean is in daily life, I do not feel that we should have to tolerate everything just because it is base entirely on someone's beliefs. If it is a good argument logically I can accept that. If they disagree on a specific belief system that is to be accepted as not everyone is the same, but basing a decision entirely on a belief with no logical reasoning behind it is, for lack of a better word, stupid.

I just am not sure exactly how I could counter-act it when having it thrown in my face, many times during a day. Avoidance is not always a possibility, but aside from smacking someone in the head , which might be pleasurable but useless, I am not quite sure the proper recourse.

I am sorry if I seem to be cynical negative or whatever, but to me it is my own reality in how I see it. I have seen many stupid people succeed as well smile being competent, honest, capable, well spoken, and hardworking are not always the way to get ahead. Many times cheating, lying, being manipulative, and shirking responsibility then taking credit are. Not trying to throw a pity party, just stating what I have personally seen, especially the last one.

I am getting way too far along past this, I am not normally so unpleasant as this. I just am opinionated, and sometimes I don't have to deal with these types of people, and I am finally able to get away from many of them (at least temporarily).

I am not pointing my venom at any of you. And I agree with Janina and should realize it more, if i do want change I will have to be the change itself. I just need to figure out how to do this.

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#473513 - 04/23/12 07:20 PM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Janina]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
I have no problem with them. Some believe in Jesus and some Santa Claus, I believe in myself and live by that!

That was beautiful!!!

Cheers from a listener of your posts!
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#473514 - 04/23/12 07:20 PM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Nufan]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
Christianity is not as excuse to cry victim.

The true victims are those children molested by priests.




Edited by Unknown (04/23/12 07:22 PM)
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#473521 - 04/23/12 11:13 PM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Janina]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
I am of neutral grounds on this issue because I am not gay. So one way or another makes no difference to me. My girlfriend has some very close gay friends and she feels they should have equal rights.

I think the fight for acceptance is stupid. You can't possibly force everyone to accept what you deem appropriate. There will always be assholes who will say gay marriage is an abomination to god and therefor not acceptable. Hell even some atheists won't accept homosexuals.

I say if you want to be gay then be gay and do what you feel is in your best interest. Put the bullshit causes aside.
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#473522 - 04/23/12 11:18 PM Drones for Law Enforcement? [Re: Janina]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
So law enforcement will now have access to the use of Drones. In some states anal sex is illegal. Do you think in these states the use of Drones can be used to spy on personal habits in order to stop such acts? Or is such a thought preposterous?
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#473526 - 04/24/12 03:09 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Unknown]
MagdaGraham Offline
CoS Priestess

Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 13369
Loc: Scotland
Quote:
Christianity is not as excuse to cry victim.

The true victims are those children molested by priests.


Yes indeed!

While discussing gays, there is another aspect to xian child abuse which has not yet been widely publicized except in the Netherlands. In church-run orphanages, boys suspected of homosexual inclinations were surgically castrated. No estimation of numbers yet.
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#473544 - 04/24/12 12:43 PM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: MagdaGraham]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
Quote:
While discussing gays, there is another aspect to xian child abuse which has not yet been widely publicized except in the Netherlands. In church-run orphanages, boys suspected of homosexual inclinations were surgically castrated. No estimation of numbers yet.


Hello Priestess. I did a google search for this but the only thing I got was Dutch Roman Church Castrated Boys. This shows it happened in the past. Can you supply a source for this currently happening please?


Edited by Unknown (04/24/12 12:47 PM)
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#473545 - 04/24/12 01:43 PM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Unknown]
MagdaGraham Offline
CoS Priestess

Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 13369
Loc: Scotland
Quote:
This shows it happened in the past. Can you supply a source for this currently happening please?


Currently established cases happened in the 1950s and 1960s. Is that the past? The boys, if they survived, would now be in their fifties, sixties, seventies. They lived with their mutilations. What sort of compensation could they claim? They have no family to whom they can leave their money.
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#473546 - 04/24/12 01:48 PM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: MagdaGraham]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
Quote:
The boys, if they survived, would now be in their fifties, sixties, seventies. They lived with their mutilations.


Good point. But I thought you were speaking of 2012 this was still going on? My misunderstanding.
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#473547 - 04/24/12 01:55 PM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Unknown]
MagdaGraham Offline
CoS Priestess

Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 13369
Loc: Scotland
We don’t yet know if it is still happening.
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#473548 - 04/24/12 02:01 PM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: MagdaGraham]
Janina Offline
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Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1480
Loc: Center of my own Universe
Originally Posted By: MagdaGraham
We don’t yet know if it is still happening.



to the question which unknown made I would say that one of the worst cases was in Belgium, where there was systematic child abuse inside the catholic Church. here is one article from newspaper called the Guardian:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/sep/10/belgium-child-abuse-catholic-church
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#473570 - 04/25/12 01:04 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Nufan]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11560
Loc: New England, USA
Originally Posted By: Nufan
I know they are born not made. But even so, not everyone who was a Satanist would have always considered themselves so. At one point some people may have considered themselves Christian, atheist, or some other religion.

True...

Quote:
Even the Magus Gilmore said he used to be atheist.

Bad example. Magus Gilmore still is an atheist, as are all Satanists. Remember that atheism my definition means nothing more than not having a belief in the existence of any deities.

Originally Posted By: Janina
Here's another quote. This is from the british punk band called Crass:
'Jesus died for his own sins, not mine!'

I think my favorite quote on that topic is from Doug Stanhope. "They say he died for your sins. Well, how does one relate to the other? It's like 'I hit myself in the foot with a shovel for your mortgage'." Or from Jhuger.com, "Why did God sacrifice himself to himself, to correct a mistake he made himself?"
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#473573 - 04/25/12 03:46 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Bill_M]
Janina Offline
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Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1480
Loc: Center of my own Universe
I like the last one. I guess one's should be God to know answer to that one.. wink
Thank's Reverend for sharing it with us!

I could also describe myself with the term atheist, though I am Satanist. It seems to me that the idea of Satanist who believes to some higher entity is one very common misconcept with the non-Satanists who automatically assume that religion means fate to something outside yourself.. smile


Edited by Janina (04/25/12 04:07 AM)
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#473577 - 04/25/12 04:57 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: MagdaGraham]
Sir Schwarzweise Offline


Registered: 02/03/12
Posts: 100
Loc: Hic et Nunc
Originally Posted By: MagdaGraham
We don’t yet know if it is still happening.


I lived in the Netherlands for about 6 years in the period of 2001-2007 by reason of my study, and I still remember seeing several times such cases reaching the news. You can be pretty sure it is still happening and not a damn preacher bears responsibility for his disgusting deeds.

As far as my memory goes, the Dutch Catholic Church "offered an apology" for the deeds of its representatives.

And they teach others about Right and Wrong...
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#473578 - 04/25/12 05:07 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Janina]
MagdaGraham Offline
CoS Priestess

Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 13369
Loc: Scotland
Quote:
I would say that one of the worst cases was in Belgium


In my twenty-plus years of campaigning to debunk the SRAM [Satanic Ritual Abuse Myth], no one has ever considered which could be judged the worst. The millions of children abused, beaten, raped, mutilated, kept in slavery for years, forced to believe in their own worthlessness, sinking into alcohol, drug abuse, suicide – all by the christian church. Every one case is the worst one to that child victim.
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#473582 - 04/25/12 07:20 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Unknown]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 6999
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
Originally Posted By: Unknown


I think the fight for acceptance is stupid.


And I would bet a dollar to a doughnut that the more intelligent who deal with this issue would agree with you. The issue is more about this: http://gaylife.about.com/od/samesexmarriage/a/benefits.htm.
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#473583 - 04/25/12 07:49 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: MagdaGraham]
Janina Offline
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Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1480
Loc: Center of my own Universe
Originally Posted By: MagdaGraham
Quote:
I would say that one of the worst cases was in Belgium


In my twenty-plus years of campaigning to debunk the SRAM [Satanic Ritual Abuse Myth], no one has ever considered which could be judged the worst. The millions of children abused, beaten, raped, mutilated, kept in slavery for years, forced to believe in their own worthlessness, sinking into alcohol, drug abuse, suicide – all by the christian church. Every one case is the worst one to that child victim.



You are right Priestess MagdaGraham.

I apologise if it sounded like I would put cases to more or less serious ones. That was not my intent!

Priest of Christian Church should be "holy man" shepherd of his herd, so the truth that they can´t even be better than most of lay followers is very shocking thing!


Edited by Janina (04/25/12 07:49 AM)
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#473587 - 04/25/12 08:18 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Janina]
MagdaGraham Offline
CoS Priestess

Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 13369
Loc: Scotland
You certainly have nothing to apologise for. I just don’t feel any case should be designated the worst. Every one of the assaults damaged people; some survived, many did not.

And the cases keep coming. Every day. http://www.bishop-accountability.org/AbuseTracker/ A few days ago, Australian government decided to launch an enquiry into 40 suicides – I expect they’ll find a lot more.
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#473604 - 04/25/12 03:39 PM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: MagdaGraham]
Janina Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1480
Loc: Center of my own Universe
Originally Posted By: MagdaGraham
You certainly have nothing to apologise for. I just don’t feel any case should be designated the worst. Every one of the assaults damaged people; some survived, many did not


I agree with you here. We should not call some case worst cause it would sound that other cases are not so bad. The truth of course is that this kind of acts are very serious anytime, and when the attacker is priest whom should be the trustworty holy father it makes it even more serious. It also reveals that Christian Priests do not believe in the moral they are teaching to others. That is very hypocritical, and tells that their teachings are actually just empty words with no essence!
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#473690 - 04/26/12 03:44 PM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Roho_the_Rooster]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
If they accomplish that then more power to them!
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#473731 - 04/27/12 09:11 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Unknown]
Janina Offline
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Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1480
Loc: Center of my own Universe
In the name of God they left you to die, religious wars is no reason why they left you to die..

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#473989 - 05/01/12 08:13 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Janina]
aprilskies9 Offline


Registered: 04/29/12
Posts: 13
Hmm. I found it interesting that a man standing on a street corner had a sign with a quote telling people to read Romans 1:1-32 to prove that homosexuality is wrong in the bible. Had he read Romans 2:1 he wouldn't be on that street corner. Just goes to show people preach what they themselves don't understand. Oh well.

A lot of people in society just do what they are told. They will vote for what their parents, religious leaders, and friends tell them to vote for. It seems more and more that people choose not to learn about... well... anything.

I live in North Carolina. On May 8th we are voting on Amendment 1.

(yes I know, I know it's a crappy source but it is the only website I quickly found that actually states the amendment and is not just a bunch of ads saying to vote for or against it)

This amendment would not only outlaw gay marriage, but any domestic union that is not marriage. That would include me and my boyfriend; we live together. So I have a personal agenda with this amendment.

But if two people want to get married, who cares? If they are not a good match, are doing a contract marriage, are just horny, or whatever other reason they may have, that's their problem. It's also up to them to deal with the consequences if their relationship falls apart.

I asked a preacher why he thought gay marriage in specific was a threat to traditional marriage. He responded that it was unnatural and against the will of God.

The God remark was to be expected. (I will note that he threw it in as an after thought which I thought was amusing.)

But the unnatural part...

The only 'unnatural' thing about homosexuality is that you cannot make offspring. Personally I think there are too many people on this planet to begin with. Sexuality is just that. Sexuality. I don't see being attracted to the same sex any different than I see someone having a fetish. What you do in the sac and who you do it with doesn't concern me or anyone else really.

As far as it being a threat to traditional marriage... what the hell is so traditional about marriage now a days when half of them end in divorce? Why is this country so damn hung up on everything being traditional? I personally think it is because people are afraid of change and afraid of the unknown.
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#474427 - 05/09/12 03:24 PM Obama says same-sex couples should be able to marry [Re: aprilskies9]
Janina Offline
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Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1480
Loc: Center of my own Universe
Obama says same-sex couples should be able to marry

US President Barack Obama has ended months of equivocation on the issue of gay marriage by saying he thinks same-sex couples should be able to wed.

He told ABC News: "It is important for me to go ahead and affirm that I think same-sex couples should be able to get married."

Mr Obama has become the first US president to back gay marriage.

In recent days, Vice-President Joe Biden and cabinet member Arne Duncan had expressed support for gay unions.

The interview with ABC News' Robin Roberts was apparently hastily arranged as Mr Obama came under mounting pressure to clarify his position on the issue.

During the ABC interview, which airs later on Wednesday, Mr Obama pointed to his administration's commitment to increasing rights for gay citizens.

He cited the repeal of the military's 'don't ask, don't tell' policy and said his administration had dropped support for the Defense of Marriage Act.
'Powerful traditions'

"I've stood on the side of broader equality for the LGBT community. I hesitated on gay marriage in part because I thought civil unions would be sufficient," Mr Obama said.

He added: "I was sensitive to the fact that for a lot of people, the word 'marriage' was something that evokes very powerful traditions, religious beliefs and so forth.

"But I have to tell you that over the course of several years as I talked to friends and family and neighbours, when I think about members of my own staff who are in incredibly committed monogamous relationships, same-sex relationships, who are raising kids together, when I think about those soldiers or airmen or marines or sailors who are out there fighting on my behalf and yet feel constrained, even now that 'don't ask don't tell' is gone, because they are not able to commit themselves in a marriage," Obama said.

"At a certain point, I've just concluded that for me personally it is important for me to go ahead and affirm that I think same-sex couples should be able to get married."

In 2010, Mr Obama said his views on the issue were "evolving", a stance that had frustrated gay rights supporters and donors.

His comments came a day after North Carolina approved a constitutional amendment effectively banning same-sex marriage or civil unions.

Before that vote, the Obama campaign had opposed the measure, which was passed with 61% in favour and 39% against.

While Mr Obama is the first US president to support gay marriage, correspondents said the president's views on gay marriage were likely to upset some voters.

Some African-American voters oppose same-sex marriage on religious grounds.

Mitt Romney, the Republican candidate who is all but certain to challenge Mr Obama for the White House in November's elections, reiterated that he did not support gay marriage.

The former Massachusetts governor told a Fox News affiliate: "I indicated my view, which is I do not favour marriage between people of the same gender, and I do not favour civil unions if they are identical to marriage other than by name.

"My view is the domestic partnership benefits, hospital visitation rights, and the like are appropriate but that the others are not."

A Gallup poll on Tuesday suggested that 50% of Americans were in favour of legalising gay marriage - a slightly lower proportion than last year - while 48% said they would oppose such a move.
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#474782 - 05/18/12 02:52 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Janina]
Salem1985 Offline


Registered: 05/18/12
Posts: 1
I am gay and I would like to one day get married. However, I have NO interest in getting married in a church. I feel as though I am forced to abide by the rules of Christianity.

Well, it's not even that. I don't think I should have to live by another persons personal beliefs no matter what the reason.

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#475075 - 06/18/12 05:16 AM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Salem1985]
Janina Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1480
Loc: Center of my own Universe
Originally Posted By: Salem1985
I am gay and I would like to one day get married. However, I have NO interest in getting married in a church. I feel as though I am forced to abide by the rules of Christianity.



We all are. The Christian Church has got lot of influence in western society and though they are not so strong as they used to be they still are risk to individual freedom.

One common misconception in Christian thinking is the idea that somehow gays and lesbians would need their acceptance which shows total arrogance from them.
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#475162 - 06/20/12 03:47 PM Re: Gay Marriage [Re: Janina]
Mr_Darkside Offline


Registered: 06/17/12
Posts: 14
Loc: England, UK
I am also gay, and whilst the subject of marriage is something I haven't spent too much time thinking about (yet!), I would like to think that one day I would be able to marry my partner without self-righteous religionists condemning me and my "unnatural" relationships that displease their god(s). I don't care what anyone wants to believe in - Jehovah, Allah, or flying Spaghetti Monsters as long as it doesn't affect my life and they get off their soap box and carry on with their lunacy in the privacy of their own churches.

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#476159 - 07/08/12 03:41 AM Barney Frank, Jim Ready Marry In Massachusetts [Re: Mr_Darkside]
Janina Offline
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Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1480
Loc: Center of my own Universe
Barney Frank, Jim Ready Marry In Massachusetts



BOSTON, July 7 (Reuters) - U.S. Democratic Representative Barney Frank wed his longtime partner, James Ready, on Saturday, becoming the first sitting congressman to enter into a same-sex marriage.

Massachusetts Governor Deval Patrick officiated the ceremony and added some levity by saying Frank, 72, and Ready, 42, had vowed to love each other through Democratic and Republican administrations alike, and even through appearances on Fox News, according to Al Green, a Democratic congressman from Texas.

"Barney was beaming," said Green, who attended the ceremony. He added that Frank, a champion of gay rights and the sweeping reform of Wall Street, shed a tear during the ceremony.

After exchanging their vows, Frank and Ready embraced each other, Green said. "It was no different than any other wedding I've attended when you have two people who are in love with each other," Green said.

Frank, a Massachusetts Democrat and a former chairman of the powerful House Financial Services Committee, has been an openly gay congressman since the late 1980s.

He is well known for his legislative acumen, including as an architect of the reforms in the Dodd-Frank bill, which U.S. President Barack Obama signed into law in 2010 in the wake of the financial crisis following the collapse of the sub-prime mortgage market.

Frank's office in January announced he would marry Ready, whom he met at a political fundraiser in Ready's home state of Maine. Ready lives in Ogunquit, where he does carpentry, painting and welding work. Frank and Ready have been involved since 2007.

The evening wedding took place at the Boston Marriott Newton in suburban Boston, attracting political luminaries including Nancy Pelosi, top Democrat in the U.S. House of Representatives, and Niki Tsongas, a Massachusetts Democratic representative.

Before the ceremony, Frank greeted family and friends in a traditional black tuxedo. He was tanned and appeared relaxed. News media were not allowed to attend the ceremony.

"We're not doing any media today," Frank told Reuters.

Frank won a seat in Congress in 1980 and said he will retire at the end of the current term. Besides championing financial reform and the rights of fisherman, Frank has been a vocal supporter of gay rights, which have been gathering support in public opinion polls and U.S. high courts.

In May, for example, a federal appeals court in Boston ruled that a U.S. law defining marriage as a union between a man and a woman unconstitutionally denies benefits to lawfully married same-sex couples.

The ruling on the 1996 law, the Defense of Marriage Act, marked a victory for gay rights groups and President Obama, whose administration announced last year it considered the law unconstitutional and would no longer defend it.

Also in May, President Obama openly endorsed gay marriage, a move that will surely be a flashpoint in the upcoming presidential election.

His Republican opponent, former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney, opposes gay marriage, saying marriage should be limited to a union between one man and one woman.

Eight of the 50 states and the District of Columbia permit gay marriage. Several polls show U.S. public support of gay marriage rising.

In 2004, Massachusetts became the first state in the country where same-sex couples could be legally married. More than 18,000 same-sex couples since then have wed in Massachusetts, according to MassEquality, an advocacy group for gays, bisexuals and transgender people. (Reporting By Tim McLaughlin; editing by Todd Eastham)
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