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#496538 - 07/17/14 01:45 PM What/who do you think Satan is?
blutausnord666 Offline


Registered: 07/17/14
Posts: 3
Dont get me wrong, Im not suggesting Satan was a real being (though I dont think its wrong if people believe that although I dont). But in TSB and other satanic writings Ive read, they often refer to satan as a "dark force of nature".

What are these forces to you? I have my own ideas, but just curious what others thought.

If youre theistic, what does satan represent to you?

Perhaps this is another topic, but these forces of nature almost seem to be more of a pantheistic approach rather than atheistic. Would you agree?

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#496539 - 07/17/14 02:07 PM Re: What/who do you think Satan is? [Re: blutausnord666]
Robert K Stock Offline



Registered: 08/22/12
Posts: 38
Loc: El Reno, Oklahoma
I doubt if any one here would consider themselves "theistic".

To me, Satan is just a symbol of the human animal in all its' carnal glory.

In the Satanic Scriptures High Priest Peter Gilmore writes that "LaVey clearly posits a disintereseted remote force- not a personality or entity- that balances the universe. He sees it as indifferent to life forms, much as any other force such as gravity would be. It is a mechanism.... It operates without awareness of conscious beings".

I think a mechanism indifferent to life forms would rule out pantheism.

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#496540 - 07/17/14 02:25 PM Re: What/who do you think Satan is? [Re: Robert K Stock]
blutausnord666 Offline


Registered: 07/17/14
Posts: 3
Interesting. I really need to read the Satanic Scriptures.

I guess what made me think of pantheism is that the "forces of nature" seems like this all encompassing thing that rules man/animal kind. Thats probably not the best way for me to word it, but its tough to explain.

Im not theistic, but sometimes I do feel there is a force that drives the universe. But is that force something "outside of our understanding"? Im not sure.

Keep in mind that Im new to this, but the part that confuses is me is why these forces are deemed "Satanic". Can someone elaborate on that? I think I have an idea as to why, but I not 100% sure yet. And since I feel Satanism will always involve study, I would love to hear more.

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#496541 - 07/17/14 05:42 PM Re: What/who do you think Satan is? [Re: blutausnord666]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11535
Loc: New England, USA
Originally Posted By: blutausnord666
Keep in mind that Im new to this, but the part that confuses is me is why these forces are deemed "Satanic". Can someone elaborate on that?

Here's my take on this:

Humans invariably want to try to attach labels and quantify abstract things that they don't understand, particularly if the things seem to have a perceived effect on the real world. It's just our biological nature to codify like this. Concepts such as survival drive, self-assertion/will, self-advancement, skepticism, humor, etc. have historically been deemed "Satanic" by some authority or another, as they compete with traditional religious themes such as obedience, self-defeat, and piety. So rather than self-righteously try to deny the label, we take it up and make it work for ourselves.
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#496542 - 07/17/14 06:48 PM Definitions. [Re: blutausnord666]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12501
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Quote:
What/who do you think Satan is?


Originally Posted By: COS FAQ
Satan to us is a symbol of pride, liberty and individualism, and it serves as an external metaphorical projection of our highest personal potential. We do not believe in Satan as a being or person.
Source.

Originally Posted By: COS FAQ
WHAT IS “THEISTIC SATANISM”?

There is no such thing. People who believe in some Devilish supernatural being and worship him are Devil-worshippers, not Satanists. Anton LaVey was the first to define Satanism as a philosophy, and it is an atheist perspective. “Theistic Satanism” is an oxymoronic term and thus absurd. In Satanism each individual is his or her own god—there is no room for any other god and that includes Satan, Lucifer, Cthulhu or whatever other name one might select or take from history or fiction.
Source.

Read the FAQ before posting questions and you will save yourself much time and effort.

That's why it's there.

Please read it before posting questions here if you want answers that are useful.

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#496543 - 07/17/14 07:19 PM Re: What/who do you think Satan is? [Re: blutausnord666]
Mr. E. Mann Offline
<B>CoS Member</B>

Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 92
Loc: Nashville, TN
Admittedly, the word "force" can be somewhat ambiguous. What do YOU think it means?

I think LaVey used that term as a sort of catch-all word that means ANY force that is in opposition to current trends in various arenas of life; thus this collective force is labeled Satanic, since one of the original meanings of "satan" is "opposer".
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#496545 - 07/17/14 10:02 PM Re: What/who do you think Satan is? [Re: Bill_M]
Quaark Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 8786
Perfect.
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#496546 - 07/17/14 10:37 PM Re: What/who do you think Satan is? [Re: Quaark]
ookiesoup Offline


Registered: 10/11/10
Posts: 28
Loc: N. Y. USA
Satan is just the real truth --- and nothing else. Yes, Satan is unabashed pride, lust, and all, but Satan is also the way things are, that fly in the face of all religions. All God's creatures kill and feed off each other --- there's no tra-la-la unity and cosmic love. Realizing that is Satan. Nature is Satan.
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#496551 - 07/18/14 10:51 AM Re: What/who do you think Satan is? [Re: ookiesoup]
Bahamut Offline


Registered: 11/05/13
Posts: 13
Originally Posted By: ookiesoup
Satan is just the real truth --- and nothing else. Yes, Satan is unabashed pride, lust, and all, but Satan is also the way things are, that fly in the face of all religions. All God's creatures kill and feed off each other --- there's no tra-la-la unity and cosmic love. Realizing that is Satan. Nature is Satan.


Be careful with that word though. Truth. To me, Satan is quite the opposite: doubt.

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#496554 - 07/18/14 06:04 PM Re: What/who do you think Satan is? [Re: blutausnord666]
L'Horreur Online


Registered: 03/31/12
Posts: 85
Loc: New Hampshire
Originally Posted By: blutausnord666
Interesting. I really need to read the Satanic Scriptures.


Good idea. You might also check out The Origin of Satan by Elaine Pagels. She's a professor of religion and the book is about how Satan went from being basically an instrument of God (i.e., a glorified hitman; in the beginning he wasn't even named Satan, he was an angel of God called a satan, which meant "accuser" or "obstacle") to being slowly twisted into God's adversary as various religions split apart and needed a villain in the Bible to justify slaughtering each other.

As far as what Satan literally is/was, the book provides a solid foundation by a trustworthy source. As far as what he represents symbolically to Satanists, you can't go wrong with the literature provided on the Church of Satan website along with everything written by Doktor Lavey (TSB, Satanic Rituals, Satan Speaks!, and the Devil's Notebook) along with the Satanic Scriptures.
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#496556 - 07/19/14 12:08 AM Re: What/who do you think Satan is? [Re: blutausnord666]
Dax9 Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 736
Loc: near Baton Rouge, LA
You may also benefit from Magister Nemo's mp3 recording, Discovering the Satanic God .
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"The difference between the man or woman who's a practicing Satanist, from an identity Satanist is that the practicing Satanist looks at the picture, while the identity Satanist studies the frame."
-- Anton Szandor LaVey

"Anyone without a sense of humor is too pretentious to be a good magician."
-- Anton Szandor LaVey

Life Everlasting

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#496580 - 07/19/14 10:09 PM Re: What/who do you think Satan is? [Re: L'Horreur]
blutausnord666 Offline


Registered: 07/17/14
Posts: 3
Originally Posted By: L'Horreur
Originally Posted By: blutausnord666
Interesting. I really need to read the Satanic Scriptures.


You might also check out The Origin of Satan by Elaine Pagels.


Thank you! I've actually had this book on my amazon wish list for quite some time. I'll be picking it up. Can you recommend any other good books besides the obvious LaVey and Gilmore books?




Thank you all for your replies. I apologize if I was asking an amateur question. I'm still new to this and trying to learn as much as possible. I guess that I just felt that the whole "force of nature" thing could be interpreted in different ways and I was curious what others thought.

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#496621 - 07/28/14 01:03 PM Re: What/who do you think Satan is? [Re: blutausnord666]
Valtiel Offline


Registered: 03/19/11
Posts: 86
Loc: Hollywood
I take from it what very many other individuals here clearly do, the idea of Satan as a moniker or figurehead representing indulgence, enjoyment, the carnality of our existence, and making oneself happy. Many things.

The part of me who simply loves a good character though, just loves the image of the man with the coattails and the hat standing by the roadside, offering travelers the chance at glory and dreams. That incarnation of the myth is very provocative to me.
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#496639 - Today at 11:41 AM Re: What/who do you think Satan is? [Re: Valtiel]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12988
Loc: The Solid State
When I hear Satan described as "the dark force of nature," I picture the deepest and truest essence of the universe itself, which represents both the natural forces and laws that we commonly think of as "good," as well as the ones that are often considered "bad."

But ultimately, that immovable and immutable "essence" or "force" doesn't care WHAT you think of it. It just is.

Otherwise, I tend to think of "Satan" as representing the whole of human psychology and human nature--again, the so-called "good," as well as the so-called "bad."

In this vein, one of the core messages or lessons of Satanism is that when people brand something as "good" or "evil," it pays to actually look behind the curtain, and ask if this "shoe" really fits, or if the only thing the label or branding "fits" is the particular agenda of some person or group.

In actuality, many so-called "bad" things are fundamentally or essentially neutral, or they have a positive, useful, or constructive side to them. Likewise, many of the things that "the herd" or "the mob" has decided are "good" have a hidden dark side that should be acknowledged.
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#496640 - Today at 11:57 AM Re: What/who do you think Satan is? [Re: TrojZyr]
Quaark Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 8786
The analogy I like is two-pronged.

Satan is the life-force that drove some hyper-advanced alien civilization out there to achieve things so magnificent and wondrous that we can't even conceive of them, and wouldn't understand them, even if we saw them and had them explained.

And Satan is also the totality of the inexorable and immutable laws of physics that caused their star to go supernova at exactly the time it had to, and, without any warning, totally fried that civilization's planet at the height of their civilization, leaving no record they ever existed.

Both are Satan, and in that sense, "Satan" is all that there is. Taking the side of that alien civilization over the star that destroyed it, is liking cheering on your right hand while booing your left.
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