I've been perusing some of the discussions of lesser magic on the forum here, and I think that there's a fairly newish source of valid information that I haven't seen referred to yet.

The Mystery Method, a seduction system which exploits social science to create attraction and intrigue among members of the female gender, could almost be considered a "Satanic Witch" directly organized toward men. (Created by Erik Von Markovic, AKA Mystery)

There is a WEALTH of information in regard to seduction and social science which is actually a phenomenal example of lesser magic at work.

The book "Revelation" (Authored by "Lovedrop") Is not only deliciously blasphemous in it's title, but contains an concise, practical system for utilizing these social and sociological techniques to obtain the ends sought by magicians in general.

His background is amazing, an aspiring stage magician turned "Pickup artist" (He coined the phrase as a matter of fact) who has a decidedly firm grasp on the mechanics of dating and mating in such a way that anyone who can truly grok the method can benefit greatly.

I myself can attest to the power of this particular system of understanding how people relate in a sexual fashion, and would advocate that everyone interested in lesser magic (especially as it applies to seduction and attraction) should at least give it a read. I have a copy of "Revelation" and "The rules of the game" in my collection, and they've proven invaluable.

Of course, this is open to discussion/debate... but the proof is in the pudding so to speak.

Thank you very much for the recommendation! I always viewed LaVey's works as a base for Satanism - but not a conclusion. His bibliography at the end of The (Compleat) Satanic Witch has been very resourceful, and it is always invigorating to continue his legacy with even more and newer findings.

You're more than welcome.

I simply see a need an fill it.

I do disagree to a certain degree and with good reason. Doktor Anton Szandor LaVey combined an understanding of all that is in the very bibliography that you make mention of in The Compleat Witch or What to do When Virtue fails (Later Re-Released as The Satanic Witch). While I do not disagree to continue seeking out other methods I do assure you that simply understanding all that is mentioned in his tome can take some a lifetime and is the quintessential manuscript. While others provide their stance on the topic rest assured that it is not a Satanic approach. If more men would take a lesson in 'Deep Satanism' and take the time to understand The Satanic Witch then they just may understand where I am coming from.

Try not to take this reply as an attack because I mean it as not. Sometimes it is a breath of stale air to read others stance but it always ends as all one needs to know is within those pages of The Satanic Witch for both men and women. This is, and is my opinion why the Doktor never bothered with a Satanic Warlock.

It is simply perfect.

I think I understand what you're meaning here.

It essentially boils down to the idea that knowing the "When and who" of lesser magic is one thing, but an understanding of the mechanics behind the magic, the "Why and how" leaves no need for further expounding.

(At the risk of inviting the trolls... I will use this quote... though I do believe it's fitting wisdom)

"Give a man a fish... he can eat for a day. Teach a man to fish... he can eat forever."

I like your phrase "Deep satanism." as I would venture to guess that that is one of the things that makes a difference between the well meaning would-be satanist who can tell you all the information, debate the theory to no end, but still doesn't every quite "Get it."

With an understanding of WHY the mechanics of lesser magic work... or any other facet of satanism or life in general, then introducing new viewpoints or methods is simply expanding the toolbox... a handy thing, but by no means necessary.

Which is more to my original intent here, rather than suggest that the original work was somehow "incomplete" or "dated" I would rather submit the above system/viewpoint as a good example of lesser magic put to practice that didn't exist in this particular form when Doctor LaVey was still with us, it's my personal opinion that had it been around, it would have been in the bibliography.

*respect*

I entirely agree with Tier, and would like to add two things.

It is very easy to fall into the trap of thinking that Lesser Magic is about causing other people to do what you want. It's partly true, but misleading, for two reasons.

First, Lesser Magic is also about knowing what YOU want, and understanding why, and reflecting on whether the people you want to connect with are the ones who can really provide what YOU need. That's the importance of the Synthesizer Clock: it's a device to help you place yourself and identify your complement. So, your goals matter: If you go out into the world looking for validation or keeping score of your conquests or some other such bullshit, you aren't really taking the lessons of Lesser Magic to heart and are doomed to reap a bitter harvest.

Second, not just any old way of causing someone to do what you want really counts as magical. Lying, manipulating, "negging", and so on, aren't magic. (Still less is pressuring, cajoling, or intimidation.) In the Satanic Bible, the Doktor is very clear that Lesser Magic is about causing people to do what you want because they honestly desire to be close to you, to your magical persona. Lesser Magic means making others feel good about offering up what they have to you, in a lasting way -- either they get a sexy thrill from it, or they are endeared to you, or they are in awe. What this means is that Lesser Magic is to some degree self-aware, in no small part because a magical persona has to be constructed, but that persona still has to come fundamentally from a place of honesty, respect for others, and a personal sense of adventure. All magic, including Lesser Magic, is fundamentally a personal working and a self-transformation.

Hope this helps!

Thank you very much for the constructive criticism, Tier Instinct and reprobate! Though I feel that much gold can be extracted beyond LaVey's work that falls in line with Lesser and Greater Magic, I do believe that I may be steering off course in terms of Satanic witchery being causing people to do your Will because they want to and it makes them feel good, rather than gimmicks and plain manipulation.

'Deep Satanism' has always been something that I have been immersing myself into since a teenager, as simply taking everything at face value seemed a bit too dismissive of the wonderful work the Doctor produced, as well as other members of the Church. It is always quite a pain coming across people who say "Yeah, like, I read The Satanic Witch but it was just for girls. I'll wait for the guy version to come out."

The secrets for men are there! Stratification I guess determines which individuals are intelligent enough to delve even deeper into this wonderful knowledge, and which others do not deserve to understand.

I, like reprobate, would like to add to what Tier Instinct has said. I agree what both have mentioned so far.*

I think that The Satanic Witch IS complete in the sense that Dr. LaVey left it slightly incomplete.

What on earth do I mean by that contradictory statement?

Dr. LaVey left room in the book for you to take the skills and lesson that he presents in there and apply them for yourself. In using them and testing them out, the hard working magician will find ways to take the fundamentals of the lessons and tweak them and tailor them to him/herself. Thus, for the book to be complete FOR YOU, you must use these formulas and then add to them. Refine them to your best use of them. Constant refinement of the principles on a personal level is what I have found it is all about. Leaving that responsibility in your hands is wise of Dr. LaVey, and leaving that part incomplete for you to pick up and go with truly makes the tome complete in my eyes.

*I can't say the book is strictly "perfect" as Teir Instinct did. I have found one flaw: Despite my clock position (which I'm 100% positive about) I do not, nor will I ever prefer a moldy, blue cheese salad dressing if a sweet one is available!

My sentiments exact.

Nice to be on the same page for a change, my friend.

HS!

Ha! Ha! Ha!
This reminds me of a story when a reporter was with the Doktor and Magistra Barton. After swiftly finding a close park the three entered a restaurant and began the interview. The Doktor and Magistra Barton had a chuckle when the salads were ordered.

I stand firm with my words.

HS!

I absolutely agree. While I cannot profess (nor do I attempt to) advanced understanding of much of the application of lesser magic, let me take a moment and elaborate on my meaning a bit further.

Strictly within the confines of the "Mystery Method" of attraction, there is a principal which seems to be very much in line with what I believe reprobate is saying. While there IS a step-by step method which at face value would seem to be a directly manipulative system for "getting chicks" it is plainly and repeatedly stated throughout their literature that it is not at ALL about saying the right thing... or pulling the right strings at the right times... yes, they do pass on techniques and examples which have been proven to work through repeated application, those things are merely the HOW of the entire game... the WHY is far more challenging to apprehend.

They discuss at great length the difference between "outer game" and "Inner game" Again, their focus is on dating and mating, so let's be clear on that right out of the gate. But it's said plainly that it is NOT about knowing what to say to whom, when... it's about a "Way of being." They discuss quite plainly (several of their books have multiple chapters devoted specifically to this) that a woman is not directly attracted to how you dress, or your banter itself... but rather about how you contribute to the energy of a situation. It's all about the "vibe" and about what mindset you walk out there with. If you approach it from an outcome oriented "keeping score" mentality... you fail right off the get go. If, however, you walk out there with the mentality that you're going to use your charisma (either natural or learned) to help THEM have a good time, from the strong frame of "This is MY reality, and I am the prize..." then it almost doesn't matter what you say or how you appear... it's all about how you FEEL to them, and that by creating the right feeling... they will be drawn to you.


In both (my understanding of) lesser magic, and the Mystery Method, there are those who misapprehend the nature of it all and lack either direction, introspection, or the understanding that it's not about "winning or losing" it's about real, honest fulfillment.

Reading back through the posts, I would also like to take a moment to say that I don't want it to be misconstrued that I'm somehow trying to "prove" something here... I do acknowledge that my understanding could be skewed, incomplete, or simply incorrect, and I do welcome correction where I've erred.

As an after thought... self development is key in both. It's often said in Mystery Method circles that "It's not about getting the girls... It's about BECOMING the man that women want, and men want to be."

In the natural order of things, there are decent people, desirable people, idiots, douchebags, and all variety of individuals out there. I find that the mystery methods and pick-up artist "strategies" attempt to turn a less valuable individual into a more valuable one. This is sort of like saying that you can get a cheap, crappy tasting wine from the liquor store, and if you apply the correct "techniques" to it, it becomes a high quality wine. This is impossible. If you're a douchebag, then applying techniques to seem more desirable simply make you a douchebag presenting bullshit. If you have something desirable and worth offering, then you won't need any "strategies" to convince anyone of this. The quality of a nice wine is evident within the first whiff, within the first sip.

Coincidentally, I am sipping a nice shiraz-cabernet wine from Australia as I write this.

Love your point, my dear.

Again, the Devil is a gentleman.

HS!

That makes no sense.

While I will not delve into GM as it reserved for the downstairs area I can tell you that from your post you are far off base.

Magister Svengali has given us 'Deep Satanism' and a quick look at his work i.e. Essays In Satanism will open your understanding. Remember what Doktor LaVey said about coming back to understanding?

There are secrets but they await you right in front of your face. Again, Satanism demands study not worship.

Know your role!

HS!
WTI

Well put. Or, as they put it less romantically where I'm from: "You can't polish a turd."

Warlock Reprobate, I could not possibly agree more.

Another quote from Anton LaVey comes to mind:

"The Devil is a gentleman."

What in particular makes no sense to you?

I'm very familiar with Magister Svengali's work and what he has referred to as 'Deep Satanism.'

The post I wrote to which you replied said:

1.) There is work beyond what Dr. LaVey wrote that can fall in line with Lesser and Greater Magic (the works listed in the bibliography of The Satanic Witch; written work by other authors such as Robert Greene's The Art of Seduction comes to mind).

2.) Satanic Lesser Magic is about making others feel good about what they give you.

3.) I dislike when people simply take something within Satanism at face value - "Satanism requires study, not worship."

I look forward to your response.

I couldn't be in more agreement with you, Emily. The people you have described seem like insecure individuals looking for a crutch, instead of developing anything of value for themselves. Your signature quote captures this quite well.

"The underhanded manipulator is akin to the woman who stuffs her bra, or the man who wears a codpiece. When it comes down to business, the goods are revealed, and any inadequacies are subsequently exposed."

I think that's a great analysis, Reprobate.

There are three things I like best about what you've said:

1) The idea of knowing what you want, and understanding why you want it. This is what separates the slave from the master, to my mind.

2) That Lesser Magic, at its best, is about drawing people to you, and making them delight in your presence.

3) That Lesser Magic, at its best, involves drawing out and channeling that which makes you authentically awesome ;), as opposed to trying to manufacture false charisma from scratch. Except, perhaps, in the case of bonafide psychopaths, sooner or later, most people are able to sniff out inauthenticity, or realize that the dots aren't quite lining up as they should.

Your welcome.



So how can you get there if you look beyond the source?

Of course you are off course and you make it plain with terms such as .

The information is available and the great thing is is that it will not cost you a bundle. Do yourself a favor - read it.

"How can you get there beyond the source?"

Well, there's people known as de-facto Satanists. LaVey and the Church of Satan state that Satanists are a type of human, best represented and codified within The Satanic Bible. The reason why the Doctor left a bibliography at the end of The Satanic Witch, and the reason why the Church has two recommended reading lists is because there is work beyond the "source" that is relevant to Satanism.

LaVey codified and organized Satanism, but he never intended it to be an ending point - it is a beginning.

"Satanism requires study - not worship!"

Now do yourself a favor - recognize that I wouldn't be on this message forum if I had not read enough material to properly understand Satanism. I know I'm new to this forum, and I mean no disrespect to you personally, but I am not some young pseudo-Satanist.

It appears there was a misunderstanding on your part.

Sir, there is so much wrong with what you posted that I will not even dig into it. (I will not be baited). However, I feel that it is my fault for posting upstairs so much.

You have missed so much of what I posted that I now find it a waste of my time going back and forth. Bad for you - not me.

Also, before I leave you. It is Anton Szandor LaVey. When you mention the founder at least have the respect to not call him by his last name. Oh, and I know some de-factos that know more than you.

We are now done!

HS!
WTI

If you don't have anything of value to contribute to a thread, a statement such as yours is best reserved for private messaging. People in public didn't need to read that. I will reply to one thing and one thing only in your childish banter - no disrespect was intended towards Dr. LaVey by referring to him by last name.

Early in the conversation within this thread, I entered with the understanding that Lesser Magic is about manipulating people to do what you want. I would like to thank both Reprobate and TrojZyr for correcting and clarifying that misunderstanding by delving a bit deeper into the subject by suggesting that it is instead "making others feel good about offering up what they have to you, in a lasting way."

This is what I enjoy about Letters to the Devil - a place for growth, sharing of Satanic concepts, and the occasional pleasantries.

I would like to add that is seems to go very hand in hand with Satanic Rules #5, 6, and 7. Satanic Magic seems to be very focused on being a magnet of sorts in which people naturally are drawn to you for a variety of reasons. It brings to mind someone employing a "sinister" appearance through the use of aesthetics - if someone looks malevolent, he may be approached by masochists.

The wonderful dynamic between predator and prey!

Just an aside,



This is what I like about LttD also and I just wanted to make a point of saying that I've always really enjoyed your contributions.

Likewise, dear! I'm still very young and have much to learn, so I don't expect to know everything. I do, however, expect to be treated with the respect in return of the one I give out.

I thought something that could be a great idea is that if people give examples of Lesser Magic and the results that they often receive. It would be particularly helpful if members of the Hierarchy provided some of their own examples!