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#85220 - 03/14/05 09:01 AM You Say Satanas, I Say Satana
fiftythirdspirit Offline


Registered: 12/25/04
Posts: 362
Just in case anyone is interested in linguistics, I have read that:

The proper noun "Satan" in Latin is "Satana."

"Hail Satan" is "Ave Satana," not "Satanas."

"Satanas" is the Greek form of the name.

When one says "Ave Satanas," they are actually mixing together two languages -- the Latin "Ave" with the Greek "Satanas."
Ave Satana!

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#85221 - 03/14/05 09:18 AM Re: You Say Satanas, I Say Satana [Re: fiftythirdspirit]
Erzsebet Offline


Registered: 03/14/05
Posts: 76
Loc: East Massachusetts
Is this a common error?

~Erzsebet


Edited by Erzsebet (03/14/05 09:19 AM)

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#85222 - 03/14/05 09:39 AM Re: You Say Satanas, I Say Satana [Re: Erzsebet]
fiftythirdspirit Offline


Registered: 12/25/04
Posts: 362
I see the salute "Ave Satanas" quite a bit. Seldom see "Ave Satana." But, really, how many people still study Latin (outside of the medical field--of which I was a member for about 20 years). I read about the Satanas/Satana wording a while back, something that was written by a retired teacher who was familiar with this particular salute.

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#85223 - 03/14/05 09:46 AM Re: You Say Satanas, I Say Satana [Re: fiftythirdspirit]
Erzsebet Offline


Registered: 03/14/05
Posts: 76
Loc: East Massachusetts
I have not been on this forum long enough to see either/or but the correction is duly noted. Kind to post.

It is too bad about Latin though, being dropped from modern curriculum. Sad that French is taught in it's stead. Personally I think there is more use to Latin than French. Just basic knowledge of the language alone could teach quite a bit.

Erzsebet

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#85224 - 03/14/05 09:53 AM Re: You Say Satanas, I Say Satana [Re: Erzsebet]
fiftythirdspirit Offline


Registered: 12/25/04
Posts: 362
I love to hear Latin spoken and I also particularly enjoy accents such as British, French, and Scottish. Just something romantic to me about them.

The problem I have with much occult literature is that many incantations, rituals, chants are written down in Latin or arcane language and one is supposed to know instinctively how to pronounce the words as well as repeat them? Not me. I don't "chant" anything unless I know exactly what I am saying! Just my luck I'd wake up the next morning with the head of an ass or something.

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#85225 - 03/14/05 10:00 AM Re: You Say Satanas, I Say Satana [Re: fiftythirdspirit]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10119
Actually, this has already been suggested and dealt with several times over the years. The thread which seemed to me the most informative:

Magister Koerbagh's Response

Not only the initial response, but his later discussion of Latin and Greek with Priestess Helena, and most of that thread, should prove elucidating.
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"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#85226 - 03/14/05 10:06 AM Re: You Say Satanas, I Say Satana [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
fiftythirdspirit Offline


Registered: 12/25/04
Posts: 362
Thank you, LeviathanXIII. I appreciate it. I pulled up the thread and it is a long one. I will pour myself another cup of coffee and get to reading it.

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#85227 - 03/14/05 10:30 AM Re: You Say Satanas, I Say Satana [Re: fiftythirdspirit]
Magister Frost Offline

CoS Magister

Registered: 06/12/01
Posts: 4626
Loc: Dallas, Texas
But as Doktor LaVey has stated, exact pronunciation is not required, the emotional energy produced during the ritual is what counts. The ones invoked will know what you mean when you say it, regardless of how you pronounce it.

Everyone is always concerned with the "proper speech" details, when it is the whole package that counts. If you spend too much time on one little detail, the entire show will suffer.
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Magister Frost


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#85228 - 03/14/05 11:15 AM Re: You Say Satanas, I Say Satana [Re: Magister Frost]
Assabrah Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 2062
what is interesting to do for exemple too, something I always do, is to give a sound to each thing I love, something I want to have etc. I've tried to write these sounds, but I've noticed that sometimes the root of the words stay the same and that the rest change according to the emotion. Now I use this for songs too.
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#85229 - 03/14/05 08:43 PM What? Again? [Re: fiftythirdspirit]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12502
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
If we are going to be historically precise let's speak Latin the way the Roman soldiers did and since they commonly had their front teeth extracted that should be interesting! (The idea was to not have the shock of a frontal face strike breaking your front teeth stop you from fighting. The only rebellion by Roman soldiers of consequence was when they were not supplied with grain they could cook to eat - "Roman meal").

So shall we shout "Ahbheh Shay-than-ush!?

I think not.

"Latin is a dead language,
It's plain enough to see,
It killed off all the Romans,
And now it's killing me!"

"Death to the mortals! -Army of Darkness

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#85231 - 03/15/05 08:04 AM Re: You Say Satanas, I Say Satana [Re: ]
Satanya Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/05/04
Posts: 2241
Quote:

Personally, I just find "Ave Satanas" more pleasing.

Perhaps that was the point?




Yes, perhaps Latin is mixed with another language purposedly, in this case. Perhaps also in every other case as well? I wonder what the Sumerians would have to say about such manipulation of their language...

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#85232 - 03/15/05 08:07 AM Re: You Say Satanas, I Say Satana [Re: Satanya]
Wile_E_Quixote Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 03/14/02
Posts: 2493
I say Ave Satanya.

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#85233 - 03/15/05 09:00 AM Re: You Say Satanas, I Say Satana [Re: ]
Magister Frost Offline

CoS Magister

Registered: 06/12/01
Posts: 4626
Loc: Dallas, Texas
If you read the thread that Leviathan pointed out, you will notice that it is used properly.

Doktor LaVey used the phrase for a purpose, regardless as to whether it was phrased correctly or not (even though it is phrased correctly) ... the words really are just the fuel that leads to the fire. They envoke certain feelings within, its those feelings that count. Words are just words, they hold no magical abilities ... except what we get out of using them. If the words are forbidden, if the words are from a dead language, they seem to make us feel as if they are more powerful words, but it is that feeling that is more powerful, not the words. Now don't get me wrong, you should research things and try and get the names and words spoken correctly, as that will actaully make the words seem that much more powerful. I would hate for everyone to get lazy and just start spewing out mis-spoken crap just because they did not take the time to do a little research into the words they are speaking. I have found that it is difficult to find the proper way to pronounce some words so as I stated before, speak your devil's names as you feel it should be spoken, they will answer regardless.

Ah, but now I am digging too deeply into Greater Magic for this public area. This should be discussed downstairs instead.
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From Hell,

Magister Frost


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#85234 - 03/15/05 09:03 AM Re: What? Again? [Re: Nemo]
fiftythirdspirit Offline


Registered: 12/25/04
Posts: 362
Quote:

So shall we shout "Ahbheh Shay-than-ush!? I think not!




Thank you, Magister Nemo, for the little bit of Roman history. --and I laugh every time I read your parting words.

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#85235 - 03/15/05 09:11 AM Re: You Say Satanas, I Say Satana [Re: Magister Frost]
fiftythirdspirit Offline


Registered: 12/25/04
Posts: 362
Thank you, Magister Ventrue, for your comments on this subject. Many times, when I have been asked by budding authors what should be included in books they are writing about magic-- my response is "a pronunciation guide" --for the exact reasons you state in your post.

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#85236 - 03/15/05 09:45 AM Re: You Say Satanas, I Say Satana *DELETED* [Re: Magister Frost]
raven Offline


Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 128
Loc: Connecticut
Post deleted by raven

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#85237 - 03/15/05 09:54 AM Re: You Say Satanas, I Say Satana [Re: raven]
fiftythirdspirit Offline


Registered: 12/25/04
Posts: 362
Quote:

I ask this with all due courtesy, politeness etc. knowing I'll get banned but..WHAT is a Downstairs and is a black skirt and a .45 required? here is a chili pepper for YOU.




...and others thought me harsh in referring to you in the introductions as "another pretty, clueless, nitwit"?

I think not!

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#85238 - 03/15/05 10:03 AM Re: You Say Satanas, I Say Satana *DELETED* [Re: raven]
Magister Frost Offline

CoS Magister

Registered: 06/12/01
Posts: 4626
Loc: Dallas, Texas
Downstairs is what I call the CoS Members Only section of my board. There are posts that describe what is requires to enter downstairs.
_________________________
=======================================

From Hell,

Magister Frost


---------------------------------------
We're all around you, are you one of Us?
---------------------------------------
- The Church of Satan Emporium
- Satannet.com
- churchofsatan.com

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#85239 - 03/15/05 10:32 AM Re: You Say Satanas, I Say Satana [Re: fiftythirdspirit]
dragondancer Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 12/22/04
Posts: 1546
Loc: Virginia
Not including you in this, fiftythirdspirit, but I think it is kind of pointless to debate the correct Latin, Greek, Spanish or any other language, when there are a lot of people on this board that don't even know how to use or spell English! I am amazed at the number of posters who are supposed to be college students and they can't even use an English dictionary.


Ave Satanas!
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"It does take an exceptional mind and a still more exceptional integrity to remain untouched by the brain-destroying influences of the world's doctrines, the accumulated evil of the centuries-to remain human, since the human is the rational." Dr. Akston in Atlas Shrugged

"Not life, but good life, is to be chiefly valued." Socrates

Dragondancer
Temple of Vampire


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#85240 - 03/15/05 10:36 AM Re: You Say Satanas, I Say Satana [Re: dragondancer]
Ephraim Offline


Registered: 03/14/05
Posts: 58
Loc: Belmont NH. USA
I think that debating the origin of many of these words, although it may proove to be enlightening in the end, does very little to help the emotions that are involked when we say them.
Do not yell Hail Satan! thinking that it is not gramaticaly correct, yell Hail Satan! will the thought that you are giving praise to yourself in a very powerful way.


Edited by Ephraim (03/15/05 10:36 AM)
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I DO NOT FEAR GOD, I FEAR WHAT THE LIE OF GOD WILL DRIVE MAN TO DO... Ephraim Baker Welcome to Oblivion, Amen...

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#85241 - 03/15/05 10:41 AM Re: The Power of King James [Re: Magister Frost]
Caesar Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/01/03
Posts: 2381
Very well said, Magister. I have come to the conclusion that for most people it is natural for them to needlessly complicate what is simple.

As for a good example of evocative language, I usually show a comparison of the King James version of the christian bible and a modern translation. People are much more easily swayed and moved by a, "Thus saith the Lord", than, "The Lord says". There are some christians so adamant about the King James version that they actually consider all others "of the devil", because subconsciously they realize it loses its power when made "contemporary".

If you ever attend a Pentecostal or Charismatic church, you'll be amused when one of their "prophets", speaking for God in the first person to the congregation, uses King James version words ("My children, how I loveth thee...")
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#85242 - 03/15/05 11:09 AM Re: You Say Satanas, I Say Satana [Re: dragondancer]
fiftythirdspirit Offline


Registered: 12/25/04
Posts: 362
I agree with you, dragondancer. --and how many of those have claimed to be English Majors! Yikes!!!

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#85243 - 03/15/05 02:17 PM Re: The Power of King James [Re: Caesar]
Professor_Sinister Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 06/30/01
Posts: 752
Loc: Peterborough, Ontario, Canada
Quote:

There are some christians so adamant about the King James version that they actually consider all others "of the devil", because subconsciously they realize it loses its power when made "contemporary".




Yup.

... and those same people have no clue who William Tyndale is, why he is one of the most quoted and influential men in the history of the English language, or why his version of the bible was considered "blasphemous" by the powers that were.
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#85244 - 03/23/05 06:21 PM Re: You Say Satanas, I Say Satana [Re: fiftythirdspirit]
Dipso_mania_c Offline


Registered: 03/23/05
Posts: 1
All sounds good!
Speaking of latin...Dinzani a me non four cose createl Se non etterne, I Io etterna duro./Lasciate ogni speranza, Voi ch'entrate...

Before me nothing was created but eternal things, & I endure eternally. Abandon every hope, Ye that enter...

Entrate Entrate Entrate...Satana!
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Long wont notice yet conceal & soothe by torture what words cannot heal... Subtilizing mind that loves to behold a lifeless thing, with most believing superstitious wish...

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#85245 - 03/23/05 08:36 PM Re: You Say Satanas, I Say Satana [Re: fiftythirdspirit]
Liar Offline


Registered: 03/22/05
Posts: 45
Loc: Los Angeles, California
That's funny, Szandora informed me of this same fact when I met her. She briefly studied Latin.

Ave Satana!

HAIL SATAN

SZorilla

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