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#484452 - 12/28/12 03:29 AM Re: The 10 Commandments [Re: Venator]
Clarkkent Offline


Registered: 11/17/12
Posts: 8
Loc: Illinois
Personally I think the commandments represent a goal in order for harmony to eventually exist in the world, and to me it is more of a checklist of perfection. When we accomplish these not merely by suffering by abstaining, but to live it and LOVE our lives in accordance to these commands. Not to abstain, but to find a way to a condition of man in harmony which we do not even want, or need to break the rules. For a man to love his life so much that he doesn't ABSTAIN from stealing another man's wife (Helen of Troy good example) but loves and lusts after his own companion/lover/wife/etc. The thought doesn't even cross his mind, for his life is beyond any consideration of destroying his neighbor's life, or his own (or countless others) just to fulfill some silly 2 second fantasy. His life is so completely satisfying he would not even find himself looking for greener pastures. For he is consistantly amazed by his own pastures (theoretically satisfied in every way forever), that he does not need to gratify any such need, it wouldn't exist.

Same as lying, to me the real meaning is greater in not lying to yourself and instead being brutally, and ABSOLUTELY honest with yourself. I don't look at it as the belief that you (no matter what the consequence) put yourself in a position where you needlessly endanger yourself or others by telling a truth just to obey the command (in vain), but to put yourself in a position where lying isn't necessary in ANY regard (obviously this is hard for anyone to really conceive of if you were to express the idea to any random Joe on the street...the world is not even close to perfect yet lol) I find the commandments very interesting.

Taken completely literally as a daily set of absolute laws it would seem to resemble an impossible equation for almost all mankind. To me, it kind of suggests what would be required to ensure safety and happiness in heaven if you will. For good, evil, everything we know from the beginning of time up until this very second to be addressed and assessed by admitting all the ugly and beautiful things (so many subjective opinions as to what these are when described as such, diversity and that) to finally resolve any conflicts we all have with each other, to finally confront these ignorant damn prejudices, hatea, axioms, presumptions, stereotypes, and downright complete pessimistic views of just about 99% of everything WE (people in general)as individuals lack our "personal" taste that results (little do many realize) all the bloodshed, and time behind prison walls these days. All simply because man doesn't want these seemingly horrible things in his or her life so screw it this other guy who got unlucky should now die or go to jail and deny he exists (The Beech the movie rings a bell when referring to the guy that got bit by the shark and was exiled out of camp as they managed to carry on in their paradise) Then they wonder why they have people cold as ice that come back out of prison who themselves weren't shown mercy so it's easy as pie for them to now rob, rape, and kill other law obiding citizens (technically speaking of course) Thall shall not lie, well if people were completely honest with themselves I think the world would be a hell of a lot better off than it is. Denial is not only a sign of substance abuse it's a common symptom of man's lack of health these days IMO. Truth is all about understanding.

9 satanic statements to me is a set of damn rules some of us need to exist in such a world with our understanding until such a time we've finally found a way to gratify all our wants and needs as a world, and finally remain (to the fullest extent of meaning of the word which is a more powerful word than gratify IMO) "satisfied" in every regard. It's very rare I come across people who really know what the hell is going on in their own minds, or in the world around them. so much contradiction, it's seemingly impossible to even show them how backwards their thinking is. Could be a very long time until then. Hopefully we start picking up the pace sometime soon (mankind as a whole). I think all the virtues, deadly sins, cardinal rules, commandments, etc. are really interesting. Just denying their value full stop is IMO a little careless.

I'm probably a bit off track here, I kind of just decided to jump off and do a reply before going through the thread I'll probably regret that later lol. Hopefully i stayed somewhat on topic!

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#484454 - 12/28/12 04:29 AM Re: The 10 Commandments [Re: Clarkkent]
John Prophet Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 995
Loc: My suburban lair
Originally Posted By: Clarkkent
Personally I think the commandments represent a goal in order for harmony to eventually exist in the world, and to me it is more of a checklist of perfection.

It's important to note that you seem to be focusing exclusively on the last five. This makes sense seeing as how the first five are completely useless.

I'm not sure that I would call a series of broad statements, that is at best 50% relevant, "a checklist of perfection".
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#484458 - 12/28/12 06:48 AM Re: The 10 Commandments [Re: John Prophet]
Clarkkent Offline


Registered: 11/17/12
Posts: 8
Loc: Illinois
The first 5, to me at least, suggest that we not allow someone else define who or what god is. Whether it be in a form of a deity, life force, all, Jesus etc. When reading, "I am the lord thy god" Does that mean the reader decide, then. that he has just referred to himself the lord thy god? Who does this depict? It leaves it wide open to interpretation. The commandments, virtues, candinals etc. seem to be more of a guide as to what it would take to make man more than a mere virus and finally become a being that does not destroy it's host. But rather find himself in a prosperous, harmonious state which also manages to recruit part of that by means of creating harmony in all that surrounds us the kindgoms that we dominate (ultimately the entire world and perhaps the universe)

Another interesting one, thou shall not kill. This Commandment doesn't define only killing of another human being... It certainly seems to relate to gluttony as well as killing animals for food only which I agree with. The killing of more life than is necessary. If we were to manage a state of immortality, in theory, the goal would be to change the fact that life, in order to survive, feeds on life as a formula. If an ET or AI were to do a logical observation/analysis of man kind it could easily be found that we are better off dead than alive, certainly if that analyzer didn't consider us priority, but just another equal unit or quantity in reference to every other animal, insect, etc. If we maintain our current path as COS mentions, at times worse than all 4-legged animals as we are like human bulldozers (and to a FAR greater extent than any other animals, even crushing mother natures "acts of god" with our feats) but even when it comes to conflict within us, we must be the most hostile being to it's own kind, and would be perceived as only doing so for our own selfish interest without much, if at all, attention given to actually replenishing or making amends for our distruction (pollution, oil spills, ozone layer, radiation, rain forests etc). Besides, if we accidentally drive something into extinction, that we weren't fully aware of, contributed to some incredibly important fundamental in nature and/or existence of life as we know it, then harmony's security is fucked!

I certainly don't consider any religion to be without some merit. I am not a Christian by the way. Although, there is plenty to be learned by them (good or bad) as well as any religion/cult. Certainly the story of God and Lucifer had a profound affect on my life, and certainly for the better (symbolically speaking).


Edited by Clarkkent (12/28/12 09:47 AM)

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#484473 - 12/28/12 12:59 PM Re: The 10 Commandments [Re: Clarkkent]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11561
Loc: New England, USA
Originally Posted By: Clarkkent
The first 5, to me at least, suggest that we not allow someone else define who or what god is. Whether it be in a form of a deity, life force, all, Jesus etc. When reading, "I am the lord thy god" Does that mean the reader decide [sic], then. [sic] that he has just referred to himself the lord thy god? Who does this depict? It leaves it wide open to interpretation.

When you consider where the Ten Commandments come from, and read the whole story about Moses, it's quite clear who that commandment is supposed to be about. The widest you can "interpret" it in this context is as the deity of the three Abrahamic religions. To say that the first few commands are still "universal" seems like a terribly desperate game of word stretching.

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The commandments, virtues, candinals [sic] etc. seem to be more of a guide as to what it would take to make man more than a mere virus and finally become a being that does not destroy it's [sic] host.

Or least that's what the Hebrews may have thought, if we're going to be pretty generous about it. But this list of 10 items still has no place in a government building.

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Another interesting one, thou shall not kill. This Commandment doesn't define only killing of another human being...

Yes, it does. Otherwise you wouldn't see animal sacrifices show up later in the Torah.

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It certainly seems to relate to gluttony as well

No, it doesn't. See above.

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as killing animals for food only which I agree with.

No, it doesn't. Why are you desperately trying to stretch this commandment to match up with Satanic rule #10?

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If we maintain our current path as COS mentions, at times worse than all 4-legged animals

Stop right there. Read the rest of Satanic statement #7, not just the first half. It's this whole self-delusional notion of "divine spiritual and intellectual development" (and there's a reason why the quotation marks are there) that's the problem, not the solution.

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but even when it comes to conflict within us, we must be the most hostile being to it's [sic] own kind, and would be perceived as only doing so for our own selfish interest without much, if at all, attention given to actually replenishing or making amends for our distruction [sic] (pollution, oil spills, ozone layer, radiation, rain forests etc).

You're getting ALL of this from "Thou shalt not kill"? Really?

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I certainly don't consider any religion to be without some merit. I am not a Christian by the way.

Do you at least consider yourself a Satanist?

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Certainly the story of God and Lucifer had a profound affect on my life, and certainly for the better (symbolically speaking).

Which "story of God and Lucifer" are you talking about? Milton's "Paradise Lost"? There's absolutely no stories of "Lucifer" in the Bible. The name shows up once and only once in the entire Bible, as only as a weird misinterpretation of the Hebrew word "heyel" for "morning star" (Venus).
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#484489 - 12/28/12 10:36 PM Re: The 10 Commandments [Re: Venator]
xjoeh801x Offline


Registered: 12/28/12
Posts: 11
Loc: Utah
I disagree with the posting of the biblical scripture in courts or any government facility. I live in Utah religion is forced down your throat the second you enter pre-school! We can't be complacent or neutral anymore, the religious right aren't toward us, and they impose their laws upon us. And you don't have to swear on the bible in court, you just have to swear to tell the the truth under penalty of law, if more people took a stand it might make people in power think a little more about what they try to impose.
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#484655 - 01/02/13 08:23 PM Re: The 10 Commandments [Re: xjoeh801x]
Ri. Offline


Registered: 01/02/13
Posts: 1
I completely agree with you, I feel like if I should be forced to place upon any bible my hand, it would have to be the Satanic Bible by LaVey! I shall not be forced to place it on only one, we may as well not have to place our hand on anything etc.

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#484673 - 01/03/13 08:04 AM Re: The 10 Commandments [Re: Bill_M]
Clarkkent Offline


Registered: 11/17/12
Posts: 8
Loc: Illinois
Originally Posted By: Bill_M
Originally Posted By: Clarkkent
The first 5, to me at least, suggest that we not allow someone else define who or what god is. Whether it be in a form of a deity, life force, all, Jesus etc. When reading, "I am the lord thy god" Does that mean the reader decide [sic], then. [sic] that he has just referred to himself the lord thy god? Who does this depict? It leaves it wide open to interpretation.

When you consider where the Ten Commandments come from, and read the whole story about Moses, it's quite clear who that commandment is supposed to be about. The widest you can "interpret" it in this context is as the deity of the three Abrahamic religions. To say that the first few commands are still "universal" seems like a terribly desperate game of word stretching.

Quote:
The commandments, virtues, candinals [sic] etc. seem to be more of a guide as to what it would take to make man more than a mere virus and finally become a being that does not destroy it's [sic] host.

Or least that's what the Hebrews may have thought, if we're going to be pretty generous about it. But this list of 10 items still has no place in a government building.

Quote:
Another interesting one, thou shall not kill. This Commandment doesn't define only killing of another human being...

Yes, it does. Otherwise you wouldn't see animal sacrifices show up later in the Torah.

Quote:
It certainly seems to relate to gluttony as well

No, it doesn't. See above.

Quote:
as killing animals for food only which I agree with.

No, it doesn't. Why are you desperately trying to stretch this commandment to match up with Satanic rule #10?

Quote:
If we maintain our current path as COS mentions, at times worse than all 4-legged animals

Stop right there. Read the rest of Satanic statement #7, not just the first half. It's this whole self-delusional notion of "divine spiritual and intellectual development" (and there's a reason why the quotation marks are there) that's the problem, not the solution.

Quote:
but even when it comes to conflict within us, we must be the most hostile being to it's [sic] own kind, and would be perceived as only doing so for our own selfish interest without much, if at all, attention given to actually replenishing or making amends for our distruction [sic] (pollution, oil spills, ozone layer, radiation, rain forests etc).

You're getting ALL of this from "Thou shalt not kill"? Really?

Quote:
I certainly don't consider any religion to be without some merit. I am not a Christian by the way.

Do you at least consider yourself a Satanist?

Quote:
Certainly the story of God and Lucifer had a profound affect on my life, and certainly for the better (symbolically speaking).

Which "story of God and Lucifer" are you talking about? Milton's "Paradise Lost"? There's absolutely no stories of "Lucifer" in the Bible. The name shows up once and only once in the entire Bible, as only as a weird misinterpretation of the Hebrew word "heyel" for "morning star" (Venus).


Yes I do consider myself a Satanist. I absolutely feel at home when reading the 9 satanic statements. I absolutely believe in total freedom when it comes to myself. I believe I have the right to be and feel exactly how i wish to feel and act as long as it is in accordance with not deliberately endangering or hurting innocent life in the process.

There are many different literal translations in religions (I could care less about the details, nor do I rely on them literally in any sense), i myself see them as something else. When i mention lucifer I mean it in a very basic manner. God made Lucifer, God made Lucifer Perfect. Lucifer waged war against God, Lucifer Lost, and rather than being Killed by God he was given the opportunity to live rather than die. The rest is open to why something like this would happen in a place referred to as Heaven. With all his might why did he not have the ability to create perfect harmony, and why did he not kill Lucifer rather than send him to tempt man to hell rather than leave his children (humans) innocent, leaving open the gates of heaven to each and every one of us. This is not identical to any written story. THis is a philosophical basis to unlock any moral answer to every question there ever was or is. Even if it is not the exact words or story told this one should free up any doubt as to what is or should be.

This all leads to the real question.. why does pain and agony exist. Ultimately, once stability is secured, then materialism can be conquered (and I mean this in a very high quality/efficient gratified sense), once that is conquered all resources dedicated to making man completely satisfied in every reguard before/after absolution.


Edited by Clarkkent (01/03/13 08:13 AM)

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#484674 - 01/03/13 08:58 AM Re: The 10 Commandments [Re: Clarkkent]
Quaark Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 8876
Originally Posted By: Clarkkent
the real question... why does (sic) pain and agony exist


They exist because we are biological organisms with nervous systems that evolved to detect pain, in order to allow us to detect threats to our survival so as to escape from them in the present and learn to avoid them in the future.

An even more profound existential question however was put forth in 1956 by Frankie Lymon and the Teenagers, but even that is rather easily answered by evolutionary biology.

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#484676 - 01/03/13 10:46 AM Re: The 10 Commandments [Re: Quaark]
Clarkkent Offline


Registered: 11/17/12
Posts: 8
Loc: Illinois
Originally Posted By: Quaark
Originally Posted By: Clarkkent
the real question... why does (sic) pain and agony exist


They exist because we are biological organisms with nervous systems that evolved to detect pain, in order to allow us to detect threats to our survival so as to escape from them in the present and learn to avoid them in the future.

An even more profound existential question however was put forth in 1956 by Frankie Lymon and the Teenagers, but even that is rather easily answered by evolutionary biology.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/q96ylFiQK_I" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


Okay, why does this "alert" not exist as just a signal such as a blinking light on a dashboard of your car?

The need for a signal is just to warn you to tend to some issue that needs fixing or remedying. Theoretically without pain, you would think the quality of life would be of such high value, tending to such an alert would become first priority if it threatened your existence, or the ease of. So from that you could ascertain that pain and agony are not required in the form that we people sense it. In fact, it would if anything, cause slower reaction, and the pain itself would become the quantity of highest concentration, rather than upon the cause of the alert itself. The pain/alert system in the form that we humans sense it, is IMO obsolete an actually contributes moreso to our failures rather than contributing to our survival. That's a little black and white (and could be explored further) but you can probably see what I'm getting at.


Edited by Clarkkent (01/03/13 10:51 AM)

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#484693 - 01/03/13 06:22 PM Re: The 10 Commandments [Re: Clarkkent]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11561
Loc: New England, USA
Originally Posted By: Clarkkent
Okay, why does this "alert" not exist as just a signal such as a blinking light on a dashboard of your car?
[...] The pain/alert system in the form that we humans sense it, is IMO obsolete an actually contributes moreso to our failures rather than contributing to our survival.


Because that's not how traits biologically develop. To quote Professor Richard Dawkins in his book "The Greatest Show on Earth":

Theoretically, the equivalent of a little red flag could painlessly be raised somewhere in the brain, whenever we do something that damages ourselves: pick up a burning hot coal. An imperative admonition, “Don’t do that again!”, or a painless change in the wiring diagram of the brain such that, as a matter of fact, we don’t do it again, would seem (on the face of it) enough. Why the searing agony? The agony can last for days, and from which the memory may never shake itself free? What’s wrong with having a little red flag?
[...]
Just as the desire to be slim can overrule hunger, it is clearly possible to over-rule the desire to escape pain. Torture victims may succumb eventually, but they often go through a phase of enduring considerable pain rather than betray their comrades or their ideology. In so far as natural selection can be said to “want” anything, natural selection does not want individuals to sacrifice themselves for the love of a country or for an ideology. Natural selection is “against” individuals over-ruling the warning sensations of pain. Natural selection “wants” us to survive, or more specifically, to reproduce, and be bowed to country or ideology. As far as natural selection is concerned, little red flags will be favored over if they are never over-ruled.

Now, despite philosophical difficulties, the instances where pain was over-ruled for non-Darwinian reasons (reasons of loyalty to country, ideology etc.) would be more frequent if we had a “red flag” in the brain rather than real, intolerable pain. Suppose genetic mutations arose so that people could not feel the excruciating agony of pain but relied upon a “red flag” system to keep them away from bodily damage. It would be so easy for them to resist torture, they would promptly be recruited as spies. Except that it would be so easy to recruit agents prepared to bear torture that torture would simply stop being used as a method of extortion. But, in a wild state, would such pain-free, “red flag” mutants survive better than rival individuals whose brains do pain in earnest? Would they survive to pass on the genes for “red flag” pain substitutes? Even setting aside the special circumstances of torture, and the special circumstances of loyalty to ideologies, I think we can see that the answer might be no.
[...]
Even if a “red flag” system in the brain could be made effective, there seems to be no reason why natural selection would positively favor it over a real pain system just because it is less unpleasant. Natural selection is indifferent to the intensity of suffering. And, just as we should expect if the survival of the fittest underlies the world of nature, the world of nature seems to take no steps at all to reduce the sum total of suffering.


In short, if you can't feel pain, or your pain signalling system is such that you might be reluctant to react to danger, then you increase your likelihood of getting harmed or damaged, which in turn lowers your chances of reproducing and passing that trait on.
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http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
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#484701 - 01/03/13 10:15 PM Re: The 10 Commandments [Re: Bill_M]
John Prophet Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 995
Loc: My suburban lair
Originally Posted By: Bill_M
In short, if you can't feel pain, or your pain signalling system is such that you might be reluctant to react to danger, then you increase your likelihood of getting harmed or damaged, which in turn lowers your chances of reproducing and passing that trait on.

So in other words, pain is supposed to be unpleasant? And the very fact that we would like to eliminate it or otherwise avoid it, means that it's doing its job? grin

It's also interesting to note that biology tends to encourage us to do certain things with pleasure, just as it discourages certain things with pain. Two obvious examples are eating and sex. Since these two activities are essential for survival and reproduction, they tend to be considered almost universally enjoyable.

As was pointed out in Bill_M's Dawkins quote, nature in general is not particularly concerned with reducing our suffering. From that perspective, all that matters is our ability to survive and reproduce. Our "quality of life", as we define it, doesn't factor into this system at all. This is probably why there are many things that can cause us a great deal of discomfort and pain, even though our lives may not necessarily be threatened. You could say that this is nature's way of erring on the side of caution.
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#484713 - 01/04/13 06:59 AM Re: The 10 Commandments [Re: Venator]
Ghorth Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 31
Loc: Warcelona
I normally tend to ignore such statements written wherever. Just let them be happy in their own ignorant condition of slaves.

H.S.
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#484760 - 01/05/13 03:18 AM Re: The 10 Commandments [Re: Ghorth]
Clarkkent Offline


Registered: 11/17/12
Posts: 8
Loc: Illinois
Not trying to be rude, but hey if a person is happy, calling that person a slave is.......well not really living the life of a slave is it? lol I'm sure there are Masters out there that are as if not unhappier out there than an abused slave. We're all slaves anyway. Hell, at the very least we all have to deal with road traffic, obey laws, and well be somewhat courteous to people in the world. At what point are you, or are you not a slave? I'd say the difference is, how many of these things get to you or feel unfair, if they feel fair more often than not...that's pretty decent. Anyway, sorry, just this whole slave vs. servant vs. master thing gets a little blurry lol

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#484848 - 01/07/13 03:02 AM Re: The 10 Commandments [Re: Clarkkent]
Ghorth Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 31
Loc: Warcelona
Yeah, of course... that's why I always try to avoid these kind of discussions and I agree that we're all slaves in any way, but at least we satanists are aware of it (a lot of people don't) and, some of these "slaveries" are unavoidable, aren't they? So there's two options: either you accept them as they are and try to cope with it, or you live a life full of anger and disillusion. That's not very self-indulgent, to be honest.
In any case, there's still a lot of people out there who have not opened their eyes and have not chosen for themselves, as they live a life in which other people are appointed to think for them. They live very happy in their fake, artificial world of beliefs but, hey! my hamster inside a metal cage is for sure also very happy living his easy life of eating, shitting and sleeping without knowing he's enslaved, right? At least, we Satanists have identified all options, chosen how to live and have understood that there is no higher god than ourselves, no higher goal to achieve than our self-indulgence... Punish self-indulgence and force an individual to deny it's own "divinity", if so, is to me the highest art of slavery.
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#484849 - 01/07/13 03:39 AM Re: The 10 Commandments [Re: Venator]
Psichya Offline


Registered: 01/07/13
Posts: 8
Loc: Colorado
One major complaint about the Ten Commandments is the one that states "Thou shall not covet.... Thy neighbor's slaves or his wife." Meaning that people are property as well as women. "Thy neighbor" is spoken of the man of the houshold while his wife is listed as his property.

The other major problem I have with the ten commandments is that rebellious children are punishable by death. The same people who are against killing fetuses who are not yet able to support life on their own are for killing children, full grown human beings, who disagree with what their parents have to say? In that case, if I was a child of fundamentalist christians who went with everything the bible said, I would have already been murdered by them ... in my words, blasphemy!
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