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#83104 - 03/05/05 05:19 AM Your Crystal Ball
Satanya Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/05/04
Posts: 2241
He who controls the past, controls the future; he who
controls the present, controls the past.

Sitting here taking braids off my hair whilst thinking about what Im going to say at the meeting I have to attend later on today, a feeling of DeJa-Vu took over me for a brief moment. It is interesting how decisions one makes in life can take them to completely different paths, at the time the decision is in the process of being made, the individual is not always necessarily capable of seeing how drastic the difference in said paths can be, if they could, often times looking back they say they would have done certain things differently, they would have chosen the other path. So if you had another chance, how would you define what are the things better left unsaid, how would you determine that your future past is going to be of control of your present? What would you apply into making things different, without having a knowledge of how you did it the first time round, supposing the situation indeed has happened before, such as a DeJa-Vu suggests. As much as it may sound like a paradox from a godhood perspective, would you deliver the decisions to be made by someone else, would you accept certain things the way they are without trying to change them and see where that takes you? I for one know that the aforementioned ways are ways that I wouldnt have done before so it could be it. How about you, what do you reckon?

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#83105 - 03/05/05 05:51 AM Interesting topic. [Re: Satanya]
pseudochrist Offline


Registered: 03/04/05
Posts: 22
Loc: Texas
Maybe this isn't quite what you were looking for, but you've inspired me to discuss Deja-Vu.

Some people say that Deja-Vu is a phenomenon caued by certain specific electro-chemical reactions in the brain that causes the percieved sensation that you are re-experiencing something that has happened before.

On the other hand, I have theorized that perhaps there is a series of parallel universes where we go through similar experiences, but at each point a critical choice is made, we do the opposite or something else in the present one. In this way you could live multiple lives without realizing the outcome of others, but for some reason you have an indication that you've been in that particular situation before. What all this leads to, I do not know... Maybe a reincarnation theory would suffice for possible explanation, as we are striving to perform the perfect life before becoming something greater. I beleive that this might be a Buddhist type philosophy.

How does this tie into Satanism? Simply that in my current life with what I know about life and the universe, living carnally works best for me as I proceed into the future to see what is going to happen next. No one knows for sure by my knowledge what will actually become of us when we die, we can only speculate. Therefore, I can only hope that the left hand path is a wise choice. One thing is for certain, it makes me feel powerful and it is a shitload of fun!


Hail Satan!

- the pseudochrist
_________________________
Hail Satan! - the pseudochrist

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#83106 - 03/05/05 05:39 PM Re: Your Crystal Ball [Re: Satanya]
Roen Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/03/05
Posts: 181
Loc: USA
Me, I'd not change anything about my past, for fear of mucking up my present.

I've had experiences, some good, some bad, and made decisions both good and bad. They're all valuable. They all made me what I am today.

In some ways, the bad decisions we make are more important than the good ones.

Think of this. Every time you've made a bad decision, you've likely looked back on it, and perhaps thought "wow, that was a bad decision... I'll not do that again!". You've just learned something, and in recognizing is as something undesirable, eliminate it from your future -- from all your futures.

Replacing all your "bad" decisions with good ones might not allow you to ever gain that sense of perspective -- you won't have learned from your mistakes, and your chance of committing them in the future will go up significantly.

Often, the mistakes we've made in the past have greater consequenses should we commit them in the future.

Bad experiences too (whether the result of our decisions or not), shape us similarly.

Also, (because I enjoy telling stories) let me relate a little Chinese parable I once heard regarding this:




One day, a poor farmer was in his home, avoiding the heat of the day and drinking tea, when his wife came running through the door, obviously distressed.

"What is the matter, wife?" said the farmer.

"Your best horse has just run off! What will we do? We can't possibly afford another! We are ruined!" cried his wife, wringing her skirt with her hands.

The farmer, though concerned, continued to drink his tea. "Don't fear, wife, how do we know this isn't a blessing in disguise?"

The farmer resumed his work and did not worry upon the issue further.

Sure enough, the very next day, the horse returned to the farm, bringing with him a mare. After a time, the mare had a colt, which grew to be an even more magnificent steed than his sire -- whom the farmer's son loved so much, that the farmer gave him the young steed as a gift.

One day, while the farmer's son was out riding the young steed, it caught sight of a fox, panicked, and threw the farmer's son, breaking both his legs. Another local farmer had seen the accident, and rushed to the aid of the son.

When the son was returned home, the village doctor set the bones, but declared that the boy would forever be crippled, and would need to walk with the aid of a crutch for the rest of his life.

The farmer's wife was distraught. "How could this happen to us?! Our only son, a cripple!"

The farmer, though saddened, comforted his wife. "Fear not, wife." he said, "Our son is alive! Anyway, how do we not know this is a blessing in disguise?"

A month later, as the farmer's son was hobbling about the grounds on his crutch, an official messenger bearing the governor's seal rode by on his horse.

"You there, cripple! Are there any able-bodied young men at your house? All homes in this province must deliver their able sons to the army for training. War is upon us!"

The farmer's son mentioned he, in fact, was the only son of his father. The messenger, eyeing the boy leaning heavily on his crutch, replied: "Well, no matter then. There are other households I must visit this day!" and rode off toward the next farm.

One year later, it was reported that the province's army had been annhilated by the enemy. Not a single one of the village's sons would be returning... alive.

Save the farmer's crippled son. Unable to walk properly, he had dedicated himself to the study of literature and politics. In time, he was recognized for his scholarly achievements, and was appointed governor of a large and wealthy region, where he lived out his days to great satisfaction. Bringing his parents with him, they lived in great comfort to the end of their days.




Of course, knowing the past changes a bit... but still, you only know of one past -- the one you've experienced yourself. Messing with the past is like trading your current life for one that may be much better, or may be much worse than the one you've got.

I, who am quite pleased with my present, am unwilling to take that gamble.

However, my future is always a concern, and there's much to be done about that! So I look to what I can accomplish and how I can ensure my future is at least as pleasant and rewarding as my present.

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#83107 - 03/05/05 05:44 PM Re: Interesting topic. [Re: pseudochrist]
Roen Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/03/05
Posts: 181
Loc: USA
Quote:

No one knows for sure by my knowledge what will actually become of us when we die, we can only speculate. Therefore, I can only hope that the left hand path is a wise choice.




Actually, it is known what becomes of us when we die.

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#83108 - 03/05/05 07:16 PM Re: Interesting topic. [Re: Roen]
PWG Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 02/13/04
Posts: 403
Loc: MI
Assuming, of course, that one has to die......

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#83109 - 03/05/05 07:24 PM Re: Interesting topic. [Re: pseudochrist]
PWG Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 02/13/04
Posts: 403
Loc: MI
Quote:

Therefore, I can only hope that the left hand path is a wise choice.




I find the above statement interesting for a Satanist to make. Do you mean that you have some hesitation about the direction you are going? To say something like this reminds me of someone that has not quite figured out where he wants to be.

Have you found something lacking in Satanism that is holding you back? Satanists in general don't place a lot of stock in "hope". They find something that works, and pursue it. If an approach fails, they discard it and move on. Those of us that have taken up the mantle of Satanist know without a doubt that the Left-Hand Path is the right one.

Can you elaborate, please?

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#83110 - 03/05/05 08:43 PM Re: Your Crystal Ball [Re: Satanya]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10129
Hello again. Glad to hear you're still in the world of the living, anyway.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#83111 - 03/05/05 08:57 PM Re: Interesting topic. [Re: pseudochrist]
Stephen Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/18/04
Posts: 267
Loc: Indiana
Quote:

On the other hand, I have theorized that perhaps there is a series of parallel universes where we go through similar experiences, but at each point a critical choice is made...




When most people experience Deja-Vu it is not usually during a 'critical' time in their life.

Quote:

In this way you could live multiple lives without realizing the outcome of others...




Is that really living multiple lives then if you are not 'realizing' that you are? Reality is based on experiences. If you do not experience, or realize, the 'outcome(s)' of these 'other life/lives,' how could it be Real?
_________________________
Ave Satanas!

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#83112 - 03/05/05 11:37 PM Re: Your Crystal Ball [Re: Satanya]
Focalor Offline


Registered: 12/11/04
Posts: 392
I absolutely would not change one single fucking thing in my past!

The path I've walked hasn't always been the most "kosher" one. But I've learned valuable lessons that have made the beautiful things in life look a whole lot more beautiful. I've learned a lot about how people work. I've learned which people to stay away from and which people to trust. I've almost lost my life once or twice doing stupid things. It's what has shaped my entire world view.

Any past women I've ever been involved with, I don't sweat it. It's over and done, move on. I don't like to be unhappy, so I find feeling sorry for myself to be a great bore. They all tried so damn hard to change me, I like me, so I don't wanna change. Screw them.

I can see what's in my future is looking good...

... as long as no one finds the body.
_________________________
~Focalor
SHEMHAMFORASH!

http://focalor.tastyspleen.net

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#83113 - 03/06/05 03:07 AM Re: Your Crystal Ball [Re: Roen]
Satanya Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/05/04
Posts: 2241
I heard that story before... I dont see why they have to throw in their necessity for fantasy in everything in their lives... "the moral of the story" is that bad comes for good at times, now to call it a blessing is a whole different animal. There does not need to be a "God" for one to be grateful for the downs of life as well as the ups. I for one am grateful for my capability to see that based on my efforts. Contrarily to what I may have given the impression of in the initial post, would you chose to have no regrets is not the question. Im speaking simply of the manipulation of intuition.

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#83114 - 03/06/05 04:28 AM Misconstrued, over-analysis of a simple tale. [Re: Satanya]
Roen Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/03/05
Posts: 181
Loc: USA
Egads.


As it is a traditional Chinese folk-story, the word "blessing" isn't used in the Christian sense of some divinely bestowed favor... You could just as easily substitute the term "good fortune" or "luck" and lose no meaning at all.


It would, in fact, be ridiculous to assume that some supernatural entity has somehow taken an overriding interest in a poor farming family at the expense of all other families in the region -- especially because the story neither includes or even hints at this. If that were the point, there'd be a long, pharisaic preamble about how all the other villagers were somehow sinning and evil, but this particular family was upright and pious, and therefore invoked the divine "blessing" of whatever local god is charged with such responsibilities... Bleah. That would completely deprive the story of its point.


The moral, as you yourself pointed out, is simply that you can never really know when something you perceive as bad luck or misfortune may end up being better than the alternative, so don't sweat it. Dwelling on ones misfortunes is usually counter-productive, unless you actively use the knowledge or opportunity gained to change your present or future (as did the crippled boy in the story, to great effect!).


I retold the story in (mainly, you know how these verbal tales go...) the English words it was told to me, to maintain its fairy-tale, archaic flavor.


That's all there is to it. Any other imagined significance is unwarranted presumption.


Nothing in my post mentioned regrets, either. I'm wondering where you got that...? I was speaking precisely of the general inability of one to directly measure the effects of past decisions on their present, and pointing out reasons why you might not want to, anyway -- even in hindsight.

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#83115 - 03/06/05 05:07 AM Re: Misconstrued, over-analysis of a simple tale. [Re: Roen]
Satanya Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/05/04
Posts: 2241
Quote:

As it is a traditional Chinese folk-story, the word "blessing" isn't used in the Christian sense of some divinely bestowed favor... You could just as easily substitute the term "good fortune" or "luck" and lose no meaning at all.




Im not familiar with Chinese folk but there is a problem with the externalization of power and the connotation of terms these religions use of. I, being a Satanist, a practitioner of Magic, Lesser and Greater, have a problem with calling it 'luck' as well. We would have to be on the same page to discuss this further.

Quote:

Nothing in my post mentioned regrets, either. I'm wondering where you got that...?




The reply to your post was used to clarify a point it seemed that wasnt clear to others, I wasnt going to make a separate reply just to say that. It didnt appear necessary.

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#83116 - 04/23/05 03:29 PM Re: Your Crystal Ball [Re: Satanya]
Adepta_Serenity Offline


Registered: 04/20/05
Posts: 53
Loc: Germany
I wouldn't change any decision i made. Of course I can say now that I started my life as a woman and witch much longer ago. But all those decision I made are part of existence. I don't know what the future is offering and I don't care for that at all. I'm livin right in this moment. I don't drop a single tear for my past and I don't worry for my future.
_________________________
It is easy to fall but it is hard to accept it.

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#83117 - 04/23/05 08:37 PM Re: Your Crystal Ball [Re: Satanya]
fearless09 Offline


Registered: 04/18/05
Posts: 45
Loc: Nebraska
I love me! It has taken all of my experiences, the good and the bad, to help me see just who I am. What I am made of so to speak. During painful times, one seems to dig down to find strengths that perhaps would not be found otherwise. So, no, I would not change any of my decisions.

Just a side note, I liked your thought provoking post.

Hail Satan!

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#83118 - 04/24/05 12:00 AM Re: Your Crystal Ball [Re: Adepta_Serenity]
CWH Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/23/05
Posts: 3746
I agree with this statement. If you are happy with who are today.....then all of the choices you made from the beginning to the present, are the experiences that made you who you are.

I can see if a person was unhappy with him/her self, then that person might want to go back and make some changes.

I even like this idea, going back in time being able to keep all the knowledge you have gained. To see if you would actually make those same choices over agian.

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#83119 - 04/24/05 12:20 AM Re: Your Crystal Ball [Re: CWH]
IronCrafter Offline


Registered: 04/10/05
Posts: 733
Loc: A Harsh Reality ,Wa USA
The problem with hindsight is that it's always 20/20.

We live in a continuum.

Past<............Now..........>future.

It's a bit like a bead sliding down a wire,leaving traces of it's vibrations behind it. It slides only in one direction-so it's pretty useless rehashing the past, except as a refference.

I look at the past only as a record, and to detect *patterns*. This means I better control the next instant others call "destiny". There IS no other entity responsible for how I move on that wire,or how I cross those of others.

There is ONLY the next instant,always. Until instants for us cease. Destiny is what YOU do in that instant,and all of them to come.
_________________________
"Life is an objective-achieve it." "Be who you are and say what you feel,because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr Suess My home page featuring my work can be found here. HS! Crafter

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#83120 - 04/24/05 06:09 AM Re: Your Crystal Ball [Re: IronCrafter]
Adepta_Serenity Offline


Registered: 04/20/05
Posts: 53
Loc: Germany
Even if you can go back in time you can't change a thing. What happens in the past is unchangeable.
It's like the question what happens if u kill your own grandfather.
Okay that question was cleared by Futurama.
I couldn't resist but Fry is his own grandfather.
_________________________
It is easy to fall but it is hard to accept it.

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#83121 - 04/24/05 09:22 AM Re: Your Crystal Ball [Re: fearless09]
Satanya Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/05/04
Posts: 2241
Thank you Fearless and welcome to the forums by the way.

I agree, the good and the bad moments will always make for what one is independent of space in time (?). Adversities is what makes one stronger, though good is the enemy of the better. These may sound like just fancy slogans, but they arent that only necessarily. It all depends on how the individual would approach them and/or apply them.

When I wrote that post, not too long ago, but there is a fairly significant space in time (?) between then and now, I had less experience in manipulating these forces, so to speak, than I do today. You could say that Im looking for a pragmatical form of putting some experiences on hold so one can go and shape them to their respective desires at Will, independent of space in time(?). I know, this may sound a little confusing... probably because the way Im putting it, it is. I think I should go research some several matters before I make further posts on this regard. Im not just speaking of full-awareness, or maybe thats what it would be but unless I know it from experience it would be assuming, something I do not feel comfortable with doing, but I think that whether I like it or not, without specific study and practical experience that is what the mind would tend to do? Not implying that theyd all work the same way...but.

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#83122 - 04/24/05 09:56 AM Re: Your Crystal Ball [Re: Adepta_Serenity]
Satanya Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/05/04
Posts: 2241
Fictional, but an interesting film on the subject --> Butterfly Effect .

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#83123 - 04/24/05 10:05 AM Re: Your Crystal Ball [Re: IronCrafter]
Satanya Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/05/04
Posts: 2241
Quote:

The problem with hindsight is that it's always 20/20.

We live in a continuum.

Past<............Now..........>future.





That reminded me of a Massive Attack song:


"I-ya,
I against I,
Flesh of my flesh,
And mind of my mind,
Two of a kind but one won't survive,
My images reflect in the enemies eye,
And his images reflect in in mine the same time,

I-ya, I-ya,
I against I,
Flesh of my flesh,
And mind of my mind,
Two of a kind but one won't survive,

Right here is where the end gon' start at,
Conflict, Contact, Combat,
Fighters stand where the land is marked at,
Settle the dispute about who the livest,
3 word answer,
Whoever survive this,
Only one of us can ride forever,
So you and I cant ride together,
Can't live or cant die together,
All we can do is collide together,
So I skillfully apply the pressure,
Won't stop until I'm forever... One!

A doorstep where death never come,
Spread across time til my time never done,
And I'm never done,
Walk tall, why ever run?
When they move if I ever come?
Bad man never fret the war, tell'em come
General we have the stock, the mad fire burn

I-ya,
I against I,
Flesh of my flesh,
And mind of my mind,
Two of a kind but one won't survive,
My images reflect in the enemies eye,
And his images is reflect'in mine the same time,

I-ya, I-ya,
I against I,
Flesh of my flesh,
And mind of my mind,
Two of a kind but one won't survive,

Reign supreme in your U-N-I,
V-E-R-S-E with the sharpness,
Narrow row building no space for partners,
No space for drivers, no space for walkers,
No space regardless,
Your on my path then get off it,
Hardheaded and unresponsive,
Get they lives put on target with harshness,
Come with the canons sparkin' they darken,
Who am iI One man squadron,
Ma stir the fire this time that'd snatch your tomorrow,
The thousand yard stare that'll pierce through your armor,
You can get it on right now if you want to,
But when ya front lines get marched through,
I warned you,
You know who forever belong to,

I-ya, I-ya
I against I,
Flesh of my flesh,
And mind of my mind,
Two of a kind but one won't survive,
My images reflect in the enemies eye,
And his images reflect in mine the same time,

I-ya, I-ya,
I against I,
Flesh of my flesh,
And mind of my mind,
Two of a kind but one won't survive,
My images reflect in the enemies eye,
And his images reflect in mine, survive "


On a different note,Thanks to a post Reverend Svengali started Downstairs I think I may be closer to clarifying my bits-of-confusion.

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