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#79146 - 02/12/05 05:01 PM You Say You're What???
crystalclear Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 02/03/05
Posts: 282
Loc: VA
Greetings to fellow LTTD members. I have a question which I'm sure will bring some controversy, but that's probably to be expected. I have been wondering how some can call themselves Satanists in one breath, and yet not 'agree' with 'all' Satanists believe? Or why must you have to 'do' something, or 'belong' to think yourself a Satanist? I realize as Satanists we are all our own people, and as such all have our own thoughts on things, but Satanism is not a 'thing', but a way of life. We are not wishy-washy like Christians, might be this week, but not on Friday; we are what we are and always will be; Satanists!

Hail Satan!
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"Those who appear most sanctified are the worst" Elizabeth I

"The important thing is not what they think of me, but what I think of them" Queen Victoria

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#79147 - 02/12/05 05:13 PM Re: You Say You're What??? [Re: crystalclear]
Elend Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 355
Loc: Netherlands
I do not ┤believe┤ anything. I either know, explore or do not care about it.

If you realize Satanists are all their own people, why do you question it.
If you question it, why do you answer your own question.

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#79148 - 02/12/05 05:18 PM Re: You Say You're What??? [Re: crystalclear]
Mars Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 06/03/04
Posts: 789
Loc: Mid-Atlantic USA
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#79149 - 02/12/05 05:34 PM Re: You Say You're What??? [Re: crystalclear]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11532
Loc: New England, USA
>>I have been wondering how some can call themselves
>>Satanists in one breath, and yet not 'agree' with 'all'
>>Satanists believe?

That's a question so good, it should be rhetorical. Obviously, Satanists are going to have their disagreements on things like politics, how Satanism is implemented in their own lives, or how Satanic concepts are seen manifested in the world. Some Satanists even have their disagreements with certain personal (and the key word here is "personal") opinions of Dr. Anton LaVey, as reflected in particular essays found in "The Devil's Notebook" and "Satan Speaks".

But I can't see how somebody can call themselves an adherant of any religion if they disagree with core parts of that religion. Every single one of the 9 Statements, 11 Rules of the Earth, and warning of the 9 Sins is eventually understood to those who are real Satanists. Even Satanists who don't formally ritualize still understand why the Satanic Bible has the 4 parts that it does.

I remember meeting a self-proclaimed Satanist many years ago who insisted that she'd "feel silly" performing any ritual (to the point where she refused to help out on a baptism ritual, even though she was right there in the room and we were short on hands). She futhermore thought that the Satanic witch "was shit" and spitefully prided herself as belonging to "none of those stupid clock types". She also made no distinction between pride in appearance and being a slave to visually pleasing the herd. So basically, she agreed with less than 40 pages of The Book of Lucifer, and that's it. Needless to say, she wasn't a Satanist. She was some animal-loving atheist into heavy metal, period.
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#79150 - 02/12/05 06:00 PM Re: You Say You're What??? [Re: Bill_M]
Noel Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 1220
Loc: Amerika
Quote:

I remember meeting a self-proclaimed Satanist many years ago who insisted that she'd "feel silly" performing any ritual (to the point where she refused to help out on a baptism ritual, even though she was right there in the room and we were short on hands). She futhermore thought that the Satanic witch "was shit" and spitefully prided herself as belonging to "none of those stupid clock types". She also made no distinction between pride in appearance and being a slave to visually pleasing the herd. So basically, she agreed with less than 40 pages of The Book of Lucifer, and that's it. Needless to say, she wasn't a Satanist. She was some animal-loving atheist into heavy metal, period.




Sort of reminds me of bad ukes (sparring opponents) when I took Aikido years ago.

One lady would not take falls, so it was basically pointless that she even showed up at all--since taking falls without getting hurt is essential to any fighting style.

She scoffed at the fundamentals but still wanted to learn Aikido. And one day Sensai just told her flat-out, "If your heart's not true, you'll never learn."

Anywho, your anecdote reminded me of that half-hearted uke, Bill_M.

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#79151 - 02/12/05 09:07 PM Re: You Say You're What??? [Re: Noel]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11532
Loc: New England, USA
>>One lady would not take falls,

Even with a padded dojo floor? Damn. Don't let Col. Akula see this post.

When I took Aikido, the Sensai would sometimes catch people looking into the wall mirrors and fixing their hair. "[sigh] Mr. Andrews, you're beautiful. Now turn around."
_________________________
Reverend Bill M.

http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
New hour every week. Download the mp3 now!

http://www.aplaceformystuff.org: Tales of Combat Clutter and other Adventures

(Wenn du Google's ▄bersetzer verwendest, um diese Worte zu lesen, dann bist du ein Arschloch.)

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#79152 - 02/12/05 09:22 PM Re: You Say You're What??? [Re: crystalclear]
Assabrah Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 2062
really, why....
you know, a lot of things are a way of life and not a fashion,but one day, adolescents will grow up and will return on their line saying :" ahaha yeah I remember...well satanism is only a lil rebellion for kids"....
well... fuck 'em?

now personally, I always been brang up in this way, and no one told me :"son, that's satanism"... that's only life in its deep meaning no?
so really, i never tried to fight to give a name on my way of life.
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#79153 - 02/12/05 09:32 PM Re: You Say You're What??? [Re: Bill_M]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12982
Loc: The Solid State
Or, what I encounter more often are people who have read or skimmed the Satanic Bible, and purportedly agreed with it, but make it clear that they cannot and will not actually apply it to their lives. Most people agree that "stupidity" is bad, and that "responsibility," is good, but the proof is in the pudding when it comes to how someone interprets those notions and then applies them in life.

And, to clarify for others in the forum, one is free to disagree with portions of the Satanic Witch, too, such as the theories posed by LaVey that are often based on his own fetishes. But, there's a deeper series of messages and lessons in the Satanic Witch that I think any Satanist can still appreciate, whether they take the individual bits of advice or not.
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#79154 - 02/12/05 10:15 PM Re: You Say You're What??? [Re: crystalclear]
tobeimean Offline


Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 57
Loc: Pacific Northwest
I come in from a bit of a different direction on this one. Xtian ideas and that "way" really are not very important since I've had more or less limited contact with it. But -- I'm coming in from exploring a lot of different modes of thought and being and I'm still new to Satanism. I call myself Satanist because I feel an inherent affinity for it, but I'm still learning an awful lot about what that means. Since I am employing a system of doubt and questioning in my exploration, I often don't agree with a concept for long periods of time -- until perhaps I understand the value of it sometime down the road. I often do then see a concept's value that I had disagreed with... When that happens I ditch my counter-productive pride and move on with the investigation...

I don't know if you ever get to the point where one day -- (boom boom)-- you can say, "I'm a Satanist!" I prefer to think when I first felt the philosophy's attraction was that day. I hope that I'll never reach the end of growing and expanding as a Satanist, however -- I would be disappointed to find there was an actual end to "the amazing maze."

Hail Satan! Hail I!


Edited by tobeimean (02/12/05 10:17 PM)
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Magical Axiom: Within the circle of its action, every word creates that which it affirms. Direct Consequence: He who affirms the devil creates or makes the devil. (Eliphas Levi)

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#79155 - 02/13/05 12:53 AM Re: You Say You're What??? [Re: crystalclear]
Assabrah Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 2062
reading this post again, it makes me think about this:

that it's not necessary to live each day saying "i am a satanist", what have we to proove?...why not just saying it so proud at the last minute of our life :" I!!! I lived as a Satanist, Hail Satan!".
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#79156 - 02/16/05 11:16 PM Re: You Say You're What??? [Re: crystalclear]
Adonis_Mendes Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 487
Loc: Here & Now
To quote the words of Popeye 'I am what I am and thats all that I am'. I don't have to believe anything that I don't want to, whether informed by another Satanist or not. I'll choose to 'believe' or better yet know what I apply myself at.

That's the beauty of being a custard that can't be nailed to any wall. A true individual-- a Satanist.

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#79157 - 02/16/05 11:45 PM Re: You Say You're What??? [Re: Bill_M]
tovasshi Offline


Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 1414
Loc: Banana, Canada
speaking of learning to fall, i had to do that last week in kung fu, my sijo and sifus always tell us the same thing which kinda fits here is "Only you know yourself and your own limits, do not push yourself too hard, but always challenge yourslef to go a little further bit by bit, you can't be expected to know or understand everything right away." and i guess thats what most of us do, take it one step at a time, if someone doesn't fully agree on something now, maybe in time they will, after a little study and understanding of other key aspects the whole thing comes together.
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#79158 - 02/17/05 12:52 AM Re: You Say You're What??? [Re: crystalclear]
Focalor Offline


Registered: 12/11/04
Posts: 392
Perhaps your problem is with those who aren't really Satanists? Most religions have a few who like the posture but don't have the backbone to support it.

Also, some things are not carved in stone. As a Satanist, it is up to that individual to constantly examine the world around him with a truly open mind and to hear all things with open ears. Open your ears, you'll hear what's going on.
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#79159 - 02/17/05 02:24 AM Re: I am a Satanist [Re: crystalclear]
Mjollnir Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/04/04
Posts: 1416
Loc: Gone
I don't see Satanism as being an identity.

I am a Satanist because I agree with the Satanic philosophy and apply it to enrich my life experience.

I've tried other shoes, and none of them fit. This is what works for me. This is the philosophy that most reflects who I am.

What other people do to fullfill their identities doesn't matter to me at all.

I don't have to try or make an effort to be what I am, as this path only draws me closer to myself. If anything, I am only becoming more of myself; more of the creature I was born to become.

This religion is a vehicle to help me to understand what I already am.

So it's not really a matter of "doing" anything or "belonging." Either you will like me or you won't. This fact will not change anything about who I am, either way.

Not all of us are going to agree on things, as we are all individuals. We all have different lives, skills, occupations, hobbies, indulgences, etc.

Before I found LTTD, I thought I was the only Satanist around. I've since come to realize that I was wrong.

Hail Satan!
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#79160 - 02/17/05 07:04 AM Re: You Say You're What??? [Re: crystalclear]
Grima Offline


Registered: 12/20/04
Posts: 328
Loc: Netherlands
Quote:

Or why must you have to 'do' something, or 'belong' to think yourself a Satanist?




Well if somebody has to behave in a way that's unnatural for them personally to be a Satanist I really don't think they're one. Fact is, Satanists are all individuals and they just happen to agree on some things. I know another Satanist that lives near my house. We can't stand eachother and we would be at eachothers throats in no time. But I respect him and leave him alone instead of trying to form a bond that simply isn't there. So does he.
So I see it as natural not to agree on everything, we're not a freaky cult that nods 'yes' to everything somebody might say or believe because he or she happens to be a Satanist. If it would be called something else I would still be a Satanist or 'cookie-freak' or whatever name it would be given.

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