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#474703 - 05/16/12 09:08 PM Opinions of Straight Edge?
Tony Nine Offline


Registered: 05/04/12
Posts: 7

I am interested in what the opinion of Satanists would be on the Straight Edge subculture.

The reason I ask is because it is an example of a leaderless philosophy with no official organizational representation. Like Satanism there is basic dogma (no drugs, no alcohol, no tobacco, no "casual" sex) and universal symbolism (such as "X" and "24"), but unlike Satanism it is not a religion. Much like Satanism there are individuals who reflect on it in a positive way and others negatively based on their own combination of understanding and motivations.

So the question would be, is this something that would be generally considered compatible with Satanism?

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#474704 - 05/16/12 09:23 PM Re: Opinions of Straight Edge? [Re: Tony Nine]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11565
Loc: New England, USA
Originally Posted By: Tony Nine
So the question would be, is this something that would be generally considered compatible with Satanism?

I'm familiar with the straight-edge ("sXe") subculture. At first glance it seems like a blatant contradiction to the first Satanic Statement. But it depends on the individual Satanist, obviously.

I'm amused by the fact that the straight-edge phenonemon exists. It's a testament to the fact that there's nothing inherently rebellious about youth into drinking and doing drugs, and in fact it's so expected that abstaining from them is in some sense the more "rebellious" thing to do. Unfortunately I see a lot of pretentiousness attached to the straight-edge subculture. Like vegans, most of them are caught up in a stupid game of more-abstaining-than-thou. Talk about unsatanic!

If a Satanist chooses to be one who abstains from alcohol, meat, or whatever else are the requirements for straight-edge (the exact list seems to change from straight-edger to straight-edger), then that's his or her own prerogative. There's nothing indulgent about doing something you don't want to partake in. But there's nothing particularly Satanic about embracing it as an identity and taking it to pretentious levels.
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#474705 - 05/16/12 09:24 PM Re: Opinions of Straight Edge? [Re: Tony Nine]
J. Favenris Offline



Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 159
Loc: Portland, Oregon
It's not that the two don't share some similar basic ethics (self-discipline, desire for success, proper care of one's own self), but that there isn't a clear enough connection between the two. There isn't an official Satanic rule in favor of or against being "straight edge" other that the Church of Satan doesn't tolerate any criminal behavior.

For some people, life is better without any sort of intoxication. Others may be bored in lifelong abstinence for alcohol or something of the sort, and responsibly indulge in their vice of choice.

But inherently, there isn't a "pro" or "against" opinion from the Satanic front other than "to each his own."
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#474708 - 05/16/12 10:00 PM Re: Opinions of Straight Edge? [Re: Bill_M]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
My admittedly-limited experience with straight-edgers has been that they can be pretentious, haughty, and holier-than-thou.

By all means, abstain from drugs and alcohol if that works for you. But, not doing drugs or alcohol is a very, very silly thing to feel especially proud of, or, especially, base your identity on.
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#474713 - 05/17/12 12:45 AM Re: Opinions of Straight Edge? [Re: TrojZyr]
Janina Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1501
Loc: Center of my own Universe
Straight Edge is the movement which basically got started by one Hardcore band called Minor Threat. These fellows from Washington, U.S.A started the band and made song called Straight Edge which became to be the name of the movement.
I personally know many "Punks" who label themselves with the term Straight Edge but I personally donīt like the idea of converting people to behind of one philosophy though I support the idea of not drinking or using drugs.

In Satanism I would bring to discussion the "third side perspective". Some of the SxE people may be sometimes quite intolerant and narrow-minded with their philosophy and actually it is kind of religion for some of them.
I respect their strictness but donīt respect the fact that many SxEīs actually come to be followers of the Hare Krsna religion, which is very theistic and dogmatic "one god, one truth" religion based Swami Prabhupada some mid sixties.

My opinion is that Satanist may be SxE, but being SxE does not make one Satanist. Many Satanists are absolutists and many drink some alcohol. The choice is always individuals own!

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#474736 - 05/17/12 12:10 PM Re: Opinions of Straight Edge? [Re: Tony Nine]
Shade Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/08/06
Posts: 6135
Loc: A Trailer Park
Ah, those were the days... grin

I was 16 or so and lived in the D.C. area during Minor Threat/Fugazi's hey day. I just liked the music and the energy of their performances. It was a great way to vent, get violent and vixen it up. Minus a few black eyes I got it all seemed pretty harmless. I was such a sucker for shaved heads and Doc Martens. grin

More political than religious if memory serves. I'm not sure if there was any official association at the time but remember those boys being kind of silly, taking themselves far too seriously. I probably had way too much fun teasing them about it.

"Mr Inside-Outsky just like some God-damned Bolshevik picking up his orders from Yegg Central...."

grin crossbones grin

Which certainly didn't endear me to them. That and some craziness about not eating cheeseburgers or drinking coffee kept me from being part of the group.

Anyway, it's really a subculture I associate with that highschool age, with immaturity (I guess). And I think teens and young adults, in general, are kind of prone to quite a few Satanic sins. Uh, heh, if not all of them.
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#474750 - 05/17/12 01:41 PM Re: Opinions of Straight Edge? [Re: Tony Nine]
Prometheus Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/25/05
Posts: 1122
Loc: Germany
That used to be my lifestyle for quite some time. I haven't shifted much from it since, except for the fact that I have returned to eating meat & that I have a glass of good champagne on special occasions. To me there is no indulgence in consuming alcohol, tobacco or other drugs, but this is surely just a matter of personal preference.

sXe was no more than a personal choice in my case resulting from experiences with peers & buddies getting involved with heavy alcohol consumption & other compulsive habits. I had seen former friends turn into complete assholes getting absorbed in the sutpidity of weekends consisting of nothing but drinking orgies. At that time I felt that I needed to draw a clear division-line between them & myself. It coincided with my involvement with the Hardcore-scene & discovering sXe came shortly after. sXe just gave a name to the way I had chosen to live my life resonated strongly with my musical likes. Minor Threat was one of the bands it started with, but I enjoyed the aggressive & militant note that Judge presented on "Bringing It Down" more. Though it also found expression in my outward appearance, I refrained from engaging in any of the unpleasant habits of some in that sub-culure (compulsive activism, evangelizing, using the label as substitute for identity, etc.). Every sub-culture has its share of counter-productive dynamics & sXe is no different of course. Starting with the second wave, there were many who made a fashion-thing out of it & then all of sudden disappeared just to pop up in the next best fashionable sub-culture. Others fell for the religious & political currents that started to infiltrate the sub-culture in the mid-1990s. Herd mentality remains herd mentality after all.

My attitude towards substance abuse has never changed much & I have never felt it to be contradictory to myself being a Satanist. Both came just naturally.
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#474751 - 05/17/12 01:42 PM Re: Opinions of Straight Edge? [Re: Shade]
Janina Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1501
Loc: Center of my own Universe
Originally Posted By: Shade
More political than religious if memory serves.


I have also loved the music and style of these bands. Their energetic way to play fast with strong political statements. Their shaved heads and tattooed arms etc, but I never got into their "herd conformism".

There were few bands who had more spiritual ideas about SxE than purely political ideology. These are of course just few examples.

First band called Shelter (previous Youth of Today)

Shelter

Then hardcore band Better than a Thousand:

Better than a thousand

Hardcore band 108 Their name comes from the number of beads on the Japa mala, or mantra counting beads:

108

Krishna Conscious record company Equal Vision Records:

Equal Vision Records

Sri Kesava:

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#474752 - 05/17/12 02:28 PM Re: Opinions of Straight Edge? [Re: TrojZyr]
RoyceDavis Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 11/15/10
Posts: 133
Loc: Ukiah, Ca. US
Originally Posted By: TrojZyr
My admittedly-limited experience with straight-edgers has been that they can be pretentious, haughty, and holier-than-thou.

By all means, abstain from drugs and alcohol if that works for you. But, not doing drugs or alcohol is a very, very silly thing to feel especially proud of, or, especially, base your identity on.


I agree with this statement completely.

Also, there is hypocrisy in all groups of people, and the individual is not always the essence of the group, but the identifier a person chooses to be known by says volumes about their personality. I prefer people who choose to be identified by what they do, instead of what they don't do.
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#474753 - 05/17/12 03:16 PM Re: Opinions of Straight Edge? [Re: Janina]
Shade Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/08/06
Posts: 6135
Loc: A Trailer Park
Okey dokey. I never really paid attention to all that, was more interested in flirting with boys. Unfortunately, every single skinhead in the world does not look like Russell Crow in Romper Stomper.

Actually, that's probably a good thing really because otherwise I may never've discovered the singularly awesome raw werewolf sex appeal of men like Rob Zombie.

(... who I still totally have a crush on.)

grin coopdevil
_________________________
"What happens in the shadow, in the grey regions, also interests us – all that is elusive and fugitive, all that can be said in those beautiful half tones, or in whispers, in deep shade." ~ The Brothers Quay

We're Just Regular People

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#474754 - 05/17/12 04:02 PM Re: Opinions of Straight Edge? [Re: Shade]
Janina Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1501
Loc: Center of my own Universe
Originally Posted By: Shade
Okey dokey. I never really paid attention to all that, was more interested in flirting with boys. Unfortunately, every single skinhead in the world does not look like Russell Crow in Romper Stomper.

Actually, that's probably a good thing really because otherwise I may never've discovered the singularly awesome raw werewolf sex appeal of men like Rob Zombie.

(... who I still totally have a crush on.)

grin coopdevil



I donīt know why this made me laugh, but your post delighted my evening.

In the good way, I mean!

laugh

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#474756 - 05/17/12 04:39 PM Re: Opinions of Straight Edge? [Re: TrojZyr]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
About 10 years ago, a friend of mine from the US told me about a sub-movement within the Straight Edge/Hard Core scenes in New England. Apparently a few bands had all joined ISKCON or adopted their beliefs, because they squared well with SXE beliefs. When they started singing about their new faith, they effectively introduced a genre they called "Krishnacore".


Edited by reprobate (05/17/12 04:39 PM)
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#474757 - 05/17/12 04:40 PM Re: Opinions of Straight Edge? [Re: Tony Nine]
Psychotherapeut Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 05/13/06
Posts: 456
The irony is that the guys from Minor Threat would still have a beer occasionally. The point started out as against excess and evolved into complete abstinence. I have friends and relatives who practice the same ideals but don't wear it on their arms and I have more respect for them than someone having to identify with a group to feel validated about their personal choice.

There are also splinter subcultures that are militant, which is just absurd. A neo-Nazi with red laces is a neo-Nazi with red laces regardless of their sXe battlecry...

Ultimately, I say whatever works for you. Just don't come up to me at a show and slap the beer out of my hand and we'll be cool... laugh
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#474772 - 05/17/12 11:31 PM Re: Opinions of Straight Edge? [Re: Janina]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11565
Loc: New England, USA
I've wondered how sXe as a music genre was ever able to survive, because in my experience the entire music club scene is pretty much based on the business of selling alcohol. Clubs that feature local bands are ultimately only interested in selling drinks as a bar; the band is the bait to bring in those people who otherwise wouldn't be going to that bar on a Tuesday night. When garage bands play their first club shows, that ticket money is going first and foremost to pay the bartender, not the bands. Comedy clubs aren't that much different, often requiring a 2-drink minimum purchase.

So if sXe bands have managed to find ways of working outside of this system, I at least given them kudos for that. I'd be curious what successful business models (if any) they've had. I've heard of "juice bars", which additionally let you bring in the under-21 crowd, but I'm wondering just how successful they are.
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Reverend Bill M.

http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
New hour every week. Download the mp3 now!

http://www.aplaceformystuff.org: Tales of Combat Clutter and other Adventures

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#474779 - 05/18/12 01:32 AM Re: Opinions of Straight Edge? [Re: Tony Nine]
Citizen Jonesy Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/22/02
Posts: 995
Loc: Palm Springs, California, USA
I personally see them as another group of Good Guy Badge wearers.

I just usually ignore them. Out of sight, out of mind.
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