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#81132 - 02/24/05 05:56 PM Re: Know your Greeks and Romans [Re: Svengali]
Noel Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 1220
Loc: Amerika
And let us not forget one of the rhetoricians: Gorgias.

He had quite a silver tongue.

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#81133 - 02/24/05 06:45 PM Re: Know your Greeks and Romans [Re: False_Messiah78]
Ceallach Offline


Registered: 12/27/04
Posts: 245
Loc: Northern Virginia, USA
I grew up soaking up as much as I could regarding the Greek/Roman myths; I read Homers works before I was in High School & they were required; I adored them, and still do. I find it dissapointing in general, the educational system nowadays; and sadly, I doubt most teens could comprehend Homer's works anymore. teaching standards aren't what they used to be.
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#81134 - 02/24/05 09:14 PM Re: Know your Greeks and Romans [Re: Svengali]
ShadowWalker Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/03/04
Posts: 85
That book list was a trip through memory lane.
I was home-schooled before it became popular, and I read many of these books without knowing they were supposed to be dry.

Plutarch's Lives opened up my curiousity to ancient Greece, its descriptions of the people, their everyday life and adventures fired my imagination.
That led me to Homer and then The Histories of Herodotus. One thing led to the other and they never seemed dull to me.

It's all in the expectation and presentation of the teacher and other children surrounding the child. If the child is around a teacher who isn't excited about the subject, or kids who are whining and acting up because they are bored, an otherwise interested child can be negatively influenced. My parents loved the stuff and made it interesting and fun.

While other kids my age were reading Beverly Cleary, I read Cicero and learned my first lessons in arguing well. Lucretius and his On the Nature of Things had me identifying myself as an Epicurean when I was in seventh grade!

Looking back on those old books now makes me see how these writings influenced my life.

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#81135 - 02/24/05 10:38 PM Re: Know your Greeks and Romans [Re: Bill_M]
man_mind Offline
Banned

Registered: 01/29/05
Posts: 957
I agree. Time spent in the class room would be a slightly stupid endeavor. You would be under-paid and you would teach only two out of ten students. The truth is in what ShadowWalker stated about the interested students surroundings, unfortunately.

I do think home schooling needs a degree, but as far as I know; according to a friend of mine who obtained a certificate in that field, it didn't take too much time or effort.

Well, if you do, good for the one you teach. I'm glad it was a compliment, but it was only meant to be honest.
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#81136 - 02/25/05 01:38 AM Re: Know your Greeks and Romans [Re: Svengali]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11560
Loc: New England, USA
>>"Mea Culpa!" [displaying my own limitations]

Actually I must confess that Sophocles is really the only one on the first list I read. Though the Plato stuff has spilled over to the math now and then. His work has the only known information on Pythagoras, I think. I also see Xtians who cite Tacitus' "Annals" in support of the idea of a historical Jesus, but a check on the dates shows that the argument is quite bogus.



"There once lived a man named Oedipus Rex.
You may have heard about his odd complex.
His name appears in Freud's index
'cause he LOVED his mother.

His rivals used to say quite a bit,
that as a monarch he was most unfit.
But still in all they had to admit
that he LOVED his mother."
- Tom Lehrer, Oedipus Rex
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#81137 - 02/25/05 11:20 AM Re: Know your Greeks and Romans [Re: man_mind]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
The Church of Satan is entirely in support of home schooling:

http://www.churchofsatan.com/Pages/MandatoryEducation.htm

I don't have children, but am self-educated with an extremely negative history with public schools, so I pay attention to educational options, just out of my own interest. There are some excellent home schooling programs along the lines of The Great Books Foundation, Hirsch's Cultural Literacy programs, and the traditional Trivium/Quadriviam approach (although the Quadrivium has expanded considerably).
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Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
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#81138 - 02/25/05 11:30 AM Re: Know your Greeks and Romans [Re: Bill_M]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Quote:

>>"Mea Culpa!" [displaying my own limitations]

Actually I must confess that Sophocles is really the only one on the first list I read. Though the Plato stuff has spilled over to the math now and then. His work has the only known information on Pythagoras, I think. I also see Xtians who cite Tacitus' "Annals" in support of the idea of a historical Jesus, but a check on the dates shows that the argument is quite bogus.




I have not read all of them but am working on it. I'm biased toward history and philosophy so I've given some of the dramatists, poets, etc. short schrift.

There are many other fantastic classics besides those on the breif list. I especially like Seutonius's Lives of the Twelve Caesars, Cicero, and Julius Caesar's works.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#81139 - 02/25/05 12:57 PM Re: Know your Greeks and Romans [Re: Svengali]
Caesar Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/01/03
Posts: 2381
and Julius Caesar's works.

And to think I almost doubted you
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#81140 - 02/28/05 08:27 PM Re: Know your Greeks and Romans [Re: Svengali]
Shylock Offline


Registered: 02/08/02
Posts: 307
Loc: Tiki Land
I've printed out a copy of this sheet with the hopes of getting around to reading some of the mentioned entries. I loved Greek Mythology as a kid, and also enjoyed a "History of Philosophy" course during college that gave an overview of the works of Plato and various other early thinkers. It's too bad people don't pay greater attention to this stuff, as I've seen from my own brief experiences the foundation you've spoken of. Having been a big fan of Ayn Rand and Nietzsche, I also see how philosophers routinely refer back to the Greeks and Romans to re-examine old ideas and arguments, something your average student of modern and/or existentialist philosophy can't handle as a result of their lack of familiarity with "old" writers.

As a side note, I'm also beginning to think that one reason for the growing myopia of most people about modern cultural values and Christianity is rooted in the fact that your average person knows of nothing beyond the way things are right now. This lack of historical grounding contributes to the conformity of thought and values that seems to be pervasive at this point in history.
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#81141 - 02/28/05 08:48 PM Re: Know your Greeks and Romans [Re: Shylock]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Quote:

I've printed out a copy of this sheet with the hopes of getting around to reading some of the mentioned entries. I loved Greek Mythology as a kid, and also enjoyed a "History of Philosophy" course during college that gave an overview of the works of Plato and various other early thinkers. It's too bad people don't pay greater attention to this stuff, as I've seen from my own brief experiences the foundation you've spoken of. Having been a big fan of Ayn Rand and Nietzsche, I also see how philosophers routinely refer back to the Greeks and Romans to re-examine old ideas and arguments, something your average student of modern and/or existentialist philosophy can't handle as a result of their lack of familiarity with "old" writers.

As a side note, I'm also beginning to think that one reason for the growing myopia of most people about modern cultural values and Christianity is rooted in the fact that your average person knows of nothing beyond the way things are right now. This lack of historical grounding contributes to the conformity of thought and values that seems to be pervasive at this point in history.




Exactly!

Satanic Sin #7. Forgetfulness of Past Orthodoxies: "Be aware that this is one of the keys to brainwashing people into accepting something new and different, when in reality it’s something that was once widely accepted but is now presented in a new package. We are expected to rave about the genius of the creator and forget the original. This makes for a disposable society." - Dr. Anton Szandor LaVey

The best Satanic argument for Cultural Literacy.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#81142 - 02/28/05 10:14 PM Re: Know your Greeks and Romans [Re: Svengali]
Kurgan Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 2441
Loc: Land of the Midnight Sun
One can also expand the argument from literature and philosophy to art and architecture citing the Ninth Satanic Sin - Lack of Aesthetics.

"It is obvious that no one can collect any money off classical standards of beauty and form most of the time so they are discouraged in a consumer society, but an eye for beauty, for balance, is an essential Satanic tool and must be applied for greatest magical effectiveness."
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