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#55144 - 09/01/04 03:03 PM Satanic Shaman?
Mars Offline
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Registered: 06/03/04
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Loc: Mid-Atlantic USA
A friend of mine who is of Native American descent read the Satanic Bible and agreed with the philosophy. I asked if he was a naturally born Satanist. He felt he was a Satanic Shaman. I’ve been told by Wiccans that they were like the Shaman so I thought this a contradiction. He said the “Great Spirit” was not a deity but a force of nature, described in Satanism. I’m not sure if this is Satanically accurate. I’m just wondering if “Satanic Shaman” is an accurate description. Just like if “Satanic Agnostic” was. Any comments?


Edited by Mars (09/01/04 04:53 PM)
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#55145 - 09/01/04 03:09 PM Re: Satanic Shaman? [Re: Mars]
C_D_McKinna Offline
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Loc: San Diego, CA
I fail to see the problem with this.
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#55146 - 09/01/04 04:18 PM Re: Satanic Shaman? [Re: Mars]
Creed Offline
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Registered: 05/21/04
Posts: 171
Loc: Behind You
Quote:

A friend of mine who is of Native American descent read the Satanic Bible and agreed with the philosophy. I asked if he was a naturally born Satanist. He felt he was a Satanic Shaman. I’ve been told by Wiccans that they were like the Shaman so I thought this a contradiction. He said the “Great Spirit” was not a deity but a force of nature, described in Satanism. I’m not sure if this is Satanically accurate. Any comments?




I guess anyone can proclaim themselves a Satanic _______ (fill in the blank). But I imagine the problems would start if they in some way try to claim this in connection with the Church of Satan.
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#55147 - 09/01/04 05:25 PM Re: Satanic Shaman? [Re: Mars]
reprobate Offline

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Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Depends on what the person means by "shaman", I suppose. Anthropologists use it specifically to mean someone who sees themself as dealing with anthropomorphic spirits. In popular culture and spirituality the term is used much more broadly, to describe almost any kind of medicine man or sorcerer. It doesn't necessarily have any specific "white magic" connotations.

I'm gonna go with C_D_McKinna on this one. If your friend sees the Great Spirit as something like how LaVey saw "God", as an impersonal force of nature, then I don't see what the contradiction is. Sounds to me like he's adapting his culture's philosophical and ritual elements to make his personal practice more stimulating, which is what greater magic is all about.
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#55148 - 09/02/04 01:38 AM Re: Satanic Shaman? [Re: Mars]
Rev_Malebranche Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 4136
Loc: Oregon
I agree with reprobate, and in addition, I'll point out an obvious link that seems somewhat relevant:

http://www.satanicapache.com/

Rev. Leyba's been drawing on his heritage and combining Native American ideas with Satanism for years.

'Shaman' is a word used loosely these days. To me it conjures up stinking San Francisco hippies who mix bong hits with shrooms and like to bang on drums a lot. This is, of course, not really Shamanism proper, and it's certainly not compatible with Satanism.

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#55149 - 09/02/04 02:00 AM Re: Satanic Shaman? [Re: Rev_Malebranche]
Jackdaw Offline


Registered: 07/11/04
Posts: 151
Loc: Clayton, California
I thought Shamans, often times, used controlled substances to ascend to other plains. Maybe not that exactly but I was reading about shamanism not too long ago and I got the impression that that wasn't particularly uncommon.
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#55150 - 09/02/04 02:27 AM Re: Satanic Shaman? [Re: Jackdaw]
Felstorm Offline
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Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 1474
Loc: Minnesota.
"I thought Shamans, often times, used controlled substances to ascend to other plains."

If by plains you meant "planes of mental conciousness", I'd have to agree and disagree. I disagree on the use of "Planes of mental conciousness". It sounds like some crap a burnout in Sedona, or Terrence McKenna, would pull out of his ass. I keep asking myself the question: Just what is it going to take to prove to people that reality is real and it exists?

Use of such things as psilocybe(sic) and Peyote cactus were, common yes. But using such a substance usually renders you at the mercy of the affects the substance is having upon your perceptions.

Ie, fucking with your brain chemistry is usually a bad idea.
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#55151 - 09/02/04 02:34 AM Re: Satanic Shaman? [Re: Rev_Malebranche]
FechoTecho Offline


Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 15
Quote:

'Shaman' is a word used loosely these days. To me it conjures up stinking San Francisco hippies who mix bong hits with shrooms and like to bang on drums a lot.




Dude, throw hot hippy girls dancing nude and I´m there, like a shot.

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#55152 - 09/02/04 09:45 AM Re: Satanic Shaman? [Re: Rev_Malebranche]
reprobate Offline

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Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
I was thinking of Rev. Leyba as I was writing, but I don't know enough about his art to be confident mentioning him in this connection. Thanks for adding this.
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#55153 - 09/02/04 03:32 PM Re: Satanic Shaman? [Re: Felstorm]
DancingintheDark Offline


Registered: 08/20/02
Posts: 745
Quote:

Just what is it going to take to prove to people that reality is real and it exists?


I just wanted to make a general observation on this question you pose. I quite often see people dismissing the idea that reality itself is an illusion, or "maya", and quite rightly too. However, there is often a misunderstanding on the nature of maya by the person doing the dismissing. What is really meant by maya is not that everything we experience is not "real", or an illusion, that would be absurd, but that it is how we perceive "reality" that is illusory. In other words, we may be making the mistake of taking concepts and ideas as concrete, literal truth, and applying them to the world "out there", thus constructing an artificial view of reality. Personally from the starting point I have given, I don't have a problem with the idea of "maya". The question though is how far one wishes to run with the theme, how far to take it down the line! I don't think anyone can deny that we can and do confuse our thoughts and perceptions with the actual truth of the matter at times, and I think an awareness of our propensity to do this can be helpful. I also understand though that the extent or degree which, for example, many of the Eastern religions state that we misperceive reality, is the other extreme and very hard for us in the West to countenance.
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#55154 - 09/02/04 08:51 PM Re: Satanic Shaman? [Re: Mars]
simasud666 Offline
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Registered: 05/22/04
Posts: 959
Loc: New York, USA
What I know about Native American Shaman is that they use weeds, bark, nuts, berries, herbs etc. for the healing of their fellow humans. Just like the Witch Doctor they use all natural things that grow including things like opium, Marijuana, shroones etc. for medicine and for spiritual enlightenment. They don't use all of these things as the herd does but instead they use them in different ways Like burning the leaves like an inscent, or in a tea, or by chewing. However the chiefs are handed the peace pipe to smoke and in it is a blend of various things and when they are done everyone is peaceful and too messed up to fight.

Being an herbalist my self I use natural things like Red Clover. This is like an opiate if you chew the leaves it will stop a tooth ache or any other aches and pains one might have. Dry and use the flower bud in a tea and you have a nice relaxing sleepy time tea. There are many weeds that grow naturally along the road ways of America and some can be found right in our back yards.

Can they be Satanic? I would have to say yes because they can use these same herbal remedies to mess someone up pretty bad or even kill with no after residue that could be found. They do forsee the future sometimes in the smoke they make in fire and they can read tea leaves etc. Just like a lot of witches can. Unlike the Witch Doctors of ole they don't harm animals unless they utilize the whole of the animal and they never harm Children because they are the future of the tribe. Hope this helps
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#55155 - 09/02/04 11:08 PM Re: Satanic Shaman? [Re: DancingintheDark]
Prince_Satanicus Offline
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Registered: 08/14/02
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I believe each persons "reality" is created by their personal perceptions of the world. We create our own reality by the way we perceive the greater whole. My reality may be very different from someone elses(and believe me it is very different) yet it is the same world we all live in and see.
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#55156 - 09/03/04 01:30 AM Re: Satanic Shaman? [Re: Prince_Satanicus]
DancingintheDark Offline


Registered: 08/20/02
Posts: 745
Quote:

I believe each persons "reality" is created by their personal perceptions of the world. We create our own reality by the way we perceive the greater whole. My reality may be very different from someone elses(and believe me it is very different) yet it is the same world we all live in and see.




I see no problem with what you think, and agree that we all perceive the world in our own way. But one has to ask, is our own personal reality founded on awareness and accurate observation of the wider world, or just a closed "box" constructed from long held assumptions and presumptions? If it is the latter then one's worldview is built on shaky ground, and could be said to be illusory or "maya".
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#55157 - 09/03/04 07:39 AM Re: Satanic Shaman? [Re: DancingintheDark]
Solomon Offline
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Registered: 10/14/03
Posts: 499
Loc: Cincinnati
Quote:

But one has to ask, is our own personal reality founded on awareness and accurate observation of the wider world, or just a closed "box" constructed from long held assumptions and presumptions?




On an individual basis, one can usually find both of your options. There are those who will see reality for what it is, but in the same breath will not have the experience to know the reality of all things. For instance, I've never been to Rome so I do not know of the lifestyles of its denizens. I can surmise through the experience I've had in traveling abroad that it is not much different from the States as far as human interaction would go. Humans will always be what they are regardless of nationality, but until I experience it I will not know

It is what separates those who "live" and those who only exist. Reality will happen regardless, bill collectors will come, food will always be an issue, the car will break down, people will die. If the neo-lunatic who speaks in tounges to the Great Beast of Blah forgets to pay his electric bill and his lights go out, so be it. If he spends all of his money on transendental plaques made from Egyptian gold and starves to death as a result, good riddance.

Responsibility to the responsible.
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#55158 - 09/03/04 08:05 AM Re: Satanic Shaman? [Re: DancingintheDark]
Prince_Satanicus Offline
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Registered: 08/14/02
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Loc: KNOXVILLE, Tennessee, (THE BLA...
That is a problem with the herdlings, they can't seem to think "outside the box".
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"The dreams of youth are the regrets of maturity"

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