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#498216 - 02/01/15 05:49 PM Lets talk about Obesity.
tovasshi Offline


Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 1419
Loc: Banana, Canada
Are you obese? Overweight?

What is your overall opinion of the growing obesity epidemic?

I've done a lot of people watching on this topic.

Tell me, as a Satanist, what are your views on obesity.
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#498217 - 02/02/15 02:19 AM Re: Lets talk about Obesity. [Re: tovasshi]
Jupiter Offline


Registered: 03/20/09
Posts: 115
Loc: Cairo
I think it is the result of compulsion and sometimes it is genetic.

Myself? I'm a little overweight having extra fat here and there, I'm still trying to figure out how to perfect my shape as it is very important to me.

Maybe the people needs to stop and think for a moment, is that what they want? is that where they want to go?

Because it is a health problem we shouldn't take it lightly. A Satanist wants to enjoy life not be enslaved by his indulgences, Indulgence not compulsion.
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#498219 - 02/02/15 02:16 PM Re: Lets talk about Obesity. [Re: tovasshi]
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 10590
Loc: England
It's very rare, actually, for big fat bastards to be the way they are through mere indulgence.

It's more often a compulsion that has its source in a deep-rooted self-hatred or unhappiness.

Therefore I consider it to be a slow form of suicide.
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#498221 - 02/03/15 01:27 AM Re: Lets talk about Obesity. [Re: Drake_Bamboozle]
Janina Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1540
Loc: Center of my own Universe
Originally Posted By: Drake_Bamboozle

It's more often a compulsion that has its source in a deep-rooted self-hatred or unhappiness.


I would compare situation like this to drug addiction or alcoholism. It may start as harmless pleasure, but when the pleasure takes the control of your life it becomes shackle which slaves you and your mind.

Satanism may be defined as a hedonism, but I think Satanic hedonism goes more to epicurean way to control your pleasure than just mindlessly surrender to it.

I have wrote an article about this issue some year ago:

Epicurean philosophy and Atheism

http://bloodytrick.blogspot.fi/2012/03/epicurean-philosophy-and-atheism.html
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#498222 - 02/03/15 01:44 AM Re: Lets talk about Obesity. [Re: tovasshi]
Dax9 Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 800
Loc: near Baton Rouge, LA
Some folks may have a thyroid or hormonal problem that would cause them to become obese. I can sympathize for these people; in their case I presume medical/medicinal intervention would be a sound recourse.

For those who bloat up due to lack of exercise, poor diet, general sloth, and alcohol abuse I have little concern for. There is a profusion of information out there on effective diets and workout regimens that can help most anyone who has the will power and self-discipline to adhere to a suitable plan for them.

Every doctor I have consulted in the last several years has told me that the best approach to shed some pounds and keep them off is to limit your calorie intake to roughly about 1700 a day. Proper diet is perhaps even more of a factor than exercise. It's really simple math when you think about it! smile

So how do I feel about those who just let their bodies blow up like balloons through their own fault? Totally not my concern. Let them ruin their health and shorten their lives. In short -- responsibility to the responsible!

coopdevil
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"The difference between the man or woman who's a practicing Satanist, from an identity Satanist is that the practicing Satanist looks at the picture, while the identity Satanist studies the frame."
-- Anton Szandor LaVey

"Anyone without a sense of humor is too pretentious to be a good magician."
-- Anton Szandor LaVey

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#498227 - 02/03/15 04:46 PM Re: Lets talk about Obesity. [Re: Dax9]
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 10590
Loc: England
>> Totally not my concern.<<

It should be, since most morbidly fat bastards are claiming benefits paid for the tax payer because they're too fat to work.

But never too fat to fuck, as evidenced so frequently by their seven or eight (also fat) kids.

And to answer the original poster's question: no, I am not fat. I am in marvellous shape for a man of 48.
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"u.v.ray blends the dark street poetry of Nelson Algren with the swagger and style of a young Iggy Pop."

www.uvray.moonfruit.com





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#498229 - 02/03/15 06:43 PM Re: Lets talk about Obesity. [Re: Dax9]
tovasshi Offline


Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 1419
Loc: Banana, Canada
Believe it or not, thyroid or hormone conditions don't actually cause obesity. They are more likely to cause someone to be more sedentary or cause cravings, however calories in versus calories out still apply to them. Can't create mass out of nothing.
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#498232 - 02/03/15 08:14 PM Aside on your PMs. [Re: tovasshi]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12644
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Your private messaging is full.

Please empty your messages for communications in private.

Thank you.

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#498235 - 02/04/15 08:38 AM Re: Lets talk about Obesity. [Re: tovasshi]
Keyz Offline


Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 5
Loc: WV Panhandle
I am actually borderline obese. There is something I have noticed about my physique in the past 40-some years. All through high school, I could eat whatever I wanted and not gain a pound. Throughout college my metabolism started to break down and I began gaining weight. Over about 10 years I slowly gained about a hundred pounds. When I hit 40, I stopped gaining. Here is where I noticed that no matter what I did, I would remain between 285 and 300 lbs. I did 3 years of Hapkido and bottomed out around 285. When I quit that I crept back up to 290-295. In the winter, I tend to be ridiculously sedentary. My weight usually slides up to around 300 or so, then hovers there. It is my theory that everyone has an equilibrium, a weight at which the body is inclined to be despite changes in diet and exercise.

Humans are (arguably) between 60-90% water, depending on who you ask. But think about where that water comes from and what is in it. I am not trying to be a conspiracy theorist or anything, but I am certain that one of the primary determining factors in who will be subject to becoming obese lies in how DNA reacts with all the chemicals in the water for any given region. I don't think the government is trying to make us obese by introducing specific additives, but with body composition relying so largely on water it has to have an effect.

As a Satanist, I return to Satanic Statement #7 - "Satan represents man as just another animal...". Some animals are naturally fat; some are naturally skinny. Why should humans be any different? These are just my personal observations. Your results may differ.

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#498238 - 02/04/15 02:04 PM Re: Lets talk about Obesity. [Re: Drake_Bamboozle]
Dax9 Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 800
Loc: near Baton Rouge, LA
Originally Posted By: Drake_Bamboozle
>> Totally not my concern.<<

It should be, since most morbidly fat bastards are claiming benefits paid for the tax payer because they're too fat to work.


Yeah, if you put it that way, I guess I should give a damn. Good points; I hadn't thought that deep into the implications.

And to answer tovasshi: I am short and stocky, but I am certainly not fat. I go to the gym 5-6 days a week for weight training and cardio. I'm also ex-military. Overall, I do well for a 42 year old guy.
_________________________
"The difference between the man or woman who's a practicing Satanist, from an identity Satanist is that the practicing Satanist looks at the picture, while the identity Satanist studies the frame."
-- Anton Szandor LaVey

"Anyone without a sense of humor is too pretentious to be a good magician."
-- Anton Szandor LaVey

Life Everlasting

World Without End





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#498240 - 02/04/15 02:17 PM Re: Lets talk about Obesity. [Re: Keyz]
anna Offline


Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 227
Loc: Poland
Quote:
Some animals are naturally fat; some are naturally skinny.


No, actually no. Some animals are fat because humans stuff them with food. Take, for example, cats. In my neighborhood, there is a cat that can barely walk. He's that fat, although he's still cute. As he roams around freely, everyone strokes him, caresses him and gives him food. This way, he's not only fed by his owners but by other people who in their folly think that, since he has so hearty appetite, he must be permanently hungry. And sure as hell, he is.

One of the reasons for the increasing number of obese people is simply evolution, which is far behind civilization. Our bodies adapted themselves to cope with hunger periods. There were plenty of them in the past. Now, we have abundance of food, yet our bodies still store food in case of hunger. Moreover, if you go on a diet, your organism turns on the "hunger times" alarm and slows down your metabolism. This is why it's so difficult to lose weight. Plenty of illnesses are rooted in evolution and it's not only obesity, but also more serious and deadly diseases, like cancer, for example.

That doesn't mean nothing could be done about the problem. However, lots of exercise (and that also includes some pleasant activities, like walking or dancing) can work better than a very strict diet.
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#498241 - 02/04/15 02:44 PM Re: Lets talk about Obesity. [Re: anna]
Keyz Offline


Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 5
Loc: WV Panhandle
Originally Posted By: anna
Some animals are fat because humans stuff them with food.

That may generally be true, but I have also seen cats and dogs that eat like a horse and stay skinny, and animals on strict diets that look like furry little manatees.

Originally Posted By: anna
One of the reasons for the increasing number of obese people is simply evolution, which is far behind civilization.

Yes, well put. This ties in directly with genetics, though on a much larger scale.

Originally Posted By: anna
That doesn't mean nothing could be done about the problem. However, lots of exercise (and that also includes some pleasant activities, like walking or dancing) can work better than a very strict diet.

The building of muscle through exercise certainly helps the body to burn calories more efficiently. But I still think the body is predisposed to strive for that DNA-determined weight. People can certainly fight it their whole lives, but it is waiting in potentia.

I think there may be too much stress on waist size and body fat percentage anyway. There a plenty of other metrics that determine what is healthy and what isn't. That is where the focus really belongs.

PS: The BMI index is the stupidest pile of shit I have ever heard of.

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#498246 - 02/04/15 05:25 PM Re: Lets talk about Obesity. [Re: Keyz]
tovasshi Offline


Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 1419
Loc: Banana, Canada
BMI is actually pretty accurate for 99% of the population. It's only inaccurate if you are a legitimate body builder.

There is no "DNA-determined" weight. No one is genetically meant to be obese. Your body can't produce fat without feeding it the necessary calories to do so. This is basic biology.
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#498253 - 02/04/15 07:45 PM Re: Lets talk about Obesity. [Re: tovasshi]
Keyz Offline


Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 5
Loc: WV Panhandle
I think 99% is overly generous. Quetelet created it for population analysis. Physiology is way too complex to be summarized with a 2 variable formula. It may be accurate at the middle of the bell curve, I would say the majority of people. But closer to a 51% majority than a 99% majority.

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#498255 - 02/05/15 09:06 AM Re: Lets talk about Obesity. [Re: tovasshi]
Zaftig Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 3410
Fat girl here.

You are all missing the point: it's none of your fucking business.

Let me explain: If the original question is:

Quote:
Tell me, as a Satanist, what are your views on obesity.


Then my answer, as a Satanist, is that my body is not subject to the (mostly hyperbolic) opinions of others.

The strict comparison between food and drugs is that food is not illegal. It is also not unSatanic to be a fat bastard if that's what you want. The individual gets to decide. You may personally judge them, but expecting others to agree is like expecting them to adopt your political opinions. (And we know where people like that can stick it?)

But apart from that, I find the entire discussion around fat and health so ridiculously absurd, because the ostensible health focus obscures the true focus: aesthetics. It's popular to think that fat is gross. It has been framed as a loss of self-control, weak character, and generally that someone "doesn't care" about their appearance.

It's bullshit. It's about the popular aesthetics of what's "in". It's a fucking trend, and nothing more. During medieval periods it was beautiful to be fat, because it demonstrated to the world that you were wealthy, and didn't have to do physical labour. Starving peasants were thin. It was a sign of malnutrition and poverty. My point, is that notions of what's "healthy" is just another way of discussing what's the latest fad in body aesthetics.

If health were the true concern, then why is not the focus on all kinds of unhealthy behaviours? No one is approaching thin people eating junk food and making snide or aggressive comments about their "health." And even if you do think fat is gross why the overt disdain? I find the fat-haters are really self-haters, looking for a socially acceptable channel for their inner rage.

I'm not saying you have to like fat--your personal aesthetic preferences are your own--but I am saying that it's none of your business.

And newsflash to those who think fatties can't get laid: some people LIKE the fat. The fat itself IS the fetish. It's not popular to say so, but they do exist.

But apart from even all of that, my choices are mine and mine alone. They do not belong to some group Satanists-approved list of things. I've been up and down the scale many, many times, and keeping weight off is a daily, all-emcompassing, high-commitment challenge. Sometimes I've succeeded, sometimes I haven't. But I never let others dictate what they think I should look like. Because even at my thinnest, I'd still be far too fat for the fat-obsessed.

I gave up caring what other people think of my body a long time ago. Whatever shape I'm in, I accept it as is. I don't have anxiety about my shape, and I certainly don't care what other Satanists think of my body.


Edited by Zaftig (02/05/15 09:07 AM)

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