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#492895 - 11/01/13 09:12 AM black peter
theblackgoat Offline


Registered: 08/24/13
Posts: 14
I am sick of people saying that black peter is a racist character when in fact it is just one of the images for the traditional devil like Krampus :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=5qRELtm-czY


Belsnickel or the Bear.What do you people think about it .
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#492997 - 11/04/13 10:00 AM Re: black peter [Re: theblackgoat]
Keung Ufuk Offline


Registered: 11/04/13
Posts: 4
Is it anything like the 'black face' issue that keeps popping up in Australia?

Harry Connick Jnr was not too impressed
http://youtu.be/o0qi5sJRywY


Recently a girl has an 'africa themed' party, caused some offense
http://www.vice.com/read/someone-thought-a-blackface-birthday-party-was-a-good-idea

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#493004 - 11/04/13 12:58 PM Re: black peter [Re: theblackgoat]
Bill_M Offline
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Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11648
Loc: New England, USA
Very often in cultures and mythology, the same symbol can show up in more than one place, having completely different meanings depending on the context. An obvious example is the swastika: despite the fact that it's a Hindu sign from thousands of years ago, the bottom line is that in some places (especially here in the US), people generally have an association of the symbol with Hitler and the Third Reich. Likewise, even though Zwarte Piet (Black Peter) and 19th century American minstrel shows are worlds apart from each other

I'm certainly mindful of the fact that symbols take on different meanings and different contexts, and from what little I know of the mythological character Black Peter, I don't see him as being some kind of racist statement. Likewise, I can see a swastika in Hindu artwork and know full well that it has nothing to do with Nazi Germany. At the same time though, it would be silly to use black face or swastikas these days and NOT expect some negative reactions.
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#493006 - 11/04/13 01:20 PM Re: black peter [Re: Bill_M]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
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Originally Posted By: Bill_M
At the same time though, it would be silly to use black face or swastikas these days and NOT expect some negative reactions.


True...but there are some instances that the placement of a symbol in an entirely different context pretty much diffuses any negative reaction. It may be replaced with mild confusion until the symbol is understood in the new context.

I live very near a large Indian population. Holding on to their cultural identity is understandably important to most. My wife and I were invited to an Indian engagement ceremony. As are most of these affairs, it is was LONG...but interesting. Imagine my surprise when the happy couple marched in with rocks, displaying the swastika. Of course, my consternation was short lived, since I already knew about their use of their symbol. This was the first time I saw it used ceremonially. Now I notice it every time I go to an Indian grocery store. The idea of Nazis does not enter my mind...in that context.
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#493019 - 11/04/13 05:54 PM Re: black peter [Re: theblackgoat]
Dark Passenger Offline
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Registered: 09/03/13
Posts: 311
I can't find the source anymore, but it's on the central Catholic website somewhere, that the tradition of giving children presents was only in response to their reciting prayers taught them by priests. The ones who failed were flogged instead by Santa's slave. My understanding is this is the catholic backstory for Black Peter. I don't know what surprised me more--the idea of Santa having slaves, Santa arranging children to be beaten by slaves on christmas, or the fact the Catholic web appeared not to be bothered by it in the least, and seemed somewhat proud of the story.

Then again, it's hardly the first time xians embraced something properly shameful. It's also hardly the first time whitey would leave a brother holding the bag.
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#493139 - 11/08/13 08:06 AM Re: black peter [Re: Dark Passenger]
theblackgoat Offline


Registered: 08/24/13
Posts: 14
Originally Posted By: Dark Passenger
I can't find the source anymore, but it's on the central Catholic website somewhere, that the tradition of giving children presents was only in response to their reciting prayers taught them by priests. The ones who failed were flogged instead by Santa's slave. My understanding is this is the catholic backstory for Black Peter.


I have have not heard about that Catholic tradition THANKS FOR THAT !!! I will go and try to find out more information about this on the Catholic website.Looking into this darkside of yule history is vast and I must admit very interesting !

Thanks for the info !

THANKS !!!!


Edited by theblackgoat (11/08/13 08:23 AM)
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#493146 - 11/08/13 12:05 PM Re: black peter [Re: theblackgoat]
Dark Passenger Offline
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Registered: 09/03/13
Posts: 311
You're very welcome. In addition to Black Peter, here's another friendly package from Santa you can stick in your sock and celebrate:

Sinterklaas was also the patron saint of both children and philatelists, which explains a lot about the recent Catholic Church scandals in the area of...

...underage stamp collecting!


Surprise! The word "philatelist" actually means stamp collector. I don't know how collecting stamps qualifies one for Sainthood, but it's suspicious metathesis is just begging to be fondled into a gag by a comedian.

devilchili
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#493245 - 11/11/13 04:19 AM Re: black peter [Re: Dark Passenger]
Bet'phage Offline


Registered: 11/18/11
Posts: 194
Loc: Ohio
Might you supply a source for this?
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#493273 - 11/11/13 09:43 PM Re: black peter [Re: Roho_the_Rooster]
Bill_M Offline
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Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11648
Loc: New England, USA
Originally Posted By: Roho_the_Rooster
True...but there are some instances that the placement of a symbol in an entirely different context pretty much diffuses any negative reaction. It may be replaced with mild confusion until the symbol is understood in the new context.

Sure, but the unfortunate reality is that people aren't always that smart. Again, I'm not saying that Hindus shouldn't be able to use a swastika in the west. It's just that if they do it in a way where it's getting an enormous amount of advertisement to a large, general, western population, then of course there are going to get flack from a ton of stupid westerners. Depending on what it is one is trying to accomplish, that might not be so desirable.
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#493274 - 11/11/13 10:13 PM Re: black peter [Re: Bill_M]
Dark Passenger Offline
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Registered: 09/03/13
Posts: 311
Oh come now, what kind of objectionable symbol could you make out of a black peter? grin
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#493276 - 11/11/13 10:28 PM Re: black peter [Re: Dark Passenger]
niknat Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 86
Loc: Australia
It is unfortunate that we are living in a society in which everyone is so ready to take offence to the smallest of things.

There are countless numbers of incidents whereby someone will take offence to something on grounds of race, sex, religion, social status ... you name it.

In Australia, there was a man who was frequently in the news because he tried to sue corporations over, what he claimed was, racial discrimination. So far as I know, we was unsuccessful. One of the biggest brands of cheese here is Australia is named "Coon". This was so named after the doctor who developed this particular cheese "Dr. Coon" was the mans name. "Coon" is also a racial slur here in Australia, so this man tried to sue the Coon cheese company.

He also tried to sue McDonalds over their advertising of having a tall black basketball player say that his favourite coffee was a "long black". It was in good taste, but ... again this idiot saw it as discrimination.

He even tried to have towns names changed that had the word "black" in them etc.

It has gotten to the point that if I notice someone is from a different culture, I don't even ask them their background anymore in case they take offence.
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#493278 - 11/11/13 10:37 PM Re: black peter [Re: niknat]
Dark Passenger Offline
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Registered: 09/03/13
Posts: 311
I'm just waiting for a cartoon character to take offense and fire back, "we prefer to be called 'dimensionally challenged!'"
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