Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#486190 - 02/07/13 11:08 PM The "Magic" of Satanism
bobby.1989 Offline


Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 6
Loc: Montana, USA
I have a copy of The Satanic Bible and I've read it about three times. I agree with nearly all of it. However, I find it difficult to believe in magic, curses, etc. I cannot believe in something without evidence which is ultimately why I'm an atheist.
Anton Szandor LaVey claims that Jayne Mansfield died in a car wreck as an outcome to a spell/curse that he had put on Sam Brody. Now, I don't want to put down Anton LaVey in anyway because I have an absolute respect for him but my mind can't just seem to accept the whole magic thing.
What are your views on the subject and is it possible to be a Satanist and oppose the idea of the belief in magic?
_________________________
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace."
-Thomas Paine, 1776

Top
#486192 - 02/07/13 11:30 PM Re: The "Magic" of Satanism [Re: bobby.1989]
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 10567
Loc: England
>> is it possible to be a Satanist and oppose the idea of the belief in magic? I cannot believe in something without evidence <<


Why oppose it? It's probably more useful to approach it with an open mind, either way.

The only way you will gather evidence is by exploration. If you find nothing in it for yourself then there is no obligation to practice it, no.
_________________________
"u.v.ray is truly an outsider, yet he's also a member of a club that includes greats such as Bukowski, Fante, and Salinger"

www.uvray.moonfruit.com





Top
#486193 - 02/07/13 11:39 PM Re: The "Magic" of Satanism [Re: Drake_Bamboozle]
bobby.1989 Offline


Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 6
Loc: Montana, USA
Okay, oppose may not have been the right word for it. I'm more of a natural world type of guy though, not a supernatural type. If I were to believe in the supernatural then I would probably believe in God and in the Bible.
I follow science though. Science is knowledge. What does science have to say about the supernatural world? Not much, except that it's not real.

Thanks for the reply though, it's appreciated.
_________________________
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace."
-Thomas Paine, 1776

Top
#486194 - 02/07/13 11:44 PM Re: The "Magic" of Satanism [Re: bobby.1989]
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 10567
Loc: England
Originally Posted By: bobby.1989
Okay, oppose may not have been the right word for it. I'm more of a natural world type of guy though, not a supernatural type. If I were to believe in the supernatural then I would probably believe in God and in the Bible.
I follow science though. Science is knowledge. What does science have to say about the supernatural world? Not much, except that it's not real.
Thanks for the reply though, it's appreciated.



We are not talking about the supernatural.

I don't have the energy to offer you by way of lengthy explanations. But if you don't want to look into the matter further, then don't. You're not going to hauled before the courts of the royal palace of hell for it.
_________________________
"u.v.ray is truly an outsider, yet he's also a member of a club that includes greats such as Bukowski, Fante, and Salinger"

www.uvray.moonfruit.com





Top
#486196 - 02/08/13 01:23 AM Re: The "Magic" of Satanism [Re: bobby.1989]
Teufelhund Offline


Registered: 05/10/11
Posts: 117
Loc: Kansas
It all depends on your definition of magic.

Building on what Reverend Bamboozle posted, I suggest that you read Satanism: The Feared Religion by Magus Gilmore, for a clear delineation between the concepts of supernatural and super-normal. Also, since you have read The Satanic Bible, deeper study into Lesser and Greater Magic might be helpful.

Have you ever used smooth talk or calculated actions to manipulate another person? That is what Anton LaVey was referring to as Lesser Magic in The Satanic Bible. In regard to proof...your proof is that person doing what your words and actions moved them to do. I was skeptical about Greater Magic at first, and quickly realized that merely scratching the surface does the concept no justice. Study, study, study...and don't knock it until you try it.

You do not have to believe in magic, but isn't being open minded part of what drove you toward choosing to call yourself an atheist?

Top
#486204 - 02/08/13 09:57 AM Re: The "Magic" of Satanism [Re: bobby.1989]
Callier Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/30/06
Posts: 2196
Originally Posted By: bobby.1989

I follow science though. Science is knowledge. What does science have to say about the supernatural world? Not much, except that it's not real.


Science is magic explained. And nature itself is super already. If you're implying that magic has something to do with the spiritual then you got it wrong.
_________________________
$$$ Get Rich or Die Tryin' $$$

Top
#486209 - 02/08/13 01:32 PM Re: The "Magic" of Satanism [Re: bobby.1989]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11547
Loc: New England, USA
Originally Posted By: bobby.1989
However, I find it difficult to believe in magic, curses, etc. I cannot believe in something without evidence which is ultimately why I'm an atheist.

Well Satanists are all atheists too, so obviously you're missing the boat here. If you feel you need other people to validate each and every experience of your own life, then I'd say you have far bigger problems that go beyond the ritual chamber.

In having read The Satanic Bible three times, surely you recall "The definition of magic, as used in this book"? And further down that "It is purely an emotional, rather thin intellectual, act"? What part of this don't you get? The introduction to the book also says "Herein you will find truth -- and fantasy. Each is necessary for the other to exist; but each must be recognized for what it is."

Again, if you have some sort of compulsion to externally validate everything, and can't knowingly suspend disbelief for even 20 minutes, then I can't imagine you're enjoying much of life in the first place. How do you even watch a movie, or read any work of fiction, or "lose yourself" in a great piece of music? If you HAVE done these sorts of things and enjoyed them, then why can't you do it with a pair of black candles and Sigil of Baphomet on the wall?

Quote:
but my mind can't just seem to accept the whole magic thing.

You should really ask yourself why, then make sure you're not making rationalizations based on misconcpetions. See above.

Quote:
is it possible to be a Satanist and oppose the idea of the belief in magic?

In short, no. This isn't because there are some sort of demands to believe in supernatural claims, as you erroneously have assumed. It's also not the case that formalized ritual is a requirement for all Satanists. Rather, when you look at the reasons why people such as yourself want to immediately reject it, there's some conflict there with core Satanic philosophy. It seems silly and self-defeating to insist you can't "believe in something without evidence", without even bothering to try something for yourself. It's rather like concluding a band can't possibly be appealing to you without ever first hearing one bit of their music for yourself.
_________________________
Reverend Bill M.

http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
New hour every week. Download the mp3 now!

http://www.aplaceformystuff.org: Tales of Combat Clutter and other Adventures

(Wenn du Google's ‹bersetzer verwendest, um diese Worte zu lesen, dann bist du ein Arschloch.)

Top
#486210 - 02/08/13 01:44 PM Re: The "Magic" of Satanism [Re: Bill_M]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11547
Loc: New England, USA
_________________________
Reverend Bill M.

http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
New hour every week. Download the mp3 now!

http://www.aplaceformystuff.org: Tales of Combat Clutter and other Adventures

(Wenn du Google's ‹bersetzer verwendest, um diese Worte zu lesen, dann bist du ein Arschloch.)

Top
#486675 - 02/19/13 06:10 PM Re: The "Magic" of Satanism [Re: Bill_M]
Reptile Offline


Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 8
Loc: Brazil
Im found myself a satanist recently and my first impression was "why do they need this magic stuff?". The ideology is great, so why bother? Maybe is just to keep the only-science-matters-people away, i don't know. I think i understand the nature of the rituals, the emotional power involved, but personally i don't think i need candles and baphomet pictures to achieve it.

Some pray to god, some meditates, some light candles, i mean there's lots o paths to the same goal, wich i guess it's to empower yourself to achieve goals and fight enemies.

This "i don't believe in things without evidence" talk is so empty. You are every evidence you need to anything, otherwise you are just another sheep.
_________________________
I'm the Lizard King. I can do anything.

Top
#486690 - 02/19/13 10:50 PM Re: The "Magic" of Satanism [Re: bobby.1989]
Emilio Largo Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/12/13
Posts: 122
Suspension of disbelief facilitates the catharsis that ritual is designed to enable. I would think it obvious, then, that raising empirical questions about material efficacy is counterproductive - so obvious, in fact, that to avoid banality I'll add this: For the eternally skeptical mind, deliberate suspension of disbelief provides, all by itself, a welcome relief - especially when we live in a society that constantly bombards us with so much bullshit that our skeptic muscle is continually flexed.
_________________________
"Like your friend you've been a little too clever, and now you are caught!"

Top
#486730 - 02/20/13 06:15 PM Re: The "Magic" of Satanism [Re: Reptile]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11547
Loc: New England, USA
Originally Posted By: reptile
Im [sic] found myself a satanist recently and my first impression was "why do they need this magic stuff?". The ideology is great, so why bother?

This is explained quite adequately in The Satanic Bible. Do you own it? Have you read it?

Quote:
I think i understand the nature of the rituals, the emotional power involved, but personally i don't think i need candles and baphomet pictures to achieve it.

As The Satanic Bible explains, no, one does not necessarily need the formal ritualistic trappings to get the same desired results. However, as I've said before, I have noticed that just about all people who are quick to eschew formalized ritual are usually either too irrationally self-conscious to put themselves into that state, or too lazy and disorganized to put some tools together.

Quote:
Some pray to god, some meditates [sic], some light candles, i mean there's lots o paths to the same goal,

But as The Satanic Bible clearly explains, there's a huge world of difference between the apprehensive nature of prayer, and formal Satanic ritual. They're not analogous to each other.
_________________________
Reverend Bill M.

http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
New hour every week. Download the mp3 now!

http://www.aplaceformystuff.org: Tales of Combat Clutter and other Adventures

(Wenn du Google's ‹bersetzer verwendest, um diese Worte zu lesen, dann bist du ein Arschloch.)

Top
#486735 - 02/20/13 09:27 PM Re: The "Magic" of Satanism [Re: Bill_M]
RMerciless Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 02/08/06
Posts: 308
Loc: Washington, DC
I would just add that the "magic" of ritual is what makes Satanism a religion and not simply a philosophy, world view or even drama club. Magistra Blanche Barton laid this out really well in an article on this topic in issue #129 of the Cloven Hoof. That essay alone is worth the purchase of the back issue. Get it. Read it.

On the issue of skepticism with regard to "belief" in the efficacy of magic, that is totally understandable. Accept nothing on faith. But, I tend to recommend that Satanists who have never performed ritual to take the plunge and give it a try. Belief or no. Temporarily suspend that disbelief. Pretend you believe. And try it. A couple of times. If the magic of it does not manifest itself to you, well, then you can at least say you've tried it.
_________________________
Robert the Merciless
Washington, DC
Rabid Crow Arts & Graphics - Selling devilish art to wear and to hang
Lucifer Muse- My Dark / Ritual Music Project

Top
#486766 - 02/21/13 08:09 PM Re: The "Magic" of Satanism [Re: bobby.1989]
VanTheMan Offline


Registered: 02/20/13
Posts: 3
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: bobby.1989
I cannot believe in something without evidence which is ultimately why I'm an atheist.


Well for me it works. Ofcourse, and that's what some people fail to understand, Greater and Lesser Magic must go hand in hand. If you stay in your bed nothing will happen, nothing will change..at all, no matter how many rituals you have performed.
It's like when you play a game of tennis. You may have trained and prepared yourself really well for it but you still have to play the game and use all of your skills and experience in order to win it.

HS
_________________________
In heaven, all the interesting people are missing --- Friedrich Nietzsche

Hail Satan!

Top
#488566 - 04/15/13 07:53 AM Re: The "Magic" of Satanism [Re: VanTheMan]
konglong Offline
Chinese SPAM Bot

Registered: 04/15/13
Posts: 3
Why oppose it? It's probably more useful to approach it with an open mind, either way.


_______________________
WoW Gold|Diablo 3 Gold|Guild Wars 2 gold|Diablo 3 Gold kaufen

Top
#488593 - 04/16/13 09:15 PM Re: The "Magic" of Satanism [Re: konglong]
Valtiel Offline


Registered: 03/19/11
Posts: 87
Loc: Hollywood
Be definite in your use of 'oppose' rather than 'disagree with'.

I admit at first I was extremely skeptical of greater magic when I was a little younger. But as said earlier in this thread, some things deserve exploration and study. If you are truly the scientific type, such exploration can only be positive. Either you come to the conclusion it isn't for you, and have all the extra knowledge and understanding you gained in researching it, or you find something that you actually find very enjoyable and wish to get a little more involved with. You can't lose.
_________________________
For I am the way.

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >


Forum Stats
12117 Members
73 Forums
43875 Topics
405557 Posts

Max Online: 197 @ 10/04/11 06:49 AM
Advertisements