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#477036 - 07/20/12 08:02 PM You could say I don't understand the church of Satan.
Ezpzcpizzi Offline
Whinebag

Registered: 07/20/12
Posts: 11
Well, I had just decided to utilize the internet for educating me on a subject today. But looking up Satanism, in the atheistic manner, is quite odd to me.
I've read the basic rules and beliefs of this religion, but I don't quite see the point to it. It seems that this is closely related to atheism in the fact that it doesn't change anything about the participator's daily life. It seems to promote indulgence in things that feel nice in a physical or emotional aspect, and also the expression of who a person truly is, without the influence of society. If this is the case, I live this way already, and I follow no religion. I do not see the need to be told to act how you would regularly act. Having another religion for things doesn't seem to be a good answer, we really have enough already. I feel like it may just create another group of people to hate, when all they are doing is displaying their true characteristics. On that note, why would Satan be a good representation of this? I can only theorize that Satan represents the opposite to the organized religions we have in society now. But Satan is just the other extreme, and like I've stated, a reason for people to direct hate.
Again, I would like to state I have not done that much research on this topic. I just know that I go about living as myself, without societal influence, but I attempt to be discrete, and I do not require a religion to tell me how to act that way. You all seem intelligent, which baffles me the most, so I ask of you to provide me with answers. Thank you.

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#477037 - 07/20/12 08:17 PM Re: You could say I don't understand the church of Satan. [Re: Ezpzcpizzi]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8257
All the answers you seek are provided in The Satanic Bible, Dr. LaVey's writings, and the Church of Satan website. Your questions have been asked many times before.

We are not here to educate or constantly regurgitate replies that can be obtained by a person's own research.

By your own account, you are not a Satanist, just curious about it. And, you admit to not doing much research.

Therefore, that is what you need to do.

Onwards with your research!



_________________________
"Consensus is the absence of leadership." Margaret Thatcher

"I'm fascinated with how primitive the human mind still is. It can be misdirected so easily." John Gaughan


"Success is uncommon. Therefore, not to be enjoyed by the common man." Cal Stoll

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#477039 - 07/20/12 08:49 PM Re: You could say I don't understand the church of Satan. [Re: Ezpzcpizzi]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10118
So if I told you humans have this tendency, when there are many of them of like mind, to form societies, lodges, organizations, etc, you would be utterly surprised?

Seriously?

Sounds pretty ignorant to me, though decidedly better than the alternative that you just thought you'd be a pain in the ass, hoping to trip us up by asking what higher purpose we have. Sorry chief, some things are done for their own sake.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#477040 - 07/20/12 08:55 PM Re: You could say I don't understand the church of Satan. [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Ezpzcpizzi Offline
Whinebag

Registered: 07/20/12
Posts: 11
Not attempting to trip anyone up, so you say. But to answer that question, I would not be surprised for like minded to form organizations, but it seems that everyone is being themselves, and if that is the case, how could they all be like minded.

I tend to see struggle bring people into community together, even with beliefs. Often addressing the struggles that following that belief create.

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#477041 - 07/20/12 08:59 PM Re: You could say I don't understand the church of Satan. [Re: Phineas]
Ezpzcpizzi Offline
Whinebag

Registered: 07/20/12
Posts: 11
Obviously I'm not aware of how many times you get asked the same questions. I just really don't want to commit the time to read the whole bible. I'm pretty much asking for condensing and personal opinions on how it has helped them in certain ways to be a part of this religion.

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#477042 - 07/20/12 09:00 PM Re: You could say I don't understand the church of Satan. [Re: Ezpzcpizzi]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8257
You expect all of this for free? grin

You expect US to do the work for you?

Not going to happen.
_________________________
"Consensus is the absence of leadership." Margaret Thatcher

"I'm fascinated with how primitive the human mind still is. It can be misdirected so easily." John Gaughan


"Success is uncommon. Therefore, not to be enjoyed by the common man." Cal Stoll

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#477043 - 07/20/12 09:07 PM Re: You could say I don't understand the church of Satan. [Re: Phineas]
Ezpzcpizzi Offline
Whinebag

Registered: 07/20/12
Posts: 11
For free? I wasn't aware I should pay money for such knowledge.
I honestly just didn't expect people on here to be so unwilling to educate on the subject. This religion is looked down upon by so many, I would assume that explaining why it is important to the people participating would not be a problem. I talk to Christians, Amish, Mennonite, and Muslims, and I ask them things that could help me better understand what their religion is and why they utilize it. I'm fascinated, I didn't expect to be a burden.

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#477044 - 07/20/12 09:18 PM Re: You could say I don't understand the church of Satan. [Re: Ezpzcpizzi]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8257
If you had done your research, all of this would have been clear.

Once again, since it hasn't registered: do your own homework.

It will not be done for you.
_________________________
"Consensus is the absence of leadership." Margaret Thatcher

"I'm fascinated with how primitive the human mind still is. It can be misdirected so easily." John Gaughan


"Success is uncommon. Therefore, not to be enjoyed by the common man." Cal Stoll

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#477045 - 07/20/12 09:21 PM Re: You could say I don't understand the church of Satan. [Re: Ezpzcpizzi]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10118
I would not be surprised for like minded to form organizations, but it seems that everyone is being themselves, and if that is the case, how could they all be like minded.

What exactly is the big mystery here? Are you under some impression that the only purpose of an organization is to tell its members what to do? Or that individualists may not have anything in common whatsoever?

The only thing I can guess from this is that you've somehow gotten the impression that Satanism is egalitarian, that "being yourself" is the qualifier and nothing more. If not, and you assert that you are aware that Satanism entails more than merely being yourself, then you already have your answer, and the question is pointless.

I tend to see struggle bring people into community together, even with beliefs. Often addressing the struggles that following that belief create.

So basically you're beating around the bush to say that you think we call ourselves Satanists to antagonize people and make trouble for ourselves, and we exist as a support group for the inevitable problems that arise from this.

Why not just say that more plainly so nobody has to decode your swipe at us?
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#477046 - 07/20/12 09:28 PM Re: You could say I don't understand the church of Satan. [Re: Phineas]
Ezpzcpizzi Offline
Whinebag

Registered: 07/20/12
Posts: 11
Well you know, I have read what is available on that website. I can not exactly purchase the bible and read it at this moment. The whole atmosphere in this forum has had me walking on eggshells. I'm average, I'm educated, but because I haven't read an extreme amount on your specific subject, I am treated like a moron. Honestly, from what I read on your religion, I don't even understand the behavior I get from you. I have definitely been developing a dislike for this religion through this time. You all seem intelligent, but unwilling to develop a conversation, and quite pompous, honestly. I just wanted human perspective - to put a person to a religion - but the response just feels robotic.

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#477047 - 07/20/12 09:33 PM Re: You could say I don't understand the church of Satan. [Re: Ezpzcpizzi]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8257
Thank you.

The next time you take a college course, don't do the homework, don't read the assignment, just show up and ask the professor to provide you with a synopsis and then lets see if you are treated as anything but bright.

You and your sense of entitlement are welcome to move on.

There is nothing for you here.
_________________________
"Consensus is the absence of leadership." Margaret Thatcher

"I'm fascinated with how primitive the human mind still is. It can be misdirected so easily." John Gaughan


"Success is uncommon. Therefore, not to be enjoyed by the common man." Cal Stoll

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#477048 - 07/20/12 09:36 PM Re: You could say I don't understand the church of Satan. [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Ezpzcpizzi Offline
Whinebag

Registered: 07/20/12
Posts: 11
First, why so defensive? I'm attempting to ask questions without making anything sound offensive.

Well I am not under the impression that it is just being yourself, but it seems to include many qualifiers that are already expressed by being oneself. But what does an organization do, in this case? This is obviously my question, and my idea of common struggles was my theory. Also I have no idea how that theory relates to you all starting trouble with people, because that is just support and has nothing to do with the public.

I really hate this conversation because I feel everything I say is taken from an argumentative stance, and blown out of proportion. I'm getting anger back, but I don't have a problem with your religion, by any means. I'm more of a to each his own person.

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#477049 - 07/20/12 09:39 PM Re: You could say I don't understand the church of Satan. [Re: Phineas]
Ezpzcpizzi Offline
Whinebag

Registered: 07/20/12
Posts: 11
Ah, but would you pay for a course that was not on your college plan? Or ask another who has taken psychology, or whatever class, to answer the few questions you have with their gained knowledge? It all sounds so selfish.

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#477050 - 07/20/12 09:42 PM Re: You could say I don't understand the church of Satan. [Re: Ezpzcpizzi]
Psychotherapeut Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 05/13/06
Posts: 456
Originally Posted By: Ezpzcpizzi
I talk to Christians, Amish, Mennonite, and Muslims, and I ask them things that could help me better understand what their religion is and why they utilize it. I'm fascinated, I didn't expect to be a burden.


Satanists don't proselytize like members of the religions you mentioned. No one wants to write an explanation because you can take some time yourself to find the information with very little effort.

Magister Phineas has already directed you to read what is publicly available on the Church of Satan website; this is a start that would require little commitment as you appear so hesitant (though this hesitance indicates it really isn't that big a concern for you, so why the hell would it be for anyone here?).

You are also looking at a forum founded and populated by members and hierarchy of the Church of Satan; read the other posts instead of expecting to be spoon fed information because you don't want to commit to reading such a short and concise book as the Satanic Bible.

Honestly, if you can't bother to put in the effort then I'd say don't bother as Satanism obviously isn't for you; the core of the philosophy would escape you as an individual.
_________________________
Mein Leben, Meine Chance

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#477051 - 07/20/12 09:50 PM Re: You could say I don't understand the church of Satan. [Re: Ezpzcpizzi]
Psychotherapeut Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 05/13/06
Posts: 456
Originally Posted By: Ezpzcpizzi
Ah, but would you pay for a course that was not on your college plan? Or ask another who has taken psychology, or whatever class, to answer the few questions you have with their gained knowledge? It all sounds so selfish.


I would most certainly and in fact have taken course work over the years that was outside of my intended track. I paid for the class and got what I wanted from the experience.

From what I can disseminate your question is basically "what is the point of Satanism?" This is hardly something that would be summarized in a few sentences and neatly wrapped with a bow on top. It is individually defined, and without reading and learning you can't expect this concept or philosophy to translate regardless.
_________________________
Mein Leben, Meine Chance

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#477052 - 07/20/12 09:50 PM Re: You could say I don't understand the church of Satan. [Re: Ezpzcpizzi]
Janina Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1447
Loc: Center of my own Universe
Originally Posted By: Ezpzcpizzi
You all seem intelligent, but unwilling to develop a conversation, and quite pompous, honestly. I just wanted human perspective - to put a person to a religion - but the response just feels robotic.


Well first of all. You are theorizing now something you donīt understand because of lack of information!

I was not suppose to comment this topic cause you already got the answers you need, and you got them from members of our Priesthood Magister Phineas and Priest Tronje. Still after reading your post I got one question to my mind and I wanted to ask you the question before sharing my knowledge with you (If thatīs selfish then fine).

Did you understand what "getting everything for free" meant, or are you just trying to argue for the reason of provocation? All the information you are asking people to share is alredy there and all of us have found it with study. Why you should now get it free before even sharing who you are with the rest of us?

Like Psychotherapeut already stated, if you are not willing to even read the Satanic Bible, which is the base and includes the essence of whole philosophy, why you think those who did to share automatically all their inspiration and understanding with you? It is basically the same than asking your classmate in school to do your homework cause you are not interested to study certain issue and then assume that after your mate has done the homeworks you somehow magically understand the issue without reading a word about actual issue

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Devilīs Advocate

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#477053 - 07/20/12 09:58 PM Re: You could say I don't understand the church of Satan. [Re: Psychotherapeut]
Ezpzcpizzi Offline
Whinebag

Registered: 07/20/12
Posts: 11
I comprehend many complicated philosophies, I'm pretty sure you don't have to worry about me. I'm just not sure why everyone assumes all others and below them and cannot fathom what they can understand.

I have read all that is available on that website, and I would be willing to read the bible if it were not something I had to pay for.

I am also not trying to get people convincing me to join, that is obviously not why I would talk to people of other religions. As I said before, I am an atheist, and I plan to stay that way. I enjoy educating myself on other religions and how they help humans, generally creating the appeal of that religion. This specific religion is intriguing because I do not find a lot of people just looking for a way to cope with whatever in their life, but intelligent people. Doing what, I don't know. I can't read the bible, I do not have it. The appeal of this religion is intriguing though, how could intelligent humans even be interested in religion itself? What is it that enhances a persons life?

But I know I ask everything in vain because I get no answer, no matter what.

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#477054 - 07/20/12 09:58 PM Re: You could say I don't understand the church of Satan. [Re: Ezpzcpizzi]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10118
It all sounds so selfish.

It's right there in the book, we are a very selfish people.

First, why so defensive? I'm attempting to ask questions without making anything sound offensive.

But basically, yeah, I'm spot on that you're more or less saying you believe we do this to be antagonistic. You just didn't want to be too obvious about saying that. Frankly, it sounds kinda chickenshit.

I really hate this conversation because I feel everything I say is taken from an argumentative stance, and blown out of proportion.

I quote your first post:

"I have not done that much research on this topic"

"I ask of you to provide me with answers"

To put it in simple terms, you've basically said "I've come to this conversation utterly unprepared. There exists well over a thousand pages of 'canon' literature, most of it available at mass market paperback prices, which I have refused to read. I challenge the reason for this organization existing and would like your membership to write a detailed explanation summarizing that entire body of literature, as well as what knowledge they've gained from informal interaction and discussion. A simple explanation will not do, I will badger you until I get the full answer."

You use the analogy of asking an expert rather than taking the full course. Sounds fine - would you ask a psychologist to justify their entire field to you, for free, with zero prep work or understanding of the basics?

You've actually been treated pretty kindly. We get this question or some variant on it, like clockwork, a few times a month, and the stock answer is "Piss off, read the book, if you still have questions, then we're here." And really, so it is here. There's no way for us to convey this to someone who is admittedly as ignorant of Satanism as you are.

Oh - there is one other thing, that perhaps you didn't quite catch. Unlike evangelical religions, which generally WANT to explain their religion to others in hopes of gaining converts, compatriots, sympathizers, or what have you - we don't. At all. We seek no converts, we do not strive to be understood, we are what we are, and there is no profit in explaining ourselves to outsiders.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#477056 - 07/20/12 10:03 PM Re: You could say I don't understand the church of Satan. [Re: Janina]
Ezpzcpizzi Offline
Whinebag

Registered: 07/20/12
Posts: 11
I do not understand what getting it for free meant. I took it literally, as I do most things. I'm not sure what you mean by sharing who I am with you. That doesn't seem to fit in to the responses.

And like I have stated now, revising my earlier statement, I would be willing, knowing that it is not extremely long and seeing some things on this forum about how wonderful it is. I just can not order and read it immediately. Granted I have read other religious books, it does not seem very far fetched.

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#477059 - 07/20/12 10:11 PM Re: You could say I don't understand the church of Satan. [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Ezpzcpizzi Offline
Whinebag

Registered: 07/20/12
Posts: 11
Again, and again, and again, I can say that I don't have a problem with your religion, but by god if you don't just shut that out. Sounds like you want people to hate you.

All these silly analogies really aren't doing it for me. It is a pretty simple concept that is attempting to be conveyed. I am just attempting to maneuver around it. I don't feel like waiting for a book to be delivered then coming back and asking you about the topic. As of this point, seems pretty pointless to keep attempting to educate myself on this religion. I'm positive that it does not contain some wildly amazing life secrets that I need to know, and beyond that, this whole fiasco is not worth it.

By the way I did catch that. You didn't throw me off by attempting to be verbose.

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#477061 - 07/20/12 10:21 PM Re: You could say I don't understand the church of Satan. [Re: Ezpzcpizzi]
Janina Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1447
Loc: Center of my own Universe
Originally Posted By: Ezpzcpizzi
I do not understand what getting it for free meant. I took it literally, as I do most things. I'm not sure what you mean by sharing who I am with you. That doesn't seem to fit in to the responses.



Okay, I try to state it so simply that even you will understand it.

What reason do you give me to give all my knowledge to you without getting anything back?

Why do you assume that I, or anybody else, would be interested to convert you to Satanism and give away all the results of years of study when we do not even know who you are?



_________________________
Devilīs Advocate

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#477062 - 07/20/12 10:24 PM Re: You could say I don't understand the church of Satan. [Re: Ezpzcpizzi]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10118
I don't feel like waiting for a book to be delivered then coming back and asking you about the topic.

Then we don't feel like explaining anything to you. See how easy this is?

I'm positive that it does not contain some wildly amazing life secrets that I need to know

No it doesn't. No claim is made that it does.

Again, and again, and again, I can say that I don't have a problem with your religion, but by god if you don't just shut that out. Sounds like you want people to hate you.

Whether some guy who washes up here demanding answers without putting in any time hates us amounts to less than a cup of piss.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#477063 - 07/20/12 10:31 PM Re: You could say I don't understand the church of Satan. [Re: Ezpzcpizzi]
Mason_Rust Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 08/25/02
Posts: 1780
Loc: Michigan, USA
"Also I have no idea how that theory relates to you all starting trouble with people..."

We don't start trouble with people. That's definitely against our tennants. We will give it back to them ten fold, though, if they start with us.
_________________________
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
-Carl Sagan

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#477064 - 07/20/12 10:35 PM Re: You could say I don't understand the church of Satan. [Re: Psychotherapeut]
Ezpzcpizzi Offline
Whinebag

Registered: 07/20/12
Posts: 11
You know, you are correct. I have enjoyed your answers the very best. I even plan to take astronomy classes soon, with no use but my own benefit.

I am done talking to you all. I believe I will read the Satanic bible, I have found my way. If it is as interesting as the people on this forum say it is, I won't be disappointed. Maybe then I will have constructed, focused questions for you. Hopefully they will just be answered though. Thank you all for your patience.


Also, I am a twenty three year old woman, who enjoys her studies. My name is Mallory. I read a lot, and I don't enjoy going out too much. Since you all would like to know who I am. I'm very simple. I enjoy new conversation. Hard to get here, but still, I am sorry to bother so much. I don't like arguments.


Edited by Ezpzcpizzi (07/20/12 10:41 PM)

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#477066 - 07/20/12 10:45 PM Re: You could say I don't understand the church of Satan. [Re: Ezpzcpizzi]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12982
Loc: The Solid State
It's not about needing a religion to tell you how to act, think, or feel; it's about appreciating having a name for the way you've pretty much lived your life and approached the world all along.

There are many atheists who don't relate to or understand Satanism's values and ideas, and even some that object to them. So, it's an approach to the world that doesn't resonate with everyone.

Originally Posted By: Psychotherapeut
From what I can disseminate your question is basically "what is the point of Satanism?" This is hardly something that would be summarized in a few sentences and neatly wrapped with a bow on top. It is individually defined, and without reading and learning you can't expect this concept or philosophy to translate regardless.


Well put!

The questions that have been asked thus far are, at least for me, difficult to answer in any truly meaningful and helpful way, starting from square zero.

I think it'd be pretty much the same, if you asked a Buddhist what the point of Buddhism was, or asked a Christian for the point of Christianity. You need to have some background knowledge first, for the conversation to actually go somewhere and accomplish something.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#477067 - 07/20/12 10:52 PM Re: You could say I don't understand the church of Satan. [Re: Ezpzcpizzi]
LordofDarkness Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 756
Loc: Tennessee, U.S.
What's the big deal of just waiting and spend $10 for a paperback book that has all your answers?
_________________________

"Any group or collective, large or small, is only a number of individuals. A group can have no rights other than the rights of its individual members." - Ayn Rand

"Laws are there for a reason. You may not agree with them but you gotta obey them. Nobody wants to be in court." - Sonic the Hedgehog

"Satanism is not a white light religion; it is a religion of the flesh, the mundane, the carnal - all of which are ruled by Satan, the personification of the Left Hand Path." - Magus LaVey

"Test Everything, Believe Nothing." -

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#477075 - 07/21/12 12:37 AM Re: You could say I don't understand the church of Satan. [Re: Ezpzcpizzi]
de_Lioncourt Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 508
Quote:
This religion is looked down upon by so many, I would assume that explaining why it is important to the people participating would not be a problem.


That is kind of a snide attitude to take with people who you are asking to spoon feed you isn't it?

In other words, you are assuming that we are in dire need of acceptance.

We should be ever so grateful that you came along and are willing to give us a chance.

Sorry, it doesn't work that way here.

You came here.

No one asked you to.

You should be trying to gain acceptance of the people who participate on here, not the other way around.

Perhaps, you should also buy some books on etiquette.

Just my opinion.
_________________________
There is only the mind.

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#477077 - 07/21/12 01:21 AM Re: You could say I don't understand the church of Satan. [Re: Ezpzcpizzi]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10118
Thread is now a dead horse. Locked.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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