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#483335 - 11/28/12 07:09 PM A Query about the CoS and Mental Ailments
Dionysus Offline


Registered: 05/13/06
Posts: 137
Loc: Belial's Barracks
Can a person with a serious mental/learning disability (be it genetic or due to external circumstances) be accepted as part of the Satanic elite by the CoS (for example, people with severe ADHD, autism, down syndrome, poor focus due to PTSD, etc.), or would their impairments have them be considered as liabilities rather than useful members, given they are slower to comprehend things that even the majority would have no problem with, putting them below average in most things instead of above? That's not to say that they wouldn't or couldn't excel at other things that very few could even understand or do moderately well at, however. But, if such a person with that kind of impediment has trouble following simple instructions, say, which is often the case, would that be grounds for rejection due to the stratifying demands of trying to build an alliance and hierarchy with only the most fit?

Thanks.
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"We always strive after things forbidden and covet what is denied us." - Francois Rabelais

"A demon knows how to torture powers out of even the weakest person, and in his way he can have the best intentions towards a human being." - Soren Kierkegaard

“The pathological limitations of his perspective make of the convinced man a fanatic.” – Friedrich Nietzsche

"No one should be protected from the effects of his own stupidity." - Anton LaVey

"SOCRATES: But what kind of care of the gods would piety be?

EUTHYPHRO: The kind of care, Socrates, that slaves take of their masters." - Plato; Euthyphro

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#483340 - 11/28/12 07:38 PM Re: A Query about the CoS and Mental Ailments [Re: Dionysus]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11561
Loc: New England, USA
Originally Posted By: Dionysus
Can a person with a serious mental/learning disability (be it genetic or due to external circumstances) be accepted as part of the Satanic elite by the CoS (for example, people with severe ADHD, autism, down syndrome, poor focus due to PTSD, etc.), or would their impairments have them be considered as liabilities rather than useful members,

Are you asking whether such diagnoses would disqualify somebody from having a membership in the Church of Satan? Since you listed such a wide range of mental illnesses, I'd say it depends. For example, given the ever broadening range of what constitutes "ADHD" or "autism" these days, it's possible to be diagnosed with one of these while be far from, say, Rain Man. But if it's really that severe, then I'd suspect the person wouldn't be able to comprehend and adhere to the cohesive concepts of Satanism (or any other religion) in the first place and wouldn't be seeking it out.

Quote:
But, if such a person with that kind of impediment has trouble following simple instructions,

If that was the case, then they'd probably not be able to properly submit the letter in the first place. smile
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#483363 - 11/29/12 12:56 PM Re: A Query about the CoS and Mental Ailments [Re: Dionysus]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10133
This question is asked a lot but has little practical relation to how things actually work. Even your list is extremely broad - really, you have to ask if we'd take someone with Down's Syndrome?

In reality, I don't see that we even have to go so far as to consider the "disorder" given that those with behavioral issues weed themselves out pretty readily.
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"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#487411 - 03/11/13 04:00 AM Re: A Query about the CoS and Mental Ailments [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Pnakotic Offline


Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 5
The OP's question is rather important to my own position, and thread necromancy aside, I would ask a similar question naturally from my own perspective.

It has been many years since I've posted here. I am much more inclined to use the internet as a tool, and socialise elsewhere so to speak. I made a decision (quite a while ago obviously) that I wanted to join the Church of Satan. However, I am aware of "natural flux", and choose not to do so unless my decision was adamant over the whole 9 years representing my first reading of LaVey's work. This means to me, the pinnacle of a Working (re: "The Unknown Known.")

To get to the point, I am a diagnosed schizophrenic. Rather than let this be some kind of "crutch", I have (since my diagnosis) made this my strength, and am now effectively employed as a counsellor to many others for when the stigma of such gets too much. I do not in any way think of this as the good guy badge, rather as beneficial to myself to be perfectly honest.

This being said; over many many years I have seen this labelled - by those I personally consider fools - to be a hinderance on "the occult path." I believe Aquino wrote much to the same effect - "the mentally ill shouldn't practise magic" or some such. This to me is rather stupid, as my ability to visualise during ritual is intensely effective, perhaps because of my so called "dis"ability.

So, I would put the same question forth regarding this, as I am finally on the very threshold of submitting my application to be a registered member. Of course, this is subjected to myself (as a schizophrenic), not to the broader topic of mental "ailments."
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Ex nihilo nihil fit

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#487412 - 03/11/13 04:37 AM Re: A Query about the CoS and Mental Ailments [Re: Pnakotic]
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 10574
Loc: England
If what you say is true, and you have your condition under control -- as advised by medical professionals -- then I do not see a problem.
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#487413 - 03/11/13 04:57 AM Re: A Query about the CoS and Mental Ailments [Re: Drake_Bamboozle]
Pnakotic Offline


Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 5
Thank you Rev. Drake for the prompt and to the point reply.

While I will not wax lyrical about the nature of said conditions, I am fully supported by both medication (as someone with a heart ailment for example) and by my psychiatrist, who is both a friend, gentleman, and very progressive in his field.

While obviously my name is a pseudonymn and I prefer online anonymity, everything I wrote in the above post was indeed true.
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Ex nihilo nihil fit

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#487419 - 03/11/13 11:42 AM Re: A Query about the CoS and Mental Ailments [Re: Pnakotic]
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 10574
Loc: England
Originally Posted By: Pnakotic
Thank you Rev. Drake for the prompt and to the point reply.

While I will not wax lyrical about the nature of said conditions, I am fully supported by both medication (as someone with a heart ailment for example) and by my psychiatrist, who is both a friend, gentleman, and very progressive in his field.

While obviously my name is a pseudonymn and I prefer online anonymity, everything I wrote in the above post was indeed true.



I'll let you into a secret. Drake Bamboozle is not my real name either.
grin

Here's something else: Satanists are not perfect and nor do any of us claim to be. We experience all the obstacles in life just the same as any human being might.

Though to address the issue I like to quote Charles Bukowski:

"What matters most is how well you walk through the fire."
_________________________
"u.v.ray blends the dark street poetry of Nelson Algren with the swagger and style of a young Iggy Pop."

www.uvray.moonfruit.com





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#487787 - 03/18/13 10:38 PM Re: A Query about the CoS and Mental Ailments [Re: Drake_Bamboozle]
Ygraine Offline

CoS Magistra

Registered: 07/11/01
Posts: 2849
Loc: Florida
I'd just like to point out the very simple fact that actions are what counts. Plenty of people say they are Satanists or say they are mentally healthy or whatever....in the end it is our actions that demonstrate our understanding and commitment to Satanism and the CoS.
Those actions are what will be judged, and what will be remembered. The labels are merely a starting point by which we can evaluate how far one strays from, or how closely one genuinely embraces, their own ideals
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#487847 - 03/20/13 06:56 AM Re: A Query about the CoS and Mental Ailments [Re: Ygraine]
Pnakotic Offline


Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 5
Thank you for the reply Magistra. It's fundamental point I very well understand.

Originally Posted By: Ygraine
Plenty of people say they are Satanists or say they are mentally healthy or whatever....


In my personal experience, most "Satanists" I have met slander LaVey and his Church, so I doubt their claims to any title, and thus write here. I am merely addressing an issue that resonates to me. I do not feel persecuted in any way, but mental health is stigmatic. Part of my mental process is abnormal, simply said. I take medication, and function "well" because of this. Just like a diabetic can with insulin. But if I was to join Thelema (which I never would) my contributions or actions within that religion would be considered limited. The same applies if I was to join the Temple of Set (which i wouldn't either).

I am simply stating that "this is me" as who I am, and if being myself limits me from joining the Church of Satan, then I can simply enjoy my life (which happens to be very much Satanic in the sense of LaVey and High Priest Gilmore's codification) without joining. My actions can and do obviously speak louder than any words, certainly. This is an internet forum, and I could be "any old nutjob" stirring a virtual pot. Which I'm not, I'm asking a very real question, and thus recieved what I consider very real and clear answers from two of those here I wanted those answers from.

Again, thank you both.
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Ex nihilo nihil fit

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#489023 - 05/02/13 03:18 PM Re: A Query about the CoS and Mental Ailments [Re: Drake_Bamboozle]
SlipstreamPirate Offline


Registered: 04/28/13
Posts: 3
Loc: Ozark Mountains
Post deleted because poster is neither a Moderator nor a Member of the Priesthood.


Edited by LKRice (05/02/13 03:32 PM)

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