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#471919 - 03/25/12 07:54 AM Green Eyed Hamsters
Epicurean Offline


Registered: 03/19/12
Posts: 6
When reading Magus Gilmore’s assay on ‘Green-Eyed Hamsters’ I was surprised to read: “Jealousy is an emotion often found in individuals whose estimation of their own worth exceeds their achievements. … They deeply resent the person who can do what they cannot, and more specifically, they resent the recognition given to that successful individual … “. I do understand, agree and respect what was written in the assay about psychic vampirism but the above introduction reads more like the definition of envy instead of jealousy? According to me both terms are often used interchangeably, but in standard usage they stand for two distinctly different emotions. Either separate or together both should be used with a good dose of self-criticism. As is written in ‘The Satanic Bible’: “Envy and greed are the motivating forces of ambition …”.
Would it be possible to elaborate on the subject?
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#471933 - 03/26/12 09:17 PM Re: Green Eyed Hamsters [Re: Epicurean]
Emily Offline
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Registered: 05/08/06
Posts: 114
Loc: Colorado
I interpret envy as the propellant to get shit done. For example, if I'm broke, but my friends have cash, my envy of their financial state would motivate me to work so I would have my own cash. Hence, envy is a motivator.

Jealousy, on the other hand, involves both a lack of ability to attain the object of desire, as well as envy. In this case, the dimwitted socially challenged dweeb is jealous of the fact that the attractive popular businessman has a pretty girlfriend. Since the dweeb is unintelligent, he lacks the innate ability to learn the necessary social skills to acquire an attractive girlfriend (or any at all, for that matter) so he is resigned to sulk at the businessman and can only feel jealousy because he is truly inferior.

Envious people want what others have. Jealous people want shit that they can't have. I see this as a form of stratification.
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#471934 - 03/26/12 09:36 PM Re: Green Eyed Hamsters [Re: Epicurean]
reprobate Offline

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Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Yes, there is a distinction that may be drawn between envy and jealousy. Envy is desire to acquire what you don't have, jealousy stricto sensu is desire to keep what you do have.

But the word "jealousy" also has a longstanding use in the other direction. So it can also be used for what is more precisely called envy.

Is your criticism anything more than semantic? Do you think Magister Gilmore's use of the word "jealousy" in this context is likely to cause confusion? Do you think it will inhibit comprehension on the part of any reader? If not, why stand on pedantry?

Hope you find this helpful.
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#471936 - 03/26/12 11:09 PM Re: Green Eyed Hamsters [Re: Epicurean]
Bill_M Offline
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Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11568
Loc: New England, USA
Quote:
As is written in ‘The Satanic Bible’: “Envy and greed are the motivating forces of ambition …”.

The line right before that reads "Envy means to look with favor upon the possessions of others, and to be desirous of obtaining similar things for oneself." That's hardly the same thing as "resenting the recognition" that a successful person is getting.

When I see somebody's work that I'm truly envious of, it's a feeling that my own achievements are at a state where they're NOT matching up to my own potential. It's a reminder that I can and should be achieving more for myself. That's quite the opposite of merely being jealous, which is how one acts when they have the feeling that they shouldn't have to do anything to better themselves.

I guess to oversimplify, envy is looking at a person who is successful in some way and saying "I want to have that too!" Jealousy is looking at the same person and saying "I don't want him to have that."
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#471949 - 03/27/12 10:21 AM Re: Green Eyed Hamsters [Re: Epicurean]
Epicurean Offline


Registered: 03/19/12
Posts: 6
More then sufficient.

Thanks for your time.
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#471950 - 03/27/12 11:03 AM Re: Green Eyed Hamsters [Re: Epicurean]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
I always thought of jealousy as wanting what others have, and envy as wanting others to not have what they have, if you can't have it.

So, jealousy is "I wanna win," whereas envy is more, "I want YOU to lose."





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#471951 - 03/27/12 11:06 AM Re: Green Eyed Hamsters [Re: TrojZyr]
Janina Offline
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Registered: 12/06/11
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Loc: Center of my own Universe
I think one is jealous when he wants to own something and envy when somebody has something he has not.

So jealousy is will to own something and envy when he thinks somebody should not have something he does.

For example men sometimes may have penis envy for some other guy or sometimes they can be jealous if this other guy has very pretty girlfriend wink


Edited by Janina (03/27/12 11:15 AM)
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#471952 - 03/27/12 12:58 PM Re: Green Eyed Hamsters [Re: Epicurean]
verszou Offline



Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 1814
Loc: Denmark
To me, envy is based in logic - I want something that something else has. I don't necessarily want the thing he wants, but I want something similar. I.e. I will be content to get a car of the same model etc. as he has. And this will be achievable by himself, he can work harder, change budget priorities or whatever.

Jealousy is where you step into the irrational, for instance it is often used in the area of human relations, a jealous boyfriend may irrationally suspect that his lady is cheating on him, he may be jealous of her new boyfriend or sometimes he may be jealous just because she is not his anymore. All based in what the person cannot. Jealousy can, in my example, also be a form of self-deception - thinking "She doesn't really love him" etc.
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#471970 - 03/27/12 07:40 PM Re: Green Eyed Hamsters [Re: Janina]
LordofDarkness Offline
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Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 760
Loc: Tennessee, U.S.
I find that Jealousy is a feeling resulted by insecurity, anxiety, and/or fear of loss. Enviousness is the resentful feeling of wanting similar if not the same thing as the other person while feeling secure and content but not satisfied with one's own possessions or social position.

In my opinion of course. cool
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#471976 - 03/27/12 08:08 PM Re: Green Eyed Hamsters [Re: TrojZyr]
Waya Offline
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Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 1449
Sad to say, I'm surrounded by people like this all of the time, even those that are close to me. I think some of the most dangerous people are those that have an issue with both of these. I do agree with the "I wanna win & I want you to lose". Why don't they just get up and do something about it? It's really not that hard. Things will not be resolved by having these poisonous feelings/emotions. It's toxic! Just like those that are always trying to one up a loved one or friend. Very sad, but I don't feel a bit sorry for them, they've pretty much done it to themselves. Being a good person that I am, I usually just keep my thoughts to myself. No need to play their game.
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#472002 - 03/28/12 02:22 AM Re: Green Eyed Hamsters [Re: Epicurean]
Dax9 Online

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Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 779
Loc: near Baton Rouge, LA
After reviewing that essay, "Green-Eyed Hampsters" in my The Satanic Scriptures I think Magus Gilmore was talking more specifically about creative efforts (music, art, writing, dance, etc.) and not so much about material possessions and relationships.

The "talent-challenged" or at best, mediocre, GEH will meet a celebrated artist whom he admires and then cling to his "mentor", hoping that he will attain equal status merely by association.

Inevitably, when the wannabe's piss-poor works are exposed for what they are by others in the field and by his "mentor", the GEH will then get vindictive and try to damage the reputation of his (charitable) "master."

Of course, I agree with everything everyone else has mentioned and would maintain that GEHs are indeed psychic vampires and should be shunned at all costs. coopdevil

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#472004 - 03/28/12 02:34 AM Re: Green Eyed Hamsters [Re: Epicurean]
XUL Offline


Registered: 12/12/09
Posts: 238
Loc: Oslo, Norway
I'd say that jealousy is rooted in feelings of inferiority or inadequacy (which is often -- but not always -- quite correct) whereas envy is something which happens between peers ("Fuck you for getting promoted before me!"). However, both can take as well a healthy as an unhealthy route when dealing with what causes them. There are no absolutes here.
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#472024 - 03/28/12 10:33 AM Re: Green Eyed Hamsters [Re: Waya]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Well, and things get dangerous when ensuring others lose becomes more important than ensuring that you win. People who've reached this point are often willing to sabotage themselves, in order to sabotage others. It gets crazy.
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#472031 - 03/28/12 12:48 PM Re: Green Eyed Hamsters [Re: Epicurean]
pastor ify Offline


Registered: 03/28/12
Posts: 4
Loc: enugu
Nice to meet you,

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