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#479092 - 08/20/12 01:23 AM Where do you stand?
Lust Offline


Registered: 11/02/05
Posts: 4214
It is a time stake for some of us when our religion/philosophy i.e. Satanism comes to question either by those who have parental, business or spousal dominance over us (should we allow them to know). For the most part I am eager to sit back and watch the sheep bounce off each other but how far do we let them get away with it? I mean, if it hurts me not then fuck it - right? Or, do we call them on their own bullshit? I say that I do and I do - Click.

People, or the herd rather think that Satanism encourages the most heinous acts possible. Have they done their research - no they have not (Yet I leave you to the presumption that you know the Satanic text). Yet they wield their King James and continue the same witch hunts seen in past but with a PC approach unlike before. Do you speak out or do you let it go?

I have seen the Satanic Panic and I do not see it coming again (FBI Report) HA!. The threat of political issues is far more controversial and the enemy now known as terrorism is much more an amorphous imaginary being than the actual but will you take the stand and charge the host for the enemy of nature? Most will not and that too is admirable. Or is it?

Far to long we have sat back and listened to the masses speak of what is Satanic and what is not. We know or at least those of us who do know what is and what is not Satanic. Now, do not get me wrong, I would not ask any one to put them self in harms way but when logic dictates why not make these ass-clowns understand just how stupid they are? Hell, even hit them with their own bullshit - Leviticus 8:15 Numbers 31:17-18 and even Matthew 18:7-9 and yes these are pointed out by Magister Rose in his infernal manifestation known as INFERNALIA, but as he points out; most Christians are either not aware or are just so stupid they never see these texts for what they are.

Do you stand up and become the adversary or do you just let it slide? Do you get a stiff one when you can make others understand or is it of little concern? When you can make a so called Christian understand that Exodus tells them that they are "not to suffer a Witch to live" yet their ten commands instructs murder is a sin, or, have you had that pleasure? Will you or will you let it slide? The Satanic Age is now and I have reaped it's rewards but not once have I ever turned my back on the destruction of Holier than Holy. What if, if I may ask, is your stance?

Just try not to be so serious. eek
_________________________
�Love is one of the most intense feelings felt by man; another is hate. Forcing yourself to feel indiscriminate love is very unnatural. If you try to love everyone you only lessen your feelings for those who deserve your love. Repressed hatred can lead to many physical and emotional aliments. By learning to release your hatred towards those who deserve it, you cleanse yourself of these malignant emotions and need not take your pent-up hatred out on your loved ones.�
Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible

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#479118 - 08/20/12 08:51 AM Re: Where do you stand? [Re: Lust]
Wolfe
Unregistered


I don't really have to deal with Xians, but I think they are unable to understand the world from a Satanic point of view. No point in discussing Satanism with these people. They can believe what they want as long as they don't try to force it on me. If they do get bossy, of course we should tear them down.

Of course, it would be a mistake to assume that all Xians are uneducated rednecks. Many of them are highly educated and successful in life, ready to discuss their beliefs, and I respect that. Some of them I've talked to, myself holding an athiestic point of view, seem to have very "well-prepared" answers, meaning that the answers seem a bit rehearsed. But if we can discuss religion and be open-minded to each others' stance and not try to change each other, then that's fine.

A good resource some of you may know is Evil Bible.com (http://www.evilbible.com/). A lot of good essays there, some serious, some funny (check out the "Retard of the Month" section). Also, check out the video "The Empty Cross: Why Jesus Never Existed." You can see it on Youtube. Finally, there's the classic "Marjoe," the documentary about the 4-year-old preacher who grew up to expose the tricks behind evangelism. Sadly, not much has changed since that movie was made.

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#479125 - 08/20/12 10:31 AM Re: Where do you stand? [Re: Lust]
Mason_Rust Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 08/25/02
Posts: 1780
Loc: Michigan, USA
Not to sound like a broken record, but the answer to this one starts off the same way as many answers with Satanic perspectives do: It depends upon the situation.

As with most things, it is a cost/benefit judgement you'd have to make for each situation.

I've had my brush with religious fanatics. By default, if you are a religious fanatic, you aren't a logical thinker and pointing out the logical flaws in their religious texts will get you nowhere. I highly doubt that pointing out to such a person that Leviticus instructs them not to shave or eat shellfish is going to cause them to pause (provided, of course, they do shave and/or eat shellfish). Someone of that "caliber" isn't going to set down their "God Hates Fags" sign and consider the logic you have brought to the table. "Wait a minute...this book says thou shalt not kill...but then says an eye for an eye...what have I been doing with my life!?" This is assuming, of course, that they are willing to listen to you in the first place, which is a huge assumption. It is highly a waste of time, I think, and I've got much better things to do with mine than enter such arenas that go nowhere. Another point to consider is that after such a person has "heard you out" and rebuttled, no matter how weak their defense is, they will be walking away that day seeing themselves as a champion. You were sent by the devil himself to question and tempt them, and they looked you in the eye and held to their faith. You haven't caused a fault in their infrastructure, but in their minds, only made them more righteous. Why give them such satisfaction? I think the best way to handle such a person is to be exactly what they hope you won't be: boring. They are looking for a response, and the bigger the better, whether it be in support of them or against. It's what they crave and why they do it.

Now, on the other hand, there are some people who are on the fence, whether they know it or not. If the person isn't fanatical about their beliefs, discussing it with them could indeed get them thinking. But rather than pointing out all the flaws of their religious doctrine, I think just asking them what they believe (try to keep their answer short and to the point, as some will just keep on going into the wee hours of the night) and then asking how they came to such beliefs, you might find that they've never thought about it before. Many know what they believe, but haven't always considered why. With your help, they might start to see that realistically, they believe what they do because they were brought up in a family that believed it. Most have never read their religious text, and thus, never read it and only then said, "Yep, that sounds right to me!" If you can get THEM to stumble upon this on their own, just by asking them questions, you have already set them on the path to unravelling the rest of it.

I've shown this to a few past friends of mine before. In just polite conversation, they started to see that they haven't even read their religious text (and that I actually knew it better than they did) and the root of their belief wasn't even their choice. They believed it because for years growing up, they were told to. They realized that as they had never read their text, they had never considered what it had to say and only then decide if they believed it or not. (It can be interesting with the right person to also show them the logic of how geographically dependent their beliefs are at this point. That if they had been born in India to a Hindu family, their belief system would likely be Hindu for the same reasons it is Christian here in the U.S., or if born in Iran, it would be Islam, etc.)

When and if you can get someone to see such things, I think only then are they ready to take a closer look at what their religious text actually says. That's when you can point out the contradictions, the flaws in logic, the lack of compassion that exists in what they think is a peaceful religion. They will be much more likely to hear what you have to say and consider it with fresh eyes.

The atheist and magician Penn Jillette has said (and I'm sure others before him have said it as well) the quickest way for someone (Christian) to become an atheist is to read the Bible. There's a lot of truth to that, but I think the person has to be ready to read it from the right perspective, that being, "Do I really believe this stuff or not?"

So, rather than take a stance, I opt for one of the two courses of action described above. If it's a waste of my time with a fanatic, I choose to be the silent, more evolved. Even IF I could get such a person to see the error of his/her ways, why do they deserve such a gift from me in the first place. I'm happier to let them rot their life away with their insane choices. If the person in question, though, is someone who has earned some care and consideration from me, I might engage them to think about why they believe what they do, and if they even know fully what it is they claim to believe. Have they read their Bible, or just taken other peoples' word for what it has to say?

To wrap it up for those curious, as mentioned, I have gone that second route with three different past friends. Of the three, two of them did some soul searching, but not very much of it, and still walked away feeling that the parts of the Bible that they did know and agree with were the important parts, and they are still Christians today. (I don't talk to them much nowadays, but for other reasons.) The third thought about it for a good year, and was proud to call me up one day and report to me that he was an atheist. He's still quite the devout, practicing atheist today. We keep in touch and are still good friends.


Edited by Mason_Rust (08/20/12 01:32 PM)
_________________________
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
-Carl Sagan

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#479131 - 08/20/12 11:54 AM Re: Time to Start Kicking Ass [Re: Lust]
de_Lioncourt Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 557
Back when I used to get out more when I would discuss the topic, I would only let the bullshit go so far.

I have always and will always defend Satanism against any kind of slander. I am also happy to clear up misconceptions when one has an opened mind.

That said, I am pretty much a homebody these days unless I am working or otherwise have to keep appointments ( I went out to a grocery store the other day...first time in months! devilchili )

The company that I keep are either family or long time friends who all know what I am. So I do not have as much opportunity to defend Satanism as I did say fifteen years ago.

Strangely enough, my defense of Satanism at that time, has led me to a very open comfortable area in my life with those who I choose to associate with.

I would add though, that Dr. Lavey left an excellent blueprint which I always followed in The Devil's Notebook: Time to Start Kicking Ass (hence the title of my post on this subject).

There are also some wonderful strategies in Magistra Barton's The Church of Satan in the Satanism in Theory and Practice section. I think it is very good that this book is being re released and would recommend it to all who have not read it.



Edited by de_Lioncourt (08/20/12 12:03 PM)
Edit Reason: *I almost forgot....magnificent interview Warlock Tier Instinct :)

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#479137 - 08/20/12 02:03 PM Re: Where do you stand? [Re: Lust]
Zsche Offline



Registered: 04/17/09
Posts: 158
Loc: Where the 5.56 casings fall...
As some of my past posts in the forum have shown I am quick to stand up and call BULLSHIT! to the herd, especially where my kids are concerned. The herd can revel in their insanity all they want to within the confines of their own homes and churches, but the moment they attempt to proselytize to me or my kids they are met with a swift and stern rebuttal. Typically it only takes one time and they learn this is not somewhere they want to go with me.

I am not one to bite my tongue, and I am certainly not known to be meek I am proud to be a Satanist. While this has made many individuals very standoffish, others are intrigued. They see that I am an active, productive member of society who is successful and actively involved in my kids lives. They see how their kids envy mine academically, athletically, and in their home life. The very few individuals and parents I choose to associate with on a regular basis know and respect me, so it really is not an issue in my day to day life.

Still in the area of the world where I live, it is difficult to get away from the constant barrage of religious assumptions and bullshit. Blatant stupidity in the form of bulk e-mailed prayer requests for husbands who have eaten themselves into morbid obesity and are now in the critical care unit on a respirator Let me get this straight you want me to pray to a deity that allowed your husband to become unhealthy from his own compulsion and free will to somehow magically make him better? Your prayers over the past two decades for him have seemed to have little effect, so why would they work now?

With this level of ignorance I wonder do these people pray for their computers when they have malware?
_________________________
Originally Posted By: Phineas
My suggestion to you, besides obtaining a copy of The Satanic Bible and reading it, is to immerse yourself in the information contained at the Church of Satan website.

Originally Posted By: Hagen von Tronje
You can't guzzle whiskey and pinch pretty ladies' asses when you're dead.

Originally Posted By: Roho_the_Rooster
Love life. Live life. Don't fuck with people unnecessarily. Don"t let other people fuck with you. Simple guidelines that that will help you to make informed, intelligent and Satanic decisions.

Originally Posted By: Callier
Constructive criticism is one thing but people that just point blank tell others what they should be doing with their lives without any kind of permission can eat a bag of hairy balls.

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#479142 - 08/20/12 04:53 PM Re: Where do you stand? [Re: Lust]
Bet'phage Offline


Registered: 11/18/11
Posts: 194
Loc: Ohio
In my role as a religion teacher, I have approached this in different ways that correspond to my own personal stages of psychological development.

There was a time when I delighted to point out to people in my class, in church, some of these verses you've alluded to - to specifically point out their unreasonable nature...things I myself could not "swallow."

More often than not, those Christians sitting in my class held the very same opinions: "Yeah, how could God command thus-and-so?!" At least some of them were willing to consider the illogical nature of such commands, but not to the point where they disowned their "faith." The social pressures they allow to influence them are just too strong.

However, lately I've adopted the stance that the world's spiritual religions have been created to make and keep slaves, and, in general, to keep those slaves at bay - heads down, mouths shut, eyes closed, hands busy with menial crap.

So, my role, as I see it now, is to teach them their own faith, and let them be the slaves they are willing to be. Hell, I might even take a paycheck for doing it.

As far as those who take a militant view toward Satanism, that I've personally come in contact with, I correct their mistaken views about the philosophy, all in the interest (so I tell them) of them not setting up straw-men to attack; after all, I tell them, they ought to at least know the truth about who they're so against.

I don't like misrepresentation concerning any philosophy/religion. So I like to correct them if I can. And if they still want to be militant against it, at least they'll know what the hell they're talking about.


Edited by Bet'phage (08/20/12 09:20 PM)
_________________________
"Strength through Joy!"

http://www.vampiretemple.com/whatis.html

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#479143 - 08/20/12 05:41 PM Re: Where do you stand? [Re: Lust]
FetishFatale Offline


Registered: 08/20/12
Posts: 8
Loc: East Texas
I've had plenty of verbal sparring with fanatics over the years. Actually, i'm in a pretty rough situation with that as my sister is married to a youth pastor and I have to hear constantly about how i'm a "sinner" for my views on many things. Right now, she's on my ass about my actively supporting marriage equality. I live in a state that is the epitome of bible belt values. It turns my stomach sometimes to witness the blatant stupidity of the sheep blindly following the prescribed religious crap down here. I fear for my son and the troubles he is going to face as the open minded individual my husband and I are trying to raise him to be.

I recently watched an episode of 20/20 where the topic was exploring the teaching of sex education in different places. I was really surprised when the next town over in our small town corner of the state was one of the ones featured. The other was a town up in Maryland. Up there, they are teaching a comprehensive sex education class. This included pregnancy and disease prevention, the correct usage of condoms, etc. Guess what they're teaching down here? ABSTINENCE education, including the handing out of "purity" rings and pledges stating that one will "wait until married" to honor God. Oh, and by the way TEXAS has the third highest teen pregnancy rate in the nation. Gee, I wonder why. It's crap like this that makes me furious.

The mind numbing stupidity and blindness to reason and logic makes me want to emulate the professor on Futurama. "I don't want to live on this planet anymore...."


Edited by FetishFatale (08/20/12 05:42 PM)

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#479144 - 08/20/12 05:50 PM Re: Where do you stand? [Re: FetishFatale]
Lust Offline


Registered: 11/02/05
Posts: 4214
Be comfortable, there are a few Magister's that reside in the great state of Texas. Also, Sir King Diamond resides there. Your frustration is understood but what do you do about it? It sounds to me like your doing a great thing by raising your child with an open mind. I have resided in Houston, Orange, Ft. Worth, and Port Arthur TX so I understand how hard it can be to speak out there but by living a vital life and letting the sheep witness that in it self is the most Satanic role one can undertake.

My hat is off to you. Keep it up, my friend.

HS!
coopdevil
_________________________
�Love is one of the most intense feelings felt by man; another is hate. Forcing yourself to feel indiscriminate love is very unnatural. If you try to love everyone you only lessen your feelings for those who deserve your love. Repressed hatred can lead to many physical and emotional aliments. By learning to release your hatred towards those who deserve it, you cleanse yourself of these malignant emotions and need not take your pent-up hatred out on your loved ones.�
Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible

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#479145 - 08/20/12 06:02 PM Re: Time to Start Kicking Ass [Re: de_Lioncourt]
Lust Offline


Registered: 11/02/05
Posts: 4214
Many thanks, my friend.

Seclusion is an admirable trait and is one that I take often but there are just to many times to speak out when out and about. The disease of religion is a soft spoken word on the lips of many who find them self a fundamentalist. Many have spoken true words here but those who are tolerant must understand that those who are not are those who shoot up movie theaters or worse! The dead horse known as Christianity must be allowed to die but many want to keep on beating it. Why? Better yet, why not expose the horror show for what it is?

It is about time for the Christian panic as far as I am concerned. The old rugged cross is a far more threat than professionals making music for stupid teens. I say the games begin but I have already ushered in the V.A.S.C.A.!
_________________________
�Love is one of the most intense feelings felt by man; another is hate. Forcing yourself to feel indiscriminate love is very unnatural. If you try to love everyone you only lessen your feelings for those who deserve your love. Repressed hatred can lead to many physical and emotional aliments. By learning to release your hatred towards those who deserve it, you cleanse yourself of these malignant emotions and need not take your pent-up hatred out on your loved ones.�
Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible

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#479146 - 08/20/12 06:05 PM Re: Where do you stand? [Re: Mason_Rust]
Lust Offline


Registered: 11/02/05
Posts: 4214
I could quote you many times, my friend but allow me simply to say this.

WISE WORDS!

HS!
coopdevil
_________________________
�Love is one of the most intense feelings felt by man; another is hate. Forcing yourself to feel indiscriminate love is very unnatural. If you try to love everyone you only lessen your feelings for those who deserve your love. Repressed hatred can lead to many physical and emotional aliments. By learning to release your hatred towards those who deserve it, you cleanse yourself of these malignant emotions and need not take your pent-up hatred out on your loved ones.�
Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible

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#479149 - 08/20/12 07:13 PM Re: Where do you stand? [Re: Lust]
Electric Wizard Offline


Registered: 08/16/12
Posts: 14
I think its the ultimate satanic principle of self preservation. If we do not act against our foes, and challenge their philosophy, we will lose our rights moreso over time.

This generation is destroyed by things such as texting, facebook, etc. Nobody cares to act for themselves anymore, and in the long run it feeds the greater corporate demon that seeks to nullify our ability to think and act independently of the herd. There is nothing satanic about the materialism of being a halfassed individual.

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#479150 - 08/20/12 07:31 PM Re: Where do you stand? [Re: Electric Wizard]
Lust Offline


Registered: 11/02/05
Posts: 4214
Originally Posted By: Electric Wizard
There is nothing satanic about the materialism of being a halfassed individual.


I disagree but understand your enthusiasm, MR. Wizard.
_________________________
�Love is one of the most intense feelings felt by man; another is hate. Forcing yourself to feel indiscriminate love is very unnatural. If you try to love everyone you only lessen your feelings for those who deserve your love. Repressed hatred can lead to many physical and emotional aliments. By learning to release your hatred towards those who deserve it, you cleanse yourself of these malignant emotions and need not take your pent-up hatred out on your loved ones.�
Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible

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#479163 - 08/20/12 10:29 PM Re: Where do you stand? [Re: Zsche]
Lust Offline


Registered: 11/02/05
Posts: 4214
I have enjoyed your response and I commend you as well.

I doubt that they would pray for their computers but I would bet without it that they would prey on others.

HS!
coopdevil
_________________________
�Love is one of the most intense feelings felt by man; another is hate. Forcing yourself to feel indiscriminate love is very unnatural. If you try to love everyone you only lessen your feelings for those who deserve your love. Repressed hatred can lead to many physical and emotional aliments. By learning to release your hatred towards those who deserve it, you cleanse yourself of these malignant emotions and need not take your pent-up hatred out on your loved ones.�
Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible

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#479164 - 08/20/12 10:34 PM Re: Where do you stand? [Re: ]
Lust Offline


Registered: 11/02/05
Posts: 4214
I would go as far to say that anyone who can subscribe to make believe things is in fact insane. Lock up most of the worlds population is not in fact a reality so understand just who is running the asylum. Educated Christians simply sounds absurd to me.

Remember that MR. Hitler was in fact a Christian. wink
_________________________
�Love is one of the most intense feelings felt by man; another is hate. Forcing yourself to feel indiscriminate love is very unnatural. If you try to love everyone you only lessen your feelings for those who deserve your love. Repressed hatred can lead to many physical and emotional aliments. By learning to release your hatred towards those who deserve it, you cleanse yourself of these malignant emotions and need not take your pent-up hatred out on your loved ones.�
Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible

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#479167 - 08/20/12 10:52 PM Re: Where do you stand? [Re: Bet'phage]
Lust Offline


Registered: 11/02/05
Posts: 4214
Originally Posted By: Bet'phage
However, lately I've adopted the stance that the world's spiritual religions have been created to make and keep slaves, and, in general, to keep those slaves at bay - heads down, mouths shut, eyes closed, hands busy with menial crap.


A brilliant example of the political treatise by, Niccol Machiavelli known as The Prince. Keep up the good work. cool

HS!
coopdevil
_________________________
�Love is one of the most intense feelings felt by man; another is hate. Forcing yourself to feel indiscriminate love is very unnatural. If you try to love everyone you only lessen your feelings for those who deserve your love. Repressed hatred can lead to many physical and emotional aliments. By learning to release your hatred towards those who deserve it, you cleanse yourself of these malignant emotions and need not take your pent-up hatred out on your loved ones.�
Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible

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