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#486129 - 02/06/13 09:47 PM Like kinds produces like minds.
Nahash Prince Offline



Registered: 01/15/03
Posts: 197
Loc: Currently at large
It can be rational to think that a tree should produces fruits after its own likeness .
But one could argue differently.
I have taken the notion to examine that ideology . Should a tree produce its kind? Of course.
However, let's look at what tree am I making reference to . So I refer a tree as to a human being. I have noticed the often use of trees and human
beings when we relate to diversity .
Now I have become hardpressed upon the idea that just like trees , human beings will produce like kinds
When I say like kinds , I am referring to like minds. One would presume the same , right ? So , can one be born of a different tree? Could this be possible ?
_________________________
"Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than
those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his "divine spiritual and intellectual
development", has become the most vicious animal of all!"...Dr. La Vey

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#486145 - 02/07/13 03:38 AM Re: Like kinds produces like minds. [Re: Nahash Prince]
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 10574
Loc: England
I'm not entirely certain what you're getting at.

Genetically, we are spawned of our biological parents. Whoever they might be. No getting around that. There is no chance of cross-polination as there is with flowers.

But we are each born in a different time to our parents, a different social Milieu. Our experiences will be different and therefore we develop our own psyche and our own set of tools for survival in accordance with our surroundings.

So no. Although we learn certain behaviours from our parents, our minds are our own and we are not replicants.
_________________________
"u.v.ray blends the dark street poetry of Nelson Algren with the swagger and style of a young Iggy Pop."

www.uvray.moonfruit.com





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#486152 - 02/07/13 09:02 AM Re: Like kinds produces like minds. [Re: Drake_Bamboozle]
Nahash Prince Offline



Registered: 01/15/03
Posts: 197
Loc: Currently at large
Greetings sir . Indeed my question has been answered. I often hear , "born a Satanists," but yet many would make claims opposing the idea of being born a Satanist.
Can one truly be born a Satanist given the reality of having a christian family and believing at one point the christian doctrine ? Can one make such a claim? At what point was one , "born a Satanist?"
These questions are for anyone to answer.
_________________________
"Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than
those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his "divine spiritual and intellectual
development", has become the most vicious animal of all!"...Dr. La Vey

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#486154 - 02/07/13 09:28 AM Re: Like kinds produces like minds. [Re: Nahash Prince]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11561
Loc: New England, USA
Originally Posted By: Youngwolf
Can one truly be born a Satanist given the reality of having a christian family and believing at one point the christian doctrine ?

The notion that Satanists are "born, not made" doesn't mean that all Satanists have been in perfect philosophical alignment with Satanism since birth. Surely you've read the chapter "The God You Save May Be Yourself" from The Satanic Bible? At the very least, "born, not made" means that when a Satanist has finally found out about Satanism and embraced the title, it's because they find find a natural resonance with it. At the very least, "Born, not made" is a reminder that this isn't a religion that anybody can just convert to via willful devotion.

Being raised by Christian parents with Christian dogma (or with any other particular religion or ideology, for that matter) is obviously no guarantee that the child is going to have the same belief system as an adult. This is evidenced by the fact that there are so many ex-Christians in the world, not to mention ex-Muslims or ex-[whatever one's parents are].

Quote:
These questions are for anyone to answer.

Well, no kidding. That's why they're in the "General Discussion" section. wink
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Reverend Bill M.

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#486160 - 02/07/13 11:41 AM Re: Like kinds produces like minds. [Re: Nahash Prince]
Robert K Stock Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/22/12
Posts: 39
Loc: El Reno, Oklahoma
When I told my girlfriend that I was born a Satanist, she refused to even listen to an explanation of what I meant.

Although raised as a devout Christian,the way I have been living my life for the past twenty years is in harmony with the principles of the Church of Satan. During those twenty years I had no idea that the Satanic Bible spelled out my personal philosophy of life. That is how I discovered I was born a Satanist. But my explanation fell on deaf ears. My gilrfriend still thinks I meant that my family were secret Devil worshippers before my birth.

I think that conversion to Satanism is impossible because a person has to have a certain set of values and a world view already in place before coming in contact with Satanism.


Edited by Robert K Stock (02/07/13 11:44 AM)

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#486171 - 02/07/13 02:40 PM Re: Like kinds produces like minds. [Re: Bill_M]
Nahash Prince Offline



Registered: 01/15/03
Posts: 197
Loc: Currently at large
Thank you sir , I understand.
_________________________
"Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than
those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his "divine spiritual and intellectual
development", has become the most vicious animal of all!"...Dr. La Vey

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#486174 - 02/07/13 03:18 PM Re: Like kinds produces like minds. [Re: Robert K Stock]
Nahash Prince Offline



Registered: 01/15/03
Posts: 197
Loc: Currently at large
Robert, I see your point . I can see how it can be hard to explain your stand on Satanism to your love ones of christian dogma.
However, the impossibility of helping them understand,not converting them, about Satanism; is possible.
I think there are no one method to do so , but a complexity of rational thoughts and communications to deconstruct the mind to the point the mind is able to take facts, experiences, and evidences to see the possibilities of a World without a god or gods.
This can take several years to accomplish with someone. For a person to reach such conditions mentally , will make them god of themselves mentally, it would make them individualized.
It is possible for every human , but for every human , it is impossible.
_________________________
"Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than
those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his "divine spiritual and intellectual
development", has become the most vicious animal of all!"...Dr. La Vey

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#486178 - 02/07/13 04:37 PM Re: Like kinds produces like minds. [Re: Nahash Prince]
anna Offline


Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 219
Loc: Poland
Hello. I'm really pleased to see you again. I thought you gave up the internet altogether. smile

Quote:
I think there are no one method to do so , but a complexity of rational thoughts and communications to deconstruct the mind to the point the mind is able to take facts, experiences, and evidences to see the possibilities of a World without a god or gods.


I see you switched to some postmodern discourse. Deconstruction of the mind, it sounds like an epic project. Good luck with this, just be careful not to drive anyone nuts. grin

Seriously, it is easier to convert someone to another monotheistic religion than to atheism. Many people who gave up their religion in favour of atheism were not really religious from the very beginning. They often practiced their religion, because of their parents' pressure or because of the tradition. Like in Poland, on Christmas and Easter nearly everybody goes to church, even when they do not believe, because they are used to it, because they do not want to disappoint their families, because it is a national tradition. However, when someone has a need for god or gods and feels comfortable with it, he will not exchange it for atheism or Satanism. Why? Because he would start having mental problems; insecurity, the feeling of emptiness, fear, remorse and so on.

Quote:
the impossibility of helping them understand,not converting them, about Satanism; is possible...It is possible for every human , but for every human , it is impossible.


_________________________
Just gonna stand there and watch me burn. Well that's alright because I like the way it hurts.

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#486179 - 02/07/13 05:34 PM Re: Like kinds produces like minds. [Re: anna]
Nahash Prince Offline



Registered: 01/15/03
Posts: 197
Loc: Currently at large
Greetings my lady . Should have known you would further my argument ;-). First , let me deeply explain myself . The possibility of mental deconstruction is for all human beings in theory. However, as you have mention, it is not mentally healthy for some. Therefore , it is impossible for all human beings to be mentally deconstructed from their religious ideology .
Thus we have some for reasons I can not
explain , that are born Satanist/atheist . This is much like someone who no matter what they are told by society, will choose to have an alternative lifestyle.
They would say , " I was born this way." How much different are the Satanists/atheists? In the aspect of choices in an individual's life , there is no difference.



explain
_________________________
"Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than
those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his "divine spiritual and intellectual
development", has become the most vicious animal of all!"...Dr. La Vey

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#486226 - 02/09/13 01:07 AM Re: Like kinds produces like minds. [Re: Nahash Prince]
Dax9 Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 772
Loc: near Baton Rouge, LA
My father was most probably a de facto Satanist, but he was too old and square to ever think of himself as anything but a traditional Catholic and "American".

My mother was born in Honduras and was raised heavily Catholic, but even she has learned to accept my beliefs for what they are, most probably because I don't flaunt them externally.

On the surface it appears that I am not much like my parents, but this is not really accurate. I like to think that I have evolved from them into someone more elite.
_________________________
"The difference between the man or woman who's a practicing Satanist, from an identity Satanist is that the practicing Satanist looks at the picture, while the identity Satanist studies the frame."
-- Anton Szandor LaVey

"Anyone without a sense of humor is too pretentious to be a good magician."
-- Anton Szandor LaVey

Life Everlasting

World Without End





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#486247 - 02/09/13 03:28 PM Re: Like kinds produces like minds. [Re: Dax9]
Nahash Prince Offline



Registered: 01/15/03
Posts: 197
Loc: Currently at large
An excellent and very intelligent reply sir . HS !
_________________________
"Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than
those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his "divine spiritual and intellectual
development", has become the most vicious animal of all!"...Dr. La Vey

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#486417 - 02/12/13 07:50 PM Re: Like kinds produces like minds. [Re: Nahash Prince]
Emilio Largo Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 02/12/13
Posts: 122
If you'll indulge me in some flamboyance, I'll suggest we go through three levels of Hell, bearing in mind that Hell in this metaphor is a place we like, given the sort of people we happen to be.

The first level, right off the bat, stops us from being mental clones of our parents, because the first level is thinking for ourselves. We all insist on that. Now of course it is possible to think for oneself yet not arrive at the perspective we happen to share, and that's why the process isn't yet complete at the first level.

At the second level we find ourselves applying our eyes and ears, our logical minds, our empathy, our sense of paradox, and our nausea, to life as we bump into it - and we find it wanting. So very wanting, do we find the universe, that we dismiss any notion of a governing supreme intelligence. So very wanting, do we find man, that we dismiss any notion of an angelic or celestial component to human nature. Here we have the atheistic misanthrope in full bloom, whom at this stage we would probably name a de facto Satanist.

One more level remains. Here we find ourselves taking notice of the fact that we are atheistic misanthropes, and deciding that we approve of this, in fact we delight in it. Self-aware, proud, and, crucially, in possession of an innate sense of drama, we are preconditioned to embrace some flamboyant metaphor to encapsulate the essence of what we've discovered in ourselves. The Satanic Bible or some other Satanic text provides us with just the thing, and we nod our heads, perhaps fiercely, perhaps gleefully, and hail Satan by our own name, this Satan whose flesh is our own, whose birth was our own and whose death will one day be our own.
_________________________
Elite because we smell the bullshit and do not deign to wallow in it.

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#486419 - 02/12/13 09:35 PM Re: Like kinds produces like minds. [Re: Emilio Largo]
Meneyazwun Offline


Registered: 01/16/13
Posts: 12
Loc: Michigan
Your excessive use of the word 'we' tries to force me into a specific mold that doesn't really suit me.

For me, the primary determinant of my current worldview is based on my observation that everything I've experienced, and all that I am, is utterly physical (or carnal, if you prefer that word). Thus, I will live my life for myself and enjoy my evanescent existence.

I think you've made the mistake of thinking that everyone arriving at a particular destination takes the same path. I can certainly read people and get an idea of their motivations and opinions, but I never make the mistake of pretending I know how their personalities formed.

If your intention was to get under my skin a little, congratulations! You've rubbed me the wrong way, not that I don't appreciate the opportunity to discuss conflicting ideas.

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#486425 - 02/13/13 12:34 AM Re: Like kinds produces like minds. [Re: Meneyazwun]
Emilio Largo Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 02/12/13
Posts: 122
So then, Meneyazwun, for you being a Satanist boils down (primarily) to being a materialist born of empiricism, who turns to egoism because it's the logical thing to do? Don't you find you're missing some dimensions of experience common to many of us? When you read The Satanic Bible, is what you find there (primarily) materialism, empiricism, and egoism? Would Ayn Rand ever have written anything like The Satanic Bible? I'm not referring to the style, but to the arguments that were being made, by whatever means, including poetry.
_________________________
Elite because we smell the bullshit and do not deign to wallow in it.

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#486456 - 02/13/13 08:24 PM Re: Like kinds produces like minds. [Re: Emilio Largo]
Meneyazwun Offline


Registered: 01/16/13
Posts: 12
Loc: Michigan
Ah, yes, I lack the necessary feeling, the emotional response, the outcry against the flawed perceptions of sheep that seek to box me in, to make me like them rather than what I am, a creature that realizes his true nature and revels in it.

Dr. LaVey was a master of both logical and emotional appeal, and thus he was able to found a persistent religion, a philosophy that both nods to the natural world and incites excitement with regard to the implications of a purely carnal existence.

I understand how these feelings can come about, but I don't experience them. I am a limited, emotionally stunted individual, but what I lack in feeling I make up for in logic, which makes me very good at what I do for a living, which is generating hypotheses and designing and carrying out scientific experiments. I look upon my results with a cool head, and when I find my ideas are correct, I experience genuine surprise and suspicion, rather than excitement.

In the end, I am probably not like you, and yet we likely share many of the same opinions on theism and herd mentality. We've arrived at the same destination (for the most part) but by different paths.

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