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#480421 - 09/12/12 07:29 PM Satanic Programming Praxis
TheAbysmal Offline


Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 1017
I thought it was high time to build an enduring thread here with the intent of conveying Satanism somewhat indirectly. My idea stems from the fact that Satanism is applied "out there in the real world", not merely here on this sanctioned forum. This forum is but a tool for enjoyment and learning. Even the General Discussions area.

I got the idea from all the "computer programming praxis" blogs that I read. These blogs teach a programming concept by providing a programming challenge that can only be solved by understanding the concept.

The only way this thread will endure is if you accept it with a spirit of learning, thinking, and teaching. And, Satanism, of course. Otherwise, this will wind up another train wreck to be locked by a Moderator. And, no one really enjoys that, right?

Rules:

1) Think originally. This is not a thread for quotes. No quotes. Use your own language. This is a thinker's thread.

2) Think "outside the box". Think "out there", not just "here on the forum". The Church of Satan is everywhere.

3) No back-and-forth discussions. If you have a difference of opinion, state your case once. If someone has already stated your case, then don't. Let's not engage in debate in this thread. Do it in another thread or in PM.

4) If someone ambushes the thread with crazy, Christian, deathist, or other clearly incompatible thought, let a Moderator or a Member of the Priesthood handle it. If you're new, then you don't know what they handle, so keep quiet and figure it out. They will probably do better than you. I know. They did better than me.

5) Always speak in the first person... "I" is the word.

6) It's okay to ask for help if you don't quite understand the thrust of a Satanic Programming Praxis. But, don't just ask right away. Think about it deeply first.

7) Avoid subtext or make it apparent. No sidebars or asides, in otherwords.

8) There is no 9th or subsequent rules... yet. I'll add rules as I see fit, if the Moderators or Priesthood don't beat me to it. These rules can go from 8 to locked or moved downstairs in a heartbeat. Dwell on all these rules and all the praxes before you reply.

* * *



Here's my starting Satanic Programming Praxis:



I sometimes find myself among others that speak and understand English and another language, too, such as Spanish.

I do not feel stupid when others speak Spanish around me, but perhaps inadequate, certainly less skilled among those who can speak Spanish and English with seemingly equal skill.

I understand English only.

I live in a country where English is the official and most widely spoken language.

If I decided to permanently reside in a country where another language was declared official other than English, such as Spain, I would at least learn its official language's rudiments.

I would not claim stupidity, but ignorance, if I were only temporarily visiting a country that did not prominently speak English. I would instead seek out those that understood English, too.

I would consider myself especially skilled to understand and speak more than only my native language.
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#480434 - 09/12/12 10:32 PM Re: Satanic Programming Praxis [Re: TheAbysmal]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
What value do you see in this exercise? Do you think that a thought expressed according to these rules is more likely to be Satanic?

Quote:
I live in a country where English is the official and most widely spoken language.

Really? May I ask, what country is that?
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#480443 - 09/13/12 02:35 AM Re: Satanic Programming Praxis [Re: TheAbysmal]
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 10553
Loc: England
>> I thought it was high time to build an enduring thread here with the intent of conveying Satanism somewhat indirectly. <<


Members of the Church of Satan who are painters, film-makers, writers and a whole swathe of other art-forms have been conveying Satanism subtley through their work for a period spanning four decades.

Others have been simply been conveying it by the way they live their lives.

And all this long before the internet was conceived.

Of course, then there are the slackers, the coat-tail riders. People who do jack-shit, achieve jack-shit and still consider themselves Satanists. They make up some of the users whose efforts amount to posting on this message board.
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#480449 - 09/13/12 07:00 AM Re: Satanic Programming Praxis [Re: TheAbysmal]
TheAbysmal Offline


Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 1017
Yes, actually, that was the value I saw in this excercise, that these "rules" would more likely express a Satanic view.

I'm even afraid to touch your other question. I don't think it is useful to the praxis, but the United States.
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#480450 - 09/13/12 07:09 AM Re: Satanic Programming Praxis [Re: TheAbysmal]
TheAbysmal Offline


Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 1017
Though I have not been able to express Satanism through the arts so much, I've expressed it through a wide variety of personal and professional achievements, more so in the last few years than ever.

I suppose there are those who don't amount to much more than posters here. I don't think I should count myself among that group. Also, I don't know that I agree that the Internet is a poor medium to express Satanism. Perhaps it is not the best, but I've found it useful for me.

I thought it could be a fun kind of thought experiment. I beg your pardon, Reverend, if this post of mine was ill conceived.
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#480455 - 09/13/12 08:47 AM Re: Satanic Programming Praxis [Re: TheAbysmal]
Lust Offline


Registered: 11/02/05
Posts: 4214
Originally Posted By: TheAbysmal
I thought it was high time to build an enduring thread here with the intent of conveying Satanism somewhat indirectly. My idea stems from the fact that Satanism is applied "out there in the real world", not merely here on this sanctioned forum. This forum is but a tool for enjoyment and learning. Even the General Discussions area.

I got the idea from all the "computer programming praxis" blogs that I read. These blogs teach a programming concept by providing a programming challenge that can only be solved by understanding the concept.

The only way this thread will endure is if you accept it with a spirit of learning, thinking, and teaching. And, Satanism, of course. Otherwise, this will wind up another train wreck to be locked by a Moderator. And, no one really enjoys that, right?

Rules:

1) Think originally. This is not a thread for quotes. No quotes. Use your own language. This is a thinker's thread.

2) Think "outside the box". Think "out there", not just "here on the forum". The Church of Satan is everywhere.

3) No back-and-forth discussions. If you have a difference of opinion, state your case once. If someone has already stated your case, then don't. Let's not engage in debate in this thread. Do it in another thread or in PM.

4) If someone ambushes the thread with crazy, Christian, deathist, or other clearly incompatible thought, let a Moderator or a Member of the Priesthood handle it. If you're new, then you don't know what they handle, so keep quiet and figure it out. They will probably do better than you. I know. They did better than me.

5) Always speak in the first person... "I" is the word.

6) It's okay to ask for help if you don't quite understand the thrust of a Satanic Programming Praxis. But, don't just ask right away. Think about it deeply first.

7) Avoid subtext or make it apparent. No sidebars or asides, in otherwords.

8) There is no 9th or subsequent rules... yet. I'll add rules as I see fit, if the Moderators or Priesthood don't beat me to it. These rules can go from 8 to locked or moved downstairs in a heartbeat. Dwell on all these rules and all the praxes before you reply.

* * *



Here's my starting Satanic Programming Praxis:



I sometimes find myself among others that speak and understand English and another language, too, such as Spanish.

I do not feel stupid when others speak Spanish around me, but perhaps inadequate, certainly less skilled among those who can speak Spanish and English with seemingly equal skill.

I understand English only.

I live in a country where English is the official and most widely spoken language.

If I decided to permanently reside in a country where another language was declared official other than English, such as Spain, I would at least learn its official language's rudiments.

I would not claim stupidity, but ignorance, if I were only temporarily visiting a country that did not prominently speak English. I would instead seek out those that understood English, too.

I would consider myself especially skilled to understand and speak more than only my native language.


I am making this up as I go. Ha Ha Ha! zombie
_________________________
�Love is one of the most intense feelings felt by man; another is hate. Forcing yourself to feel indiscriminate love is very unnatural. If you try to love everyone you only lessen your feelings for those who deserve your love. Repressed hatred can lead to many physical and emotional aliments. By learning to release your hatred towards those who deserve it, you cleanse yourself of these malignant emotions and need not take your pent-up hatred out on your loved ones.�
Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible

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#480462 - 09/13/12 10:30 AM Re: Satanic Programming Praxis [Re: TheAbysmal]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Quote:
Yes, actually, that was the value I saw in this excercise, that these "rules" would more likely express a Satanic view.

Why do you believe this?

Quote:
I'm even afraid to touch your other question. I don't think it is useful to the praxis, but the United States.

The United States does not have an official language. That is pertinent to the sentiment you were trying to express, isn't it?
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#480464 - 09/13/12 11:15 AM Re: Satanic Programming Praxis [Re: TheAbysmal]
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 10553
Loc: England
Originally Posted By: TheAbysmal
Yes, actually, that was the value I saw in this excercise, that these "rules" would more likely express a Satanic view.

I'm even afraid to touch your other question. I don't think it is useful to the praxis, but the United States.



Personally, I am not understanding what it is you're actually trying to do.

You appear to be proposing that Satanism can be conveyed in the real world - and I was merely pointing out that CoS members have been doing so - pulling the strings from the shadows - for approaching 50 years.
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#480465 - 09/13/12 11:19 AM Re: Satanic Programming Praxis [Re: TheAbysmal]
TheAbysmal Offline


Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 1017
Warlock Reprobate,

I see that I misunderstood your question and answered it too quickly.

I don't expect to get out of anything that I did not put into it. I could just as well have offered a praxis that exhibited Christian thought, for instance. So, to better answer your question, no. The value I saw, rather, is that Satanic thought expressed in this fashion might provide different, and fun avenue to Satanic concepts that are expressed directly elsewhere.

You are correct that the United States has no federal official language. I read up on it a bit more after I saw your question and answered it. I could have been better to say "were the de facto" instead of "declared the official", were I speaking of the United States in particular. In fact, the United States was not pertinent to what I was trying to express. I could have very well had used different languages, French and German, for example. I merely used ones in my example that I'm most familiar.

In fact, I could have gone through extraordinary measures in my wording to ensure that I were not somehow sounding bigoted. And, I probably would still have missed that bar. I didn't think I needed to do that.

If we wanted to make the United States the preferred locale in my praxis, then "I" might be stupid to move into a predominanty hispanic neighborhood in the US and refuse to learn Spanish.

The idea that I wanted to emerge from my praxis was not one of officially recognized borders, official (or de facto) languages, or other unimportant things, but of "one meeting or not meeting one's personal need".

Does that make better sense now?
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#480466 - 09/13/12 11:24 AM Re: Satanic Programming Praxis [Re: Drake_Bamboozle]
TheAbysmal Offline


Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 1017
Reverend,

I tried to better address this in this reply.

Also, I misunderstood your first reply initially, but I understand it now. Thanks for clarifying.
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#480467 - 09/13/12 11:31 AM Re: Satanic Programming Praxis [Re: TheAbysmal]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Do you think needs, met or unmet, can always be stated in simple statements that conform to the rules you've proposed? That they are best expressed in this way? That they are most clearly expressed in this way?

(I'm asking these questions, not to needle you, but because the precise nature and intent of your exercise aren't clear to me at all.)


Edited by reprobate (09/13/12 11:32 AM)
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#480476 - 09/13/12 04:11 PM Re: Satanic Programming Praxis [Re: reprobate]
TheAbysmal Offline


Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 1017
First, thanks for mentioning that you're not trying to needle me. I find it much easier to know how to reply.

I'm not sure whether "Not meeting your needs is stupid and un-Satanic", or any other point, can always be stated in simple statements that conform to the rules I proposed. I'd be interested to see if they could or could not, either way.

Given that Satanism has been described as I-theistic, I think the "I" rule could at least always be met. Perhaps not. I left the rule framework flexible, and though I only mentioned adding rules as necessary, removing them as needed makes sense, too, I think. My thought was, have a framework from which to start, at least.

Are points like this best expressed this way? If find that hard to answer unequivocally. I think it could be handy to have indirect in addition to direct representations without excluding one for the other.

Are points most clearly expressed this way? I'd say no, not in most cases, but again, I can't be unequivocal.

I understand that didn't make my intent for this thread as clear as I could. I named it Satanic Programming Praxis last night, but the word I was really looking for evaded me. Satanic Koans might have made my intent a little clearer. I wasn't quite looking for others to submit the Satanic equivalent of "What is the sound of one hand clapping?" only, though such submissions could work fine.

Tier Instinct's submission seems close to that to me. I'm not sure that I quite get it, but when I read it, I don't feel like there's nothing to be gotten from it.

I thought on this more throughout my day at work. It occurred to me that one has to think "What is Satanic about this?" to get the Satanism out of the Koan or Praxis (or whatever fitting name we call these things) like what has been submitted. So, while these things might lack a certain clarity or directness, I think that could be a way to have fun with them.

Have I better clarified my intent for this thread?
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#480477 - 09/13/12 04:29 PM Re: Satanic Programming Praxis [Re: TheAbysmal]
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 10553
Loc: England
>> Have I better clarified my intent for this thread? <<


Not for me. I have no idea what you're warbling on about. witch
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#480478 - 09/13/12 05:00 PM Re: Satanic Programming Praxis [Re: TheAbysmal]
Chaos_Sedated Offline
CoS Priest

Registered: 09/26/06
Posts: 249
Loc: San Diego, CA
I've done programming "praxis" exercises at the university and independent level and the point is always to reinforce the understanding of programming fundamentals. And through practicing such exercises you supposed to become a better advanced programmer.

The issue I see here is that in this application you're implying that one can "become" a better Satanist or master Satanic fundamentals through these exercises. Which to me, doesn't make sense. You either get Satanism, or you don't. You don't practice at becoming a better fundamental Satanist, you're then going against your natural instincts. At that point you would be better off operating under a more compatible paradigm rather than trying to adjust your thoughts to fit this one.

Yes, Satanism demands study. But to me that means the study of music, art, history, psychology, sociology, and the mastery of technique, execution, and rhetoric.


Edited by Chaos_Sedated (09/13/12 05:03 PM)
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#480483 - 09/13/12 05:32 PM Re: Satanic Programming Praxis [Re: Chaos_Sedated]
TheAbysmal Offline


Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 1017
I disagree that one can't practice and become a better Satanist, to explore his nature, learn more about it, and live better from it. You mention that you did programming praxes at university, and that these were designed to make you a better programmer. They either did or didn't, and that result would have stemmed from whether or not you were ever a programmer, or had the capacity for programming might be a better way to word it.

Just like Satanism, one either gets programming or does not, I think. There are even studies that attempt to explore this phenomenon that emerges in programming classes. Some people just do not get programming no matter what the teaching method or how good the instructor. They've even developed a test to help determine non-programmers. I ought to find it later. I think you'd enjoy it.

II think that my point of having fun with it got lost in among all the explaining of my intent that I had to do, too. I really thought it could just be a fun thing to do. I don't know whether you ever enjoyed your university programming praxes or not, but I'll bet you saw classmates that did and didn't.

I like and agree with what you said about Satanism demanding study of all the different subjects you mentioned. I think that makes a lot of sense.

Also, whether we agree or not, I'm really glad that you understood my thread! smile I was beginning to wonder just how opaque it was.
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#480486 - 09/13/12 05:56 PM Re: Satanic Programming Praxis [Re: TheAbysmal]
Lust Offline


Registered: 11/02/05
Posts: 4214
I know you were not responding to me but if I may cut in?

What you are missing is that Satanism is not an universal religion but is solitary. I have stated many times that if all members turned in their red cards that I would hang on to mine because it means that much to me. I have not only taken on the title but the symbol also means that much to (me).

Satanism is a selfish religion/philosophy.

While it does demand study it also spits in the face of altruism!

Get it? Good!

Hail Satan!
WTI
coopdevil

P.S.

Rev. Drake Bamboozle hit the nail on the head!
_________________________
�Love is one of the most intense feelings felt by man; another is hate. Forcing yourself to feel indiscriminate love is very unnatural. If you try to love everyone you only lessen your feelings for those who deserve your love. Repressed hatred can lead to many physical and emotional aliments. By learning to release your hatred towards those who deserve it, you cleanse yourself of these malignant emotions and need not take your pent-up hatred out on your loved ones.�
Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible

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#480491 - 09/13/12 06:40 PM Re: Satanic Programming Praxis [Re: TheAbysmal]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Okay, so, I think I might be starting to grasp what you're after. Correct me if I'm wrong here. What you seem to be saying is that you're concerned to ensure that your take on some particular issue is adequately or properly Satanic, so you have developed this system of rules which, when applied, you believe is more likely to result in a Satanic formulation of the issue. In this respect, the exercise is like programming praxis, in that it yields an elegant solution to a given problem. Is that correct?
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#480496 - 09/13/12 07:23 PM Re: Satanic Programming Praxis [Re: reprobate]
TheAbysmal Offline


Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 1017
No, I'm not concerned that I'm adequately or properly Satanic. I'm not aware of a system of rules that, when applied, lead to a Satanic perspective on an issue that would not otherwise arise.

Rather, I might be looking to glean from another's perspective on something that I've never encountered or thought of before myself, and then ponder for myself, "How is that Satanic?" Or, "How would that serve me?"

Finding elegant or even novel solutions to given problems or perspectives on issues... Yes.

There are just things that never occurred to me before.

For instance, I remember first coming here years ago and reading about the so-called third perspective. What's that? Drimlybunk gave me an excellent example of it, showing how the whole issue of pro-life and pro-choice wasn't as dichotomous as it is so widely believed to be.

In fact, I had always found myself struggling to reconcile how I felt about abortion and finding neither side quite fitting my views. The Responsibility to the Responsible view, when he mentioned it, was perfect. Once I had that concept or that elegant solution to my dilemma, I had it to apply everywhere I found it problematic to pick a side.

Drimlybunk showed me something that I had that I didn't realize.

He didn't do so with a koan, praxis, or indirect example, but he could have. I may or may not have gotten it as quickly, but I'd might have had the same "Aha!".

I'm rather taken with Tier Instinct's recent reply. I haven't mistaken Satanism as non-selfish, altruistic, or anything like that, but I may have discounted how selfishness renders my idea pointless. Satanism being inherently selfish, any submission like what I had described could/would sail over the heads of anyone else who read it.

So, at this point, I see no reasonable recourse other than to admit the now evident error in my original thinking, declare this thread of mine still-born, and leave it be.

I got something out of all this at least, and I appreciate everyone's feedback that made it obtainable. Hopefully, this isn't such a train wreck that others can't, too.
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#480498 - 09/13/12 07:36 PM Re: Satanic Programming Praxis [Re: TheAbysmal]
Bet'phage Offline


Registered: 11/18/11
Posts: 194
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: TheAbysmal
So, at this point, I see no reasonable recourse other than to admit the now evident error in my original thinking, declare this thread of mine still-born, and leave it be.

I got something out of all this at least, and I appreciate everyone's feedback that made it obtainable. Hopefully, this isn't such a train wreck that others can't, too.

Sometimes the questions we ask are not the questions we actually want the answer to. Perhaps people's replies to this thread have answered a question that was not the one which was asked?

How's that for being indirect? coopdevil
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#480500 - 09/13/12 07:49 PM Re: Satanic Programming Praxis [Re: Bet'phage]
TheAbysmal Offline


Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 1017
Quote:
Perhaps people's replies to this thread have answered a question that was not the one which was asked?


Right you are. smile
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