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#479253 - 08/21/12 06:32 PM What's the difference between Satanists and everyone else?
ConquerOrPerish Offline


Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 228
Loc: DC Metro Area
What do you think the difference is between Satanists and everyone else?

Everyone else hates each other, especially those who aren't in communities. Everyone else believes or at least acts like they're their own god. Everyone else is a loner. Everyone else strives for perfection.

To me the reason why Satanism is important and new is:

-We don't believe in the golden rule.

-We don't believe in forgiveness. Another blatant difference.

-We're selfish. We're not people pleasers.

-We're misanthropes for the most part but misanthropes don't have lives and we do.

Another one for me as a Satanist is that I don't believe in being assertive. Assertiveness is the worst of both worlds. You're responding so you care what the person thinks and you're being mature which shit disturbers love. I choose the silent treatment because it's worse than being aggressive according to psychology. Besides there is always someone more aggressive than you and it turns into a never ending war. But I can be as silent as a mouse. And if it's not war like that's fine, that's peace.

There are many other differences to me like no race obsession, no body image issues, new fangled feminism, etc.
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"Making a difference makes sense only if you are convinced that you have mastered the subject at hand to the point where any difference you might make would be for the better." -Thomas Sowell


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#479258 - 08/21/12 07:00 PM Re: What's the difference between Satanists and everyone else? [Re: ConquerOrPerish]
Zaftig Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 3406
You are making far too many broad generalizations.

I believe in the golden rule; I do unto others as they do unto me.

I also believe in forgiveness; how else could I ever think to have even the most remote bit of intimacy with someone if I cannot forgive them? I know where my line is, I will forgive for infractions within it, but not for things without. Surely, you understand the difference between a mature acceptance of mistakes and serious transgressions?

So you brood about giving the silent treatment instead of facing something head on and possibly actually resolving the issue? Being assertive gets you things in life. There is a huge difference between being assertive and aggressive, and you are conflating the two.

I am selfish, but an examination of my life will find people extremely pleased with me; I work hard, I keep commitments, I am responsible and always give it my best shot.

Your version of Satanism appears like a petulant child stomping their foot because they didn't get what they want. I do not subscribe to your views on this.


Edited by Zaftig (08/21/12 07:19 PM)

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#479260 - 08/21/12 07:15 PM Re: What's the difference between Satanists and everyone else? [Re: ConquerOrPerish]
StabAvery Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 717
Loc: michigan
I think you have a lot of reading to do. Satanism requires study not worship. You use the term "we" quite a bit. I am a satanist and I certainly do not fit into any of your "we" or we're" comments. First of all, don't speak for me, Drop the "we're". Next, you look as though you are trying to fit into something, Please don't huddle between the wolves...I am incredibly assertive. I don't think we align much at all.
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#479264 - 08/21/12 07:58 PM Re: What's the difference between Satanists and everyone else? [Re: ConquerOrPerish]
Bet'phage Offline


Registered: 11/18/11
Posts: 194
Loc: Ohio
As far as describing Satanists, The Nine Satanic Statements (TSB, 25) are probably as close as you'll get. But that doesn't mean other people don't practice some or all of these laws.

And life is always more complex than an "us-them" dichotomy.
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"Strength through Joy!"

http://www.vampiretemple.com/whatis.html

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#479268 - 08/21/12 10:07 PM Re: What's the difference between Satanists and everyone else? [Re: ConquerOrPerish]
Nufan Offline


Registered: 04/16/11
Posts: 51
Originally Posted By: ConquerOrPerish

To me the reason why Satanism is important and new is:

-We don't believe in the golden rule.

-We don't believe in forgiveness. Another blatant difference.

-We're selfish. We're not people pleasers.

-We're misanthropes for the most part but misanthropes don't have lives and we do.

Another one for me as a Satanist is that I don't believe in being assertive. Assertiveness is the worst of both worlds. You're responding so you care what the person thinks and you're being mature which shit disturbers love. I choose the silent treatment because it's worse than being aggressive according to psychology. Besides there is always someone more aggressive than you and it turns into a never ending war. But I can be as silent as a mouse. And if it's not war like that's fine, that's peace.

There are many other differences to me like no race obsession, no body image issues, new fangled feminism, etc.


I don't think Satanism is new, it is just better defined. The Christian Golden Rule is not smart, because that is not the way the world works, which is why someone would say 'Do unto others, as they do unto you'. In other words people get what they deserve, not some ideal notion of being good to people who are not good to you.

Forgiveness, I think is given to those who deserve it, but not just given. Which kind of follows that idea in the prior paragraph. Everyone is selfish, I think a Satanist is more open to embracing that.

As far as misanthrope, that depends, I think as far as for me, I don't hate all mankind. I can't speak for everyone else, but I think I would rather see a society prosper than fail. I am not sure I hate mankind. I just love myself.

Being assertive is not something that is bad, it is necessary at times, and often portrays strength to other people. People are scared of stronger people, and attracted to them. Being assertive can take many forms though. Verbally, sexually, physically, which can lead to higher charisma. Charisma not because you are trying to be someone other people like or fear, but because being beautiful, or scary or whatever image you are portraying gives you power over your surroundings.

For body image, I personally think there is something to be said for this. You must see yourself as basically great, but becoming the best you can is more ideal. Not saying everyone must be super model chic, but you must be able to be able to use your outer image to influence others. You must try and be healthy, if you want to live longer, but if you are fine with yourself, it's up to you.

I am not sure if everything I am saying is coming out right. I hope you can see some of the differences. You should probably read some more, because I think you are getting some things confused. Not trying to say I am an expert, but some things are stated to me quite clearly, that I think you have missed.

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#479269 - 08/21/12 10:17 PM Re: What's the difference between Satanists and everyone else? [Re: ConquerOrPerish]
Psychotherapeut Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 05/13/06
Posts: 456
I concur with the previous replies of Zaftig and Avery. Your view of what Satanism is or what a Satanist should "believe" is inaccurate.

I too believe in "the golden rule;" I will treat another as I would like to be treated until I am transgressed against at which point I will retaliate with prejudice. Afterwards, I won't waste my niceties on those who do not deserve them.

I may choose to forgive someone who is close to me for hurting me, but I won't forget. I'm not giving it up to "god," I'm exercising will and choosing to take the power away from it until it rears itself again. I am not a forgiving person, but that does not mean I never do it or am incapable.

I am selfish in principle, but that does not mean I have no concern for others or their well being.

Your assessment of what assertiveness means is pretty laughable and demonstrates a limited understanding of interpersonal relations and psychology. You are kidding yourself if you make the assumption that your giving the "silent treatment" is somehow "worse" or more bothersome to others than aggression. Being silent does not give off the air of being a "secret serial killer," or a "bad ass," but rather that of a victim.
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#479272 - 08/21/12 10:50 PM Re: What's the difference between Satanists and everyone else? [Re: ConquerOrPerish]
Stilts Offline


Registered: 08/05/12
Posts: 59
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: ConquerOrPerish
What do you think the difference is between Satanists and everyone else?

Everyone else hates each other, especially those who aren't in communities. Everyone else believes or at least acts like they're their own god. Everyone else is a loner. Everyone else strives for perfection.

To me the reason why Satanism is important and new is:

-We don't believe in the golden rule.

-We don't believe in forgiveness. Another blatant difference.

-We're selfish. We're not people pleasers.

-We're misanthropes for the most part but misanthropes don't have lives and we do.

Another one for me as a Satanist is that I don't believe in being assertive. Assertiveness is the worst of both worlds. You're responding so you care what the person thinks and you're being mature which shit disturbers love. I choose the silent treatment because it's worse than being aggressive according to psychology. Besides there is always someone more aggressive than you and it turns into a never ending war. But I can be as silent as a mouse. And if it's not war like that's fine, that's peace.

There are many other differences to me like no race obsession, no body image issues, new fangled feminism, etc.




I can't speak for everyone, but personally I am quite different from these bullet points. I also think that when it comes to assertiveness, it's very situational - at least for me it is.

If I feel I need to step up and address whatever issue is hovering, I will absolutely make it a point to do so. If, on the other hand, I feel the situation would be better diffused, I certainly can remain silent. It isn't one path or another, but rather choosing which of my options suites me (and the ordeal) best.

In the area if misanthropy, I am quite the opposite! I don't have a hatred toward people at all. I, in fact, find anthropology to be fascinating! I enjoy learning the lives and cultures of others. I absolutely disagree with the way people may live/think, but I don't hate them for it. My hatred in people is also situational and individualized - it all depends on the crime, per se.

Although I am selfish, and materialistic... and we'll add vain and self-sufficient for argument's sake... I do enjoy pleasing others, if they are deserving of my time and effort. I do a lot of work with a children's charity, and it gives ME great pleasure to improve the lives (even if it only means providing a friendly face) of them. I also take pride in doing a whole lot to give those in my close circle something to smile over. So, again, situational.

I express forgiveness all the time!! I think that's human nature. Alas, another thing that depends on the circumstances. I won't get into specific examples, but there are some unworthy of my forgiveness - and they shall never receive it. Others, I'll consider their error as "water under the bridge", so to speak.

And finally, the golden rule. I disbelieve in the traditional golden rule, but very much live by (and advise) the golden rule presented by Dr. LaVey! With the old spin on it, I tell people "treat others exactly as they treat you!"


So, ending this: I think that in many ways I am like everyone else, but in many ways I am very different from the rest of society. I am quite alright with that! Christians are as Christians, Muslims as Muslims, Jewish as Jewish, ect. Sometimes people blend into multiple categories (Satanists and many Atheists imo), and some people only fit into their own section. I consider myself a Satanist, but that doesn't mean that I am the same as every other Satanist who has ever walked this earth. Things that are one way to me, may be different to another. I may choose to forgive something that another could never overlook. We live by the same philosophy, but we're different people with different tastes.

I don't believe I can lay down any more of an answer to your specific question than as I did. Hopefully my response gives some insight into the life of a fellow, and different from yourself, Satanist.

I am curious, based on your assertive/aggressive statements, do you consider yourself to be "passive" or do you have another term ? smile
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Farvl,
Megan



"If I had a dime for every time a homeless man asked me for change... I'd still say 'no'."
- Bo Burnham

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#479274 - 08/21/12 11:01 PM Re: What's the difference between Satanists and everyone else? [Re: ConquerOrPerish]
Insurgent Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/08/01
Posts: 2315
Quote:
We don't believe in the golden rule.


I do, but then again I expect consequence for my indiscretions.
So this doesn't mean I love my enemies. I expect that if I'm an asshole that I'm going to be treated like one.

Quote:
We don't believe in forgiveness. Another blatant difference.


Forgiveness is a pretty vital human capability.

Quote:
We're selfish. We're not people pleasers.


You can't speak on behalf of my lady friends.

Quote:
We're misanthropes for the most part but misanthropes don't have lives and we do.


I speculate that your ideal when it comes to misanthropy is probably very different from mine.

Quote:
no race obsession




Edited by Insurgent (08/21/12 11:04 PM)
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My site: www.josiegallows.com

"My dear Insurgent you're an extremist, intolerant and you have prejudices. That's all."

"I am a fucking Satanist and desire in all of my being to be the Queen of the World if at all possible...."

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#479281 - 08/21/12 11:35 PM Re: What's the difference between Satanists and everyone else? [Re: ConquerOrPerish]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Originally Posted By: ConquerOrPerish
What do you think the difference is between Satanists and everyone else?

Everyone else hates each other, especially those who aren't in communities. Everyone else believes or at least acts like they're their own god. Everyone else is a loner. Everyone else strives for perfection.


I don't think that's necessarily true.

Yes, humans do tend to be tribalistic, to varying degrees.
But, this includes Satanists, too.

Even when people are secretly or subconsciously autodeistic, very few are actually willing to cop to it, and most are still entirely too willing to reflexively and unthinkingly submit to Something Larger Than Themselves.

And, most people are certainly not loners. Most people are extroverts. Introverts are the exception, not the rule, and loners, even more so.

And, like others here, I do practice the Golden Rule--or rather, a variation on it. (Hell, life sometimes demands that I play nice with people I can't even stand!)

I don't easily forget sleights, but I do often forgive them, because I choose to put my most important and most cherished relationships before any desire I might have to "keep score."

Many Satanists are indeed misanthropes, but not all--and, just because we tend to be misanthropic, for that matter, doesn't mean we universally loathe all people, of course.

Well, and I completely disagree with you on the matter of Assertiveness. True assertiveness is often difficult to cultivate, but it's consistently the best and most powerful way of navigating relationships, in my experience. Aggression is reactive, often puerile in spirit, and often gets one in trouble. Being passive means you get run over a lot. Passive-aggression is the M.O. of bitchy teen girls who can't work up the courage to confront each other.

Naturally, there are times when it makes sense to be aggressive, passive, and passive-aggressive, but as global styles, they don't usually work very well for very long.

Really, I think the key ingredient of Satanism is brutal self-honesty, which includes honest acceptance of and focus on one's true values and priorities.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#479343 - 08/22/12 01:54 PM Re: What's the difference between Satanists and everyone else? [Re: ConquerOrPerish]
Mason_Rust Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 08/25/02
Posts: 1780
Loc: Michigan, USA
StabAvery and Zaftig have already pointed out the major flaws of your reasoning, so I'll only bring up some of the others either not addressed, or that some added perspective might be helpful.

"We don't believe in forgiveness. Another blatant difference."

I think if someone knows a Satanist and observes them for a while, it would be blatant that we are very much willing to forgive. The difference between us and "white lighters" of the herd is that our forgiveness is only given if it has been earned by whomever did us wrong. What isn't part of our behavior is unconditional forgiveness. This stems from our distaste for unconditional love. We live a life of love given to the deserving and not wasted on ingrates. This is so clearly laid out in The Satanic Bible's portion on Love and Hate that I'm without clue as to why you would say we don't forgive.

"We're selfish. We're not people pleasers."

Aren't you trying to show why we're different??? If anything, this might be one characteristic that we share with everyone else, as the majority of people out there are selfish too. Where a Satanist would differ, though, is that we aren't delusional about our selfishness. We recognize that we are on this earth to please ourselves, avoid misery, and create for ourselves the most enjoyable life within our power. For that reason, though, we do please people, but again, only those who deserve it, and only those who in pleasing will enhance our own lives. It is often referred to as "rational hedonism". The herd, though, in their selfish ways, often won't fess up to being selfish. The average person who donates to this or that charity doesn't recognize that they are doing it primarily so that they can feel good about themselves and wear the Good Guy Badge. If we donate to charity, it is because we truly wish for that cause to have support.

"We're misanthropes for the most part but misanthropes don't have lives and we do."

Umm...so wouldn't that mean we aren't misanthropes and don't fit that definition?

You also mentioned, Everyone else believes or at least acts like they're their own god."

No, they absolutely do not. And I think this also might be one of the most important ingredients to answer your original question of how Satanists differ from the rest. You aren't going to find just one characteristic that Satanists have that the rest do not that makes us Satanists. As already pointed out to you, the closest you'll come is that we adhere to the Nine Satanic Statements. But, I think the most striking difference is right here. We recognize that we are our own gods. From this stems much of the rest of Satanic philosophy, including love to only the deserving, rational indulgence, and vengence for those who've wronged us, etc.

The herd, though they often act selfish, do not act as their own gods.

1) The majority of people in the world would state that they are believers in a major world religion. This is mainly due to being born into a family already practicing one. Many who aren't born into one seek one out. Both of these facts are due to humans naturally seeking a higher power, and therefore, rules and laws to run their lives by. (I think that if the concept of a higher power didn't offer rules and codes, honestly, most of the herd wouldn't seek one out in the first place!) The crave someone else, even an imaginary concept, to tell them what to do. Satanists do not.

2) The majority of the herd act in masochistic ways. In their world religions, they deny themselves many indulgences (sex, food, wealth, etc.). Much of the herd also doesn't take care of themselves health wise. When they do indulge (and later feel guilt for doing so, which as masochists, they secretely love) they over indulge, often to the point of risking health, or at least demoting it. This is NOT how a god treats him/herself. A god takes care of him/herself out of pride, and does not irrationally deny that which would please him/her.
_________________________
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
-Carl Sagan

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#479345 - 08/22/12 02:08 PM Metallic Rules [Re: Psychotherapeut]
Mason_Rust Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 08/25/02
Posts: 1780
Loc: Michigan, USA
Greetings Psychotherapeut!

Your mention of a modified Golden Rule reminded me of a Carl Sagan essay I read, and thought it would be worth sharing. As others replying to this topic have also mentioned that they do adhere to a Golden Rule version or another, I thought some of these other rules would be worth a look, especially if people here hadn't heard about them before.

In Carl Sagan's book Billions & Billions, which is a compilation of essays and articles that were previously published elsewhere (along with some other, previously unpublished ones), he has the essay, "The Rules Of The Game". He summarizes various cultures and their moral codes, and brings to light some of the other options humans have opted for.

The following are his words, not mine, though certainly in the case of some of the rules, he's not the first to state them:

1. The Golden Rule - Do unto others as you would have done unto you.

2. The Silver Rule - Do not do unto others as you would not have them do unto you.

3. The Brass or Brazen Rule - Do unto others as they have done unto you. (More on this one later!)

4. The Iron Rule - Do unto others as you like, before they do it unto you.

5. The Tin Rule - Suck up to those above you, and abuse those below you. (He points out that this is really the Golden Rule for superiors and the Iron Rule for inferiors, but since there is no known alloy for iron and gold, he calls it the Tin Rule due to it's flexability, like the metal tin.)

I think that once hearing the rules, it's obvious that nobody in real life follows the Golden rule. Many follow the Silver Rule in everyday life, but throughout their lives, often make exceptions. And, we know of plenty of people who follow the iron rule. They are the ones often rotting away in cells.

What's of most interest to me is the Brass Rule. It seems very close to what Satanists live by (again, [b]very close[b], not exactly). In polite society, we are first ladies and gentlemen, but once we have some data on how that person has treated us, we know better how we care to deal with them.

Not only did this rule, as Sagan put it, seem to shout "Satanism" to me when I first read his essay, within the essay itself, he identifies this rule as lex talionis.

Metallic food for thought, I think!
_________________________
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
-Carl Sagan

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#479347 - 08/22/12 02:28 PM Re: Metallic Rules [Re: Mason_Rust]
Quaark Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 8843
Then there's the Unknown Alloy Rule.

"Do what is in your best interest (with an intelligent balance between immediate and long term), and let others scratch their heads in confusion trying to determine what set of rules you're following."

wink
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Taa hwo aaji teego.

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#479350 - 08/22/12 03:18 PM Re: Metallic Rules [Re: Quaark]
Mason_Rust Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 08/25/02
Posts: 1780
Loc: Michigan, USA
That must be adamantium! cool
_________________________
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
-Carl Sagan

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#479356 - 08/22/12 04:06 PM Re: What's the difference between Satanists and everyone else? [Re: ConquerOrPerish]
TheAbysmal Offline


Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 1024
I tend to subscribe to the views some others have expressed in reply, too. I think its a tricky thing to try to pigeonhole Satanism into a set of hard, fast rules. Granted, there are some, but those stem from the ideal of "do what works", I think.

In other words, to take your views on Golden Rule and run with it, for example, I use it. I generally try to treat others as I would like to be treated in return, but not without exception. If it stops working as a general rule with a certain person or group, then as a I general rule, I try to switch up my strategy. smile

And, really, that's how I choose to view anything, through a lens of utility. As best I can, anyway. Sometimes, hind sight being 20/20, I realize that I screwed up majorly and see where I could have done better. Then, I just try not to dwell on it too much, learn from it if there's a lesson that I find obvious, and drive on.

I do not find misanthropy very useful at all. Rather, I find it rather unimaginative, stifling, and even stunting. Every great person that I've ever met came out of "all of humanity", myself included. So, I liken misanthropy as a kind of blindness to any true agenda I might have in dealing with others. Namely, there are certainly qualities I might despise or appreciate among others, and that even depends on the context or situation. If I find that I tend to despise someone more often than appreciate them, then I try to sever ties with that person as best I can, if I can. Then, I find myself better armed to deal with the rest of "humanity", better able to detect those among it with whom I'd prefer dealings or not.
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#479361 - 08/22/12 04:33 PM Re: What's the difference between Satanists and everyone else? [Re: ConquerOrPerish]
Lust Offline


Registered: 11/02/05
Posts: 4214
Originally Posted By: ConquerOrPerish
What do you think the difference is between Satanists and everyone else?


The herd continues to march in circles while the Satanist rises above. Figure it out or not.
_________________________
�Love is one of the most intense feelings felt by man; another is hate. Forcing yourself to feel indiscriminate love is very unnatural. If you try to love everyone you only lessen your feelings for those who deserve your love. Repressed hatred can lead to many physical and emotional aliments. By learning to release your hatred towards those who deserve it, you cleanse yourself of these malignant emotions and need not take your pent-up hatred out on your loved ones.�
Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible

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