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#58222 - 09/23/04 01:47 PM THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION

If you post or respond to posts here, you are obliged to write in a manner that can be understood and responded to.

This involves form and content.

Form is spelling, grammar, and punctuation. There is no excuse for lacking these basic skills. If you have a hard time with this, try writing your post in Word or whatever word-processing program that came loaded in your computer. Most of these programs are designed to correct basic errors of spelling, grammar, and punctuation.

Content is the substance of your post. Just about any comment you can make is either a judgment or a call to action.

In the case of judgment, you are stating that you agree or disagree with a statement and your reasons for agreement or disagreement.

If you disagree with someone, it is because they are uninformed (lacking information), misinformed (based on wrong information), or their reasoning is flawed (they draw wrong or erroneous conclusions from the basic information), or they are incomplete in their analysis. If you disagree with someone the burden is on you to clearly state why. There is no point in just stating “I disagree” – that is just being mindlessly contentious. If you agree with someone and find it worth saying so, it also does not hurt to state why.

In the case of a call to action, you are stating what should be done or not be done and your reasons why.

If you can’t make the effort to be understood in the first place, Don’t be surprised when you get banned.

If you just “don’t care” if your post is understood, or if you are legible or coherent to anyone reading it, then why post here in the first place? Go do something more productive with yourself, like stick a butter knife into an electric socket.

The same goes to all the lot lice that immediately jump on every lame newcomer with petty nit-picking criticism. From what I’ve observed here, 99 times out of 100 you have nothing better to offer yourself.

Kindergarten dismissed!
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#58223 - 09/23/04 02:00 PM Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION [Re: Svengali]
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 10567
Loc: England
It's a good try, Reverend Svengali, but I am afraid that for a lot of people this is just a bridge too far. I commend your efforts though.

_________________________
"u.v.ray is truly an outsider, yet he's also a member of a club that includes greats such as Bukowski, Fante, and Salinger"

www.uvray.moonfruit.com





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#58224 - 09/23/04 02:26 PM Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION [Re: Drake_Bamboozle]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Now they cannot say that they were not warned.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#58225 - 09/24/04 07:33 AM Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION [Re: Svengali]
Foxred Offline


Registered: 03/07/03
Posts: 89
Loc: .
Reverend, it crossed my mind that quite a few might be using their second language...

If I cannot read something because it it bulky and requires extensive attention, I just skip it...
_________________________
Look into Intergallactic depth

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#58226 - 09/24/04 08:30 AM Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION [Re: Foxred]
Plato Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/02/04
Posts: 61
Loc: Hong Kong
Quote:

Reverend, it crossed my mind that quite a few might be using their second language...

If I cannot read something because it it bulky and requires extensive attention, I just skip it...




But that's not an excuse for foreigners.
Those who are not good at the second-language should improve it before they use it.(not only English)

And as a foreigner, I’m always improving it.

Once I heard the Jehovah's Witness churchmen speak in Cantonese, it made me feel like my ears were raped.

So, the solution you should take is to improve it, not to loose it.
_________________________
Desire's raison d'etre is not to realize its goal, to find full satisfaction, but to reproduce itself as desire.

Slavoj Zizek

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#58227 - 09/24/04 11:57 AM Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION [Re: Foxred]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Quote:

Reverend, it crossed my mind that quite a few might be using their second language...




Language barriers are apparent and excusable.

Idiocy filtered through a language barrier is equally apparent but inexcusable.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#58228 - 09/29/04 07:08 AM Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION [Re: Svengali]
Xerx Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 02/09/02
Posts: 656
Loc: Italy
Superb post as usual. You expressed my idea.

Svengali for President!

Xerx
_________________________
smile smile

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#58229 - 09/29/04 08:03 AM Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION [Re: Xerx]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Quote:

Svengali for President!




Thank you for the sentiment, but I wouldn't want the job!
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#58230 - 09/29/04 06:18 PM Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION [Re: Svengali]
CannibalSpirit Offline


Registered: 07/09/02
Posts: 363
Loc: Lima, Perú
Thank you.
This was obvious, but necessary.
_________________________
Cannibal Spirit "I am my enemy"

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#58231 - 10/02/04 11:04 PM Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION [Re: Svengali]
Shylock Offline


Registered: 02/08/02
Posts: 307
Loc: Tiki Land
A toast to the Reverend!

Might I also add that people should cite things when they borrow from them too closely, instead of acting like the ideas were their own? Perhaps I've been writing too many research papers...damn plagiarism clauses...but people on this board should have enough respect for the folks that inspire them to give credit where it's due. Most follow through with this or indicate that they simply can't recall the source of their quotes, but still....some of the newer ones don't catch on so quickly (not a good sign).
_________________________
Pride may be worth less than safety but it's certainly worth more than convenience.

--The Royal Me

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#58232 - 10/07/04 03:29 AM Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION [Re: Shylock]
August-Wolfe Offline


Registered: 10/06/04
Posts: 144
Loc: Texas, USA
Quote:

A toast to the Reverend!

Might I also add that people should cite things when they borrow from them too closely, instead of acting like the ideas were their own? Perhaps I've been writing too many research papers...damn plagiarism clauses...but people on this board should have enough respect for the folks that inspire them to give credit where it's due. Most follow through with this or indicate that they simply can't recall the source of their quotes, but still....some of the newer ones don't catch on so quickly (not a good sign).



And here is a salute to Rev. Svengali as well. Even in impassioned debate there should be, I would think, a standard of courtesy ( I'm not a straight "A" student, maybe a "B+"). Unclear statements, improper grammar and such can lead to misinterpretation. So, well said Reverend. Timely, accurate advice.
And here's to Ginger as well. Plagiarism is an unspeakable misdeed. Almost as bad is the habit of quoting someone completely out of context. Cheers.
_________________________
"I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical.".....Thomas Jefferson

"I have as much authority as the Pope - I just don't have as many people who believe it." ...George Carlin

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#58233 - 10/09/04 06:10 AM Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION [Re: Svengali]
The_Sixth_Circle Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/06/04
Posts: 432
Loc: Hell; where else?
I agree with Svengali completely, finding it difficult to understand why people would find "talking" to other intelligent individuals in a coherent manner unimportant. Personally, I'm usually quite stringent with my use of the English language (rare for a Scot!) for I have too much respect for other posters to go on shamelessly abusing the language I enjoy speaking. In saying that, I think the odd typo or spelling/grammatical error here and there is forgiveable - constant continuance of same however, is not.

I often muse at those who say;

"I know lots of people who are very intelligent, but who are not great writers"

Oddly, I don't know any. I write down what goes through my head, thus it's a primary source of my intellect. I am not hampered by an inability to write, because I am not hampered by an inability to think. I think Dr LaVey himself said it best;

"Many people who fall back on phrases like "more than words can say", "when words are not enough", or "beyond description", simply have limited vocabularies."

Plus, if someone knew their spelling and grammar is bad yet were intelligent, surely they would have sense enough to use a spellchecker.

Just my two pence.


Edited by highland_devil (10/09/04 11:44 AM)
_________________________
Have You Met The Alien Elite? / The Sixth Circle @ Myspace

Truth, in matters of religion, is simply the opinion that has survived. - Sir Oscar Wilde

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#58234 - 10/19/04 09:51 PM Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION [Re: Svengali]
Carl_Luce Offline


Registered: 12/13/03
Posts: 41
More often than not, an audience faced with linguistic slop is enabled a more important part of practical understanding:

"The man talking to me is a careless fool."

Those failing to recognize the trumping importance of grammar and precision deserve nothing short of their unwelcoming reception.

In otherwords, don't greet a king with a high five. Your "meaning" may be lost in the process.

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#58235 - 10/30/04 03:53 PM Some people just don't get it [Re: Svengali]
Captn_Thatch Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 851
Loc: 115°49'00"W 37°14'00"N
From a website covering the topic of logical argumentative essays.

"Example One":

Even though there may be a deceiver of some sort, very powerful and very tricky, who bends all his efforts to keep me perpetually deceived, there can be no slightest doubt that I exist, since he deceives me; and let him deceive me as much as he will, he can never make me be nothing as long as I think I am something. Thus, after having thought well on this matter, and after examining all things with care, I must finally conclude and maintain that this proposition: I am, I exist, is necessarily true every time that I pronounce it or conceive it in my mind. - Rene Descartes

Translation:

"I am a blithering idiot".

Happy Halloween.
_________________________
Do what thy manhood bids thee do, from none but self expect applause; He noblest lives and noblest dies who makes and keeps his self-made laws. -Sir Richard Francis Burton

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#58236 - 10/30/04 05:19 PM Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION [Re: Plato]
Skyla Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 02/13/04
Posts: 495
Quote:

But that's not an excuse for foreigners. Those who are not good at the second-language should improve it before they use it.(not only English)




I understand your point, but on the other hand I think the best way to improve language skills is by using it. I know my english isn't perfect and how can it be when it's not my mother tongue? That doesn't necessarly mean that I have nothing to say. I try hard to avoid mistakes by using my dictionary and I often let a friend proofread before I post, but that doesn't cover every little fault. I appreciate the patience I receive from my english speaking friends. If someone isn't willing to accept a few mistakes that can't be wipped out, he should simply ignore the person and be glad to obviously never make mistakes himself.
_________________________
One life. Live it.

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